With vaccines having a 95% success rate ... if I take the vaccine, how can I find out if I'm in the 95%? Is it a measure of antibodies?

Roll 2d10

3d6 actually

This board needs a like button.

Why does the first part surprise you in the slightest? Sports sim games don't exactly represent the majority of the populace. As has been demonstrated repeatedly, this board doesn't represent America proportionally in many ways, not the least of which is opinion on politics, the coronavirus, etc. It would be far more shocking if people on here didn't know others who were different from what's reflected on the board.

I'm talking about people I've served at church with. People I've sang with. People who I know the names of their children, where they live, people who trusted me and I them with personal information I wouldn't share on this board. People who have helped me through crises in my life and whose character I hold in high esteem for the most part, with full justification.

Not that it's the slightest bit relevant, but I don't frequent Reason.com.

Not necessarily. Mask use can contribute to other health problems, and that's before you get into other factors like contributing to lemming-like behavior, reinforcing panic, the political aspects regarding government control, etc. If someone believes that masks are ineffective, I don't think it's at all a stretch to go from there to think doing so is harmful. If I thought they were ineffective (I don't, as discussed many times), I wouldn't wear them.


There are lots of potential reasons. One would be masks themselves spreading by getting contaminated by virus and helping spread it, not being cleaned often enough or properly disposed of, people relying on the mask instead of social distancing, masks not actually being effective in preventing the spread of droplets, etc.

One of the issues that often comes up is that the studies showing transmission mitigation often are measuring large droplets, whereas the argument is made based on studies such as Yang 2011, Balazy 2006, Yezli and Otter 2011, etc. that smaller particles than even a N95 mask is capable of filtering out are responsible for most disease transmission. A number of studies backing this up show no improvement in N95 vs. normal surgical masks in influenza transmission, etc. A representative statement is this:


I'm not saying they are right about this, I think there's a strong and convincing scientific consensus for mask-wearing, I've been in favor of most of the restrictions enacted to date so far, etc. At the same time though, it's not at all a stretch and a worthwhile exercise in unity and empathy to understand how people can come to the conclusion that this consensus may be more fear-based than rational, view it as an overreaction, desire to just do something in order to be seen as doing something rather than assess correctly, etc. It's not a case of wanting the vaccine, masking, etc. if you believe in science. Some believe in science and that's why they're against those things. Not everyone who is scientifically minded is going to search out and thoroughly personally read stuff debunking people like Rancourt. Some will just see something confirming their presuppositions and be done with it - and of course that's a phenomenon definitely shared by a certain number on the other side of the issue as well.

Watching my extended family all post in the Facebook Christmas party group just seems so strange.

It isn't like there are long screeds about the fake pandemic or MUH FREEDUMS.

There is just a complete and utter non-acknowledgement of it. Everyone is going to come in (some from out of town), bring a covered dish, and cram next to each other for 4 hours.

I was talking to my daughters Girl Scout troop leader yesterday who is a doctor. She said she has tons of sick patients and every single one of them went to a large thanksgiving gathering.

Fantastic idea. I hope it comes to fruition.

NFL plans to invite vaccinated healthcare workers to Super Bowl LV, Roger Goodell says in memo

What type of colleterial studies and research are the "temporary" anti-vaccers utilizing to ensure the vaccine is safe for them? It's just funny to me that they don't trust the results of the trials, the conclusions of the medical authorities, and the science built upon decades of vaccine research, but maybe if they eyeball some people in their neighborhood who took it and they don't turn into Democrats or homosexuals or something then they'll decide if it's OK to take down the road.

If too many people sit out the vaccine, even on a "wait and see" basis, we're not getting anywhere close to normal until much longer down the road, years maybe. I just hope that they are excluded from regular life as much as possible as we head back - and that proof of vaccination is a prerequisite to get onto a plane, etc.

There will be adverse effects, maybe even serious ones. But this is an emergency situation. We glorify military service, giving back to your community, etc. Sitting it out based on on what we know now is cowardly and selfish. Worst than draft dodging, because the sacrifice required is much less. But the stakes might be higher.

My local grocery store parking lot is littered with the corpses of people who wore a mask inside to do their grocery shopping. There's just nowhere to put all of the bodies, so we just drive around them. RIP.

Which health problems do cloth mask use contribute to?

I guess we could say they can exacerbate problems with say, claustrophobia or autism. But beyond that, how do masks contribute to health problems?

SI

There are multiple medical studies that indicate that masks can be detrimental in certain situations. No idea how credible they are.

They can use pseudo-science all they want to justify it but I can tell you exactly who they voted for and who they would kill to show allegiance to him.

Like if you're a superhero and you fly too close to an airplane engine; mask might get sucked in.

Even if this is a legitimate concern, the impacted person could wear one of those plastic face shields. Granted, I fall under the lemming category but it seems like such a small sacrifice.

NO CAPES!

SI

Looks as if Moderna's vaccine will be approved.

Keep'em coming.

Largely not. Heck, most that get touted don't even claim to show an actual health issue. Like the one where they have people exercise hard and show that even then effect on oxygenation is minimal. And still it gets touted. "See, there is an effect !"
Others look at strains on HC workers wearing masks for hours. Even others show you can on purpose grow virus/bacterial cultures on certain materials (as a proof of concept to use those when proper material is in short suply). Even others show that masks contain bacteria, that are on the skin for most people anyway (like S.Aureus) and thus you expect them in masks of course too.

I think mental health is a big part of it. But aside from that people with breathing difficulties need an unobstructed flow, there have been reports of increased headaches, I've personally had issues with it obstructing vision, etc.

There are more things in heaven and earth sir, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Went to my dentist today and we discussed if dentist and wife (dental assistant) would be up first. Husband said yes, wife said not early adopter. No, they are not Trump supporters.

Interestingly, the dentist said he has not heard any news/plans on him and practice getting the vaccine. No communication what so ever. I guess he is lower on the list but still should be in the initial group.

BTW, I continue to be impressed by how careful my dentist is with patients. From the front lobby chairs nicely spaced apart, a glass shield at the front desk, gargling with whatever, motion sensor bathroom trash can, foot sensor faucets, plastic stickies on their equipment, masks and face shields & scrubs, and a big "air suck" machine in each station. I don't know how effective the last thing is but every little bit helps I guess.

I'm scheduled to get the vaccine in about an hour and a half.

You won the lottery!

Any concerns? Even a little bit? Let us know if you start craving brains ...

Not really. They sent an email out at 11 offering it to all staff through a link to schedule a time. I took the first available time. The guy working next to me has the slot 15 minutes later.

One of my family members works at a hospital where they’ve had the vaccine since Tuesday afternoon and, as of last night, already 1200 front line workers have been vaccinated (1st dose, Pfizer) as of last night. They have about 4500 doses and expect it all to be administered before New Year’s.

Also, the stories about extra doses in the vials is true with this one. Apparently, it’s common practice to overfill vials with additional vaccine to make sure there is extra to give each dose. They’ve noticed 6 and sometimes even enough for 7 doses in the vials and have been given the go-ahead from CDC (or maybe it was FDA – I forget which) to inject the additional one (but not two) if there is enough to do it safely. So maybe we’re talking a few hundred more doses, too.

SI

Is this voluntary? And any ramifications if someone declined to take it or defer it till late (e.g. Feb)?

Sounds totally voluntary. If you are in the first phase or two and decline to participate, you can get into a later phase - you just don't get higher priority and you're sloshed into the later bucket with everyone else.

Typically they have a system to know if you took your annual flu shot or not and you have to go through a lot of extra hoops if you opt out of it. However, it sounds like the messaging is "hey, this is an experimental vaccine and this is an EUA not a standard one". There may be strings attached later but right now it sounds like they're just trying to get through as many as they can and use up their allocation.

There's also a bunch of special care like how once the vaccine is out, it can't be returned to refrigeration so they have an extra pool of people that can take the extra doses at the end of the day. However, they're also constrained in that state guidelines say it has to go to certain categories of front line responders so you can't, say, start just giving it to other staff, but certain things like food staff and some IT are included.

It's pretty interesting to hear about it from a logistics standpoint.

SI

Similar process for my wife who works in a hospital. Any employee who wants the vaccine submitted a request form and they were going to build out a schedule to prioritize, but figured they had enough to get through all of them by the end of January. Still waiting for her time slot.

Has there been any word on why they cut some vaccine distribution to some states by almost half? Saw Illinois and Nevada on the list unfortunately.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/17/polit...ion/index.html

It's been exploding here. For a while it hovered between 100-200 a day in the county (500k people). Today was almost 650 and it's been over 400 a day for 2 weeks. I have no idea what's happening up here.

So I'm still alive and no extra limbs or anything yet. It burned a bit for me going in, but the guy I work with said he didn't feel anything. No issues or even soreness yet.

They said bad reactions tend to occur within the first 15 minutes of getting the shot. I'm supposed to follow up in 3 weeks to get the 2nd dose.

Damn I was hoping we'd get an extra limb or superpowers! Isn't that how superhero origins work? :) Seriously glad you got the vaccine and hope it does its job

Three weeks until freedom.

I'm just really glad that the election is over so this whole Covid thing could finally disappear like it totally has.

I hear the 2nd dose is a doozy, like you should be prepared to take a day or two off.

Both my girls got Covid back in November. It's been almost a full month since Mackenzie's isolation/quarantine ended. HS basketball practice was allowed to officially start this week and her doctor cleared her. Well, she's been shut down with headaches, dizziness and general inability to concentrate (including during an online test).

I already had little patience with the "...but 99% survival rate!" idiots, but now it's even more clear that this isn't just some typical illness you easily get over. And this comes on the heels of one of Caitlin's former softball teammates getting a Covid-related heart condition that shut her down for a minimum 4 months.

:(

That is terrifying. I hope she gets back to normal soon.

Sorry for the stress you and family must be going through. Have you gone back to Dr. to see if there are any treatment or how to alleviate the symptoms?

That sucks, Ksyrup.

Thoughts are with you Ksyrup. Unfortunately many people aren’t taking it seriously, despite global evidence that they must simply be choosing to ignore.

Looks like we’ll be going back into lockdown and Christmas plans may well be changed - Boris has an announcement on the BBC this pm, and has advised the WHO the new Covid variant here seems to be spreading more quickly than the previous virus

Or...

DeSantis says Florida shipments of vaccines are ‘on hold.’ Pfizer disagrees.

Calling the doctor on Monday to determine how to proceed. The trainer said they are starting to look at neurological issues related to Covid, so this might be something along those lines. The bad thing is, she's already had 4 concussions by the time she was 15, so she might be more susceptible to headaches, dizziness, etc., than she otherwise would be. I have to think the two are related.

Sorry to hear about that, KSyrup. Hope she's fully past this soon.

This is definitely part of my concern with the kids: the impacts after they've "recovered". While the odds are very low for fatality and fairly low for side effects, I don't see a need to gamble with their health.

It's unfortunate that everyone can't make that call based solely on their health. Instead, they have to balance the ability to work and earn a living with the potential impacts of contracting COVID-19. Not a great position to be in. The guilt of bringing home the disease to a loved one that becomes seriously sick could be crippling at times.

Damn, that’s terrible. I’m sorry to hear that. And it bothers me as well that people are just looking at survival rate and not realizing that for some survivors there are serious longer term complications. I hope everything works out for the best with your daughter.

My son and wife are both suffering from dizziness and headaches as part of their post-covid symptoms. My son also has the ball pain too. In fact, they both say that the post symptoms have been worse than the actual illness. Hope your daughter recovers soon.

Hoping for the best CK

It's awful to hear y'all kids & families are suffering. I hope everybody gets better as soon as possible.

While I still believe it is important for the public to see its leaders getting the vaccine, I do find myself getting angry at seeing people who have spent the last nine months downplaying the seriousness of the virus get the vaccine. Can some of those “essential” store workers who were getting their asses kicked, being coughed and spat on just for asking people to wear masks get pushed to the front of the line too?

This the kind of crap that drives me crazy: Georgia Covid vaccine distribution to health care facilities is uneven


To sum up, rich private cancer center with no ER or COVID ward has their entire staff vaccinated, while a non-profit hospital chain on the front line of dealing with COVID has yet to receive any. Priority is always to the wealthy.

Pence should not have been given a vaccine. Same for Congress.

I disagree, Rainmaker. The more people willing to take the vaccine, the better. It is pretty important for prominent Republicans to publicly take the shot as an example. They have done nearly everything wrong on this, but if they refused the vaccine, that would be among the worse.

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Even though cases have been peaking since after Thanksgiving, our health department will stop doing daily news releases in the new year.

Problem solved.

Not sure which thread to post this, but guess it will be seen by more here. Just another example that while being young and healthy mean the likelihood is that you won’t have major issues, it’s not a guarantee

Newcastle: Allan Saint-Maximin & Jamaal Lascelles suffering from Covid-19

Apparently this is tied to some executive orders, AOC (and others I'm sure but I follow AOC) basically got hers live via instagram, I believe she said that she didn't expect to get it so soon but there was a directive "strongly encouraging" all members of congress to do so.

I'm fine with this, personally.

I'm a little opposed to Congress going first, but anyone in the line of succession should absolutely get it ASAP.

I can be convinced otherwise but my first reaction is cutting in line.

I get that America wants to see "leaders" take the vaccine to reassure it's safe. I want to see that and it makes sense for McConnell, Pelosi, Surgeon General, Pence, Birx, Fauci etc. to take it.

But other healthy, younger politicians don't fall in 1a or 1b (currently where we are I think). It smacks of cutting in line. Why should AOC get it before my wife who is a teacher and literally on the front line dealing with kids (and yes, parents send their kids to school when sick)? Rhetorical question, we know why and I don't like it.

I'm okay if it was clearly defined that XX politicians will be given the vaccine when 1a and 1b was defined, but I don't remember reading this in MSM. So this is a surprise and leaves a bad taste.

Question - is this one off or is everyone in Congress going to get it before regular folks?

I'm not sure I believe what both SG say. From the article, it's all fluff words without anything much behind it. It would have been better if they said like

"We are in touch with our colleagues in the UK, they've provided us with some sample and CDC is currently looking at it. Most likely our vaccines will work against this new strain but we will give you a preliminary confirmation by XX date. In the meantime, err on the side of caution and continue to ...."

I'm definitely not a researcher but IMO can smell some BS here with the lack of specificity.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cor...nerals-believe

She is 31 and from what we know a healthy individual. She has the ability to socially distance unlike many other jobs.

My main issue is people like Joni Ernst who was pro-virus for the past year cutting the line to get a vaccine. Reap what you sow bitch.

Mock Joni Ernst for her hypocracy, but still televise her getting that shot. Can you imagine the level of crazy the conspiracy theories would get if no Republicans got the vaccine?

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Pro-virus? What policy positions are pro-virus?

The below questionnaire is to gauge where you may be in line.

New tool tells you when you may be able to get COVID-19 vaccine
How many people may get a COVID-19 vaccine before you?

My result is no surprise.

I am phase 1b. Only 6% of people should be ahead of me. We'll see. I bet I will be lucky to get it in phase 2

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Thanks for the link to the tools Edward

You are welcome.

FWIW, I don't want it in Dec but I don't want it last either. Thinking about spending $25K to bribe someone to cut in line :)

Scott fucking Atlas getting a WSJ opinion to blame HC professionals for spreading disinformation is such a 'perfect' way to end 2020 that i have to wonder if that really was meant to be released Dec 31. What a shitshow.

Heh, good point. How about "not believing in the severity/danger of coronavirus".

Damn elitist.

Apparently, according to the tool I may never get the Vaccine.

Phase 2 for me from the looks of it.

Only 2 million people ahead of me in my state.

And you are complaining?

8.6M ahead of me.

SO many people at my wife's work won't take it that she may get in tomorrow or Thursday.

Birx is resigning. She was hypocritical and didn't think her directions to regular folks applied to her. I don't think she needed to resign, just a heart felt apology that she screwed up would have been okay.

Might also have been miffed that Biden seemed to have preferred Fauci.

Is she resigning under trump? I don't see Biden really playing into it at the moment. Or am I missing something?

If you are pushing policy or conspiracy theories that result in the virus spreading, you are pro-virus. Just as if she was consistently pushing policies that led to war, I'd consider her and others pro-war.

Was pretty vague but it just sounds like she won't be working for the Biden administration. My guess is they told her she was gone when they take over and resigning is a nicer way of leaving. Can maybe salvage a shred of whats left of her reputation.

I find this very hard to believe ... can it be true that SF only had 173 coronavirus fatalities? I get it's city vs county (county is what is typically reported in GA) but the 173 seems extremely low.

Overdose deaths outnumber COVID-19 deaths more than 3 to 1 in San Francisco | TheHill

They have had some of the strongest restrictions and high compliance rates. Plus a world class health system and department of health that made testing real easy for anyone.

I think people have said that the AIDS crisis in the city helped build a great health infrastructure for today.

The takeaway here, if the numbers are correct, is the great job dealing with the virus. Drugs are a threat to every city and they aren't going away with a vaccine. There are much more complex problems at play with drug and drug addiction than just dealing with prevention and emergency medical treatment of a virus.

Weird technical question - how do contracts work for political appointees at that level? Are they on month to month contracts with a set buyout if they're terminated?

Like if Birx is not wanted by Biden, but not being pushed out by Trump, isn't it basically at-will employment/allowed for the incoming administration to decline to keep anyone? Or is that a perception I have because people used to play by honorable rules, but the legal reality is murkier?

She works at the discretion of the President. It doesn't appear she is going to be asked to be on his coronavirus task force. Biden could move her elsewhere into the shadows to avoid having to let her go, but my guess is she sees the writing on the wall.

Texas and Florida doing it their own way, prioritizing the older folks before essential workers. I don't agree or disagree, don't think there is one right answer to sequencing.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/23/covi...-of-shots.html

I thought all the people 65 and older sacrificed their lives already on behalf of the economy.

Let's hope that 2021 is the expected slow plodding of vaccinations, some bumps and acrimony, but largely completed by late-summer.

Because we apparently have mutated strains in UK (not new news), in South Africa (not quite new news but came out yesterday) and now in Nigeria (today's new news).

It's 50-50 right now whether we get the Zombie Apocalypse / 24 Days worse case scenario.

Bloomerberg has a really nice vaccine tracker that they're updating throughout the day. Some of the states and countries report data a few days after the fact, so it's fair to say we're well over 3.3 million globally vaccinated so far, and 1.23 million in the U.S. Just a nice daily boost to your morale. At least 3 states have already vaccinated over 1% of their population (they're counting everyone who has started the 2 drug sequence).

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

I read somewhere the goal was 20M vaccinated in the US in Dec. Likely be missing that goal but hopefully we can really get in gear in Jan or right after the inauguration.

I don't think we should be critical of missing that goal, this is all uncharted territory since polio/small pox mass vaccinations. Definitely a learning curve here.

My wife got the first dose yesterday.

How does she feel?

A bit sore in the arm, but otherwise fine.

I'm assuming this is a joke, but I'm not sure.

We haven't heard from Atocep for the past couple days, and he was the first of us to get a shot.

So like History Channel Ancient Aliens series "... could it be that Atocep is now slowing turning into a zombie or a rager?"

I don't know what the big deal is with people having allergic reactions to the vaccines. Yeah, the first time it was interesting and nice to know there is a process to resolve it (e.g. epipens). But does MSM have to report (seemingly) every time it happens now?

Approx 1M+ have been vaccinated, and there have been < 10 bad allergic reactions, all taken care of.

Let me know if someone dies or something really, really bad happens. Otherwise, just keep on saying vaccines are safe and that if you have an allergic reaction, the health care workers know what to do etc.

Add France to the list of a new variant.

So let's up the odds to 60-40 now :)

The reporting of the <10 bad allergic reactions are not meant for you. They are meant for the record to show that they did report the reaction and did not hide them. It will not make that big of a difference because for anti vaxxers, the coverage of those bad reactions should be covered in the way 9/11 was covered.

Thems the rules of the game until told otherwise.

Okay, I see what you are saying. I can buy that.