Go easy, gentle Vronsky. This kind of thing does not end well.

Happened to me once

I was getting played the whole time


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Never.

The person being abused is the one that has to take the steps. You can help them take those steps, but do.not.interfere. It will go very, *very* badly.

Hat tip for the Tolstoy reference BTW

What happened? If I may ask.

Not the same scenario but this flere drop is amazing


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How to (successfully) hit on a coworker.
 

… in essence:

Worked with a pretty girl when I was 20
Flirted
Started to be attracted
Told me her home life/husband was abusive
We got closer
Eventually she asked for money to file for divorce
Hesitant and didn’t give her the money as I began to grow suspicious that she was lying
Eventually found out she was also ‘hanging out’ with another person
Realized the husband was a nice meek fellow being run over
I iced her out
Then I went and spilled the beans to husband about everything she was doing to clear my kharma account

It was exciting, immoral, and bad

Taught me a lesson


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I checked the datestamp on that and it was 18 years ago, Flasch. 18!

We’re all grown up


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First thing I thought of when I read this latest turn (a song of course):

https://youtu.be/Y3vrkOqo8A8

We're all older. I'm not sure about grown up

But, man, a flere diagram. That takes me back!

SI

Now we just need a NFL WiP!

Did a mid-week walk this week. Met some interesting people. They were different from the normal fare. One cute woman I was interested in. Maybe I'll pursue her if she shows up to future walks.

“Pursue” sounds weird to me for some reason


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So I'm really depressed right now. I have a coworker that's with an allegedly abusive husband (she claims he gets drunk and says "I'll kill you") and I'm watching youtube videos of woman who give their life savings to Nigerian men. Yet the US government gives almost a billion dollars to the government.

Where is there a place for me in this world.

Yes I'm drunk and I'm depressed. And I watched the Lions fail last night.

If only the US didn't spend 1.5 trillion dollars on the F-35 program and spent it on sex dolls. I feel I would be much better off.

Also I just found out the my representative in Congress is a Republican :(

Well perhaps you can take advantage of this and join The Right Stuff which is a Conservative dating site! Apparently there are a lot of conservatives in your area.

I have no idea what you're talking about and how it deals with my midlife crises.

Honestly

I think you’ve focused on the wrong things.

If you just really focus on making yourself publicly happy for 6 months I can almost guarantee you’ll have dates and girls. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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Something for you to consider.

[url="https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/8/4/inside-a-700-year-old-groom-market-in-indias-bihar-state"]

Except that market is literally dying out and attendance is sparse compared to how it used to be

This, pretty much. Happiness breeds confidence. Confidence breeds attraction.

Focusing on getting a woman breeds desperation. Desperation destroys attraction.

There's a reason why so many people get into relationships and marriages after they've stopped looking. They focus on being happy by themselves and that leads to what Flasch described

I was single before I met my wife about 10 years ago. I tried Internet dating, worked really well. Just found it to be a numbers game. Dropped 5 short but well thought out messages to women I fancied every night. Averaged around 2 dates per week within 2 weeks. Within 6 to 8 weeks 2 new dates with a couple of 2nd/3rd dates, so out 4 times a week.

Just hitting a strike rate of 2 out of 35 I felt like a college campus stud within no time with all the options. I did find a big difference going on a dating sight I had to pay on rather than a free one. One of the best investments I ever made. Met my wife who was a physio with her own place and no kids. Having dated a lot of people it was easy to see when something special came along.

I do agree confidence breeds attraction.

But IMO you do also need to proactively "pursue" vs thinking it'll happened by itself.

No doubt. If you don't you will just get what you are given. Always makes sense to go after who you really want rather than settle for who likes you. Expect knock backs, happens to all of us.

Honestly, for someone who struggles with self confidence, dating sites is probably the best option. I would never have gone to a club and "picked up". But I was willing to write a million messages to women on a dating site, and get a small number of responses back. That's part of being a guy. You have to work for your dates. Women have it much easier, just put up a profile and start screening the good ones, LOL.
But the good news is that once you arrange a date, you at least know you have something in common with them, and there's a "chance". Doesn't mean it'll turn out, but if it doesn't, you move onto the next one. Unless you live in a small town, there's always a "next one" online. After a while, I just started to be myself, and if they didn't like it , it was their loss and not mine. That's when the process started working a lot better, and I eventually met my wife.

On the bright side, it was only pre-season.

LOL no. Just no.

Response rate by women to men? Less than 1%. And the Pareto Principle holds true for online dating metrics - 80% of the messages/responses from women to men goes to the top 20% of men. Online dating is a sucker's game that actually exacerbates the problem, as the lack of responses/contacts only feeds into the sense of low self-confidence and self-esteem.

Your anecdotal experience is the exception, not the rule when looking at the aggregate data

Ah, quite a sweeping statement there. Not saying the facts are wrong. But.

You go in expecting to have a 1/100 strike rate. Your head has to be in the right place going in. When you get a date, again, don't have high expectations. If you have to write 100 messages to get a date, so what. England is dense population wise so those numbers are not a killer, granted it depends where you live.

Couple of key points to making a success of online dating, from my reasonably extensive experience...

1. Pick the right site. Pay money, don't use free sites. You will be dealing with women who are serious. Plus, more often than not, women with money. Women who are "serious" will be more inclined to go for personality. Sure they are almost as shallow as us, but I believe it will help squash that a little. There's me generalizing, some women are actually not shallow at all. Kind of brings me on to my next point.

2. NobodyHere comes across as a smart guy who writes well. Big advantage. Most educated women will prefer a guy who can put a sentence together and are smart enough to recognise a bullshit cut and paste message over a well thought out personal, but light and not too stalkerish one.

Like any hobby, mission or project. There are angles. There are ways to swing this your way if you try harder and play smarter than the next guy.

I am happily married going on 15 years.

That being said I would be really curious to see what kind of response I would get on a dating site ( I never would sign up just to see ). A buddy has been on one since his divorce and said there are tons of girls in to beards and tattoos, both I have in abundance. I'm 6-2 and in decent shape for pushing 50. I think I would do OK.

I've had the same thought, just from reading a few threads on this board from time to time. Entirely out of curiosity - I'd never even sign up, but in an alternate universe, it would be interesting to see how it would go. I mean, I haven't dated since 1991. I had never even heard of the internet or email when my wife and I went on our first date. Dating itself is a weird concept 30+ years later, let alone online.

I'm the opposite. Every time I read about modern dating experience, I think to myself "thank god I'm not out there" and more power and respect to those who are

SI

I guess I am an anomaly as far as dating sites go for sure. After divorcing my first wife I had dalliances with co-workers and women I met at clubs and even a mom of one of my players, none of which are really conducive to anything beyond the causal hookup/FWB (in most cases at least)

So, when I was looking for something more permanent finally I signed up on Match.com. I was on there for several weeks, just browsing, never paying to join, which is required for contacting someone (at least for men) I kept going back on one profile that I found intriguing. Finally I said screw it, paid the 29.95 to join, sent her a message, we had a good conversation soon after and agreed to meet for lunch.

20 years later (17 married) we are still happily together and she was the only person I ever contacted, so 1 for 1 and still the best 29.95 I have ever spent LOL.

Obviously there was a degree of luck in there, but I was also very cognizant of red flags in profiles I browsed when I found a woman physically attractive, while also being aware of potentially outkicking my coverage, which honestly I did anyway, but for me it worked.

Oh. I have zero desire be back out there. I am just curious what kind of response I would get. I don't want to actually go through that meat grinder even though I never really had any issues. It just sounds exhausting at this point

Oh, I have no interest in the actual trying to date someone that way, don't get me wrong. Even if I suddenly found myself single, I'm not sure I'd do it. I'm just saying, the curiosity of my worth as a "free agent" is mildly interesting to me, having just turned 51, in decent shape, stable job, etc.

It's probably more of the thought that, unlike my teenage years when trying to engage with a woman seemed like climbing Mount Everest, it would be like fish jumping into the boat by contrast.

I'm afraid if I were suddenly single, I would probably stay permanently single. As much as I love my wife, I do wonder if I would even want to marry again. I think I would be happy with a roommate I get along with so I wouldn't be lonely. Of course, I'm ugly enough it may not be by choice.

I've had the same thought. You know what it would be for me? The entire process/work involved with starting at ground zero in a new relationship and trying to get as comfortable with another human being as my wife and I are with each other. I'm just not sure it's worth it at my age, because I don't think I'd ever get there, or it would be too exhausting to try.

It's like typing an entire paper and losing it in a power outage. I can re-do the entire thing, but mentally, I can't get over the fact that I have to do it again.

I’d just hire help for the kids and be single for a while

Not single to play the field but single because… so much work


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I would 100% stay single. Tranny prostitutes only.

As someone who was married for 26 years and now 9 years single, I have given up on dating sites and am resigned to being single for the rest of my life. My success rate on responses was minimal and I didn't have any interest in those that did respond. I value my alone time, even when I was married, so I am pretty happy with my decision.

When I suddenly found myself single again a while back, it was a very different experience. I found myself able to read body language and cues and the dating world made sense.

I preferred the free sites. They make their money from page interactions, so their market is providing a positive, engaging experience. The pay sites make their money directly from the subscription fees, so their market is more focused. The complaints I heard, over and over, were about the number of fake profiles (male and female) and time wasted messaging dormant accounts. People who are "serious" about dating might try either one or both. You can generally tell from a profile who is serious, as long as it's an active profile.

I kept a spreadsheet tracking my approach. Some demographic details, information about anyone I tried to contact. I found that if I stuck to my own age group and education level (by far the two most important factors) and made contact using a short message, but one that indicated that I read the profile, I had a very high response rate (about 50%). I decided early on to limit myself to one new message per week - if it went unanswered, so be it.

The rest of it was rather subjective. A couple of dates, at most, should indicate whether there's any chance of a relationship. Follow Kenny Rogers' advice - know when to fold 'em. If you waste time sticking with something that isn't working fantastic after a couple of dates, think of how bad it's going to feel after a couple of months. Don't be afraid to be the bad guy - the sooner the better. Don't be afraid to tell yourself the truth - introspection leads to growth.

Some things I found out surprised me. Physical attraction was far more important than I gave it credit for. But mostly that it's essential to have a lot in common from a values perspective, whether that's religion or education or budgeting or simply how you treat people.

My second marriage, as we're now in our second decade together, is a world different from my first - and that's because we really got to know each other and were together for the right reasons.

I liked the dating interlude in between, because it was fun getting to know people and gaining the confidence in my social skills. But it is work, if you're going to have a successful experience, and somewhat humbling. If you go in thinking some beautiful thing half your age is just dying to meet you, well, you'll get no responses unless you're obviously very wealthy, and you'll never learn what really works for you.

I'd advise not even looking at profiles outside of five years of your age either way. Also spend some time writing a profile that talks about what you're looking for in dating - write it for the person you want to meet, not the many that you don't want to meet.

Meetup groups aren't bad, either. I didn't find them great for dating (only one relationship the whole time, though that was nice for my confidence as well), but they were great for breaking the monotony of living alone.

50% response rate, damn. There is your top 20% guy Izulde mentioned.

Totally different experience on pay sites though. It opened the door to professional, educated women on 6 figure salaries for me. Free sites was largely married women (its complicated), and those who are struggling for money. Oh, don't forget those who just want an ego boost. Just my experience.

On any decent site it will say when the profile was last active.

Totally agree on the age thing. I prefer younger women and it dropped my reply rate when I went that direction.

Never ran into the married issue. Certainly, a few who were divorced too recently, and even one who was widowed far too young, and needed much more time to heal (she brought a photo album on our second date, which would have been funny, but it's not too hard to imagine what she was going through).

I don't think I was unusually successful. I just spent some time figuring out who to contact and how to do it. You don't really know a thing until you meet someone in person, though, so you can't take not getting a response personally. What does feel bad is a first meeting that's so painfully awkward or boring that you start questioning your entire approach.

Though you get some stories with the bad dates. Like the chemistry professor, who I thought would be a great match... she spent the entire dinner talking about who knows what, it was so bad I had to tune out - I could not get a word in anyway. Then she called me within ten minutes of my getting home to read me my astrology forecast. She was genuinely excited that our charts indicated something or other. It was endless. I should have had her redesign the chemistry part of FOF. Though who would think a chemistry professor would believe in astrology? It was maybe the only time I've ever cut off a conversation and admitted I wasn't going to call again.

Did anyone expect that Jim DIDN'T keep a spreadsheet on his approach? :D

I was actually disappointed, I would have expected a mySQL database instead of xls.

Maybe I was in the top 20%. I dunno. I feel like I was an okay catch at the time. Good education, decent shape, decent job (for my age). 5'9", not tall but not short. Apparently from what I've heard, height is VERY important. Wish I knew why that was such a high priority. Kinda ridick. Imagine a guy stating that he'll only date women with DD.

For me it was 100 messages, 10 responses, 3 dates, 1 relationship. Things seemed to fit into those ratios. Sometimes it felt like it took forever between responses, and sometimes I had multiple communications going at once.

I'd put a mostly generic post that I'd reuse, but would add in specific lines related to their profile, to show I actually read it and cared. But I wouldn't craft a 2 page masterpiece individually, ain't got time for that.

Also did anybody think about TCY recruiting when they read Jim's post? LOL. Oh, 10 calls left this week. What's her education aptitude? Hopefully she's in the same state. Is she visiting any other prospects this week?

I don't know, I bet most of us have some sort of criteria.

Mine is probably worse than most. Never dated anyone even slightly overweight in my life. 5-3 to 5-9 a must. No kids, even though I have a 14 year old daughter myself. Must be financially solid - not about to half what I have accumulated. Not proud of that, sounds pretty bad on paper. Embarrassing even. But it is what it is.

It does seem acceptable for a woman to say she wouldn't date a short man, bald man or man with bad teeth, yet only on the Internet would I be brave enough to say I wouldn't date an overweight woman.

I am 6-1 and a solid 215 lbs but very average looking in the face. I never had anyone message me that I can recall. Always me making the first move. I suspect a pretty boy face is what would really have them knocking at your door. But I guess all of us are different in what we go for.

I stand 5'3 and have had several women tell me that I'm just not tall enough. It's rather disheartening.