sure olie....and by doing so, will hopefully keep people from wasting their time deciding if they should order you to vote for me today, or whatever the stupid plan that doesnt make sense is going to be.


so far, we have seen the full role reveals for everyone that has already died, and none of them could have done this, and no one has claimed it, which i was hoping they would so i could catch them in their lie.

as the Friar, my love of God is so great that I was able to work on the Cathedral one time, during the night phase.

that is how the amount of work required went down from 2 to 1 on night 1.

I worked on the windows while everyone else was sleeping.

Nice! Now let's get this thing finished!
WORK ON ARTWORK

WORK ON ARTWORK

Alright, I'm up for finishing this:

Work on carpentry

Work on artwork

After Pass and I, that leaves one unit of artwork to be done. I wouldn't mind seeing somebody double up both my work and Pass' to avoid the possibility of somebody faking their work. Pass, I'm not suggesting that you are a demon, just playing it safe when it comes to finishing the cathedral.

Now, a plea to all those with some powers of protection here. Angel(s) that might be able to protect parts of the cathedral, please do so tonight. My area of expertise is carpentry so I've focused on it with my actions (not sure how I'll do with artwork unless you are letting the carpenter do chainsaw art or something!).

After the work gets done, I can see the rest of the village working on outing a demon but I'm worried about a bad lynch given the tight population count. But I guess I say go for a demon, start pushing the action as I said yesterday, and see if we can make something happen rather than let things happen.

You know what ass, you come up with something better then, at least I am tying to come up with something that will help us. If you don't agree with it that's fine but youer overall attitude towards my attempt to do what's best for us has been piss poor. What are you doing to help?



The fact that you think this clears you is laughable and absurb. BK clearly stated angels and demons may keep their public roles abilities. There isno reason I see why you couldn't be a demon with this ability and use it to gain trust, it would actualy make perfect sense.

I'm not fully sure what to do yet today. We only have 5 units left to complete on the cathedral. I agree with Purdue in that we should go over on both areas to prevent someone from "faking it" and setting us back another day.

So lets say we use 7 or 8 units for building, that leaves alot of extra actions for votes.. so I'm guessing that people will be placing votes on alot of people today.

My initial instinct is that I'm likely voting for Cronin today, but my bind is that I am only here until 11am. I have to meet the locksmith at the new house to rekey everything, and then the cable guy for the cable install. So I likely will make early votes and then gone for the rest of the day (unless I can get on for a bit around 8 or 9pm)

Alan, I see you are here. What do you think of Saldana's " this is how I can prove I am a villager" post?

Im starting to come around to looking at Lathum instead of Cronin...

BK also made it clear that while roles and allegiance was randomly put together, some roles were modified or changed depending on who ended up an angel or demon. There are a few roles that I just don't see him giving the bad guys (ie: whats the point in an evil bodyguard?) You are trying overly hard now to discredit someone who has done about all that we can without the seer.. an act of good faith.

Purposely gunning for one of the only people whom have displayed an act that shows to be benefitial seems pretty off right now.

See my post below.. I feel you are either taking something personally and letting it blur your vision or you are trying to purposely fit a square peg in a round hole in order to get something to stick... I don't see your viewpoint regarding Saldana today.

I am really close to using both votes on Saldana.

He claims some BS reason why he can prove he is a villager. He is continualy pointing out reasons I can be bad, while completly ignoring half of my rebuttals. He asks me THREE TIMES why I thought it was a good idea for me to command Olie to vote, each time I explain it he asks me again.
He then says he completely understand my reasoning????

And I don't even want to go into him using the old " how convienient you you say you won't be around and all of a sudden you get some votes and show up" because I have such a reputatuion for lurking for 5 hours then jumping in.

then you are on drugs or a demon. ;)

Then again it was you who initialy deviated from my suggest plan.

I'm going to ignore the last part of your post since I wasn't around and have no idea how it all shaped up.. but looking at the first part there...

If you put yourself in my shoes.. as a third party which do you think would seem more villager friendly:

- Someone who has proven an ability to help further the villager's objective
- Someone who has proven the ability to command another person to behave a certain way with their vote/action.

Speaking for myself, if I had to base it on acts alone, I would say I trust Saldana more than you.

VOTE SALDANA


VOTE SALDANA

nothing personal ( as you know ) but I think you are acting way different this game.

There is a good chance I'll be lynched today and I can live with that. Just in case I am the people I distrust are Saldana, AlanT, St. Cronin and PerdueBrad.

because it wouldn't be wolfish to help the village in an attempt to gain trust.....

Does sleep deprived count as on drugs?

Seriously, I think you are too close to this issue and need to take a few steps back to see the whole forest instead of just this tree. Like I said two days ago (or was it yesterday? I don't remember) that I had a good feel about you, and most of me still thinks both you and Saldana are villagers. You just feel like you are pushing too hard now.

I honestly don't see how you could include purduebrad in this list.. I halfway expected him to be the one nightkilled last night.

I think he has been very UTR and to agreable

I have to give him the benefit of the doubt that he is not going to lie about being affected by Crohn's disease causing him to feel ill just for the point of laying low in a WW game...

I actually couldn't see anyone making that move.. thats a bit much.

I agree 110% but there have been other days that he has lurked alot.

I put him last because I susoect him least.

Hehe, yeah, thanks Alan. Unfortunately not something I would've lied about. I have been UTR this game which isn't my style but I would also point out that everything I have done this game has been for the betterment of the village and I truly believe that finishing the cathedral is the best way to victory. I've tried to be around more the last twenty-four hours.

In all honesty though, I'm beginning to feel that somebody (Lathum) is trying to draw me into some sort of reveal. I'll reveal this much, I'm the carpenter and that has already had a positive effect on the carpentry portion of the building.

Congrats on the new house, BTW.

Lathum, for my value, see post #567. If you were around pre-edit, you'll know the effect I had.

I was leary of posting this because I didn't want to give to much insight to how I play as a wolf, but if I spot the cultist the first day as a demon what is the better play

1. Go after the cultist from day 1, get him lynched day 2, and gain a tiny level of trust.

2. Attempt to convert that player night 1 then sell them out as a demon day 2-3, gain a much higher level of trust and keep the village guessing as to weather or not that was the cultist or one of the original demons.

you tell me which is a better move? ( see tombstone)

Since I have an hour before I need to leave and not much is happening other than Lathum posting thoughts that I pretty much completely disagree with.. I think today its time for me to take control of this game. I am the Lord Leige and I will not stand for my people to disrespect me.

People might feel bad about Chief Rum's death yesterday, but for me he died to help clear two others (Path and Anxiety). Through his death, I feel better about both of them and no longer wish to cause them harm.

I also feel pretty good about Saldana and PurdueBrad.
I assume with 12 of us left, we started with 3-4 demons, 2-3 angels and possibly an alternate team involving the Bishop. If the 3-4 demons and 2-3 angels remain, worst case right now we have 4 villagers - 4 demons (which is obviously not the case because otherwise the game would be over). Best cast, 7 villagers to 3 demons. A mistake with today's lynch and I fear that our village will be doomed before the Cathedral is finished completely.

I assume the Bishop is not a demon, even if his interests might not be the same as our own.. he is not who needs to die today.. Thus, the people on this list need to provide me a good reason why you should not die today. One of you will.

Knight: Lathum
Page: oliegirl
Goldsmith: Mr. Wednesday
Blacksmith: Pass
Shepard: st.cronin
Mason: Schmidty

I was going to wait untill later to post this but Saldana will be by on his lunch break and I need to leave.

Last night I was attacked and fought it off. I have no idea who my attacker was and I want to repeat I AM NOT THE BODYGUARD AND THE BODYGUARD DID NOT PROTECT ME.


take it for what it's worth, I am out for a while.

Alan, I just read your post but really have to go. I am sorry but when I know I am good and someone comes at me I assume they are bad, I think you have played enough games with me to know that :) . I don't trust Saldana at all.

No worries -- I was thinking of suggesting the same thing, but had to leave for work. There's enough of us that we can pretty much double up on what's left -- or more. When we're this close, it would be stupid to let one or two (or three or four) fakes mess us up.

and I l9ove a good WW argument ;)

If you're saying you have the power to do a day kill, I think it's a bad idea -- and not just because I'm on the list.

My power will become apparent today without me explaining it. As I have now hinted to it, I shall use it in order to not be killed without it being used. I am not looking to explain myself, I know where my heart lies, I am looking for you and others to explain themselves.

If you'd like to ask anything, feel free. All I can say is I've been working to get this damn cathedral built as quickly as possible without all the petty bickering. I've put myself out there today, putting in my actions to get the work done first thing this morning. So if people vote me, I don't even have self-defense. If that's not sacrificing myself for the village, I don't know what is.

I don't really have any great questions to ask. I just don't want us to lynch a villager accidentally today. So its pretty important that if killing you would be a bad move, I understand why. While others might not leaving this up to my judgement, at least I know its not tainted by some other agenda.

I don't want us, too, either. That's why I suggested not doing it.

blah...that should have been to, not too. And no comma. Geez.

To clarify: If you're talking about adding ANOTHER kill, I think it's a bad idea. I think we're at a point where more bloodshed does us more harm.

Adding another kill would be counter productive wouldn't it? There is going to be a death today, Barkeep has said so, I want a good reason from the people I listed why it shouldn't be them.

Cool, just making sure we were on the same page, and you knew exactly what I was advising against. If what you're proposing gives us the same number of kills, I'm fine with it.

I am the bodyguard, I protected the following:

Night 1 - Lathum
Night 2 - Path 12
Night 3 - myself

I specifically asked BG in a PM if I would know if my guard was needed or not after the fact or if the person would know if I guarded them. His answer was very vague, said he couldn't answer the question, but could tell me that the only time I would know who tried to attack would be in the case of Leviathan attacking as he is unblockable.

Hopefully this will take me off the suspect list, but since I guarded myself last night I can't guard myself tonight. But with all the disorganization going on, I figured it might help us get on track and start eliminating suspects.

I'm not sure I understand, olie -- you asked if you would find out whether or not you had blocked an attack, and his answer to that was vague?

I would agree with the Page, Blacksmith. The Lord works in mysterious ways... and he speaks in riddles as well. For how can we comprehend the true voice of our one true Lord, and not have our ears fail, and our souls shaken to their very core?

Yes. I asked him something to the effect of "will I know if a block was needed or successful, and will the person I blocked know I blocked them". He said something to the effect of "I can't answer that, but I can tell you the only time you'd know the identity of the attacked is if it was Leviathan because his attack is unblockable."

Thanks. So you don't know if you blocked the attack, basically?

Right. I never received any information about any of the guard actions I submitted.

We do know that Leviathan is not the wolf who attacked Lathum last night as he was able to fight him off, and according to BK, Leviathan's attack is unstoppable.

Now if we just knew who Leviathan was!

Morning all, just got caught up. Lathum is claiming to have been attacked last night and saved yet the BG has RR and said she was attacked too.

Two attackers, or one false reveal and one attacker?

I'm inclined to beleive Oliegirl's reveal unless someone else counters it.

So what's going on with lathum?

I have 4 minutes till I need to leave for a while.. Oliegirl, help me reconsile what you said with what Lathum said...

Right now I am to believe that we have a night that apparently nothing happened, a bodyguard who isn't aware of anything happening and another third party (Lathum) who claims to have somehow blocked a kill without any ability to do so.

I don't see any reason for you to lie, but I'm trying to understand if you had anything to do with helping Lathum last night, or if he was telling the truth, or if it is a big lie on his part.

Like I said, I think we're in end game here, and he might just be trying to buy just one day.

THats not what I understood at all. I read it as oliegirl saying she has no idea if she has blocked or not blocked any night so far this game. I think you're wrong.

Wait a second, afetr rereading, you weren't atatcked alst night? Then why reveal? To disprove Lathums claim?

I never said I was attacked last night, I submitted my night action to guard myself, but I was never told if I was attacked.


It seems odd that he'd be able to fight off an attack without my bg powers, but we don't know what his powers as the Knight are. The Page wants to be the Knight, so maybe it's possible that my bg powers are lesser than his or that he can guard himself without the need for a bg. I have no idea at this point. I'll vote with the rest of the village today as long as there is a compelling reason to vote for that person.

Okay, we can reasonably infer that last night was an attack on a person not the cathedral. Why?

Based on the ruiles and the previous night, two areas were damaged, yet one angel blocks damage/.

Thus Lathum or oliegirl was the target. If it wasnt you oliegirl, then I'm not sure why you revealed

I personally believe that Lathum threw out that he was attacked in a completely unverifiable way as a method to try to just buy trust for one more day. If they get 1 or 2 more kills of villagers in, they likely win.. he just wants to buy another day..

Thats what I am leaning to right now at least.

Yeah, I reread thhose posts. In my still sleepiness I must read it into all of the "what do I get told and not told by bk." Sorry.

But still. I'm interested in haering more from you. As per pervious post.

I was all ready to jump on Lathum too, shoot.

Why can't it be a conversion? If a conversion happened either you or Path would have been obvious targets I would think. So i can understand why you wouldn't want people to consider a conversion.

Well, I'm out. back later.

I revealed because of a couple reasons. First of all, we have NO definitive information...there are so many roles and possibilities with good and evil, that we have to start somewhere. No one else was coming out with clear cut "I'm not evil" information, so I did.

Secondly, AlanT's list...I want to be alive when the villagers win the game, so I revealed to protect myself.

I'm thinking that means there was no attack on the Cathedral. The rules say they can select two wolves to attack the cathedral -- not sure why they would choose to use just one.

From what I have inferred, it was not the Page, Butcher. I believe that she deems it the right moment to reveal herself and begin building a circle of trust.

As for the Knight's reveal, I will wait for him to explain... other than the simple words of "I have been attacked! I know not who attacked me, nor why I am not dead!"

I find it peculiar, considering he should at least have knowledge of his abilities... this is assuming that he is in fact telling the truth.

I feel that his tongue is holding back on information that might be crucial, or that he may be lying through his teeth for some odd reason.

Let's take a look at the numbers

12 people left. Let's assume a minimum number of angels and demons. Say three. I know some have speculated four earlier, but lets suppose three.

Let's pull out the bishoip.

Ratio of demons to cityfolk 3-5. If we accidentally lynch a peasant today, and they night kill another tonight, then they get their game. If Bishop counts, then we'd have to lynch another city person tomorrow in order for them to get their game,

However, if we kill an angel or demon today, we keep the ratio up for a while.

Here's teh kicker - if we accidentally kill an angel today, it will still help us in the long run by giving us another day to finisht eh catehdral after demon attacks at night. WHat we don;t want to do is whack a villager.

I hadn;t even thought of a conversion to be honest. That's possible. However, with a cultist and at least three demons, having a conversion ability to get a fourth in a 16 person game seems a bit powerful to me. Let's suppose they did. What are the numebrs for that?

4-6 even with teh Biship counting as a peasant. If he doesn;t, its 4-5 and pretty much game over.

BEsides, if it were a conversion, how do you explain lathum;s claim? HE chose poorly his "reveal". I guess I could buy that. And if the demons had a conversain ability, it does make selling out the Cultist seem like a better play, assuing you knew where the cultist was.

Alright, I gotta get to work. THis writing stuff is tough when you want to do something else. I'm pulling out the ethernet card and will restore it in a few days.

I was working on the first paragraph of a character bio and I think I figured out what happened last night. I will respect oliegirl and Lathums privacy on this.

I'm perplexed...I've given all the information I have.

That's if Lathum was actually attacked.

I was going to mention conversion also. We only have Lathum's word about the attack, and him fighting it off makes sense on one had as the Knight, but he already said his power was being able to compel Olie on her vote......

*one hand, not one had.

is anyone else picturing barkeep with the head of alanis morissette right now?

Wow. I never thought that would be how someone would picture me.

Yeah, but who's to say he doesn't have more than one power? Wasn't it RendeR that had 2 or 3 different powers/abilities?

Where is Ant with his super PhotoShop skills when we need him????

so here is what we have left...i have put my thoughts next to each person..

Bishop: Neon Chaos
Lord Leige: Alan T
Knight: Lathum - trusted...misled, particulary about me, but trusted
Page: oliegirl - trusted...made her reveal, no reason to believe she is lying, no counter claim
Friar: saldana - obvious
Peon: path12 - highly trusted, vouched for Anxiety when chance to be scanned still existed
Goldsmith: Mr. Wednesday
Blacksmith: Pass
Shepard: st.cronin
Mason: Schmidty
Butcher: Anxiety - highly trusted - vouched for Path
Carpenter: PurdueBrad - trusted

keeping my list in mind, i would be inclined to go with cronin, pass, or schmidty today.

alan stays off my list because he is hinting at a demonstration of his goodness today

neon stays off because i am totally confused about him, but find his posts amusing [/sarcasm]

Can you list out your reasons for wanting to go with Cronin, Pass and Schmidty? Just so we are all clear and there is no confusion...there has been a lot of conversations about a lot of people, don't want to end up screwing this up b/c of misinformation. Also, then the 3 of them will have a chance to defend themselves based on current accusations...

Why not Mr W? I have no read on him at all.

Sure, that's possible. I thought I remember him saying he just had one at some point, but that's not a statement I'd necessarily take at face value from anyone, good or bad.

RendeR did have a few powers. But RendeR was also bad. ;)

I'm also waiting for Alan's move before putting him on a trust list, but am willing to take him off the agenda for today pending that. I'm not as sure about Purdue as you seem to be. He could help with the construction one night and sabotage it the next for all we know.

Alan is obviously the duke, right?

Sounds like it.

Ser Knight, would you not change your votes on the Friar? Certainly, there are more ample candidates for inquisition today, don't you think?

Is there any point voting right now? We're almost finished with the Cathedral, and Alan has pretty much told us the vote won't matter. This is the plan Lathum wanted to put into effect yesterday, isn't it? Why don't we just do the plan again today?

i dunno, who is the friar?

OK, about last night.

Does anyone really think my only ability is to sit on my ass and boss oliegirl around?

Aye?

LIES!

OK, Alan is also pinging my radar pretty hard,

He votes CR yesterday 8 hours before the deadline when we really didn't have a chance to discuss the proposed plan.

My question is this, if he can duke someone why waste his 2 votes?

Why not work on the cathedral with his 2 actions then duke to ChiefRum?

huh?

That's where my thinking was headed in my last post. I'm inclined to excuse it as a poor villager play, though. Then again, everyone seems to be simply taking his word -- I think this is an angle that is worth exploring more.

I may be agreeable to this. Unfortunately, sir, I am no angel, and I have been tasked by the good Lord to win victory true for mankind... which means the hunt for the Demons must continue. Mankind does not win true victory unless we vanquish the demons AND build the cathedral. Do you not understand? Unless you are a demon, devising a plot... or an angel, whose only concern is to finish the cathedral.

The Knight's votes to throw the Friar into the fire concern me. I believe that he is misguided in this.

Alan also mentions a possible conversion last night.


I think this is VERY unlikely considering we killed the cultist

Well, you said you weren't the bodyguard, and Olie then revealed as it, yet she didn't guard you, you say you were attacked but are still here. I have a hard time believing there are two bodyguards.

Sexy. My humps!

Couldn't there be someone with a power that he can defend himself if attacked?

hmmmmm, what role would be most likely to have that ability

Who everyone? Didn;t AlanT get 4 votes last night and was in second place. That ain;t everybody baby.

I'm talking about today -- I haven't seen anyone call him out, or say they don't believe him, until the post I was replying to.

I believe, Blacksmith, that upon the small hint from the Lord Liege, people have suddenly balked at the thought of going against him. After all, when we assume him to have such authority that he can put to death anyone he pleases, it is prudent not to err on his side.

I still believe, and having this mentioned yesterday, that we were being manipulated into a vote between himself and the Monk.

I expect the votes today to come swiftly as the hour of judgement approaches. I am yet torn as to what to do today.

Who do you think was doing the manipulating? And why?

I have no solid grasp of who, as of yet. But why? Given that the silence of the novice lent him to have been targeted by the Lord Liege, it just did not feel quite right.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that saldana and Lathum are Gabriel and Lucifer in some order. I would think that those two roles would be actively campaigning to get rid of the other, and they seem to be the two that have gone at each other from early on.

It might also explain an attack on Lathum, as Lucifer and Gabriel are specifically stated to have powers known only to themselves. No other roles but the cultist specifically say they have hidden powers.

cool stuff like that never happens to us