You got a block in, that's pretty good for a game with 21 players and no public roles revealed.

I put this into the Univeral Translator. Here's what came out:

I suck as the bodyguard. I don't like being the bodyguard. It's a bad situation if I am the bodyguard.

I can't stop laughing at this.

lol

Oh, and I don't agree, clap. You got a block, and that's always a step up for any BG.

Only issue I had was with your non-reveal on your lynch day when you had to go early. That was the time to get that out there.

I hope people continue to try out new mechanics. I think it makes the game better. It's just that when you try something new sometimes it fails. I applaud Danny for trying something new.

i dont know about the bad situation...

i got enough out thwre for telle... and i couldnt protect myself, so i had to be kinda circular!

oh and danny! i liked it! keep up with the good trying! people always bitch abotu my games.....then again, yours was way better than mine :)

The Cubicle might have been the most fun I had as a wolf.

Dude, you already tried this pity party on me when you died. I don't know what more you expected than how you did.

I definitely agree.

pitty party? bleh :P

just dont like being the BG had to try to stay alive, and its less fun when your quiet :P

Alan, I am very sorry for killing you so early. I would have never sent in the kill order had I not been 100% sure you were the seer. I guess you could say you were too right too early. Again I am sorry.

Yes we went BK b/c we thought BK and Abe were lovers.

I stopped following along. What was Abe's role?

Oh, I didn't mind the death at all. You all killed me before I could A) Make anyone pissed off at me and B) before I became deathly wrong...

I'm sorry that the game ended up unenjoyable for you guys though. It was fun for me to read along at least.

He was The Questioner, he could ask about one player during the course of hte game, I think.

I was trying to set Hoops up the entire game. It almost worked today. I think it would have been easier to do without all the information that eventually got out there.

In reference to was sacrifice Telle, Poli and I came to the conclusion early that Telle had been scanned. We used that in thread to support Telle votes and I used it via PMs to find the seer. Martin just made that very difficult and the fact that I honestly believed Telle was a scan pushed me towards alot of kills that didn't make sense and towards people who were not the seer(Pass, Clap, Alan, BK).

I would agree with that completely. I'll always put up a fight, so I think there are more likely easier targets in terms of getting a lynch and the win. But I love the fact that you guys went that way and knew you could deliver the coup-de-grace tonight if you ended up lynching someone else.

Autumn having a bag full of clears really helped lessen the margin for the wolves today. Had he been your nightkill last night, instead of Jackal, I think you win in a walk today.

Had Chief Rum been your NK last night I think it would have been interesting. I think I would have been more or less cleared and it would have set up a very different dynamic.

Had I been your NK last night, I think you guys would have been in a strong position today.

i had a lot of fun this game and am very happy that i got back into WW...i dont know if i will be able to get back into it the way i used to be, as i found myself having a hard time keeping up when we were a full house

danny, i agree with autumn that the no reveal mechanic would have been better if we didnt all have roles, especially when some of them had their own winning conditions.

combine that with the fact that those conditions were to get another villager killed and it really made it difficult to play within the rules

my role was the foreigner...the opposite of The Jackals bigot...i was allowed to scan one player each night to find the Bigot and if i did, i won on my own if i lasted longer than him...so essentially, i had to get everyone to kill a villager and then convince them that i was a villager too without saying what my role was...thats pretty damn hard.. so thanks wolves for getting me the big WIN

I wanted Autumn but others were putting up a fight and to honest at that point I had lost alot of interest in this and was not willing to fight that hard to convince Poli that Autumn should have went.

I will say if Autumn went it would have amplified his list of suspects. Not sure if it would have done so as much he did today, but it would have.

By this, I mean lynch some other villager of course.

Agreed that once Autumn's role was revealed that it would have helped with gaining trust for me and Chief today although there certainly were plenty of people willing to go after me/Lathum that I think it was something that could have been navigated.

Today was tough, but if Autumn follows me on DT instead of going PF then you guys are smoking cigars for the last four hours today.

My first order last night:


After a phone call talk with Poli:


PF:


Me again:



And finally Danny:


That is all the discussion that went into the night kill. Like I said, we were pretty much over it at that point.

There were several times in here when we had SERIOUS discussions of punting this game. There were times when he had a majority of us wanting to punt this game, but Danny kept talking us back into it. There was simply too much information that got out that had absolutely no business getting out. I was trying to let it slide under the radar, however when Autumn put it all together is when we actually decided to punt it. However, once again Danny talked us back into it, however this last time after we had decided to punt it we never really got back into the game mindset and I think the above posted PMs really reflects that.

Great game Danny even with the roles problem. I enjoyed even if I was mainly following along. I was really impressed with the wolves too.

It should be noted that Danny's PM was also in reference to a bouncing PM we had going called "Bullshit Reveals" that by the end probably had close to 30 replies.

I will not post those PM's. There is alot of dirty laundry in them and I don't they need to be aired public. Lets just say there was alot of talk of us quiting, Danny talking us back into it, us bitching, Danny apologizing for the way the game was turning out, and us making demands to once again even out the playing field, which Danny refused. As I said I will not post them b/c they are all very negative and do not need to be aired to the public.

That's messed up -- you guys were doing really well, and it's not like these 'bullshit reveals' gave anyone any amount of trust.

lerriuqs, what was your strategy, anyway?

The initial strategy was to create a runaway vote and make the day useless for information. Then when it came down to one to tie - it was to see what the unknown tiebreaker mechanic was (the arbitrator). Since he was dead, it would have created a no lynch and saved the wolves an extra day since everyone would have been out to get me. I was off by about a minute (I didn't realize the hour was the deadline instead of just before). I figured my role was basically to create havoc...so I did. :)

Also, I didn't find one wolf so I didn't know I was protecting one at the end of the day. Almost found Poli, but he was my second choice on Day 1 (out all day so I put down two).

Dubb, I understand the frustration about people pushing the limits in regards to their roles but I am confused about why you guys were willing to give up. It seems to me you had a legit shot up until todays lynch.

If you don't change your vote, it was over the other way.

not 100% but close.

Had they come after me I would have survived the night kill

Yeah, anybody else and it was. As dubb posted, they criticize one and force a tie and kill in the night.

I personally had put in massive amounts of work behind the scenes and once it was obvious other players were not playing by the rules and all my work was going out the window I lost interest. It was never about winning or losing at that point it was about the fact that we put in massive amounts of work(This was by far my most work intensive wolf game eclipsing the HP game by far in the amount of work I was putting in behind the scenes. If this doesn't mean anything to anyone else I'm sure Saldana will realize what that means.)

All of that work went out the window when the village forgot to play by the rules, the rules that we were binded by up until that point. At that point I sent Danny PMs stating displeasure(to put it mildly) and asking that he either send us every role in the game without names attached so that we can make up roles for ourselves which fit into the theme and conventions he set forth AND more importantly so we don't hint that we have roles that are already in the game. This was a bluff on my part. The second part of that PM is what I had actually expected Danny to do and he never did.

The second part was I asked him if he couldn't do that could he atleast make up a unique role for each one of us that fit the theme/naming conventions and was not a repeat role that is already in the village. When he didn't do that we wanted to punt the game. At that point it was not about winning or losing but having alot of work wasted by the village being unwilling to play by the rules.

As even Danny said, we were punished b/c we didn't cheat the rules.

You would have never been the nightkill. It was Saldana had Hoops been lynched. Saldana was the easy target, he had the exact opposite role as Jackal and we knew it. Was a no risk kill.

FWIW Dubb the reason I didn't do that is because of the info collector role of Autumn, he would have known the roles were not real.

I disagree. Autumn cost us the game today and yesterday. Autumn only got this information due to these "bullshit reveals". If not for that this game ends today or tomorrow in a runaway.

Autumn had the roles yes, but he would have been unable to place that information today if not for Hoops/CR, Lathum, and Jack/Sal's reveals. I will say that out of all of these people Lathum did the best job and really never revealed anything and Lathum was never a topic of conversation when we were discussing reveals with the GM.

I can see where the temptation would have arisen to keep this list close to the vest on Day 5.

Hindsight being 20/20, a reveal there would probably have kept Clap from having to pseudo-reveal as BG that day. But that would not have stopped the brutal wolf. The edge would have been having the BG around, provided the wolves didn't decide to take out Clap that night as a cleared villager (instead of me, with added bonus of getting Chief as well).

I was thinking that I could use me knowing that Telle was a wolf without the wolves knowing that I knew to get at least some hints towards finding another wolf.

As I said after being night-killed, I was going to reveal on Day 6 if I had managed to survive Night 5 - had thought about revealing on Day 5, but thought that it was worth taking the chance that I would survive through the night (the reactions both in-game and post-game suggest that this wasn't the worst call - just got unlucky).

The deadlines weren't ideal for me, as the only 'day' deadline I was awake for was last Friday's - meant that I had to put in my scan order before the lynch.

My scans (with backups) were:

Telle (Autumn)
hoopsguy (dubb93)
Passacaglia (The Jackal)
claphamsa (The Jackal)
The Jackal (DaddyTorgo)

It would have been a different game if I'd gone with my second option on Day 2... I also had some thoughts about scanning PackerFanatic late on (for the same reasons that I put a couple of votes on lerriuqs on days 3/4 - to try to get the UTR guy to contribute more).

My thinking early on was to stay out of the Lathum/EagleFan/PurdueBrad shenanigans - not much point in scanning someone when there's a pretty good chance that they're going to get lynched anyway (making the information useless).

I'll admit to being very surprised to find out who the wolves were when Danny sent me the list of roles - thought for sure that Poli was clean (because I knew that Telle was a wolf), and had a few other players ahead of the other wolves as suspects (as you can tell from The Jackal appearing several times on the list above).

i agree to a degree, but i also think that with everyone having some degree of info or role that made it difficult. if it was just slightly different where not everyone had roles I think the wolves would have been totally in control at the point the game was ended. The problem arose from the fact that everyone had roles and we all started poking and prodding at that.

then again, theoretically that could have provided some degree of cover for the wolves too, claiming that they had roles and were villagers.

i can see how it cuts both ways, but really - you wolves played a hell of a game. you were fairly well buried there at the end - i think had the setup been a little different that dubb or poli bring it home.

i never gave out the info on what my role was and people were still curious about it. i understand your wanting danny to provide you guys with cover roles or whatever and i don't think that's unreasonable, but it also wouldn't seem that hard to just be very "i have a role. it doesn't help anymore." type of thing

hmm - fwiw my role was that i could scan for the seer + the sympathizer, but i never found either of them before they bought the farm.

I friggin told you guys PF was a wolf.

:)

:lol:

Aren't you the same guy that voted me three times? I wouldn't have listened to you either! :p

Yeah.. I made some dumb votes this game, but my votes for you were more self-preservation in case you were a wolf than actually thinking you were a wolf. I wanted to vote PF all along. :)

Out of curiosity - why? Other than the fact that I was a lot more UTR than I usually am.

You're certainly right that the semi-reveals combined with my role is what gave us all the ammunition at the end. Lathum's actually was easy for me to piece together despite not giving a lot of info, but what threw me off was that the "votes" for him were hidden so I wasn't sure if he was just making that up.

Without the semi-reveals I might have, for instance, noticed that CR and Hoops voted together and suspected their role but there wasn't much else I would have been able to figure out. I should have been able to guess ABe's, actually, and was kicking myself after the fact that I somehow missed that and got off of him too late.

I don't think we would have stood a chance without the roles, although I do feel like we tagged Telle and EF all on our own. After that though I don't see us getting anywhere.

This ought to be a really, really good reminder that a voting record that seems too good to be true is probably just as dangerous as a really poor voting record.

The thing that the wolves did well - particularly Dubb - was have their "good" votes in good contexts as well. I don't think I've had a game where I've spent as much time looking at the timing of the votes and the potential for unvotes down the stretch as I did with this one. And those factors made his votes look even better. That is awfully impressive considering that there was not much of a precedent for that intensive a review process.

I followed along after my death and tried to guess the remaining wolves. I didn't figure out Dubb was a wolf until Danny told me. I think he did a good job of burying his vote like you said.

If I remember correctly, Dubb did that in a previous game too by switching right at the deadline when he was a wolf in order to nail a fellow wolf. After he did that, it was hard for me to be convinced that he was bad.

Telle and Eaglefan I finally figured out after I put together in my head what actually happened on the day 1 vote. (Since my vote on day 1 was the assumption that someone was covering for ntn, namely Telle.. and once Ntn showed up as good, it still didn't give me a good explanation for how the middle of the day happened. So the only logical conclusion for me from that was to look at Eaglefan.)

After I died, there was a period that I thought Passacaglia was a wolf for sure because of how he was playing. Later when I found he was the duke, that explained it a bit more to me.


Edit (now that I can edit!): I was a bit frustrated that days went by without anyone pushing for Telle and think it was pretty funny that for a day or two there, only the wolves were actually pushing for Telle, everyone else wanted to go elsewhere. The only reason I felt Eaglefan was likely bad was because of Telle. If I didn't suspect Telle being bad, I wouldn't have voted for Eaglefan on day 2 (as I said before I died).

I think we all sort of kid-gloved Telle after her speaking up early in the game, and maybe that was to our detriment, but I think - i dunno...at least me was like "well telle hasn't played a lot lately...i don't want to vote her out quick even for legit reasons if it'll seem to her it was because of her speaking up early on d1"

That makes sense, I suppose. :) Would be mean to get rid of someone who hadn't played much lately before day 3! (I'm just playing!) :)

Not to criticize the wolves, who played a great game, but if Poli puts his vote on PF in that last night, I think they win.

It was the combination of UTR and at least one post that you made early on, I can go back and find those one or two posts if you like, but the timing and tone of them pinged me, and that in combination with the UTR and the vote you put on EF (the fact it was late, before PB voted) had me looking your way. You didn't do anything to give yourself away, just a gut call from me that ended up being right.

Understandable. Hence why I didn't say much, haha. I don't play wolf that often and I am usually a terrible liar to begin with. I felt that my typical UTR-play went well either way.

I'm glad some of you guys had fun :)

Was an interesting game Danny, I'm cool with the idea of hidden roles but being restricted in what you can and can't say for multiple people in the same game is tough. Definitely had fun though.

What's the over/under on the number of PM's Danny received during the game?

would have been even more, but Chief/Hoops moved their discussion/questions to email, so I got a lot of emails too

Less than I did during Marvel? :)

Chief and I e-mailed him, but I would say that he had maybe 10-15 questions from us over the course of the game. He probably saw another 50 or so e-mails where Chief and I discussed doing things that turned out to be dumb when we did them.

For good or bad, I think this game will be remembered lol.

I bet Abe has you beat from Dungeon, hoops.

Maybe not - neither Alan nor I played in that game.

I'm guessing BK's Survivor game had a huge amount as well.

But he had three? (I don't even remember now :cool:) deadlines a day in which every participant sent a PM plus the influx of questions, I'd bet its close.

But I suppose since it wasn't technically WW..

Well, it was on the WW board ... I think it is great when people try new ideas, as long as people know what they are getting into at the start of the game.

Certainly gave people a chance to interact without being at each other's throats.

I had almost 200 a day and had to clean out my box constantly.

Then you probably had us by virtue of # of days. Marvel volume was about the same but your game ran about two weeks longer.

I miss being the Shadow King.

Least popular WW mechanic ever?

Okay, so I might be the only one who misses it. :D

Not even close. Least popular WW mechanic ever still is and will always be.. "No reveal upon death"

Someone should seriously run a game with random reveal upon death and just not tell anyone about that mechanic until after the game. That should would screw with people. :D

That would likely go over just as well as the game where I made everyone a wolf without telling them that everyone else was one too... except two players... I don't think Saldana talked to me for a month after that.

He was really pissed.

I remember the phone call I got vividly.

No doubt and nothing is even close, it was easily the most pointless game ever.

Who was the genius that came up with that anyway?

douche that thang...

OMG..i think i created some new swear words that day...all the ones i already new didnt quite cover how pissed i was