Yes, I am defensive, b/c no one else in this game has doubted me, and I really went out on a limb yesterday when I revealed. I was on Lathum's side and he turned out to be good. And to all of a sudden get called out like that is just BS in my opinion. It'd be one thing if you had valid reasons, like we do with NC, Anxiety, etc...but you don't.

But hey, it's WW - it's just a game and I don't take it personally, however I do play the game and play to win.

I'm definitely looking at it your way. I'm just showing everyone that your victory conditions deviate from the village's.



I cut off your sentence there. Why do you think an angel would try to save another angel? Maybe because the demons' victory condition includes killing the angels?



No need to apologize. It's not like I'm asking you to have faith in me or anything -- I'm just pointing out the facts, and outlining the best course of action.

That's a weird comment. Do you think I'm asking you to play to lose?

You're all DOOOOMED



DOOOOOOOOOMED i say



DOOOOOOOMED!

She doesn't need to "gain trust from the village", she's already trusted by everyone but you apparently. Olie has made good decisions for the village all game.

Damn, for a dead guy, you sure are noisy!

Yeah when I died Lucifer gave me this megaphone to pay with.....:D

Good morning. I see RendeR is still occasionlly posting.

Tonight is Magic Night over at a friend;s house. I will b leaving at around 3 pm and won;t be coming back until around 3 am.

That gives me around 3 hours here, eating food, and do soem writing with a short storyt that U want to do.

I suspect that most of today will resemble yesterday. Quiet, a lot of boring attacks. because we are in a holding pattern after having no observbations last night.

In other news, take a look at this:

Fix teh Cathedral today - kil either Angel or Demon, doesn't matter.
N5 they have to sabotage it again
D6 - Fix it again. Kill either angel or demon, doesn;t matter
N6 - They can no longer sabotage it. Kill someone.
D7 - We win. They can no longer sabotage the cathedral.

Basically, we are winning this game on 7 as long as we don't get silly and whack villagers during lynch time.

So,

Vote StCronin
Vote StCronin

Have fune

Which is what's troubling me. There's no reason for you reveal if you're an angel.

If I were an angel, I would have let them lynch Gabriel, knowing that I needed to hide from the demons and they would need to get lucky to nail me, or else they'll know two angels instead of just the one that Lucifer actually knew from the beginning.

Forgot to reply to this. If I'm not an angel, it's not only "the real Michah" that would be able to out me. It could be any of the other angels.

At this point, the demons have decided that they don't need to make a fake reveal as an angel -- we'll see how that plays out, and if they change their mind.

I've been pretty open about wanting this Cathedral built all game -- that's the angels victory condition. I've put in an IRREVERSIBLE action to build the cathedral, rather than get involved in all the politicking -- which has been very important in these past two days of intense voting. All the evidence points toward me being an angel.

It was a tough choice, deciding whether to do that. And I give you credit for making me feel like my hand was forced in the matter, by going into detail about how you believed Anxiety's signal several days later, over cronin's which was made the next day. As saldana said, that could not have been a mistake -- the e and i are nowhere near each other on the keyboard (unless cronin uses one of those DVORAK keyboards, which I could see him doing -- I don't know where e and i are on those).

Just looked it up. The middle row of a DVORAK keyboard is AOEUI -- so e and i are two away from each other. Not right next to each other, but not as far away as on the QWERTY.

Learn something new every day -- I always thought it was called DVORAK because those were the upper left keys on the keyboard (like QWERTY), and that it was just a coincidence that the last name matched the composer. But I guess it doesn't look like that at all, and is just named after another guy named Dvorak.

See, it's not a matter of was st.cronin's intentional or not. I know it was intentional. Problem is, Lucifer also reads my prayers.

When cronin did his "reveal", he could have simply added the "Ni!", or tried to call me out, and he would have given the sign that he WAS Gabriel. There were no other reason for cronin not to, considering, if he was Gabriel, he knew I was the only non-angel and non-demon that would have been able to confirm, and there was no reason not to use it immediately after his reveal.

As it is, it was Anxiety who was the first to say the word after the reveals as Gabriel, and he said it correctly, with the same format.

Compound this with your reveal, which I found to be completely un-necessary, you do understand why I'm having a hard time believing st.cronin and you, right?

I am most likely going to be voting for cronin tonight.
If I'm wrong about that, then we kill off Anxiety tomorrow.

Either way, like I said yesterday, before Alan's duking of Lathum, we're going find out, and base our next actions after really figuring out who's who.

If you're using this in your agrument, why does the formatting matter?

It's a minor part of my reasons. The fact that Anxiety used the proper formatting, AND did call me out when he revealed are compounding factors that lead me to believe that he is more likely to be Gabriel than st.cronin.

Apparently, AlanT has also made a blanket statement that we're all part of an axis of evil.

:rolleyes:

PB, I saw that you were in the thread earlier this morning. You were like me in that you didn't get a vote in, since you worked on the cathedral in the morning. What are your thoughts? I'd like you to join me in working on it again.

Pass, I'm not quite sure what route I'm going. IF you are a demon, I see value in getting people to tie up their actions in work so the village can be picked off. However, IF you are an angel (never thought I would call you angel, haha!), I can see the win-condition aspect of this. I'm hoping for some more villager discussion regarding our win set. I saw Anxiety's post, at least I think it was his, outlining possible villager win conditions but not quite sure that works. Turning it over now.

Let me know if you need me to shoot holed in Anxiety's post. I'd prefer that you do it yourself, but if not, I can help.

that should be holes, not holed

holes

huhhuh

Huhuhuh, I'm the carpenter, I work with wood...

Sorry, had to jump in on the Beavis and Butthead moment.

I'm a little worried about voting shenanigans, but I'll forego one vote to keep the cathedral moving along, something which was very nearly neglected yesterday.

WORK ON CARPENTRY

Dola, I'll be inclined to put my other action into work as well, but I want to keep it in reserve for the time being in case it's needed.

I can understand that. Besides, every little bit helps. One more finishes it, and another helps make sure no one is faking their work.

Incorrect actually. We currently have three units dedicated (your two and Wednesday's one) and we need a total of six. This leaves us three shy of meeting it and one shy of getting extra unless I have missed two actions somewhere.

Sorry -- I was assuming that when cronin shows up, he would work on the cathedral.

That said, I still think it's a good idea for you to put both your actions into working on the Cathedral, PB.

Heading home -- have to run some errands, but should be back before deadline.

So have we decided, as a village, who we are lynching tonight? Last I checked it was between Anxiety and Cronin...

Can't help this one. Fun game to watch folks.

Not that I care for her, but:

Alright guys, I'm going to be gone for the evening. If you don't know, I teach English and I've got the opportunity to go to a reading and meet and greet with author Nick Hornby (wrote High Fidelity, About a Boy, and several other solid books). So here are my actions, hopefully they help the village. Also, my night action will be in play tonight.

Work on carpentry
Work on carpentry

Yeah, those are still the choices. Basically who do you believe?

The villagers have decided to lynch Anxiety.

Very cool, PB! Will they ever make a good movie out of one of his books? I saw High Fidelity but haven't read it -- the movie was so-so. I read Fever Pitch and *loved* it -- I haven't seen the movie, but based on the commercials, it looked like a steaming pile of crap. The only one where I've read the book and seen the movie was About a Boy, which was a good book, but I absolutely hated the movie.

And nice work on the Cathedral!

Can you tell me where/when this was decided and agreed upon? I haven't seen any votes placed today...

I'm putting in my votes now. I'll probably be gone for an hour or two. I'm going the way I went yesterday, hoping that my gut feeling is right.

Vote st.cronin

Vote st.cronin

Everyone else can vote for what they think is right. Like I said yesterday, we kill Lucifer today or tomorrow. I hope it's today.

I guess it was agreed upon last night, when the villagers voted for Anxiety, 9-7. Obviously, there will be some differences between last night's vote and this one. For one, Lathum is gone, so that's two less votes for Anxiety. But Alan T is around, and has votes for Anxiety in now, so that's those two back (provided he doesn't change his vote). PB and I are still workin' on the Cathedral, but we did that yesterday, so that's even. Wednesday had two votes for Anxiety yesterday, but put in some work today, so that's one less vote for Anxiety. Path sounds like he's more interested in lynching cronin than building the cathedral, which he spent one action doing yesterday, so that's one more vote for cronin. Assuming everyone else votes the same, that makes it 8-8. Schmidty put in one vote for Anxiety, and if he remembers that he can vote twice today ( don't worry man, I had a day where I forgot I had two actions, too :) ), it would be 9-8 Anxiety. Oh, also, cronin will probably just work on the Cathedral, so that's two less votes for Anxiety. 8-7, cronin will get lynched.

Then there's you, OG -- you put in votes on cronin because you were following public opinion, which you seem to be looking to do again. I'm not sure why you're so concerned now with what everyone else thinks, when this morning, you were so strong-willed in your perception of being forced into something. Anyway, you had 2 votes on cronin, before I vouched for him -- so I can understand that, and never called you out for it. If you keep them on cronin, and everything else goes like I said above, it stays 8-7 cronin. And if you switch, it goes 9-6 Anxiety. But if you're looking for a measure of the rest of the village, if you simply take your votes out -- again, based on yesterday's vote, with alterations based on what's happened this morning, and the assumption that path is going to vote cronin twice -- it's Anxiety 7, cronin 6.

There have been four votes placed today -- two for cronin (by Anxiety) and two for Anxiety (by Alan T).

Didn't see that coming. And thanks for ruining my informal vote count. :p

It doesn't matter which of me or Anxiety gets lynched today, AS LONG AS WE DON'T LYNCH A VILLAGER!!!!

Question for Barkeep: Does Cathedral work process even if the player gets lynched? In other words, if I work on the cathedral, and get lynched, does my work still count?

You know, Pass, I'm getting really tired of your nasty comments. I ask a simple question, and I get sarcasm and snide attitude from you. I'm trying to help, I'm trying to win the game for the villagers...hopefully just like you are.

Sorry -- I thought you said you didn't take it personally. No offense intended.

As usual, I vehemently disagree with Alan's analysis. I believe that path is probably a villager. I think his explanation makes sense. I think that lynching Neon does us no good.

I also think that saldana is likely a demon, having thought over that day 2 sequence some more. Unless Neon can explain how saldana knew the codeword, which he obviously did.

What areas of work on the cathedral still need doing?

There were 6 units of carpentry that needed doing when the day started. I've done 2, PB has done 2, and Wednesday has done 1. Provided none of them are faking, we need one more. But the more the better.

Ok:

WORK ON CARPENTRY



WORK ON CARPENTRY

WORK ON CARPENTRY

VOTE ST. CRONIN

Thanks for putting the one action in, at least! I think your vote is misplaced, though -- I think it's a bad villager move.

cronin...i dont know how you are coming up with me as a demon, seeing as how i revealed that i worked on the cathedral at night (yes i realize this is unconfirmed), but also after I put the lyhch vote on chief rum instead of you, changed my votes TO Anxiety yesterday to create a tie, which took you off the block for the time being, and lobbied the Bishop to see the error of his ways and not vote for you?

vote anxiety
vote anxiety

I think cronin is making too much of an apparent coincidence -- after cronin said "Nion Chaos" you changed your vote, voting the same way as cronin -- and this was right after you said you would vote the same way Neon does. So it seemed like you were voting for Neon's "team" and that you knew about the "Ni" signal. As for why he still thinks it...well, he said he was really sick today, so he's probably too out of it to see all the details.

I believe you, though. If you're dead set against working on the cathedral, that's cool -- will you be around at deadline? If you can watch for any demon shenanigans, that would be great!

Maybe, I'm not completely convinced myself - it just seems to follow logically from what I know. Your play has overall been very puzzling to me, there's something going on with you that I can't figure out.

I guess if I had to bet my life on it, I'd bet the other demons were Schmidty and Mr. W.

you are right about one thing, i have played a bit differently this game than i usually do...normally, i sit back and watch for a couple days and then come out gunning with the conclusions i have drawn in the previous days.

this game, i decided to come out a little more agressively because i thought the 2 vote per cycle dynamic could be used against the village, and wanted to try and limit that happening.

just changing the pace a little bit...doesnt mean i am not exactly what i said i am...a humble friar working for the best of the village.

Saldana, are you perchance the Monk Neon referenced in one of his prayers to me? I've been very puzzled by that.

You would be way wrong. Just for that:

Vote st. cronin

It's a bad idea to place votes out of spite.

nope, unless he named my role wrong...friar, not a monk

I know. It's not spite. If someone votes for someone for absolutely no reason at this point in the game, it looks bad to me.

Who has voted for someone with absolutely no reason?

For the record, I believe you. If you were a demon, you could have placed two votes on cronin last night. I think you're best served putting some work in on the cathedral, though.

Hey sal, I see that you're in the thread -- that question about the deadline was directed at you.

yeah pass, i should be in at the deadline...not sure what you expect me to be able to do about anything...i already voted.

Me neither. How about this -- if a bunch of people switch votes at the last minute, you can say "Ha! Pass was right!"

I guess my worry is along the lines of what cronin said -- we can't afford to lose a villager. So if people start voting for someone other than Anxiety or cronin, you're better off voting for cronin than a potential villager.

I'm not sure if I'll be around at deadline or not...will try but can't make any guarantees.

I've been accused by st. cronin of being a demon, but there is zero evidence.

Where do you think I should put the work in? It looks like carpentry is covered for now.

Well, carpentry is the only thing that was unfinished as of this morning, so it seems like we should put all of our resources into fixing that. But that begs the question -- do you think someone can sabotage part of the cathedral during the day? My guess is no, so my suggestion is to go for the carpentry, and make sure that no one is faking it today.

accused yes...voted for, no....big difference

About a Boy is one of my sentimental all time favorites and is the DVD I own which I have watched the most (though admittedly I have seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail more often. I have recently been meaning to rewatch it.

Yes.

Have you read the book? It could be that I hate it because I watched it very shortly after reading the book, and it just doesn't compare. I've usually been a "book first, then movie" person, but I'm starting to change my tune -- if you read the book first, the movie never compares, but if you see the movie, then read the book, it seems like you end up liking both.

Ok, sounds reasonable.

WORK ON CARPENTRY

Cool. Now the only problem is your vote on cronin. I know he made a comment about you, but come on -- cronin and I are the ones trying to build the cathedral! If we were demons, why would we waste our votes on that in a "which reveal is right?" day. If we're demons, wouldn't we want to use our votes in voting for the other guy -- like Anxiety did?

Or you could have ulterior motives...like "let's send the villagers on a race to complete the Cathedral and then we don't have to worry about them casting as many votes and our fellow wolves can sway it however we want"...not saying it's the case, just that it's a possibility...

Your vote says you think it's the case. How many demons do you expect there to be besides us, if cronin and I are demons? Not to mention that if we succeeded in lynching Anxiety this way, cronin and I would be totally screwed.

would be screwed after the role reveal, I meant

I personally think there are 3 demons + Gabriel...I am just not sure who is Lucifer and Gabriel, there are a number of possibilities. Your play today has been odd to me, you've been very pushy and aggressive which is pinging my radar for some reason. Anxiety is definitely on the list, as are NC and Cronin.

3 demons + Gabriel? Do you mean 3 demons + Lucifer? Fine. So in your theory, two demons plus me and cronin. How many angels? Let's say 2. That's 4 votes for cronin from them, two more from NC is 6. If our plan is to distract the villagers and get them to build the cathedral so that we can vote for Anxiety, it's not a plan that's going to work.

I'm not sure what you mean about the rest of your post. I thought everyone was wokring on the assumption that cronin and Anxiety were Gabriel and Lucifer, but don't know which is which.

And then -- is Alan one of the demons, voting for Anxiety? If so, why would he duke us away from our vote for Anxiety yesterday, then vote for him today?

The current work on the cathedral should be plenty if Pass is as good as he claims. I don't think he is but also don't think he'll come out and openly sabotage, so I will use my actions to vote.

VOTE ST CRONIN
VOTE ST CRONIN

To clarify - I think there are 2 demons, Lucifer and Gabriel...

So 3 demons total, and one angel total?

Do what you gotta do, man. :)

I think this sums up why I'm so suspicious of you today....if you think cronin and anxiety are Gabriel and Lucifer but you aren't sure which one is which, why are you so hell bent against lynching Cronin tonight? If you agree that he is one of those 2 roles, we have a 50/50 shot of being right, the exact same odds of being right by lynching Anxiety.

My thinking is that you are a demon, Cronin is Lucifer, Anxiety is Gabriel. In my mind, there isn't another simple (using Occum's Razor rule here) explanation for your play today...which has come off as you being hell bent to lynch Anxiety.

*I* know which is which -- I just meant that everyone else is unsure. I said that cronin is Gabriel a long time ago.

And I have *never* said to lynch Anxiety! I have said you should work on the cathedral! Show me where I said to lynch Anxiety!

Here's post 991, where I said cronin is Gabriel.

Here's where I asked you to put in work on the cathedral. I don't know where you get that I want you to vote for anxiety.

Sorry, that last post of mine that I quoted was 1075 -- I should have labeled it. This is post 1087, where I ask again to work on the cathedral.

Here's post 1149, where I thank you for putting in work on the cathedral. When you did that, it really raised my trust in you, and I went from possibly suspecting you, to only convincing you that I'm right (whereas before, I was doing both).

Because after I voted for Cronin, you made a comment about my vote being misplaced or something - I'll have to go back and find it. And after Path voted for Cronin, you said "Do what you gotta do, man." And when Schmidty voted for Cronin, you said that voting out of spite was a bad idea...how many more examples of trying to convince people to NOT vote for Cronin (and by default, vote for Anxiety as they are the 2 that we've agreed need to go) do you need????

That is not the same as being hell bent on lynching Anxiety. How many times do I have to ask you to work on the cathedral for you to realize that that's what I want you to do?

And really, Occum's Razor? You're arguing that cronin and I are demons, outing ourselves, and putting in work on the cathedral, which is a winning condition for everyone BUT the demons? Wouldn't it be much simpler to assume that we're just building the cathedral so we can win the game?

All I'm saying is that there is a chance that you are wrong...there is a chance you are misleading us to work on the Cathedral so you can work on some other devious plan you have. I don't know. I'm just suggesting an alternative. I've cast my vote for Cronin and I'm not planning at this point on moving it.

That's fine. I can understand if you're naturally suspicious, or if werewolf brings out the conspiracy theorist -- just that you can't do that, then claim it's Occum's Razor!

And I actually liked the way you hedged your bets -- putting in some work on the cathedral to appease my side, and a vote for cronin to appease Anxiety's side.

I can do what I want, I'm an independent woman on the 21st century ;)

That's cool, too. Just expect to get called out on it if I'm around! :p

Come on NC -- you've been sitting stoically in this thread for a while now -- you know you want to force the tie just to make BK go back and calculate his crazy tiebreaker system! :)