well presumably chubby wasn't a mason, b/c if he was then the mason's would have steered the vote to grammaticus...if it even got to the masons, as i speculated, the action happened so fast i suspect reiman may have taken out chubby b/c of a personal grudge, perhaps from a prior WW game?

Yes, of course it was too close.

oops Grey...you missed the deadline being moved to 8:30 hmm?

No matter, as I would speculate that perhaps Grammaticus will be next on the chopping block anyways after today...

Yes. It will also say in the first post of the thread whatever role they had.

earlier in the evening he said, yes roles would be revealed.

Are we told if Reiman uses his power?

And how exactly do Masons break ties? Do all of them have a second vote after a tie vote, or is the tie broken based on how Masons voted as part of the regular vote? If the latter, what if there are Mason votes that weren't a part of the tie?

I think we need to know that if we're really going to be able to intentionally utlilize multiple tie scenerios, etc.

whoops

just re-vote after the morning actions if he's still alive grey...i don't think you'll be the only one...

The biggest problem I am having right now is trying to figure out if all these people who seem like they are sticking up for others are masons or wolves.

The mason had to be luriking. We can prety much rule out any people who were not online. The vote to break the tie came so quickly. Does it really matter if we know who the mason is?

well me personally...i'm just a confused-ass newb villager. i just think it's helpful to lay out ALL my thoughts, because maybe something i say makes someone tip their hand, or can be combined with something someone else noticed...

\

well if we can figure who the masons are we can leave them out of the ties intentionally, thus further narrowing down their choices...

Well, being known would make masons a target for wolves.

Yes it matters and we don't want the masons to let us know they are masons.

They already have a circle of trust of people to not vote for. By letting wolves know who to kill it allows the bad guys to eliminate the only trusted villagers there are.

EXACTLY

Utlizing the masons is the key to winning the game for the villagers, but I don't think we've figured out how to do that yet.

Obviously late in the game, if there's only a few villagers left, and they're all or mostly masons, they'll know how the wolves are. But left to probability alone, what are the odds a group of masons survive together for that long? The odds seen miniscule, even if wolves are picking out villagers randomly.

Sure, masons can (slightly) improve the probability that a wolf is hit in the case of a tie. But how much of an impact is that, when the tie will usually be between villagers.

And what's the best kind of tie for the villagers here? A two-way tie with 8 guys on each side, or a 18-way tie with everyone in the game having one vote?

The mason's can't let us know who they are otherwise they die a horrible death.

And just because the tiebreaker was quick doesn't mean they had to be online at time of the lynch. It was pretty obvious where we were going and St. Cronin could have PM'd people ahead of time.

Or perhaps wolves pretending they're masons.

how bout if we tie everything up? give everybody 1-vote or as close to it as we can? then if people start to pile we assume they're wolves since it'd be to villager's advantage to have a total tie. then the masons have their circle of trust and they can just pick at random between everyone else. Their chances are at least slightly better than the rest of ours since they have the "circle of trust"

damn chubby was a villager, crap shoot

I have all night actions, results coming.

so soon!

anyone have anything to say before they may be killed say it now...

boy, good call with that one....

at what point (if any) do we start to get some better idea...some reasonable voting history to dig into?

just curious if the vets can give us any insight into how long the "crapshoot" period of the game lasts?

well you didn't necessarily...vigorously protest your innocence or anything chubby. although i'll note...i moved my vote off you to force the tie. and i'm still not sure that reiman didn't wipe you out, seems like it happened real quick.

I think we can clearly rule out certain people as not having night actions.

like who molson?? name names dammit, don't be cryptic!

You awake from a fitful night's sleep, tired, paranoid, terrified of what will happen. A quick head count reveals one of you is missing; a roll call shows that AlanT has not joined you this morning. You rush to his house, but it's too late - there is blood everywhere, and a terrified look in his dead eyes. The wolves have claimed another victim. His house contains no clues that he was anything but an ordinary villager.

Day 3 has begun - voting deadline 8:30pm Wednesday

it varies from game to game. Usually when you nab a wolf you gain alot of info. The problem is there doesn't seem to be alot of roles in this game so there is less info to go on. Usually there is a seer, witness, bodyguard, etc... that can provide early insight and clear players.

I liked Alan T. I mourn his loss. Mourn. Mourn.

I just want to point out that night actions could have been sent to me at anytime today. It would be a mistake to read into who was or was not online now.

Wow. Another veteran goes down. This is getting vey interesting. I am curnching some thoughts right now. Damn, this game is fun!

i hypothesize that the death of Alan may actually clear Grammaticus a bit...because Grammaticus pushed Alan to vote for him and force the tie, putting Grammaticus' head on the block, which G. would not want if he was indeed evil.

agree? disagree?

Well, I was thinking that people that weren't on the board between day results and night results, but on the other hand I guess it's possible that they sent their night action or inaction earlier in the day.

sorry I wasn't very active today my daughter had pink eye and I had to leave work and pick her up.

anyhow I appriciate that some feel I'm a "vet" because I've played many WW games, but ask blade my game isn't "vet" level.

I'm home half the day tomorrow w/ her then off to work so I should, assuming she improves, be more active tomorrow.

not an excuse at all, but a reason for my lack of posting today.

or perhaps it's because you howl at the full moon!:eek:

Grammaticus is a smart man. I though the Alan T/Anxiety exchange was a bit odd at the end of voting Day 1. Perhaps the wolves thought that taking out a vet like Alan T would try to save some votes for tommorow and confuse us even more.

I think Grammaticus is a wolf, but he may/may not be who I vote for tommorow.

Well at the time Gramm was leading the vote, so he just wanted AlanT to tie it up so he had at least a chance of staying alive. I don't think it is that easy to read into who was killed for what reason just yet.

but would grammaticus risk his own neck up against a villager who might be a mason (essentially commiting suicide) just to try to throw us?

what more makes you think grammaticus is a wolf GE? I'm curious because I am still pondering that possibility, and if you thought he was...why would you not try to rally support for your line of thinking?

IIRC Grammaticus pushed Alan to "VOTE GRAMMATICUS" right before the deadline, and that was the last Grammaticus/Chubby vote cast.

dola

Sorry, reareading things Chubby was ahead in the vote, but Gramm certainly didn't step up and say he wanted the vote to be tied, infact he explicitly said he didn't. See post 478.

yea, spill it baby!

that makes more sense.

so c'mon GE

lay out your evidence on Grammaticus...

i think its less evidence and more "suspicion and innuendo"

Alan T. said the above to Path, about Schmidty, that he was 90% confident that Schmidty was "good". Which was bizarre, because Schimdity's hardly said anything. I figured that Alan T. might be a Mason, or a wolf pretending to be a Mason, especially when he broke out the same "circle of trust" terminology a few pages later when dicussing mason strategy. Maybe a wolf thought the same thing.

Unless anyone has a better theory, I'm thinking we maybe try to engineer a 3-way tie between suspicious vets, and give our masons another crack at 'em.

well AlanT wasn't a mason, as cronin said that we would find out hidden roles upon death

I will not be voting for gramat today, and stating that im currently deciding between two suspects for my vote today. Both have voted for who i believe to be villagers both days, and have played innocent enough without giving any real details