Ah never knew you could convert for some reason.

Well my grumblings aside, the evil guys pulled out a big victory after a disastrous first couple days, so good job again.

Thomkal, what's the beef? Jeebs needed to vote.

True. It's not like he wouldn't have voted with his DE buddies.

Oh almost forgot this. Back when Dubb was making sure I knew the DE's could PM each other, I posted that I knew and debated over adding the fact that yes and your vote switching could be a prime example of the DE's changing their voting plan mid-day. Wish I had kept it in now of course, but I'm not sure it would have convinced anyone other than Desnudo who had already brought it up, and I felt more strongly about Ardent at the time, and was trying to stay focused on him.

Dammit, I knew I should have Duked Dubb. At one point, I sent in the PM to change the lynch to him, If I won the vote. That was the day I said I was going to do something pivotal. But, I did not win. Then I decided on Schmidty

Bucc,

I agree-he needed to vote. It was certainly fair that the DE's got a replacement for one of their missing members like the good guys did. It was the timing of it that bothered me. I would have much rather had you active the entire day so we could question you about things. Who knows maybe we would have caught you in a lie, or you would say something that got people voting for you. Unlikely it would have happened, but hey its werewolf.

Oh what the heck happened with WVUFan's Cloak? Who cast the spell on him to confuse him so he couldn't remember, and how could you see him when he was invisible. Whatever it was really saved the day for the bad guys.

Thomkal, that's cool. You pointed out the reason why I have not and could not join a WW game, I am only on FOFC for about 2 hours prior to the 9:30pm deadline. Not being on at all during the weekday and only on close to the deadline are sure ways of ending up dead. In this case, I truly didn't hear back from Saldana until 15 mins before deadline. He said the game was in the bag so I could come in and have a little fun if I wanted.

Thanks. :)

Sorry, Coder. You never were on my ignore list. I just had to fake some emotion there.

Faking emotion was incredibly hard for me. I had to do it a couple of times. By emotion I mean when I'm a villager, I hold nothing back. I'm looking at everything. As a DE, I had to force myself to do things.

I think he meant Raiders Army

I believe he meant...you.

Ah I see. Apologies then-I'm glad you got to play even if it was for about five minutes. :)

You can thank me for that. Jeeber and I were in on the kill. As we went our separate ways, WVU chose the wrong one to follow. I had the ability to alter his memory so he wouldn't remember me.

I was the only DE in on every kill.

well it looks like my death wasn't all that bad. It threw so many people off so many ways.

Coder - thanks for actually picking up on my wikipeda search. I actually got both my spells from there and took almost direct quotes from it.

I sure learned a lot from watching and know who the DE's were that's for sure. But I did suck as a bad guy. I'll admit that.

I wish he would have :( Good job, DE's.

I can't believe how many times I felt like we needed to string him up, including today. I guess that's why he's good though.

Edit: at the end I kept coming back to that SunDvls vote. I had a nagging thought that a truly devious person would do something like that, but it didn't seem to make sense. I can understand the logic now although it was definitely risky.

I knwe AE was a death eater. I put it together that dubb must be a DE as well once I died since he defended AE so quickly.

When you died, that really took the wind out of me. After the day cycle, I trusted you and felt like we had a chance. The DEs really killed all the right people at the right times. And we all made the wrong decisions at the wrong times.

Yea, the DE's did a great job of targeting the wizards and disposing of them at the perfect time.

I knew what it was after I PM'd you about it. Apparently I mistook the statement about "gain some special insights into what is happening around you." as receiving some sort of clue about the DEs.

It wasn't that useful an item since I had to guess if the DEs would attack me and then when they want to kill me. Day cycle it had no use since I wasn't getting much heat until Desnudo kept accusing me late in the game.

OK, to answer the seer questions.

I didn't become the seer until night 5 because as a student I needed time to learn the trait. I viewed schmidty my first night because he was just as suspicious as anyone and I needed somewhere to start. Dubb was my next choice. The reason why I was obvious about schmidty was I knew we were close to losing and I didn't want him to get duked which I knew would be the end of us.

The next night I viewed dubb but got whacked.

At the risk of sounding concieted I was one day away from breaking the game open.

MVP goes to Dubb, great game.

I knew i was going down regardless from night actions even if i said nothing, so i shared what info i had.

My other goal was since i was merely the tie-breaker i could draw attention to myself, and protect the seer and bodyguard for a night...and then they both died/revealed anyways

And i still dont get how you guys dont get dubb and ardent...Practically every vocal experienced player was killed off but those two and no one seemed to notice until like the last day...the first few days were just vets, but these two didnt die...that should be a big clue

Thanks for the great game you ran this time. Im sorry that i did not get to stay around a little longer :) As was mentioned, I never used my potion to kill someone in the night. Mainly that was because after 2 days I had not gotten a great feel for who was on my side and who wasn't. I felt it would be wasting my ability to just blindly use it on someone and hope I got a bad person.

For whatever its worth, i casted 3 votes in this game. 2 of the 3 I picked were DEs. (Qwikshot and Jeebers). I think the turning point of this game was day 2 when we thought we did ourselves a favor in getting our second wolf. I think in hindsight it hurt us a bit because from that point on we never focused on narrowing down our circle of trust and instead blindly picked every day from then on based on guessing. I think that alot of people ran off with Neon's witch hunt which in the end proved very poorly for ourside. I think a few people played an excellent game, I think St.Cronin was on the right track early on, and thats why he was killed. I think Dubbs did a good job, he had me fooled.

Fun game to participate in for a few days and then to watch from here on out. Thanks for letting me join everyone :)

Im stunned at this, as the night he died neon couldnt stop telling you all to go after dubb....and nobody seemed to care...he said it like 20 times that night...and everyone just overlooked it...i was shocked....

i didn't overlook it, i was just to late.

lol, late review? Im also a little dissapointed that no one noticed it was only people talking about dubb or ardent that were getting killed....neon, cronin, schmidty(he was dead by night if not by duking), coffee...no one seemed to notice after the barkeep and i were killed night 1 that only players calling out the right people were getting killed...just a lot of things i saw that could have been taken advantage of, but i guess every game is a learning situation

i saw it but took a 50/50 shot and picked wrong.

So you would have had Superman and Jeeber nailed down too? I agree that we should have had a vote on Dubb, despite his vote for SnDvls, that was a serious error on our part. The main problem is that no one stepped forward from the wizards side and really drove decisions. I've always been a consensus builder, not an all or nothing type, but I think in this game we needed someone on the wizards side to step up and take a risk. That didn't happen, so we lost.

Anyway, it's obvious that the wizards screwed the pooch, but despite the fact that we got two DEs early we also lost all of our good roles early, except Lathum who only factored late, and briefly. Another non-favorable factor, imo, was the disapearance of Pass, WVU, Jeeber and Superman for several votes. I believe that it should be miss two votes and you are gone, as I've seen implemented in other games. It's really not fair to the people who are active.

I think the death eaters did a nice job but we screwed ourselves. I was pushing 3 days for path, if we had killed him earlier maybe I would have been able to focus on someone else.

dola. putting blame on myself there.

I think we all made major errors in judgement. I knew we needed to have a vote on Dubb, but I kept putting off pushing for a vote because I wanted him to be wizard and it was plausible enough so I let it go. This game was a classic case of errors compounding on errors to create a disastrous situation.

So Ardent and dubb were pulling the strings!

damn RA, what are you doing up?

I gotta get ready for work. I'm usually up this time of the day.

i never knew

He also couldn't stop telling us he felt he was safe.

I understand that, and I felt it all along (hence my constant smiley-faces). However, I felt that you were overplaying it a few times, i.e. pushing a bit too hard. I was VERY surprised that the others weren't picking this up. There was no way you were the seer, which should have been picked up by the others when Lathum died at least, but you were pushing my guilt as if you KNEW I was a baddie, yet you didn't want to reveal a role too easily.

This game was frustrating for me at the end since I was too suspected to get my voice heard properly. I was resigned to die because everyone was so focused on me that I had to go to be able to get them to open their eyes towards Ardent. I was absolutely SHOCKED that the wizards didn't pile on Ardent after I was lynched.

I knew the last day I was alive that the AE, Dubb and Superman were killers. I had Dubb on my list the longest, but never actually voted for him.. there were too many inscrepancies.. You guys did an awesome job keeping me alive but constantly the most suspected player for two-three days. That confused the hell out of all wizards I think.

By the same logic, Raiders was a very vocal experienced player and yet he was a wizard. So your logic doesn't work all the time there.

Coder,

I tried after you died-I voted for Ardent right away. I guess I should have posted some long detailed vote analysis like he did. :)

I waited till the game was over to bring this up. In the early games Blade and I went at it over his comments as a ghost influencing the games-especially because he commented about me in one of them. One of the reasons (besides the fact that I suck at Werewolf) that I stop playing.

Blade whether you think so or not, comments by ghosts CAN influence people still alive in the game. People do think differently than you, and comments that seem "safe" to you may trigger thoughts in someone else that lead to someone figuring out something about the game and/or a still living person in the game. The fact is if you are a ghost you were killed off either/or because of your power, your knowledge, or your analysis of the voting trends or who you think the wolves are. They killed you off to STOP you from continuing to use all that. You should respect that and keep your comments to yourself or with the other ghosts privately. In my opinion the only thing a ghost should be saying is either "Go good guys or go bad guys" after a lynch/kill if their role had been revealed upon death.

Jeeber im not sure i ever would have gotten, but thats more becuase of his quietness then anything...super i would have had early in the game. He asked to be night killed instead of lynched, and that exact comment was quoted like 10 times....that screams turncoat

I think raiders should have been a suspect by that logic, yes...but 2-3 is amazing odds

Super wasn't a deatheater until night 6 according to dubb.

he was the turncoat...he becomes a DE when he is night attacked and only that...so lynching him before he becomes a DE is a smart move...turncoats also win with wolves, so even though he was a villager he wasnt. Thats why all the dead found it soo funny that he was the last second vote that killed sun, as he wanted just the opposite

I think dubb should change his handle to Frank Reich.

I voted for Jeeber I think three times! If you looked at my posts (particularly the vote posts) ardent and Jeeber were clearly rotten.

What a train wreck, but kind of fun to watch.

Probably my last werewolf game for a while, as I'm a bit overwhelmed by school at the minute.

Maybe you should have done a better job of keeping yourself alive, then...

I'm not sure what gave you that idea -- I don't think you were standing out until you started into spouting off with hints about your secret role, and it turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy. (Maybe I'm not remembering things right, though...)

I was concerned at some point that just one DE would not be enough, so we decided to always send two.

As far as Gramm was concerned, there were numerous conversations between dubb and I about who he was duking and how we'd react to it.

By the way, everyone, I'm feeling much better. I'd say about 80% today.

One question I forgot to ask Saldana -- with my dark detectors, if I would have been attacked at night, would I have had any chance to see who was coming for me?

Pissed myself off this game -- with the dark detectors I was determined to kind of fly low and hope to be attacked at night, but then had that stupid f'n late vote for WVU and got myself on the suspect list -- at that point I knew I was gonna be pretty useless. I had thought it would have been more suspicious to not vote at all, in hindsight that's what I should have done. Oh well, live and learn.

One thing I wonder about this sending two thing is, where's the risk for the DEs? I see the advantage, but I don't see the potential penalty.

Pretty much.

I had a "threat level" list, where I had players listed in order of how well they played, experience, and my perceived view of how they were doing.

I had a "countdown to victory" chart as well. On this day, we'll take so and so, and at night we'll take so and so. Next day will be so and so, next night so and so.

It worked well. We made a few changes. I was sick the past few days, so I wasn't reading much of late, but dubb was confident Lathum was the seer. He became our night action instead of RPI. Lathum was scheduled for the next day, by the way.

Kwhit and coder also swapped spots. That worked out well for us, too. I told dubb I was concerned about how we could vote out another villager after coder. He threw kwhit's name out there and the villagers ran with it. Beautiful.

The past vew games i had played well and people were starting to hold it against me. I was at the point where i was either scanned or killed pretty quickly in any game where the wolves were vets...after two games with fairly new wolves, i figured the odds were heavily stacked against me and i was correct...its a game of odds, and im betting reveal or not i was going down pretty early(especially since i never trust ardent and he knows that)

With ardents role of being unable to be night viewed, it would have been unfair as ardent would have made the kill every time...i believe this was set up to prevent that

That was the kicker. I knew this past weekend in order to take some heat off of me I had to play "Ardent the Villager". As a villager, I ransack posts looking for clues, and I really wasn't doing that here. I knew that. Since I had 24 hours at the barracks last weekend, I decided I'd at least try.

It was slow going, but Coder made it worthwhile. The Sndvls is legit was nice, but the clincher for me was when he mixed up his own time...the before and after part essentially made a lot of villagers at the time believe I was on their side.

I assumed it was the potential of getting caught. I didn't know about the barkeep added stuff but I figured something along those lines, but the invisible cloak could catch anyone but me. I saw that as risk.

Believe it or not, I called for the barkeep kill. Dubb called for yours.

you would not have seen who attacked you, you just would not have been killed, and the dark detectors would have been destroyed.

I know, dubb and i discussed that at length the same night you guys killed me... :(

As dubb mentioned, we were pretty much resigned to losing after losing both qwik and sndvls. I even said, "The Colts couldn't go 16-0, I doubt we can." I didn't think we could run the table and not lose another DE.

Wednesday and path's late voting heroics definitely helped. We were also super concerned about superman...especially with that early post of his about daring us to attack.

Hello! We're not attacking you now! We didn't know the poison was coming up again, but when we had that opportunity to poison him, we took it. Otherwise, we'd have never touched superman, and we'd likely still be playing today.

blade is partially correct. the other aspect was the secret auror power that barkeep had, where if a single death eater attacked him on a night he protected himself, he would have killed the death eater instead of dying himself. ironically, on night 1 when he died, he almost changed his night action to protect himself, and i had written a separate story to cover his being killed at home by 2 death eaters or his having killed one.

I knew you were lying!

#1 - I had to come out and nail Qwik when I had the goods on him on day 1, because I was probably going to die on Night 1 or 2 (since I ran several WW games already and had a basic read on several guys)

#2 - The reason I wanted dubb checked is because he is probably the best WW player in the game. I mentioned this fact numerous times, and it should have been obvious that the mere fact that he was still alive by Day 4, it should have been clear that he was most likely a DE.

#3 - I know my DE list before I died was completely off. But my trusted list was SOLID (as I said, an alliance of good wizards... too bad you guys didn't pick up on it.) It was funny how people in my most-probably a DE list got picked off one by one. It would have probably been obvious that when Path and Dub were not wolves, most of my suspects would have been probably off too.

#4 - dubb still kicks ass everytime I see him play the game... BUT... MVP probably goes to AE... who had everyone completely guessing.

What is the Flat Earth Society?

A bunch of idiots that still believe the earth is flat.

hxxp://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

That isn't the offical site, but it appears the offical site "Fell off the edge of the earth." Those aren't my words, that what it said when I tried to go to it.

not meaning this as any type of insult to anyone, but did anyone else watching keep having flashbacks to the season of Survivor where stephanie's tribe didnt win a single challenge?

ROFL

That's funny, I've heard of people who still believe that. I thought maybe there was some type of werewolf spoof on that.

So what was supposed to upset the villagers and what was supposed to upset the DE's? Am I missing something?

The non-dukes were supposed to piss off the villagers...not sure on wolves(earlier in the game it was superman, the turncoat, killing sun)...interesting that both pass and super, bad villagers, didnt compete

Eh??

was this a question for me?