Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**
 

Today, I learn that Vince McMahon really loves Dicks. :D

The championship match tonight was done really well. I like how they let both Cena and RVD come down the ramp before Lillian did her announcing. It gave it a championsip match feel.

I'm not positive, but I think pro wrestling might be fake.

and some of the athletes might be using steroids. :D

/Post made in jest
//former Pro Wrestling Fan

HAR!

Sorry

Does the name Pat Patterson mean anything to you?
;)

Never heard of him. ;)

A more accurate description would be "choreographed”. There’s nothing fake about the torn anterior cruciate ligaments, herniated disks, separated shoulders, concussions, broken collarbones, etc.

there is when they claim a fake injury on TV to get a guy some time off :D

Hey, I said I wasn't positive :)

Check out this video of the Undertaker's highly controversial new gimmick. I think it could really take off.

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c27mDqVjyqc&search=breaking%20fab

Oh ya, and TV is absolutely littered with fake entertainment - pro wrestling, Law and Order, CSI, Desperate Housewives, The Simpsons, American Idol, Survivor, and the NBA, just to name a few.

Here's some news regarding the new ECW show:

hxxp://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/42324/Vince-McMahon-Looks-To-Be-Taking-Control-of-ECW.htm


So it looks like ole Vinny Mac is going to pry the one thing that Paul Heyman can do right away from him: To run a show. I guess he'll be like Eric Bischoff and just be a character on the show.

dola

ECW did a 2.2 last night. It's been slowly going down each week. I wonder if Sci-Fi will keep the show if it continues to slip in the ratings?

It's an awful show. It's like TNA's ugly step-sister.

Personally, I like the last two shows because of the main events. The rest of the show was pretty bland.

I have always hated ECW. Add in the fact that the shows have been poor, and you can see that I am pretty biased.

lol

It's the same show every week. An opening match, a stupid vampire, the exhibitionist stripping which gets stopped, sandmann hits someone with a stick 3 times, big show destroys tommy dreamer, main event. Has that not been the ECW show the past 2 weeks? There's only one hour and they waste it by filling it with crap instead of longer matches.

I agree with you. I think that they would be better served if they had 3-4 long matches (10-20 minutes apiece). Eventually, the audience (both the live and TV) is going to get tired of the same matches.

I hope the Dreamer/Big Show angle pays off eventually as well.

"THANK YOU SIR. MAY I HAVE ANOTHER!?" classic.

According to one of the websites I read, SciFi was hoping to pull in a 1.1 rating for the show, so they are probably quite happy with how well it has been doing.

The first show was awful, the last couple have been improving. They're going to be losing Angle for awhile as he needs to take some time off to heal some injuries, but it sounds like CM Punk will be showing up soon, so I have some hope. Especially once they get the WWE belt off Van Dam so Edge and Cena will go away.

Test is coming too.

Punk, Doring & Roadkill, Francine, and C.W. Anderson have been appearing on house shows. Not sure why they haven't been on TV yet.

I read on the Torch website that VKM has indeed taken control of the show. Jeez, what a power trip that guy is on. I mean, would it be so bad if Heyman was allowed to have control of the "promotion", let him book it himself, tape it in a small arena? Heaven forbid ECW become a compelling viable product.

I think the biggest problem with the way the ECW show's are being run right now is that Vince genuinely thought that he could slap the letters ECW on ANYTHING and people would turn out in droves, just like they did for the previous ECW DVD releases. That hasn't exactly happened, but I wouldn't call it a failure either.

Enough has been said about the first episode of ECW TV and I would prefer not to acknowledge it's existence anymore, but I can honestly say that I have enjoyed the last two shows. Both had some of the better TV matches I have seen in awhile, and I love that they have turned RVD into "everybody’s favorite wrestler" again. :) In fact, the only thing I really can't stand are the "Kelly" segments. Jim Cornette (sp) said it best, "if I wanted porn, I'd watch porn".

Does it feel like the "old ECW"? No. One of the key ingredients that it's lacking is the fan interaction. You don't have the intimacy of a smaller venue taping after Smackdown!. But it does feel different from RAW, even if everybody that gets significant air time is actually from RAW.

ECW will not exist long if it is just a one hour ad for RAW, and that is my biggest fear as to where it is going.

Yep - I bought tix to see Smackdown in DC on the 15th of August. It is billed as "Smackdown / ECW", so they plan on keeping ECW far removed from what helped to make it popular and tape it in a giant arena.

re: TNA Impact 6/29

See, it's not impossible to have storylines that make sense. The whole Sting/Cage sub-plot makes sense in the context that it's being presented in. And Cage's acting is actually selling the storyline. Okay, it's not Oscar-worthy stuff but it does enhance the plot, his facial expressions & body language match the story that's being told. And that's how it's supposed to work.

Meanwhile, they've done what had to be done by getting the X Division Title back in play and TAFKA Lo-Ki is the right man to carry the belt for a while.

Of course, nothing is without problems. The LAX storyline needs to be dropped muy pronto. I'm also not happy that Diamonds in the Rough have basically been told they aren't needed for the rest of the summer (although I'm mostly unhappy about that because I know David Young a little bit & think he's a helluva good guy and one of the best sellers on the roster). They also still have to produce the only satisfactory ending to the Nash-Sabin feud and since Nash reportedly has complete creative control of his storylines I'm not going to relax until Sabin pins him clean.

And I like the Eric Young comedy bits, it's good usage of him at the moment & plays well into the impending dissolution of Team Canada.

It's a shame TNA's best mix of compelling character/awesome wrestler Homicide is relegated to a stupid racisim angle. The guy can go hardcore and wrestle. Imagine New Jack with talent and not so pyscho. A Homicide/Low Ki(Senshi) feud would be awesome, but it won't happen.

If the dirt sheets are accurate, Homicide's status is compromised because of some backstage heat. For whatever reason(s) the guy has been apparently about as popular with management as a case of the clap. But in an old interview (July 2004) he speaks highly of Cornette so that's at least one more relationship that he might build on & get back into the mix.

Yeah, I know, Cornette's not really running the show but often it seems that the more people you have saying things in your favor backstage then the better your standing becomes.

Nash isn't going to relax until he pins Joe clean, so I guess we have a bit of a problem. The best thing to do is pray for Nash to blow out his knee seconds after climbing into the ring, and then we don't have to see him for another year.

going back to Monday night's episode of raw, was anyone else laughing out loud at Vince's music video...i meant to slow it down and look at the "musicians" to see who they were, i know one was jake roberts, but i could have sworn the one in the middle was jerry lawler. that was some funny ass shit, imo.

Yeah, that whole segment with DX was hilarious. Shawn hopping around like he had ADHD was a riot. HHH doing his worst Vinny Mac impersonation was golden. The video was just the icing on the cake for me. :D

:kiss:
I was totally laughing, but I think it went on a bit long.

Doh!

hxxp://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/42445/WWE-ECW-News:-RVD-and-Sabu-Cited-on-Drug-Charges.htm

This will be the first major test for the new Wellness Program now that their champion and a major player in their new brand extension have been caught with illegal drugs.

I have a feeling that the punishments will not be severe though. They have too much riding with getting the new ECW off the ground. I will suspect that they may strip the title off of RVD and job them both to death, but I don't think that they will lose any days at work.

Are they going to be terminated?

hxxp://www.wwe.com/inside/news/22092481

Edit--found the article on WWE.com

I doubt anyone in the WWE is surprised RVD smokes pot, who doesn't know he is a pot-head? I'd say that's a big reason why he never got a push, and low and behold when they give him one.....


And as far as the vicodin go, it's reasonable to think that after the guy wrestled 3 nights in a row, and 4 times in a week that he may have been using them for actual medical purposes.

I'd be amazed if VKM actually stepped up & did that, but then again, him doing anything right qualifies as amazing.

Personally, I'd just like to take a baseball bat to both guys for their stupidity. Sucks to be a parent & try to explain crap like this to your kid. Then again, my son's most common question about baseball is "do you think XYZ is using steroids" so I guess this wasn't a big shock to him either, just disappointing.

shoot, i d think Sabu Couldnt get out of bed without prescription drugs to dull the pain of destroying his body over the life of his wrestling career.

Will be interesting to see how they deal with it. I could care less if either of them, or both of them, were fired.

Doubt that they will be since Masters is just off of TV for being on the juice, and Joey Mercury is off TV for drugs as well. So they might just do the same with RVD & Sabu.

Looks like they are taking the title off RVD.

In all honesty, I am trying to watch this....and I can't, I really can't take it......

Vince loves cocks! hahaha

No surprise with that finish, RVD can say goodbye to his push for a long time - too bad since he was working pretty hard.

lol @ The King: "RVD's title run goes up in smoke."

HHH also took a dig at the creative team during the BBQ segment: "Who's writing this shit?"

Dola,

I'm assuming RVD will be losing the ECW title tomorrow now.

I would think so. He's probably going to rehab if he wants to keep his job.

Rehab for POT?

I've never smoked ANYTHING, and have certainly never used drugs, but isn't rehab a little ridiculous for a pot smoker? That's like sending a guy who's found with a 12 pack of Natty Light to the Betty Ford clinic.

The dude is a pill popper too.

Big Show is the new ECW champ.

ECW is officially dead.

I think it was brilliant. The reaction by the crowd was priceless.

Thank goodness.

So RVD and Sabu is suspended for awhile now?

probably at least suspended. Chris Masters has been suspended since late May for steroids, so probably it will be worse for them for the drugs + being arrested.

unbelievable how snuffed out our expectations can bewhen it comes to VKM.

I tried. I really did, but I can't watch it.

The WWE website has RVD being suspended for 30 days.

Not sure where ECW goes from here. Who exactly do they put up against the Big Show with RVD and Sabu suspended and Kurt Angle out of action to let some injuries heal. The storyline could actually work well, but I don't know that they have the players needed.

At least CM Punk made his debut, even if it was only a quick vignette. Looks like they're not changing his persona, so he could move up pretty quickly.

Despite the result I thought the RVD/Big Show match wasn't half bad. I liked the powerbomb/chair shot spot and the crowd reaction to the ending was great.

Loved the "You take steroids" chant at Test and the "Marijuana" chant during the RVD match. Dang, smart marks...

Looks like it's put up or shut-up time for the WWE Wellness program.

http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/22092481

13. DISCIPLINE FOR VIOLATION OF LAW
Any Talent who is arrested, convicted or who admits to a violation of law relating to use, possession, purchase, sale or distribution of prohibited drugs will be in material breach of contract and subject to immediate dismissal.

Well, "subject to" means the company has the option. It does not mean it's a mandatory result.

According to WWE.com, RVD has been suspended for 30 days (at least in the storyline).

I wonder what happens to Sabu? Considering he had a promo on last night's show... I don't think he'll get more than the same suspension RVD got.

I don't know about Big Show as ECW champ. Will he feud with Dreamer now over the title?

Battle of the backfat?

I am desperately trying to remain positive about this whole situation so here are few thoughts...

1) This could actually be a good thing... wrestling almost always works better with a heel champion with a face chasing the title. So if they can turn this into RVD chasing the title back (which really never happened considering he was given the ECW belt) it could end up being a very strong program. Big Show represents everything ECW should not be, and at the same time, is exactly what Vince's ECW has become. It all depends on Dreamer and Big Show keeping the fire hot for the next 30 days.

2) The debut of CM Punk could not have come at a more perfect time considering his “straight edge” lifestyle/gimmick. Would have liked him to have a little more time to get that across, but hopefully this will come next week.

3) OK, so there isn’t a third good point, this sux :(

Heres the deal, old ECW fans could give a shit about the product at this point. WWE fans could give a shit about the product at this point. See where the problem lies? Outside of CM Punk I have zero need to watch this show ever again so i'll just take to downloading it and skipping to his segment.

Here are the punishments regarding RVD and Sabu:

hxxp://www.wwe.com/inside/news/rvdsabucharges

Just an odd curiosity that's crossed my mind a few times over the years -- how exactly is Terry Brunk "fined" X amount by the WWE?

I mean, is being subject to "fines" for guys who are ultimately just contract employees of a corporation something that is spelled out contractually or in a case like this is it merely a euphemism for "we're docking your pay by X amount".

edit to attempt to clarify what I mean -- Usually wrestlers are "fined" in the context of kayfabe but in this case (and a couple of recent TNA mentions in the dirt sheets), the word is being used in the same manner that an organization like MLB or the NFL levies a fine as a penalty. In those cases, I assume that it's something spelled out as a possibility in the collective bargaining process, or in the case of NASCAR it'd be a disciplinary process spelled out as part of the membership agreement ... but pro wrestling really has neither of those things, so I'm wondering how these types of fines are actually handled.

Only a $1000 fine for Sabu? I thought he was charged with the more serious offense? No suspension at all is a joke.

Meanwhile, back in the Impact Zone ... Samoa Joe channels both Mike Tyson & Taz to cut a promo for Victory Road ;)

Meanwhile, Rhino's taped promo really was what Don West said: the most passionate thing we've ever heard from him.

Y'know, between Rhino & Joe and the recent body of work from Christian, I believe TNA is fully one step closer to being able to transition away from using the older workers to provide personality. Of course, on the other end of the spectrum there's Monty Brown, a man who should be kept as far away from a microphone as possible. If anything, I think he may be regressing ... and that's a scary thought.

Meanwhile, somebody ought to have Andy Douglas checked for brain damage.
If the dirt sheets are accurate & he's risked both the planned push and perhaps even his job because he didn't want to get his hair cut for the angle, he's gotta be nuts.

Truer words have never been spoken - egads he's awful.

I could not agree more... the thing that has really held TNA back (aside from the juvenile name, why don't they just call it NWA?), has been it's reliance on Jarrett in the main event spot. But something tells me that's not going to change anytime soon.

And the Pounce is just flat out awful. If he hits it perfectly it looks ok. More often it looks like he jumps in his opponent's general direction and they fall like a soccer player.

Me, too. MLB, NFL, etc. have a collective bargaining agreement where the process for fines is created. And, I am sure, the fines all end up going to some third party charity that is neither the league or the union.

Here, does WWE just keep the money? I guess that it does not really matter in the end since they have the right to fire him and I am sure that he'd just rather give up the cash.

But it would be really strange for me to show up for work on Monday and have my boss say, "We caught you stealing paperclips from the supply closet last week, so we are going to pay you $1,000 less this month."

Fines are just weird outside of the organized sports context.

It's another example of the many benefits the WWE gets from making sure that the talent are legally considered "independent contractors" rather than "employees".

I'm sure the WWE's lawyers work to maintain this distinction, but it sure does seem teneous, considering that the talent isn't allowed to work in a wrestling capacity for anyone else, and the WWE controls every aspect of how the talent does their job.

Not to get too lawyer on you all but, it would be next to impossible for Vince to maintain his roster as independent contractors.

Taken from the IRS website:

Which leads to the argument that since Vince/Pat Patterson/whoever lays out the match, then they are exhibiting control over their work. What happens when a workers such as Flair, who likes to call it in the ring, is probably not a situation that the IRS intended on deciding.

Further,


The bottom line is this: Vince controls what matches they will have, what public appearances they will have, what TV show they will appear on, how much TV time they will get, and most importantly; the ultimate winner of their match. If the key in determining independent contractor/employee is control, there is no doubt that Vince has the control.

I absolutely agree, which is why I'm so puzzled that the distinction has apparently survived in the business.

Of course, wrestlers aren't likely to challenge the WWE legally, for fear of being blacklisted

You are completely right... the key word is "blacklisted".

It's the same reason that there are no wrestling unions... nobody will dare stand up to Vince. Especially now that he is the only show in town (TNA isn't a truly viable option yet).

Getting back to TNA potentially using older wreslters primarily to give the younger guys a rub...that is why I really like them signing Scott Steiner. He may be awful in the ring - not as bad as most old guys - but he's always been willing to put a younger guy over in the ring. He did it in WCW a ton in the last months of the company, and he'll probably be a good company guy for TNA. Hell, he did the job for Joe, didn't he?

He's a guy that I was truly & genuinely disgusted by seeing get a contract at all but I can't disagree one bit that, to this point at least, has performed not only a valuable role but performed it well in the process.

I still don't trust him not to cause problems outside the ring, heck I still don't trust TNA not to screw this up & decide to start putting the guy over, but I can't argue with the usage or the results so far.

Which brings me to continued concerns about whether the Nash/Sabin angle will get screwed up when all is said & done. The upcoming tag match is obviously feud filler and is meant to extend the storyline another month. It's not exciting but at least I understand the purpose of it. But the payoff needs to come in August, and nothing other than a clean pin by Sabin is an acceptable outcome. But the phrase "creative control" worries me greatly, especially when Nash is involved.

edit to add -- You also brought up a good general point about the use of the overall use of veterans to provide a rub. I think it's been interesting to watch how Sting has actually provided that for Christian through an angle, rather than by losing. Not unheard of, but not the most common way of doing it either. I think that's roughly the same thing that was underway with Shane Douglas & The Naturals, albeit to a far lesser degree.

A bigger topic for another time perhaps, but it might be interesting to go back sometime & look at various stars to see how much "the rub" affected their careers versus those who never got one but got over in spite of that. That notion came to mind as I was thinking about some guys who are over but haven't gone that route to get there, Styles particularly came to mind as someone who got over on their own skill set more than anything else.

TNA signed Homicide.

About f'ing time.

Now they need to use the guy.

this weeks raw blows....over an hour into the show, and there has only been one match plus a diva match....and dx hasnt even shown up yet.

dola, and who exactly are they trying to entice to watch ECW tomorrow by setting up a Big Show vs. Ric Flair title match.....that is destined to be shitty.

I couldn't watch all of RAW. Not because I didn't set aside the time, but because it sucked. Since when can another brand's wrestlers just show up on the other brands? I ignored it for a bit, but hate it now. These are supposed to be three separate "brands," yet with ECW recaps on RAW and Smackdown and Heyman and Big Show showing up on RAW freely... this is stupid.

I hate all the brand extensions. I haven't watched Smackdown since it became it's own brand. ECW may as well be considered another extension, named WWECW. Vince should rename Smackdown to WCW.

If that's not bad enough, rumors are that Vince wants to add two more brand extensions in the next couple of years. Ugh.

i barely finished watching it last night....possibly the worst episode of raw ever....i didnt even tivo the disaster that is sure to be ecw for tonight...it would hurt too much

Big Show vs. Ric Flair. Just like the good old days in ECW

yeah, 10 years ago before flair was collecting social security!!! there is absolutley no spot those two can run tonight or angle they can play that will not suck

I am watching ECW tonight to see CM Punk. He's my only reason for watching.

Dola - no garunteers he even debuts in the ring tonight.

As bad as this WWECW trainwreck is, there could be at least some trivial value in having Flair pull off the upset tonight, as it would make him the only person to have won World Titles in the NWA, WCW, WWF/E, and ECW.

Odd bit of wrestling trivia for you: prior to RVD & Big Slow accomplishing the feat in the new (mockery of) ECW, there were two previous wrestlers that had won both an ECW World Title and another recognized World Title (as acknowledged by PWI)

Can you name them (without looking it up)?

For the record, one of them I would have gotten but the other had slipped my mind.

Snuka and Shane Douglas?

eddie guerrero and chris benoit? (never watched a ton of ecw, so i dont know if they ever had the belt)

Terry Funk would be one. No idea about the other - Neither Benoit nor guerrero were ECW champs.

Dola - would Raven count? (TNA and ECW)

TazFTW is right -- Snuka was the first ECW Champion, and Shane Douglas is a former NWA Champion.

TazFTW -- Nope. Snuka never won any other top title despite challenging for them on numerious occasions and Douglas isn't counted because the ECW WHT was not "recognized" as a World Title until after the show debuted on TNN in 1999.

saldana -- Nope. Neither of those two great young lions ever won the top title in ECW.

Steve Corino and Rhino have been TNA/NWA champs.

molson - Funk misses the same way Snuka & Douglas missed, the "recognition" stipulation I mentioned. Ditto Raven.

That's actually an even bigger "catch" to the question than I first realized (as I had forgotten that Funk would also qualify).

By my own reckoning (as opposed to PWI's), I would have counted Douglas' second reign (the night he threw down the NWA title marking the starting point & not truly a double) as the first, then Funk in April '97, and Raven's ECW reign in early '96 becoming eligible as the third when he won the NWA title in June of '06.

But none of those are the two I was referring to.

And MapleLeafs gets the answers I was looking for. Rhino was obvious to me but Corino's 2 month run in ECW was what I initially forgot about.

Another odd thing about Corino's reigns was that he lost both belts in 3-way dances -- ECW's to Sandman & Justin Credible and the NWA to Shinya Hashimoto & Gary Steele. Maybe not unique, but it seems unusual to lose two world titles that way.