First 4 voters on Mau. Notice bhlloy being the second vote. I think there is no way the wolves vote #2 and #3 on mau and would lean strongly towards believing bh and the GoldenEagle scan. I also would add some trust to packerFanatic and Mckerney

bhllloy is not Mau's teammate, I am. His votes adds trust for the reasons I just stated

Autumn votes JAG
PF votes mauboy
lathum votes chief
mauboy votes chief (2)
danny votes jag (2)
jag votes autumn
bhlloy votes mauboy (2)
martin d votes mauboy (3)
chief rum votes mauboy (4)
mckerney votes mauboy (5)
chief unvotes mauboy (4)
danny unvotes jag
danny votes ntndeacon
jackal votes ntndeacon (2)
hoopsguy votes ntndeacon (3)
zinto votes chief rum (3)
ntndeacon votes chief (4)
pass votes ntn (4)
chief votes ntn (5)
CrimsonFox votes mauboy (5)
ntn unvotes chief (3)
ntn votes mauboy (6)
darth votes mauboy (7)
cougar votes mauboy (8)
mauboy unvotes chief (2)
mauboy votes ntn (6)
golden eagle votes ntn (7)
saldana votes ntn (8)
lathum unvotes chief (1)
lathum votes ntn (8)
chief unvotes ntn (7)
chief votes mauboy (9)
autumn unvotes jag (0)
autumn votes mauboy (10)
ntn unvotes mau (9)
ntn votes jag (1)
danny unvote ntn (6)
danny votes CF
mau unvotes ntn (5)
mau votes crimson
chief unvotes mau
chief votes jag
autumn unvotes mauboy1
autumn votes JAG

Sorry, again I know this may not be complete, but I wanted to throw in the info we had here and look at these streaks. I think the late voting is less useful after Saldana's reveal.

I've put Lathum and Saldana in a light green to show they're presumed villagers.

I think Mau's second vote also adds some trust to CR. Right now there was one wolf on CR, one on Mau. Looking at the 4 other voters on the other three candidates seems a good place to potentially find at least one wolf. Unfortunately that includes me. Also includes Autumn, JAG, and Hoopsguy.

Oh right. My pre-coffee bad. I'll go get some.

And thats not the final tally. Looking at the final tally will probably be a better place to look. It should be noted that Ntn and Mau tried not to vote eachother on day 1.

What makes you think all the wolves would have voted that early?

So here's an interesting stretch. My vote at the end is about when Mauboy revealed, just before that. The beginning of this stretch is the point at which it was 4-4-4 Chief-Mauboy-NTN.

I haven't actually looked at it yet, but think it should be interesting to see what people did there.

At 4-4-4, Chief chooses NTN over Mauboy. CF chooses Mauboy over Chief. NTN jumps on the Mauboy wagon, Darth and Cougar follow, choosing to put Mauboy further ahead rather than vote NTN. At that point it's Mauboy 8 - NTN 5 - Chief 3

Mauboy switches to NTN and starts a run there. GE, Saldana and Lathum makes it NTN - 9 -Mauboy 8.

Chief makes a decisive move there moving from NTN to Mauboy. This is the move that makes me question him, Danny, despite an earlier vote on Mauboy. I'm not sure if Mauboy revealed before or after that vote, I know he revealed before mine.

God, this coffee has not helped yet. Obviously Chief switched TO Mauboy, so that is not the questionable vote. I'll just let other people look at it. :-(

Cougar has a very good looking vote in that stretch, putting Mauboy up by 3 instead of closing the gap by voting NTN.

I said looking at a final result would better, but didn't see one already tabulated and didn't have time to do one myself. This is my last post before leaving, hopefully others who are around can go through day 1 in more detail to come up with a couple good candidates.

Here's another stretch to look at. McKerney puts Mauboy at 5 making him the only real contender at that moment. Let's see who gets put in as candidates after that and by whom.

As I said, Chief unvotes, which makes me wonder. Danny switches to NTN (what was the reasoning there, Danny?). Jackal, Hoops and then Pass all jump onto a brand new NTN wagon. Zinto adds Chief into the mix, and NTN jumps on that rather than on Mauboy.

I think its safe to conclude that there is a wolf somewhere in that voting pattern. I think the three logical candidates for today are hoops, pass, and ntn.

Of those three, who would give us the most info? If ntn turns out to be a wolf, it clears pass. Otherwise, pass looks mighty suspicious since he was attempting to swing the vote off of mau.

I am leaning toward voting for ntn today.

I'm not sure I can fully get behind this. To some degree, I wonder if this whole thing with Mau was a designed play by the wolves to try and draw out the seer. Seen in that light, the wolves would have a doubly vested interest in voting Mau early: 1. Make sure he is a candidate so he can make the play he did. 2. Look good when it eventually comes out that Mau is a wolf.

I will say that I can't see bhlloy as cunning making that play though, so that makes me feel a lot better about him and good about GE barring him being the cunning (low odds, but just not fully discounting things at this point.

Personally, I think you all should vote autumn for this heretical comment alone.

Haha. I could just see CW writing a script that informs him anytime the word coffee is posted in a thread.

I'm assuming he did ;-)

I agree with this, and thought about pointing it out to you in your earlier post, but since you seemed to discredit that theory, I didn't bother. But personally, my thinking is that if bhlloy is the cunning, they wouldn't have killed the seer.

FWIW, CW, the coffee has now activated my brain.

Looking at the voting from day 1, I think ntn is our best bet today.

VOTE NTNDEACON

Seriously... his coffee senses were tingling...

All you need to do is tell us who another wolf is and we will make it really easy for you!

Man, Pair of Amazing Nuts have really fallen behind...time to pick up the pace and take over this game!

The thing I am noticing as I go back and read day one is that Mau really did not want to vote Chief the first day. He also later pretended to scan Chief. While I am not all the way done reading I am just pointing out this is something to look at.

Also after seeing how well Chief did in the last game he could have been trying to cast doubt on him so that if/when Mau got found to be a wolf he could maybe bring Chief down with him.

Yeah, Zinto, I'm not sure what to think on that whole thing. It seemed that Mauboy expected his fake to work better than it did, so I don't know if he "scanned" Chief hoping to hide a wolf, or hoping to trick us once he was lynched.

The only other thing that really really caught my attention was that even though Mau claimed a role I am not sure why NTN removed his vote off of Mau to Jag. Jag did not have any other votes on him at that point and it does not make a lot of sense to get out of the self preservation mode.

Work has involved lots of customer face time today, which is keeping me away from doing the vote diving I wanted to get to earlier. May still have time later in the day, but it likely won't be before 6PM EST.

Which sucks, because I'm pretty sure there is good info to be found in there. I'm inclined to agree with the point Autumn made about voters 1/2/4 on Mauboy being good ... no reason to push him into the "runoff" that early in the process, and I'm puzzled by MartinD doing so with his vote.

I have to assume they just felt like it would pay off down the road to lay down some early wolf on wolf votes. And it does pay off in the sense that it makes it harder to analyze any of these votes, knowing they may have been voting each ohter on purpose early.

I believe we've had two vanilla wolves, right? So chances are we're left with the cunning and the brutal, if we have only four. I know Saldana came down hard on there being only four wolves, but five seems in the realm of possibility, I'm not sure. Maybe not if there is a brutal and cunning in game.

That was me, not autumn :p.

Also on autumns questions, I switched to ntn because I decided I'd rather vote someone who is quieter over someone who has been very active in jag on day 1 with little to go on.

Btw, pass is playing pretty mellow this game and he tends to be a bit more out there as a wolf. He also from what I remember looked to help save mau. For right now I'm going to put my vote there

Vote pass

I can't bold from phone right now but hopefully this will count for now, I can always fix it later.

vote pass

Got it to work I think

Danny, can you clarify that for me? It sounds like you're arguing that I'm probably a villager (since I'm mellow this game, and tend to be more out there as a wolf), then voting for me.

vote pass

Got it to work I think

I think you are more out there as a villager actually. Plus your vote of ntn and avoidance of mau makes the two of you a solid run off pair. My votes not stuck though

Really? I think anyone who has seen me play as a wolf would say that you were right the first time. I'm not sure I like the idea of NTN and I as a pair since GE has already tried to say that I look bad if NTN is good, so this is seeming like too much of a setup based on a D1 vote. If you want to run me off with someone else though, that's fine.

Okay, reading back through day. Let's keep in mind that the three votes on Mauboy that followed bhlloy's all happened within 3 minutes. It's very possible none of thsoe three, wolf or not, realized that any of the others were posting. Thus Mauboy went from 2 votes to 5 in the space of three minutes. Martin was one of those votes, Chief and McKerney the others. That makes those other two not quite as golden as they might have been otherwise, since it may have just been a lack of wolf communication. Chief unvoted once he realized what had happened, which may have just been a wise villager move, or a wolf backing off from what had seemed a safe wolf on wolf vote.

I agree with Danny, in that I've been looking at you wondering why Pass is playing so quiet.

Yeah, I do tend to be quiet when I can tell the vote is going to be boring. The only interesting vote was Day 1, and I was out then. Granted, that day was so weird that I don't know if I would have stuck my nose in there even if I was around, and I'm still not really able to make much out of it.

I wonder what this was all about. It seemed random..

So if I'm going to whine about getting votes, and about being paired off with ntn, I might as well throw out a name. This guy voted for mau twice, and unvoted him twice. That gives me a hunch that he was trying to make it look like there were runs to save ntn, and get more people to vote his way.

Since I just my suspicion of GE trying to set me up, I'll quote it here. Looking at his post, I see that his voting pattern looks exactly the same as mine -- a vote for NTN without swtiching it off. This pretty much ties him with CR in my book, and if anyone votes for GE before anyone follows me on CR, I'll switch.

I just read through most of day 1's history. FWIW, Pass's vote didn't strike me as necessarily suspicious. It seemed like one most villagers would make at that point possibly. It's proving hard to decipher things with all these runs of simultaneous votes though.

Vote Golden Eagle

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt until I am home and can look at things better
unvote pass

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt until I am home and can look at things better
unvote pass

Please don't vote GE, much better candidates due to him likely being scanned good.

I don't think that's a good percentage play, you're basically banking on GE being the cunning or even more unlikely possibilities.

Thanks, I'd forgotten about that. Do we know if there is a cunning wolf in this game?

Looks like there definitely can be. Sorry for lying mckerney, but I am going to hang on to my CR vote for a while and see how that goes.

FYI, this is why I hate the cunning wolf role. It totally devalues the seer. It really doesn't help to know that he's not Wolf X or Wolf Y, oh but he still could be Wolf Z.

There is, but no reason to make that vote at this point.

Today is super busy for me and I don't have much to go on. Going to try and check out things a bit later but may not be able to.

I also think I am likely dead tonight with the seer now being gone.

I have to keep asking myself why kill DV?

Did he give something away in his posts? Is his partner lying about something?

DV is a good player, but I find it hard to think it was a coincidence they got the seer so easily.

VOTE Bholly

Could be, Lathum. But in looking back through Darth's votes I thought he did drop a few hints that might have put the wolves on his trail.

That said, even if Bhlloy is a villager, finding out for sure does clear things up for us, so it's not a bad vote.

I can't figure out where to go, I haven't found anything to rest my vote on, and I have to go very soon. grrr.

In the same category of people casting votes Day 1, once Mauboy looked to be the lead vote getter, for other targets we have Hoopsguy, Danny, Zinto, NTN, Pass, Chief. This is one spot in the day's votes where I would expect to see a wolf try to push another canddiate. Some of these guys have moves elsewhere that makes them look a bit better (Danny, NTN, Chief). So I think I may choose from Hoops, Zinto or Pass.

I'm back around. Somebody already said but Mauboy isn't my teammate. My vote for him on Day 1 was purely because of his bizarre couple of posts and I didn't take it off because I wasn't around after the MartinD reveal.

I'll probably head to bed in a bit because I'm jetlagged as hell, I don't really know who to vote for either. I'd still like to hear a better explanation from Danny why he voted with Mauboy for CF (who ended up the first NK the next evening) on day 1 other than "he was just someone who was in the thread at the time". That doesn't really fly for me. But I don't think he's a wolf either, it's just something that seems strange.

Yes, I also don't understand your switch off of NTN after Mauboy's reveal, Danny.

I'm going to vote Zinto. Mostly because he's on that list, and is quiet enough and new enough that he could continue slipping under the radar. Better to put a fire under him now. I'll be out for a while unfortunately, hopefully back before deadline.

VOTE ZINTO

Hmm, maybe you should take a closer look at what was happening there.

I voted mau because of his following up with a second vote so quick (I forget who he voted, probably ntn). If you recall, he claimed he was preparing his vote post and then got interrupted at work and couldn't post his vote fro 45 minutes. By the time he did, it was right after someone else had voted the same guy. So it looked like a quick follow vote. It was Day One after all, not much is needed to put a guy on the block.

In any case, I started a vote post of my own. There was maybe one vote on mau at the time. By the time I finished my post, there was another mau vote, and then someone followed me with a mau vote. That was in a very quick stretch. I decided I didn't like that, and that's why I unvoted mau.

I later voted for ntn in a self-defense move; it was me, mau and ntn on the block at the time, and I was still skittish about voting mau, given the way that run had developed. ntn also had his vote on me. He and I agreed to take our votes off of one another because we both felt there were better candidates. At this point I went back to mauboy1, still in self-defense mode.

I stayed on mauboy1 until he did the seer hint-reveal. That was getting closer to when I was leaving for the day, and I wasn't going to leave my vote on the potential seer. So I unvoted mau and went to JAG, one of the few others with a vote, avoiding ntn because I had already told him I wouldn't vote for him that day. At the time it was looking like an ntn-mau head to head, and people were starting to jump off of mau with his "reveal".

I left for the day at that point (or at least until past deadline), and so I wasn't around for the MartinD stuff.

It was a Day One vote, and crazier than normal, with all the weird runs. I was prepared to lynch mau on Day One and would have if he didn't do the fake reveal.

I'm going with Seer searching as a reason. Back on Day 2 when everyone was jumping on the "kill jackal" bandwagon and some were even saying "Oh wow Mau is the seer, we should not vote him then", DV and I both expressed our doubts aloud, the post Autumn posted from me included.

HEre are the posts specifically from DV.
Post 306 Day 1


then 310
322

And after I posted my doubts about mau as seer at #456,
DV chimed in at 469



At first I thought it was just revenge or to keep me quiet, but now I think there might have been some suspicion from the wolves that one of us two was the seer since we were both saying Mau sounds like a fake. I think it's in our best interest to AT LEAST FOR TODAY assume the bholly/GE scans are legitimate. It's the only thing we have to go on today other than saldana's innocence by day 1 wolf kill.

Oh snap...a day kill for the wolves?

Well, I guess at the start of the game I would have taken 2 wolves for the seer + bodyguard, but still tough to lose both of those roles this early in the game.

I don't see any wolf roles that should have been able to do this ... hidden role, some kind of reward for a race, anyone have thoughts on this?

I guess what was going through my mind was trying to save my teammate and the potential seer and it not looking like ntn was going to get enough support. I stand by my decision to try and save mau, but my reasoning for picking crimsonfox was weak so I agree with you guys there.

A day kill for the wolves?

I think this rules out bholly for a vote. The wolves are trying to frame Lathum. I think we should make sure Lathum's team stays in the race as he can provide us with a trusted opinion.

At this stage of the game, having 5 votes on 5 different people is certainly not helping things, so if ntn doesn't get more of a push, I will gladly move my vote (probably to bhlloy at this point, based on what Lathum said earlier)

I haven't played in as many games as others, but I don't recall ever seeing something like this.

I can not disagree with you on any of the points you are making Autumn because I am new and quiet but I do believe there has to be someone better to lynch than me. However I am willing to bite the bullet today if the group comes to the consensus that we will learn the most by lynching me.

Frame Lathum for what, GE?

I agree that we should lay off bhlloy today because it seems like this is a move to draw interest on to him.

Well that sucks. I don't remember reading any role info that could do that.

WTF! a 1:10 PM kill? WTF!

I can confirm (and mckerney can back me up on this) that we didn't get any special message / reward for being in first at the end of the D2 segment. I presume the same was true for you and CR? (and Lathum/Jackal can chime in for D1). So I don't think it's race-related unless it's wolf-only and that would seem unbalancing. That doesn't leave me with much since I don't remember reading about hidden roles or abilities this game.

Just throwing it out there... if this was a reward for winning a race then that's a pretty short list of candidates...

This is what EF has put up there, which lends credibility to that theory (for me at least

9) Lathum - Promotion Specialist (day four "unblockable" unlocked bonus)

Leg 1 was two confirmed villagers (Jackal and Lathum)
Leg 2 was JAG and McKerney, who are two guys I haven't seen a lot of discussion on
Leg 3 is CR and hoopsguy

Anybody see anything interesting in there?

good points JAG - but I don't see any reason it couldn't be a wolf only unlockable. It's either that or it's a wolf hidden role, doesn't seem like one is more unbalancing than the other.

Well out of the remaining players no one has been cleared absolutely but several people I think are mostly cleared and therefore I trust.

trust through actions: Saldana
trust through "scan" story: Bhlloy, GoldenEagle - I believe this. NO reason to doubt it at this point.
trust through posts and talk: Autumn - I think he's done the most at trying to accuse wolves as wolves and villagers as villagers

Getting weirdness from:
Danny - nothing he's said this game really makes any sense and his actions have been questionable. With the exception that today he said "Don't vote GE". THAT makes sense and feels villagery.
hoops - he's still here.

Not getting a lot of negative vibes from others altho there are a LOT of quiet people, some who are new (cougarfreak), some who are old (JAG, CR, ntn) and just general chiming in of safe one-liners. Safe one-liners that seem forced are often wolfy tho.

That's interesting, I hadn't seen that bonus listed by his name. Only other thing I can think of is his unlocked bonus was somehow related to his blocking an NK. Hopefully Lathum can fill us in.

Sorry. They are trying to frame bholly as a wolf.

Yeah that might make more sense with the phrase "unblockable" thinking about it. Would explain why the wolves weren't stressed about getting rid of Lathum day 2 like we were all expecting them to do.

I wouldn't describe me as quiet. I have 33 posts in the thread (around 7th in the game), which is actually more than you. ;)

Maybe I'm just used to you having more :) I hadn't really noticed you were talking much, at least these last couple days.

That might be it. I have been busier at work. I think I did a lot more talking on Thursday and Friday.

As I recall that wasn't the reason. It seemed more of a "You save me, and I'll save you " from ntn and then later when ntn was in trouble and you were not, you saved him because he saved you. At least that's what you said. Not because there were better candidates.

I assumed the general quietness was more busy-related for more of the usually talkative folks. I know it's the case for me at least. I still need a thorough look at D1 and haven't been able to yet, and unsure when I will be able.

well there were two things that went into that desicion. First off, I removed my vote for mau for the obvious reason. a supposed seer call out on day one, I was sure gonna not be the cause of their removal, especially at my lack of a role. As for why to move to JAG, well that was a misunderstanding on my part. I thought JAG still had a vote.

VOTE NTNDEACON

I think this vote gives us the most information. 50/50 shot at nailing a wolf.

Alright, I'm heading out for the night. Unless anybody has a better option I'm going to go with Zinto by default as I don't see anybody else with votes that I remotely like as a wolf

Vote Zinto

Yeah, I was fuzzy on why we were talking about mutually moving off of one another, and I thought I had said. I think we were both acknowledging we only voted for one another out of self-defense and came to the agreement to look elsewhere. In the end, same difference; ntn moved off of me fairly quickly, and I moved off of him a little bit later.

Unvote Golden Eagle

I'm not going to consider anyone cleared by a scan with a cunning wolf out there, but if no one else is willing to go down that road I'll drop it for now.

To bhlloy? This doesn't sit well with me.

I was thinking ntn, but my problem with ntn is that he was the big run that took the heat of Mauboy on day 1. I don't see why the wolves take it off mauboy to put it on another one of their own.

Me neither. I'm on GE as being the cunning, but if bhlloy is the cunning, I don't see the wolves killing the seer. They'd want to keep DV around so he could tell everyone that he scanned bhlloy.

Probably if ntn is the cunning -- they'd rather have a vanilla wolf get lynched then the cunning, who might get falsely cleared later.

Me neither, pretty crappy luck and I can be as mad at EF as I like for there not being anything in the rules.

disagree. I was a logical kill choice regardless of who I voted for.


disagree

Lathum, can you explain why you think the wolves would kill DV is they knew he scanned the cunning?