Danny?

Lathum - Yes, it's in the rules.

from rules

ok, thanks

It doesn't look like the sympathizer gets converted if found by the desperate for attention, or if he finds any of the needies.

So that leads me to believe we lucked out with a BG block.

Read my vote like this if you want - I stand by my reasoning for the vote. I'm not saying that I have any particular suspicions about PB (because I don't at this point in the game), just that of the options available at the time (as I saw them), I thought that this was the best use of my vote.

Or it's something activated by an unlisted role, in which case.. at least we didn't lose anyone.

why such a quick vote, lathum?

I saw some stuff in his play yesterday that stuck out to me

Little late, you think?

I think I may see what is going on here. I'm going to wait until morning to atleast see if anyone comes out claiming anything. My theories at the moment:

Lathum is the seer and viewed PB last night

Lathum and PB were involved in the night kill some way some how. Possibly Lathum saw PB, or Lathum is a wolf and knows PB saw him.

There is some unlisted role mechanic at work here

Lathum is just being Lathum

I'm not willing to jump onboard yet like DT, I think I will wait to see what happens in the morning.

Yeah, I'm certainly not casting any votes tonight.

Not a huge fan of the hit and run vote from DT, either. Not like you don't have time to explain it..

Or we've a case of known unknowns by certain players. And I think I'm going to bed now.

Could have swore I said I wouldn't play in another Abe game.


;)

well its possible there is another roll out there liek the talker....

I'm already down 0-2 in the voting. I'm pretty sure I laid everything out I possibly could last night so at this point my only defense is I'm good. I'll just go back into my corner and sit quietly.

I'll throw out conversion as an equally likely possibility as BG block.

I guess not being able to vote is not a completely bad thing. My voting has sucked these last three games anyway.

On the plus side I guess we either got a BG block or some other game mechanic came into play.

I don't think we should immediately say the BG should not reveal. Unless the BG had a hunch, or picked up on something, the block was probably a self protect. If that is the case and he (or she) saw the attacker there should definitely be a reveal as the wolves would most likely already know it. If the BG is certain that he (or she) wasn't seen or didn't identify the attacker then there is no reason to reveal.

I've got a few games under my belt with Lathum. I don't think he auto-votes someone with no explanation to start Day 2 without a very good reason.

I'll move it if given a very compelling reason, but none have emerged so far.

VOTE PURDUEBRAD

maybe hes the one who can feel bad feelings? anf he cant reveal?

vote pb

Changed your line by a word but I will bet you a beer that he certainly did just that.

ok, i see no roll like that, apparently ive been in polis qrack

if you are a villager... then lathum gets axed tommroow, unless he explians a ton :)

Wow, 0-4. Just know that I really don't like being the center of attention, I'm kind of quiet. I'll go back to sweeping, take no notice of me.

EVERY single voter, I want you to guarantee me this. WHEN I am revealed as good, Lathum goes next. I have no problem with being a sacrifice for the village but that vote is out and out odd, as is DT's. So if you guys guarantee me that, I don't care if you lynch me 20-0, as that is how it looks. DON'T GET SPUN after I come up good.

EF, thanks for rooting for my Penguins last night.

:rant:

:D

Gotta head to a meeting and work.

The only thing I can say with 100 percent certainty is that I will not be voting for PB today. ;)

well if he does not KNOW you are good, im sure hell say something long befre 8 pm!

Something is not sitting right with me about this morning. I can't quite put my finger on it. I know no one likes my gut feelings, but the crazy thought in my head right now is Lathum is just being Lathum and voting on his gut without much other reason. Others seem to be trying to build this up into a PB vs Lathum thing when I'm not sure that was what he was hinting at based on his short post after his vote.

I'm wondering if the end result of this will be a PB death followed by a Lathum death where both turned up good. Meaning three days lost and very little vote record from days 2 and 3 (due to the current run on PB and what I am guessing would be a run on Lathum tomorrow).

I honestly don't see any reason for a wolf to singularly out himself on day 2 by putting a he or me type vote out there, so only really two options seem legit to me: 1) PB is indeed bad, which would suprise me since I'm not usually that off on my read of people and based on his reactions, I just don't get that feeling.. 2) PB is good, and the wolves are more than happy letting Lathum put his neck out there.

I'm with Alan. To me Lathum can make the move he does as a vanilla villager. Of course in this game it might be something else.

Danny: Might want to update the thread title.

Done

ALan and BK... If its just a gut call im sure he will say, this was just a gut call what are you all doing....

i was on my way to bed actually. turned in a lil early last night.

and my line of thinking was that lathum wouldn't drop a quick vote like that without reason, and if he does he should know that we'll come after him next, so it'd be a suicidal wolf-move.

wondering if we'll hear more from him today

Wondering if well here from him? Lathum is one of those talk to hear his own voice types :D

Was this a question or statement? Just trying to see if you are looking for a response :)

Morning all

He's asleep. He's a west coaster.

wow.. I just reread that.. and I have no idea what I was trying to say :P

im sure he will explain when he wakes up :)

I was making fun of DT :P I know he lives in seattle

From what I understand of this game, there is no such thing in this one. Now there may be roles that are a little less special than others, but I don't think Danny has any plain-jane villagers with no conditions, options, etc.

Also, based on the rules of the game Lathum may not be able to fully explain his vote if it is role-based. Which could be a convenient excuse for a wolf, but a very legitimate reason for a villager to not provide more details on his vote.

Like I said earlier, if something compelling comes up I'll change my vote. But nothing about Day 2 seems all that suspect to me at this point.

I don't like PB's answer today(I honestly expected them to point the finger at each other. I was thinking there was a BG block on the kill last night and those two saw each other at the scene). Makes me feel like the options have narrowed down to two at this point. Either Lathum is the seer or Lathum is just going on a gut reaction. I don't actually expect Lathum to reveal if he is indeed the seer so I will go ahead and:

Vote PB

I understand not being able to explain votes and such, but those votes came so quick before the morning even really started...they just seem kinda fishy...

YAY, Lathum is here.

LOL...awesome.

Ummm, Lathum left.

YAY, Lathum is back.

and Lathum's back! (see i can play that game too)

ARGH, another person in my head!

OK, I left because I needed to PM Danny.

This whole not mentioning anything about roles makes it pretty much impossible to say anything and be certain you aren't breaking any rules.

I'll post more when I hear from Danny but it may be a while. I may go back to sleep

The only reason I am even up right now id I had to register for fall quarter classes this morning.

So you are saying you know PB is bad due to your role? You aren't going on a gut feeling?

yeah - the roles thing makes it tough

*shurg* i think that's more than enough for me to go on...and frankly i hope you don't say anymore lathum, b/c we don't want them to know what kind of role you have. maybe you're just the symapthizer-finder and PB is the sympathizer...etc.

no, I'm not saying that

Alright then, I'm completely confused.

I'll leave it alone, say no more Lathum. I don't want you to reveal any role you may have.

<------ Desperately hoping that Danny gets back to Lathum.

Timidly sits in the corner, not liking all eyes on me.

it's gotta be tough for the person under-fire too

sorry PB

Lathum, are you comfortable with the fact that if PB gets voted out and comes back good your fecked?

Surprisingly, I'm not frustrated. There isn't much I can do here anyway. I worked too hard last night anyway. I got nothing.

No I won't be.

Clap, why are you pushing that agenda so hard when it is clear that Lathum is waiting for clarification before continuing? You seem deadset on forcing a link there that has not been confirmed.

yeah.

I was voting PB no matter what today, but part of the reason I voted so early was to see how things went down.

Claps reaction and DT's second vote both strike me as interesting.

Well, nothing from Danny.

I am going back to sleep, then shower/breakfast, then class.

I'll be back on around 1:30 EST.

Why doesn't hoops's reaction strike you as interesting?

I was wondering the same thing actually. I almost voted for Hoops earlier and then talked myself out of it under the thought that I always feel suspicious about him.

I figured you had your reasons Lathum, partidularly given the mechanic of the game

Hoops provided a sensible explination, however if others want to vote hoops I won't attempt to stand in their way.

I think a 2 way race probably is a good thing today.

well we need some kind of clarification. either he has evidence that pb is bad, or he doesnt.

ok, thats good enought for me

unvote PB

whats good enough for you?

All I said was I was voting PB either way.

I got back to Lathum, but I guess he left before I did.

I am having problems this game getting feelings that really ping me as bad so far. Yesterday I had a nagging feeling inside of me where for some reason I felt Lathum and Dubb were acting in a way that they were protecting ntn. That actually led to my placing my vote there as much as PurdueBrad's discussion during the day. With ntn being good, I obviously don't feel quite as strongly about Lathum or Dubb any longer. (even though for some reason the way Dubb has involved himself in the conversations in both days feels a bit off to me, and I can't quite place why).

There was another grouping that I noticed, but couldn't quite figure out from day 1 as well.. I think I remember it as Hoops + Packerfanatic, but for the life of me can't remember what it was about those two. I do note however that Packerfanatic felt a bit too agreeable with me this morning regarding the Lathum vs PB thing.

Still, even with the people I listed, I didn't get any real strong wolf pings from them or anyone so far this game. I've had quite a number of people that feel ok to me though which also is weird.

I haven't heard anything yet that has convinced me that there is a better vote to be had today than PB.

His explanation was pretty much the same as DT and clap's really -- he was just a little wordier and cautious about it, and suggested that he might switch (which, of course, means he might not). I don't think it makes him any better than those two.

As for voting hoops, I didn't really expect you to stand in my way (and I don't know how you could, to be honest). I'm not really wanting to vote him at this point (though, like Alan, I had considered it earlier) -- I just don't think he should be left out of the list of people potentially trying to make this a runaway for PB. But I'm also not really looking to vote for anyone at the moment -- there's a lot of votes out there considering how early it is, and for the time being, I'm staying out of it.

I have a follow up question in but basically I can't say much.

By this, do you mean that your earlier reasons still apply, or that despite what appears to be a slight backtrack from Lathum, you still think PB is the best choice?

Alan, I can tell you that there is no reason (at least in my mind) for a linkage with PackerFanatic and me. What I did note about him yesterday is that on two separate occasions he followed Pass on votes.

Post #284 - Pass votes Lerriuqs (who voted for him first)
Post #333 - PF votes Lerriuqs
Post #341 - Pass unvotes Lerriuqs
Post #357 - PF unvotes Lerriuqs
Post #370 - Pass votes NTN
Post #374 - PF votes NTN

What do I make of this? Honestly, I don't know but I've got it down as some kind of linkage between the two of them until proven otherwise.

Pass, I gotta be honest. You are playing the same exact way you played during the Office Space game when you were a wolf.

I'm not sure how much of a backtrack is here. Lathum has made it clear he wants to let us know something about his role and/or involving PB but has also made it clear Danny is not letting him do so. Could be wolf BS or it could mean he caught PB.

Ok, that's about all I can say as per Danny.

I'm not the seer or BG, nor do I want the seer or BG to come out. However, I stand by my vote for PB and hope we get some meaningful discussion/ vote history from today.

Man, I barely remember the Office Space game -- since I was a wolf, I probably didn't live long. What did I do there?

That is true, but he's also been worried about the people following him on his vote. If he's that sure, why is he so worried about them?

We had three people in a vote yesterday. One of them has been proven to be good (NT). So PB is a person of interest for the vote today.

PB would also have been a person of interest for people with good roles and actions last night, although my (stated) preference would have been EF. So with him having a higher likelihood of drawing investigative actions last night, that makes him more interesting than the average bear.

Take these two points, then add in that a player came out and voted him right away today and I think that there is certainly smoke here.

I've also weighed a couple of possibilities of how this would not work out well for the villagers. Probably tops on that list is that Lathum is the Sympathizer and is deliberately creating an exercise that wastes our time by creating that 1:1 trade that Clap has been pointing out this morning. But I think Lathum would probably have waited one more day to spring that, especially since the Sympathizer role would "scan good".

Overall, I think the risk/reward on this vote beats a random vote on another villager. I'm willing to move if someone can come out and create a more convincing case for getting a wolf than what I see around PB right now.

Oh, and in the event that Lathum is leading us in the wrong direction then at least PB has told us he has a minor role. So we wouldn't be making a really big mistake lynching him, right? That is a very distant consideration in my decision but I figured I would add it as well to more or less wrap up my thought process on the vote as it stands right now.

The only reason I don't like putting together long posts like this on my thoughts is that it potentially provides an outlet for other people to justify their votes. Normally I like to sit on some of this stuff for at least a little while to see how others read the situation.

But putting it this way helps me get some perspective, and try to see if both sides are right here. Maybe Lathum's role lets him block someone from making an action, and the combination of him choosing to block PB, combined with no kill, means that Lathum is thinking that the odds are better on PB than anyone else, as far as he's concerned?

Pass, what you are describing sounds an awful lot like the ability we just lost with NTN. I would be mildly surprised if there were that much overlap between good villager roles.

All I can say is I have my reasons for voting PB. If others chose to follow that's fine, but I am not going to openly campaign against him. Sorry for being so cryptic but I can't go into more detail.

You certainly didn't have to put it in a long post if you didn't want to. I would have been satisfied if all you had said was that it's not just because of Lathum's actions.

you were very passive aggressive in defending certain players and possible mechanics and whatnot.

That's a good point. Then again, we have 20+ people all with some kind of role? I could see it. But I'll have to look up ntn's role again to remind myself.

I don't really see myself as passive aggressive here -- just trying to tap in to what everyone is thinking, and how they view the game. And I certainly don't think I'm defending anyone today -- I don't trust anyone, you're all wolves, and the problem is that I can only vote for one of you!

this tells me its not based off some role, that you just decieed to vote before you went to bed. :)

An interesting choice to criticize EagleFan. As one of the top vote getters yesterday an attack by the Needies suggests (but certainly doesn't prove) that he's a regular patient. So, why would they direct their attention to someone who might have been a contender again today? NTN coming up good, EagleFan looking good, this leads us to consider PurdueBrad, the other votegetter from yesterday. It makes me wary about chasing PB.

(I think I'm remembering the vote getters correctly though I need to go back and write the numbers down.)

Just looked -- yeah, what I'm talking about sounds EXACTLY like ntn's role, which is probably what made me think of it. Poo.

Hey guys, without a reveal from either Lathum or I (which neither do I want nor can either of us do apparently), I have no reason or way to fight this.

Here are my thoughts the rest of the way for the village:

I would assume at least 1 of the first 5 on me are wolves.

I still am very suspicious of Telle (but given my ntn read, take it for what you will)

Martin D mildly pinged me but it is likely me over-personalizing his vote

I'll be around but I laid it all out yesterday. Also, for the seer or anyone else that got info about me last night: I'm probably not worth saving so do NOT reveal in anyway. In fact, I would encourage you to put a vote on me too just so the wolves can't do their own vote analysis.