I'm highly amused at the leaked Baylor booster e-mails. Baylor is a superior academic institution to Colorado? Not by any measure that the Pac-10 cares about.

I don't think there's any question that everyone involved would prefer Colorado over Baylor. The only ones pushing for Baylor are Baylor themselves, their alums, and State legislators in Texas with some affiliation to Baylor. I have my doubts they'll win out. Tech on the other hand I think is going to be tethered to Texas. A&M will be given the option to try to find a spot in the SEC if that's what they prefer, but if not they're obviously in with the Pac-10 as well.

Right, because it's really simple and there's no complicating factors at all that could slow things down.

Trust me I know what you are saying but the, we are gonna make an announcement, we aren't, one conference wants this, one team wants that BS is starting to drag on, that is all I am saying

To be fair, I'm not sure anyone other than Message Board Guy has said they are going to make an announcement. Except Baylor.

Missouri Board of Curators put out their agenda for this week's meeting with an advisory that there will be no comment on Big 12 or Big 10 matters.

My heart wants this thing over with and keeps thinking that maybe there will be a swift resolution to this. My brain has always said July 1 is the magic date. I don't think anyone wants to be the first to blink and bow to a deadline.

I think June 15 will come and neither Missouri nor Nebraska will give the Big 12 the pledge of allegiance the others want. That puts the ball back into the hands of Texas and the Pac 10.

There's option 3, which is you expand to 14 and keep the door open for Notre Dame in the future.

The more I think about it, the more I think that Nebraska and especially Missouri may be in for a painful wait. You have to think that the Big Ten is not just going to watch Texas go to the Pac 10 without a fight. And, the result is going to be on Texas' time, not the Big Ten's, Pac 10's or Notre Dame's.

Not that I care either way, but Baylor College of Medicine is one of the top ranked NIH funded institutions in the country.

Just wanted to copy something my friend posted on a blog post about baylor being more attractive then colorado based on its supposed athletic accomplishments:

All weekend long, ESPN has been harping about how Oklahoma is the second-biggest catch for the Pac-16 besides Texas.

Really? I mean, really? Does nobody understand the idea of conference expansion? This isn't about football, people: it's about money. If you think Oklahoma and its 45th (OKC) and 61st (Tulsa) ranked media markets is a "catch" with regards to conference expansion, then you have failed to grasp the very essence of why anyone is interested in conference expansion in the first place.

In terms of conference expansion, Oklahoma is basically a crimson and cream New Mexico with a better football team. Oh wait, ALBUQUERQUE IS A BIGGER MEDIA MARKET THAN OKLAHOMA CITY.

/rant

I'm sure Baylor is a fine school, and I know that their school of medicine is one of the best in the country. But in the measures that the Pac-10 (and Big Ten) cares about, Baylor comes up well short of Colorado.

Really? You think that only people in Oklahoma care about watching the Sooners play? Focusing on specific, local media markets is a mistake - a program like Oklahoma has broadly regional and even national appeal. Ask Joe Sportsfan with no affiliation to either school if he'd be inclined to watch an Oklahoma football game on TV, he's going to have some interest. Ask him if he wants to watch a New Mexico football game and he's most like to say "They have a football team?"

Oklahoma boosts the TV negotiating power of the Pac/Big 16. Not nearly as much as Texas, but more than pretty much any other Big-12 program (Nebraska and A&M might be on par).

Yes. A thousand times yes.

Baylor University (Waco) and Baylor College of Medicine (Houston) are unrelated institutions.

Yep. I really don't understand the point of a do-or-don't deadline from the Big 12. The Big Ten isn't going to spend up their timetable to make Texas happy. If the Pac 10 is ready to go, feel free to send the invitations out. I don't think the Big 10 cares one way or another. They know they need to expand to keep up with the Joneses, and they will do it the way they want.

Oh i agree joe schmoe is more likely to want to watch OU, but i dont believe for a second that the TV deals the networks will negotiate will be value it nearly as much as it likely should be valued. When dealing in dollars, i think media market is more highly valued unless the regional/national fan base is obvious like a ND

I'm not going to bash Baylor here. They are a good school and they have better sports programs than Colorado right now. (and maybe for the future as well)

But Colorado has been flirting with the PAC 10 for years now. And "quality" of sports isn't the determining factor here. CU has a bigger TV market, a better overall academic program and more recognition.

Despite sucking hard the last five years, CU football still gets 5 to 7 national TV dates a year and is watched heavily.

One more huge advantage CU has on Baylor is the number of alumni in California. There are between 40,000 to 50,000 CU alums in CA right now and more growing by the day. There are also a ridiculous amount of CA transplants in Colorado. CU makes more sense than Baylor. I agree with Bug, if all of this stuff blows up and you only see one or two minor moves happen, one of them will be CU moving to the PAC 10. This is something that's been planned on for a long while.

About the only thing Baylor has going for it is a decent hoops program that may or may not slide back into irrelevancy is Scott Drew leaves, and a baseball program that can make money. Neither is enough to put them in the Pac 10.

I'll let JIMGa weigh in on this, but I don't think you're correct on this. People involved in advertising know damn well how attractive these various schools are and in what markets. It's not as clear-cut as saying "OKlahoma = size of Oklahoma City media market". Think about Texas - they're are far more than just the Austin media market -they appeal throughout Texas (to varying degrees of course) and have even a national appeal, both because of the prestige of the program as well as distribution of alumni. It's not as pronounced as with Notre Dame, but their appeal extends well beyond the nearest major metro areas in Texas.

I know I'm not alone as a college football fan in saying that certain teams carry more appeal to watch than others. My priorities are my team (the Huskies), then teams in my conference, then teams outside of the conference based on a variety of factors (team prestige, how they're doing this season, any compelling story lines). Because of their history and their current run of success, Oklahoma carries moderate appeal for me if I'm flipping through the TV channels. Far more so than, say, Baylor or Kansas or New Mexico.

Interesting...thanks.

If it was all about markets, the original Big East would've been a huge success instead of perpetually last in terms of TV contracts among the BCS schools. Think about it:

Rutgers and Syracuse - NYC (#1 Market)
Temple - Philly (#4 Market)
BC - Boston (#5 Market)
WVU and Pitt - Pittsburgh (#22 Market)
Miami (#17 Market)
And I'm not really sure what market VT would fall in, but you get the gist.

Even after the changes, you throw in:

USF - #12
Uconn - #28
Cincy - #34
Louisville - #50

Whatever the reason, those markets didn't help the Big East to land big contracts.

Not completely accurate. The medical school was part of Baylor University until sometime in the late 60s/early 70s, when the medical school split off in order to obtain federal research money. It is true that today that the College of Medicine is completely independent, but they are far from unrelated.

And a thousand times more yes. Oklahoma is one of the few teams with significant national appeal.

It's a multi-dimensional problem. Media market is one factor, saturation is another. Otherwise Rice would be a bigger prize than Texas and Rutgers would already be invited.

Oklahoma has more alums than New Mexico. And more a history of athletics, so those alums are more likely to love football.

Could you see a MAC Network succeeding in the same area as the Big Ten Network? They are in most of the same markets.

This is why Nebraska is far more than irrelevant in this discussion. It's more a "how much is this package worth in every different market" than an on-off switch in one market.

All eyes on Nebraska right now.

I won't necessarily dispute that some times have more appeal than others. Oklahoma vs. SMU has inherently more value than TCU vs. SMU.

But the notion that teams have significant national appeal over other comparable teams I would dispute. The last year I found numbers for was 2008 and NBC was pulling in a 2.2 rating for Notre Dame games. ESPN average a 2.0 rating for ALL games. That means that Notre Dame was only drawing 10 percent more audience than the random ESPN game -- and if you've watched Thursday Night football, you know ESPN games can be pretty darn random.

ABC's games draw twice the number that Notre Dame gets on NBC. If you gave me one of the top 10 games of the week versus a single particular school, that random game is going to win in the long run.

The reason Notre Dame has a contract with NBC is that 20 years ago when Notre Dame is good the NCAA went and cut a deal without NBC. Notre Dame was the only team that was essentially a free agent, and the only way for NBC to get football. Now, it's actually a cheap way for NBC to get a game to show most weeks of the football season.

Compelling football is all you need. If you need any proof, in 2007 the highest-rated regular season college football game of the year was Missouri-Kansas.

OU has a huge alumni base in Dallas. The ABC affiliate treats OU games in Dallas as if they are in a home market, meaning they will not be changed to another game even if it is a blowout. I would guess that probably more than 1/4 of the OU student body is from Texas, largely Dallas. It's not like Dallas, the fifth largest TV market in the country, is all Texas Longhorns.

Oh, cmon, are you seriously going to tell me you'd stop channel surfing on a close OU vs. Minnesota game opposite a game of #15 New Mexico @ #23 Baylor.

Yeah, I would be too. The OU prestige means something. Anyone who thinks it doesn't is silly. (just to remind people, I went to Oklahoma St., despise everything about OU and I'd still pay more attention to an OU game vs. anyone than a battle of decent but not great football teams.)

There is a reason why traditional powerhouse programs only sleep for a number of years, but always wake up. (USC, Alabama, Michigan, Texas, Ohio St., Nebraska, etc.) They are still interesting to the rest of the country and all it takes is the right coach to come turn them around. OU being compared to New Mexico is a joke on a lot of levels.

In terms of market worth, I'm interested to know why BYU isn't more coveted by the PAC-10. I know, they wouldn't be able to play any games on Sunday which has people scared. But surely as the largest LDS school in the country they have fans and alum all over the place?

If the PAC-10/Big 12 south merger does fall through, I'd love to see the PAC-10 take a run at Colorado, Utah, BYU and UNLV. I know UNLV doesn't fit academically but... it's the Vegas media market and traditionally a good basketball team.

I've heard that Pac-10 isn't happy about having any team having a significant religious affiliation which is one small issue with Baylor.

I believe it's Cal that has the issue. I'm sure ASU and UofA could care less as a game vs. BYU is always a good game for the pocketbook

In the words of all those characters in Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

GET ON WITH IT!

Speculation is driving me crazy.

BYU isn't worth nearly enough in terms of revenue for the conference to put up with all of the cultural differences between BYU and the existing schools. Texas is worth enough that they're possibly willing to accept Baylor if it's required to get Texas, and Oklahoma's TV appeal trumps their lesser academic standing.

Look at the Pac 10's overall makeup.

Berkley/Bay Area (x2)
LA, CA (x2)
Eugene, OR
Seattle, WA

While the other four schools areas are more conservative, they aren't nearly as populated as five of the schools on that list and the sixth school (Oregon) has money to burn.

The PAC 10 can spin this anyway they want to. They can say BYU isn't a research institution, that BYU doesn't play on Sunday's and any other nonsense they want to come up with. The reality is they don't want a religious school as part of their makeup. Yet another reason the PAC 10 covets CU over Baylor.

Like this?

Academic freedom at Brigham Young University - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Did Missouri hold their press conference yet?



Note: my friend on Orange Bloods says they are reporting that Colorado is having a secret meeting tonight that could lead them to accept a Pac Ten invitation tomorrow.

I think it's more specific than just the Pac-10 doesn't want a private religious school - it's that the Pac-10 doesn't want THE private religious school for the LDS faith given the major philosophical differences between the actions of the church (and BYU) vs. what the people running the Pac-10 schools feel is appropriate.

And while academics are certainly not the primary thing driving this (otherwise the Oklahoma schools wouldn't be considered), the differences what BYU funds for research and how that school operates academically is also part of the equation.

This is probably the funniest (and most accurate) thing in this whole clusterfuck. I'm really partial to:

"Kansas: At this point, I have the FBI and IRS so far up my ass that they've set up a branch office in my colon. So, I'm taking him wherever I go."

Just read that article from Orange Bloods which is circulating around. Tomorrow could be a day full of sports news.

There's never a good time to have your AD testifying before a grand jury while he's being blackmailed and being investigated by the university for ethics violations. But during Conference Armageddon? I almost feel sorry for KU. Oh, I'd still walk across the street to piss on Lew Perkins, but I still almost feel sorry for the c-hawks.

I would love to see this happen, well the UNLV part anyway. The Pac-10 is a fun conference and UNLV is improving as an academic school. It's a very young institution and it's making strides towards becoming a true national research university.

...Of course, they're going to have find a way to stop the budget cuts from happening year after year or they'll be frustrated in that end goal.

Big Ten, Notre Dame Are Talking ... Again

06/08/2010 3:39 PM ET By Terrance Harris
Notre Dame is officially on the clock.

According to sources, the Big Ten officials and Notre Dame officials have entered into talks that could drastically alter the realignment talk which has dominated headlines in recent days. One insider told FanHouse on Tuesday that the two sides are talking about the nation's biggest independent joining one of the most influential conferences to give the Big Ten its desired 12 members.

The source said the talks "could not necessarily" be described as negotiations but said if Notre Dame can be convinced to give up its long standing independence that things could move rather quickly. Another source familiar with the back-and-forth between Notre Dame and the Big Ten over the years believes all of the Big Ten expansion talk which began with commissioner Jim Delany's announcement last December has always been aimed at getting the Irish to join the conference.

The realization that the Big Ten's threat to add five members could trigger a reaction that would create four super 16-team conferences, and effectively put the squeeze on Notre Dame scheduling, has convinced Irish officials to again sit down at the table with the Big Ten. Earlier this decade the two sides explored the possibility of Notre Dame joining the Big Ten, but in the end the Irish opted to remain independent and enjoy a lucrative television deal with NBC.

Since then, the major conferences have shifted away from giving Notre Dame a full conference share of any BCS game it participates in and, in order to get to the national title game, the Irish have to go undefeated during the regular season.

"Now Notre Dame has to be asking themselves who will they schedule in a four-conference,16-team (per conference) environment?" the source said. "They can maybe schedule the WAC, the MAC and Sun Belt Conference. The questions are: Is that less than what NBC bargained for and will those schools get to a BCS national championship game? I'd say no."

Meanwhile, there is a strong belief that if the Big Ten is successful in luring Notre Dame that it would no longer be interested in expanding from 11 to 16 teams. Currently, the Big Ten's expansion threat has leagues such as the Big 12 and Big East in complete disarray.

The Big 12 could be looking at dissolution soon if the Big Ten is able to lure Nebraska and Missouri, which would then cause a chain reaction that will see Texas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech and Baylor or Colorado join the Pac-10 schools to form a 16-team conference. The Big East, in which Notre Dame's other sports compete, also likely would implode with Rutgers, Syracuse and Pitt also being targeted for Big Ten expansion.

Most experts agree that the formation of four 16-team conferences would be good only for television partners and fattening the pockets of those leagues. Geographically, there would be major issues plus the cost of travel -- especially for the non-revenue producing sports -- would shoot up significantly.

"The same thing has been stated by the SEC commissioner, the ACC commissioner and myself, that we'd hate to see the landscape change," Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe said last week of the possibility of 16-team leagues. "We think 12 is an optimum number. We are prepared in case we need to change our membership but I think that is the number that works.

"Those of us who have been around the business for a long time feel like that's the number that works. I think it's a huge disservice to the student athlete if it grows to a bigger number where they have to go further and not have as much chance to win championships and have as much access to national championships."

Those worries all go away for now if Notre Dame and the Big Ten are able to come to an agreement.

The addition of Notre Dame would give the Big Ten and the Big Ten Network a football program with a global draw while also giving the league 12 members -- which allows for a lucrative conference championship game.

A phone message for Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick was not returned.

Notre Dame joining a conference also seems to resolve some of the issues that it will face down the road, chief among them are scheduling. Inside a conference, scheduling would not be a problem. And the conference payout of between $20 and $22 million in the Big Ten would be a significant bump from the exclusive NBC deal.

The key for Notre Dame is deciding if joining the Big Ten is worth giving up the mystique of independence.

Big Ten, Notre Dame Are Talking ... Again -- NCAAFB FanHouse

If ND joins and we stick to 12 teams, great, I am cool with that. I won't lie though, the thought of adding Nebraska to the Big Ten is something I'd love to see happen and I think it would still be possible with the conference just going to 14 teams.

On the other hand, not having to add Missouri (and maybe getting less MBBF in Big Ten discussions) would be a perk. :)

I think I prefer going to 16, just because it might somehow lead to playoffs down the road.

CU says no Pac 10 invite so no PC tomorrow:


No announcement pending from CU on conference realignment - Boulder Daily Camera

BTW, talk about bad timing for Colorado:

Different talking heads have said on the radio here have said:

"If the conference loses Missouri, no big deal . . . ." and "I don't want to make anyone mad, but with the way Missouri has acted through this whole thing, I don't think anyone will be too upset."

Saw this elsewhere but it's a nifty little run down on potential Big 10 teams:

Based on that photo

1. Colorado - They seem like a great fit on paper but I believe location is a huge factor.

2. Pittsburgh - A natural partner for Penn State and they're bringing a solid football and basketball program.

3. UConn - If they're invited their association with the Big 10 could land them a AAU membership.

Omaha Paper saying Nebraska to Big Ten as early as Friday. Again, I believe it when I hear something. http://omaha.com/article/20100608/NE...arly-as-friday

Yeah, that would conflict with other reports saying Notre Dame is getting ready to say "yes" to the Big Ten, which would presumably end the Big Ten's expansion efforts at 12 teams.

I'm betting this may be Delaney pushing every button he can to try to get the Irish to commit.

And in potentially good timing for Rutgers, we finished #1 in the APR rankings. Great job by Schiano, the AD, the support staff, and the players.