Thomkal's reference to Anxiety in #462 reads as speculation to me, I don't think he had any special insight since he was referring to the post count/jail theory from last night.

But ntn's account is far more interesting and I am eager to see what Anxiety has to say about that. Too bad Chief is not going to be around before deadline, that really throws a wrench into things.

I have nothing to report from last night's results.

For now,

Elect Saldana

SnDvls: I don't think we're going to hear from Chief before the deadline.

Spleen: I agree that is a possiblity. I think it's entirely possible for any two of Lathum, Anxiety, Chief, and ntn to be Cowboys and to have created some sort of mutually protective scheme for each other.

How come you are more suspicious of NTN and Anxiety than CR?

You can vote to lynch anyone that is in jail. You are only limited by who the candidates are. You can vote for all of the people in jail if you wish.

How come you believe Anxiety above all the other suspicious actors?

In that case, add

VOTE LATHUM for lynch as well.

they all are banking on CR to bail them out, who won't be on to confirm or deny, just struck me as odd.

It seems there may be more townies out of their house than cowboys, each night. So, I don't see being out of your house as bad. You are either a Cowboy or a townie performing a beneficial role.

I would rather leave Anxiety free and give someone a chance to clear him.

I'm working 2-10:30pm tonight so I def have to vote before I go to work. I may change these before I leave if more info comes out but...

Lynch Goldeneagle
Elect Saldana
Jail Anxiety

AlanT, can both townies and cowboys end up getting the mortician job?

For gameplay purposes, the mechanism that decides who receives the occupation of mortician is left unsaid. For CoT purposes, you'll have to assume it could be anyone in the town.

Well, if it could be anyone I was going to suggest the mortician simply announce the results of their autopsy (roles, I assume). If anyone can get the role, the cowboys would likely not just kill the mortician as it would indicate a cowboy has the role in a round when the mortician is killed. That would allow us to get the info out quickly.

It is sounding more like the mortician is always a townie, but we are not going to get to know that for sure.

I'm finding it interesting to see who trusts who out of the Lathum/Chief/Anxiety/NTN grouping. Not sure how this will shake out later in the game, but I like having groupings of players this early in the game.

I'm really hoping Anxiety has something to add on this when he shows up today, otherwise it seems like our conversation is going to be very, very speculative.

To answer some of the allegations. you are right that just because that Lathum saw the same thing I did, does not neccesarily make him good. IT does give him a benefit of the doubt with me. I realize that both townspeople and cowboys were out and about. The reason that Chief Rum is more likely to be good because of this, is the fact that someone else was killed. SO it at least appears that Chief Rum did not kill Thomkal. I assume the same thing right now of Lathum as well.
As far as Chief Rum clearing anyone. I was not assuming he would one way or another. I came forward because I did not know when CR would be back and I wanted to give everyone the benifit of my knowledge.

Cronin, any strong reason to believe Rum is bad? Your votes suggest you feel this way compared to the other candidates in the Night 1 gathering.

this doesn't necessarly mean CR is good. If we choose to believe Lathum he did his night action then was jailed by saldana's night action. CR could have easily been able to go out and make a kill if he was a cowboy after the two visits. Heck he might have been waiting to kill Anxiety and the two knocks on the door suprised him. I'll still be waiting for Anxiety and CR for more clarification.

Not that I think it's going to end up mattering but...

Unlynch Goldeneagle

I have alot on my plate at work today so I will not be able to defend myself. I also have plans afterwork and do not really have time to play tonight. But if you want to lynch me, go ahead. You would be making a mistake but I personally think it is BS I am in jail anyway.

Lynch votes so far, as of Post #518. Need 11 to lynch someone:

Lathum 4 -- Hoopsguy (481), St Cronin (493), SnDvls (499), Gram (506)
GoldenEagle 2 -- Hoopsguy (481), Gramm (500)

No offense to Golden Eagle, as I completley respect the "I don't have time" thing, but at least making some defense would have been nice before going away. And a vote. I hope he comes back and gives some semblanace of a defense. I mean I don't need to be posting as frequently as I do, but it would be nice to have something to look at and say "yeah he's a good guy".

Vote Golden

See reasoning above when i say

Lynch Golden

I am still awaiting more information about Lathum, via Anxiety, before I go in a direction there.

since I have a while that I will be away from the 'puter. Iwill throw my vote out there.

Lynch GE
Free Lathum

Question in terms of the vote count posts - do you want me to track the Jail/Free votes as well? Remember, they are not binding and Saldana gets to make his own decisions on this. But tracking them may help Saldana have hard numbers on what the people want him to do.

Similarly, I'm not inclined to track the Sheriff votes unless people are voting for another Sheriff. A vote for Saldana is the same as a non-vote, as stated by Alan T. So if someone is voting for a new Sheriff I would include those in my tallies.

Well honestly I would like all the votes tracked as it gives me a sense of who has made up their mind, more or less, and who is still thinking things over/failed to vote. So even though my voting for saldana is effectively meaningless, I think it's useful for people to know that I have basically decided that I'm sticking with saldana for the day. Might not matter much today when there is no talk of replacing saldana, but would certainly matter on a day when there is any talk of a new sheriff.

Jail Anxiety
Jail Spleen1015
Vote Golden Eage

I would explain my choices now, but I have to get to class. I will explain them later.

Vote Golden Eagle

Revoting since I mispelled his name in my first post.

well you'll have to let us know what you are voting GE for too. to be lynched or freed?

dola - hom much later? 1 hour, 6 hours?

I agree with this.

On anther note...

As time goes bad, I am not feeling good about what is going on with Lathum, ntndeacon, Anxiety, and CR. I just feel like we're being setup to get rid of villagers. I really think we need to look hard at Lathum and ntndeacon. This is only my 3rd game, but I have a hard time believing that anyone would be so forth coming with all of this information. I'm not seeing anything that changes my mind, but I am seeing more that convinces me. Maybe it is just a CoT, but I can't believe that at this point in the game.

I just think it's more suspicious that he was hanging out in somebody's house than that somebody was not at home. To me, it suggests that house may have been a meeting place.

But what throws me cronin, as that was my first guess too, is that rum is there but NOT anxiety. I mean if Anxiety is hosting a meeting did he go get peaches or something and just leave CR there?

This screams wolf vote to me. Everyone else is waiting to hear from Anxiety before making up their minds. Yet, you vote for him. I haven't done anything to be suspicious of. No one else is looking in my direction. Why are you? Could you be a wolf scared at my assumptions on ntndeacon and Lathum? GE is just a bandwagon vote in an attempt to disguise yourself.

Jail votes, as of Post #531:
Anxiety 3 -- SnDvls (499), Chubby (509), Racer (525)

Chief Rum 2 -- St Cronin (493), Gramm (500)

NTN 1 -- SnDvls (499)

Spleen 1 -- Racer (525)

Going forward, I'll publish lynch and jail votes together. Just wanted to remind people that only the lynch votes are binding. Which may have ramifications in terms of noting bad guy voting patterns for jail. Lynch, I'm sure they will fight hard for their people. Jail? Maybe they don't dig in as hard since it is Saldana and not the masses who make this call.

Maybe Anxiety was out killing? Or maybe Anxiety was ... occupied, either with a brothel girl, or with some booze, or with something else. I don't have any special insight.

I will say that I am sure that the tale is true, as presented by Lathum and ntndeacon. What it means requires interpretation, though.

It would be pretty unlikely (and dumb) for two bad guys to present the same lie about what happened at night.

Cronin, if you are sure the tale is true then why did you vote to lynch Lathum? How do you interpret Lathum (who you voted to lynch) encountering Chief Rum (who you voted to jail) and having these events largely validated by ntndeacon (who did not factor in your votes)?

My rationale for lynching Lathum is, it gives us information. He has vouched for CR, with a story which I think makes it more likely that CR is bad. So if Lathum comes up cowboy, it's a good bet that CR is, too.

So how does it make CR bad? maybe anxiety is the brothel girl and CR's vice is women and CR was going for a booty call? Just trying to see how this makes CR bad or more bad vs. Anxiety from your point of view.

hoops - see above for my rationale

I think it's virtually certain that either Lathum or ntndeacon is villager, and it's certainly possible that both are. I can understand not wanting to lynch Lathum, but for heaven's sake let's leave him in jail.

CR was in somebody's house, answering the door. Anxiety could have been doing any number of things. He could have been buying bread. He could have been on a fishing trip.

CR's presence in the wrong place strikes me as much more sinister than Anxiety's absence.

I'm waiting to see how Anxiety fits into this before going too far down this path, Cronin. We are leading charmed lives if we bag two Cowboys (one already in jail) out of this affair.

Absolutely agree with this as a fall-back position. If we lynch one person today Saldana can still put two new people in jail tonight. But if we don't lynch anyone then Saldana can only put one new person in jail.

I definitely want to see a lynching take place today to get us more information. If there are not any reasons not to, I don't mind seeing two lynchings ... we didn't get one on Day 1 so in a sense we are already a day behind.

Well here's the thing: If I'm breaking into somebody's house, I don't answer the door. If I've been invited in, though, and the guy isn't around I'd answer the door. So this makes me think Rum had permission to be there.

But again this is all speculation which could be clarified by Anxiety.

Well here's the thing: If I'm breaking into somebody's house, I don't answer the door. If I've been invited in, though, and the guy isn't around I'd answer the door. So this makes me think Rum had permission to be there.

But again this is all speculation which could be clarified by Anxiety.

I definitely agree that Anxiety can shed a lot of light on this mystery. I'm just getting my theory out there, because the convential wisdom that was developing is, to me, wholly unfounded.

you also have to look at not only did he answer the door, but he did it twice.

An even better point.

What do you think it means that CR had permission to be there?

LYNCH ALANT...because I'm probably not allowed to lynch anyone else, not playing and all.

SIDE NOTE - Want to talk about destroyed post counts, look at mine. :)

Tyrith, had seen you lurking ... hope to play with you in another game soon.

And I thought I lost alot of posts :) Good to see you Tyrith :)

finally anxiety is here to clear up some info I hope

Hmmm - lots of stuff going on. I think Lathum is innocent, actually. In fact, I think I know exactly what Lathum's role is.

I'm fairly comfortable role-revealing because it should help Lathum, but hurt ntndeacon.

I'm the actor. Each night, I can choose someone to mimic. Last night, I chose to mimic Chief Rum. The benefit of this is that if someone tries to come for me, they'll see the other person and leave. The disadvantage is that if I memic someone who is targeted by anyone, then I might get their target. So if I had mimiced Thomkal last night, I'd likely be dead now.

When Lathum came, and saw me as Chief Rum, he was honest and nice and friendly. ntndeacon came later and was mean and unfriendly. I saw Lathum with an item that I beleive indicates his role, and knowing his role, I beleive we should A) not vote to lynch Lathum and B) free Lathum tonight.


-Anxiety

Well, that clears everything up. Not.

unjail Anxiety
jail ntndeacon

off to work

I still think we shouldn't lynch anyone in jail so I won't vote to lynch anyone.

can I ask why you chose CR to mimic? anything that jumped out at you for the choice?

We need ntndeacon to reveal his role, now, I think.

Well that clears up my confusion last night. I did apologize for disturbing "Chief Rum" after peeking into your house looking for you ,Anxiety. I don't know if you noticed the item I had or not. But that should give you an idea on my role as well.

unvote lynch lathum

for now ...

Fine if it is the consensus I will role reveal after my next class. I would prefer to keep it hidden, but iwill leave it to y'all to decide whether or not ishould.

unlynch lathum
unjail anxiety
unjail ntn
free lathum

as it seems more info is now coming out I guess...looks like it will be a long day of decisions...good thing it's slow at work right now.

heres what i can add to this as the town sheriff:

i arrested GE first....he was at his house in the northeast part of town, didnt seem to be fixin to have any callers, and came in all quiet like when i told him to.

then i went to Lathum's...he lives in the southeast part of town. he wasnt there when i banged on the door, so i headed off to look for him...found him coming back towards his place from the west. this places him in the southwest, which is where Thomkal bought it, which troubles me a bit.

question to alan, is there any info as to how thomkal got killed, i.e. shot, stabbed, strangled, drowned, etc)

as far as their defenses go, i think i have been over time one of the most understanding people in the history of werewolf about IRL things getting in the way, often being the player to stand up for the absent person, but that dont change the fact that people that aint around for days at a time aint helpin us none.

at this point, i ain't ready to vote until i hears from Alan bout my question...i'll be home/back on around 5:30

I didn't think he would be killed or jailed last night, so I mimiced him. He was the safest choice I could think of.

For information on the cause of death, you'll likely have to ask the person who buried him. I bet he knows.

Stop. Okay ntndeacon, I looked more closely at the pm, and read into it a bit. I read the role list, and I think you are right. Nobody ask ntndeacon to reveal, I think he's good to go for now.

Although, ntndeacon, I've seen too many westerns where your role ends up being a bad guy :)

How could Lathum have been knocking on my door looking for me and killing Thomkal at the same time?

My pm last night does say that I hear gunshots after I am visited by both people, to be fair.

of ntn & lathum would you consider one over the other to be the killer based on what they had in their hand? not say either is or was just your feeling on what they had without telling us what they had

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

Sounds like Lathum needs to tell us why he was in the SW.

I based my comment on the fact that Racer is the only one to publically suspect anything about me.

There is no need to be suspicious of me. I'm a villager for sure.

If I had to choose one of them to be the killer despite the fact that both were at my door that night, well, I think I know there roles, so I'd just be guessing which role is more likely to be a bad guy. I'm not sure that's something I feel comfortable doing.

After reviewing my pm description several times, I am positive I know ntndeacon's role and pretty sure I know Lathum's. So, if I had to chose, I'd chose LAthum as the badd guy simply because I have more confidence in my knopwledge of ntndeacon's role that I do Lathum's role, if that makes sense.

fair answer, thanks

I guess my next question is

Did anyone else hear gun shots last night?

Disclaimer: This is my first werewolf game so I could be totally off base by my accusations. My only only werewolf experience that I have comes from the Beginner's werewolf game which I followed rather closely.

Also,

Lynch Golden Eagle



I found it odd at the time that Spleen accused us three of possibly being Cowboys. Here he says that we should apply logic yet both Chief and I applied logic for our choice as sheriff. He never accused anyone else who said their pick was random. Therefore, I think Spleen may have searched for a decent sized group of people that he could casually suggest were Cowboys and hope someone would take off with that suggestion. I believe Golden Eagle used similar tactics in the Beginner's game.

I believe the Cowboys did not go after Barkeep last night because they were afraid he would be protected and they wanted to be sure to get a kill. However, I was a bit surprised they did not go after Spleen when no one else suggested so many people as possible Cowboys. By killing Spleen, it would have greatly raised suspicion on whether or not Barkeep, Chief, and I are Cowboys and I don't think any of us are.

I also thought that Spleen was very quick to defend Anxiety in post 495 and steer the conversation elsewhere on who to put in jail today.

I voted to put Anxiety in jail based on what Lathum said and because of Spleen's strong defense against putting him in jail.

I also found it strange that Spleen is using such strong language such as "screams" when I voted to put him in jail.

I voted to lynch Golden Eagle today because I want to put both Spleen and Anxiety in jail today. Four people can't be in jail and once and since Golden Eagle hasn't posted hardly at all, he isn't really helping the villagers.

One hole in my theory though is that Anxiety has since posted that he heard gunshots last night which I did also.

I admit that I am fast to start posting theories. I do this to see if there is anyone else out there who picked up on some of the same things I did. This doesn't make me a bad guy though.

You can get me thrown in jail and lynched if you want. You'll see after it is all said and done that you wasted your vote(s) jailing and lynching me.

When you're the one holding the gun, you can't help but hear them.

Looks like we don't need to hear from Chief Rum on this after all. Nice plot twist, Alan.

UNVOTE LYNCH LATHUM

Well it appears that we have a little 3 way COT developing between Lathum, Anxiety, and ntn. Most interesting indeed.

Dola:
Just to be clear I am ready to suggest that not only is Lathum not executed, but with Anxiety basically vouching for him that Lathum should be released from jail.

With that mystery out the way I think it might be time to start talking about night actions. It now seems that many of us, I've counted at least 4 people, have night actions. I will be honest I want to use my night action again, as I think that it's useful not just to me as a player, but potentially the whole village. However, using my night action again would make me tired. I don't then want to be accused of being a cowboy because I am tired. So, what I'm asking, is do people generally agree that those with helpful roles should use their roles, even if it makes them tired? If the agreement is no, I will likely not use my power.

And let me just say again I am not really a seer. One reason I want to use my action tonight is to see if the kind of information I got last night, which is useful, but not extremely useful, is typical of what I will be getting or was specific to the way I performed the action last night.

I am going to see The Departed now. Should be back in in about 3 hours and will be around until lynch. I am hoping that we get a consensus going on Golden as I think that his defense of "I shouldn't need to make a defense" is weak. With Lathum being vouched for I would also hope to see him released from the jail cell come tonight.

I am also very curious as to what our sheriff is thinking. He's got the most important role in the whole game and I think it is incumbant upon saldana, and whoever may hold the role after him, to be as upfront with us possible.

Night actions - I don't think there is any way that you can be Tired in the morning and not draw attention to yourself. We have to act with the information at hand and that is part of the information that is available to us. If the value of your night action is such that you are willing to face additional scrutiny, then you should do it. If the value of the night action isn't worth the heat, then maybe it makes sense to take a night off.

I'm hoping that some of the night actions will lend themselves towards clearing, rather than raising suspicion. So if "Player X" is tired, and I was a target of a benevolent night action, I can link myself to Player X by strongly encouraging people to not lynch him. Don't know if this would apply to your situation or not, but that would be one scenario where I would strongly encourage someone to use their night action every time out.

Barkeep - I tend to agree w/ hoops on this regarding night actions and being tired.

UNVOTE LATHUM for lynch

Based upon the current information.

To add to Hoops' comment on being tired drawing scrutiny. If you are showing as tired, the cowboys will know you got something of value and I'm sure that would make you a target or at least raise the attractiveness of targeting you.

Absolutely -- if you have actions that benefit the village, you should by all means take as much advantage of them as you can. We have the advantage in this game where one day's worth of suspicion won't kill you if you have a valuable role -- you have a whole other day to either convince or see if other events clear you.

Being tired will get attention, but I believe the benefits can outweigh the negatives in this game.

LYNCH GOLDEN EAGLE

Still not sure about who I'd recommend jailing.

Dola, it looks like Gram and I may see the tired factor differently.

I think it is something to think about, it can be a benefit, but it definately outs the fact that you have a night action and if you aint a cowboy, they know you are of higher value to kill.

people that have come out and said they have a night action that a assume will be tired tomorrow.

Saladna - sheriff (does he get tired from this role?)
Barkeep
Anxiety
ntn

lathum said his was one time use so if he's tired it will raise a few eyebrows.

If Anxiety's claim that he pretended to be Chief Rum is true, then Chief Rum can verify that neither Lathum nor ntndeacon visited him last night. If Chief Rum says otherwise, then either Anxiety or Chief Rum is lieing and one is probably a Cowboy. I think there is a very slight chance that Anxiety, Lathum, and ntndeacon all could be Cowboys, but I doubt they would want to risk fabricating a story like this that links them together that would make them all appear to be Cowboys. I am still suspicious of Spleen though.

unjail Anxiety

I don't think there is any reason to free lathum if he can only use his night action once during the game. He cannot be killed by the Cowboys while in jail so it is like if a protector was able to give one specific player protection for the entire game.

unless it was a cover to say that. I'm willing to take that risk.

dola - and put that doubt in the cowboys head too.

Another problem with releasing Lathum though is that it only allows Saldana to jail one person tonight since he is limited to two actions a night.

I am just guessing here. I bet that both Lathum and myself could perform a night action and NOT apear tired, since our last attempt was rebuffed. I might be misreading the rules there. But if Lathum's was a one time thing wouldn't he still have it since he could not use it on Anxiety?

Why is everyone lynching me just to be lynching someone? What is the evidence against me? Yes, I forgot to vote. I coach soccer on Monday and Wednesday and went to practice forgetting about the vote. I was not going to leave practice to go vote for WW.

If someone could give me any evidence for voting other than the whole he forgot to vote deal, I will be impressed.