OT- Ohio State #3 in the new BcS!
 

HUZZAH!!! All Ohio State fans on the board can cheer with me ;)

If OSU wins their last two games, I think they deserve to play for the championship.

If these three things happen, I think it'll be enough to put OSU over USC.

1)OSU wins out (duh)

2)LSU needs to lose so OSU jumps to #3 in the polls

3)Georgia loses (so USC doesn't get the win bonus)

Think this would be enough? It'd be darn close if the above 3 things happened. We'll see.

GO BUCKS!!! :D

USC is better :p.

I still contend that the two polls (AP and ESPN/Coaches) are much more accurate than the BCS poll.

I think USC is a far better team.

Which is probably why USC is at a solid #2 in the real polls while OSU is at #4.

Yup, probably.

Re: OT- Ohio State #3 in the new BcS!
 

USC will be playin if they win out. How does USC get a win bonus if the 'dawgs lose?

I am an LSU fan. Accordingly, I want them to play for the BCS championship.

I have no better argument concerning why they belong in the Sugar Bowl as opposed to USC or OSU, but I do feel that I am at least more honest than most fans.

It's not really that surprising to me that OSU is at number 3. I think it is definitely realistic that LSU could lose either against Ole Miss, or in the SEC title game, if they get there. But to me there is a much bigger chance that USC will go undefeated the rest of the way than Ohio State. I really do think they will lose at least one of the last two, and possibly both.

I would disagree. I think there is a problem when Florida State is ranked ahead of Miami in both polls, despite the fact that Miami beat FSU at FSU.

I also have a problem with Ole Miss being ranked behind Florida, even though Ole Miss is 1.5 games better, and beat Florida at the swamp.

Pittsburgh is also below VT and Tennessee is only 1 spot ahead of Miami in 1 poll, despite destroying them.

I am sure there are other errors.

ummmm no. the fact that they aren't as good as Oklahoma, USC, LSU, Michigan, and Georgia, but besides those teams, they might deserve to get in. Their pretty good, just not nearly good enough to get into the Championship game

Overrated.

Yeah USC plays in that Pac 10 conference that doesnt believe in defense. Put them in any other top conference and they would not fair that well. OSU doesnt win by convincing fashion but they win. It doesnt matter who is 2nd because Oklahoma will destroy anyone they play.

If enough believe that, than that's why subjectives polls are better (not perfect, Mac). Sometimes you have to go on gut feel like in saying that there are 5 teams better than OSU.

I am a Gopher fan, and i believe they should play for the national championship because they beat the Badgers.

Wait a minute, wrong thread.

I think TCU should play if they refuse to lose.

Battle of the Unbeatens is how it should be, good conference or not (to a point).

Surprised?

you are a tool

I'm a USC alum through and through, but I currently work for LSU so I find myself rooting for them as well. However, I truly believe USC is at least the 2nd best team in the nation and the only team which could make the national title game interesting at this point. I hope the Trojans don't get overtaken by the Buckeyes in the BCS poll.

:rolleyes:

(hint: punch up the numbers on the "no defense" Pac-10 sometime)

CR

I'm a Buckeye fan and obviously a homer, but if OSU wins out, it will give them wins over 4 teams that are currently ranked, and 2 that are currently in the Top 10. The only other team on your list that can match that would be Michigan, and they're out of it assuming a loss to Ohio State. Am I saying that OSU is the best team in the country right now? Not hardly, but they have a pretty good case for a Suger Bowl berth if they win out.

Winning out is a pretty big if, but you're dismissing them far too easily.

Number can be decieving. Penn St is has one of the highest ranked passing defenses but that is because their run defense stinks. Numbers can be misleading but i though you might already know that.

According to CNNSI

Pac 10 Scoring Defenses

23 Wash St 19 ppg
25 USC 19.4 ppg
35 UCLA 21.0 ppg
43 Oregon St 22.0 ppg
58 Washington 24.3 ppg
59 California & Stanford 24.5 ppg
78 Oregon 28.4 ppg
80 Arizona St 28.7 ppg
106 Arizona 35.6 ppg

With 117 teams in the division 1-a the Pac 10 has half its conference in the top half of scoring defense which isnt that bad. When considering that they dont have anyone in the top 20 that doesnt look too good. Look at the big ten, they have 4 teams in the top 11 in scoring defense. The Pac Ten does play a more upbeat style of offense, but to say they have quality defensive teams is a little crazy too.

Numbers can be misleading, which is why you have to be careful when you use them.

Making baseless comments like the "no defense" Pac-10 without backing that up also makes that comment misleading and worthless, though. For instance, on what do you base this on? Some local writer told you that? Because you only saw scoring highlights Sunday morning from Pac-10 night time games? Because football isn't played west of the Rockies? I would enjoy hearing why you think this, and please, provide some factual support for the stance.

The fact is, it is a myth and very much not true. It's a different game out west, yes, but I don't think Pac-10 teams are any worse at defense than other conferences.

I could just as easily say the Big Ten is this stodgy, low-offense boring conference where the most exciting play is when the big back moves the pile four yards instead of three. Would that be fair to the Big Ten? Or remotely accurate? No. But that's the impression many get about the Big Ten.

The point is, you have to be diligent enough to look deeper at the numbers and not just make assumptions because a talking head told you so.

If you don't think the Pac-10 has defenses, then you must have missed all of USC's, Wazzu's and UCLA's games for instance, since they are three of the better defenses in football. Pretty odd to have three good defenses like that in a "no defense" league, eh?

CR

The fact they have to face those quality offenses is more than a little important, don't you think?

You called the Pac-10 the "no defense" league. I see some pretty solid numbers there for a no defense league.

How can you just throw out the numbers and not consider what they are going up against?

CR

I dont see really solid number so you say. Maybe there is a reason that the teams score so much on each other...ever think of that? Having half the league in the lower half doesnt show well for great defenses.

I agree.

Since Conference games are a bad sample for this lets look at the OOC schedule for the Pac 10.

ND 29
Wash St 26
The best defense in the Pac 10 gives up 29 to ND, a 3-6 team.

Kansas St 48
Cal 28


Wash 47
Colorado 26

Utah 31
Calif 24

USC 61
Hawaii 32
The best team in the Pac 10 gives up 32 to an okay Hawaii team. I can see this one, Hawaii has an explosive offense.

Purdue 59
Arizona 7
An inept Big Ten offense puts up 59 on Arizona.

Michigan 27
Oregon 31
Another Big Ten offense puts up almost 30 on a good Pac Ten team.

Oklahoma 59
UCLA 24
It could have been worse. At least it wasnt 77.

USC 45
ND 14
Good showing here (Seriously :D )

I am not saying that the Pac 10 defensively is terrible but I dont think it is as good as you say.

Pac-10 Scoring Offenses

6 USC 40.2
25 Oregon State 31.9
32 Washington State 31.3
45 Califonria 29.4
52 Washington 27.8
67 Oregon 26.1
73 Arizona State 25.1
91 UCLA 20.4
92 Stanford 20.0
103 Arizona 17.4

Avg Scoring Offense Rk = 58.6 av rk
Avg Scoring Offense Pt = 27.0 ppg

Big-10 Scoring Offenses

5 Minnesota 40.9
10 Michigan 37.0
41 Michigan State 29.8
49 Purdue 28.5
58 Iowa 26.9
63 Wisconsin 26.4
74 Ohio State 25.0
98 Northwestern 19.2
105 Penn State 17.1
109 Illinois 16.6
113 Indiana 15.4

Avg Scoring Offense Rk = 65.9 av rk
Avg Scoring Offense Pt = 25.7 ppg

The Pac-10 defenses would fare better, too, if they got to go against the awe-inspiring offenses of Northwestern, Penn State, Illinois and Indiana.

CR

You see if you would read my posts i was not turning this into a Pac Ten - Big Ten debate. But no matter what I say you still wont believe me. I NEVER said they they were terrible defensively I just dont believe that they are as good as you think. I guess we will wait till bowl season to see.

Your individual scores mean nothing, logically. They are single examples. You need to look at the whole numbers.

Also, scoring isn't necessarily an indicator of solid, effective defense. Scoring encompasses all facets of football, including special teams scoring and defensive touchdowns, not to mention turnovers leading to quick scores that aren't necessarily an indictment of the defense which had to walk on the field into a sudden red-zone situation.

For example, you point out the Oklahoma-UCLA game, but make no effort to point out that three OU touchdowns came on punt return scores by Antonio Perkins. Being a little misleading, aren'y you?

Please, stick to logically and statistically valid arguments. I'm not going to get into this if you're just going to bring up irrelevancies.

CR

But you would say the Big Ten plays good defense wouldn't you? I seem to recall it was you that brought up the "four Big Ten teams in the top 11" comment. Did I misread that?

CR

That was just an example. I would divulge into more conferences but i neither have the time nor the energy to sit here and try to go through it all.

Give me a break. I dont know why I even try to argue with you anymore.

It's frustrating when someone actually demands you to back up your assumptions with statistically valid evidence, isn't it? Your'e right that would frustrate me, too, if I didn't know how to do it.

And, yes, I am pretty sick of arguing with you, too.

CR

whoever posts lasts wins

lol...let's not establish that rule. Since I know Brian is stubborn and so am I, this could go on forever if we do that. :)

CR

What isnt valid from what I posted. I didnt just pull those numbers out of my ass. You just think they are irrelevent because they dont back your arugement.

Like I said we will get a better sample of all of this come bowl season. There we wont have the crappy teams like Arizona, Illinois, PSU, and other crappy teams clutters the stats. Until then I am out.

They are statistically irrelevant against the numbers as a whole, because the season stats provide a far more accurate picture than individual games picked out. I could do the same, exact thing and pick out games that support my argument, but I don't because I know that would logically and statistically invalid and irrelevant to do so.

I fall back on the numbers on a whole, which, as I have demonstrated, back up what I was saying more than they do what you're saying.

I'm not pulling this stuff out of my ass, Brian, and I would hope by now you would have more respect for what kind of faith I put intot his stuff, considering some of the other numbers-heavy things I have done in our related communities. Unfortunately, you just assume I am discounting what you're saying because it disagrees with me. Rather than resorting to ad hominems, why don't you actually provide a statistically-valid supporting argument for your stance (or one to take away from mine)?

CR

This thread sounds a lot like last year's Miami will kill OSU thread.

Ditto.



Don't rip on the Illini, it's a rebuilding year....a REBUILDING year. :( ;)



:(


GO TCU!

Yeah, the bowl games will decide it. :rolleyes:

Did your college actually require you to take logic or statistics? Mine did. I thought it was pretty common to see this sort of stuff in most universities general curriculum. I guess I was wrong.

CR

I never said you were pulling the stuff ou t of your ass. You seem to think i am pulling the numbers i am getting out of mine. Once again like you tell me to do...read my posts.

I will put up my college education against yours any day. Give me a friggin break.

Heh...I actually like the Illini. It was a very tough, close game at the Rose Bowl this year. We were lucky to pull that one out. I think you guys are rebuilding fine. Obviously, these things take time.

Funny, heh? The final score of that UCLA-Illinois game was 6-3. I guess that would be one of the games I would use if I used bsak's method of proving his point.

CR

Please, please, show me where in this thread I have told you you are pulling these numbers out of your ass? I am pointing out that they are statistically irrelevant. I am not discounting that they happened. I am just pointing out that against the weight of other evidence, they are relatively insignificant.

CR

Great, now you want it to be a "my dick is bigger than yours" argument. Fine. You win. You got the bigger dick. I don't want to do that.

I am just pointing out that there is very little of logic or statistical validity in your arguments here. And without them, all you have is essentially your own unfounded opinion.

CR

You see Chief I will enlighten you on this one. In college football bowl games you will not see conferences play each other. You claim that the Pac Ten plays a "different" style of football leading to their high scoring matches. That leads to them statistically giving up more yards and points to their opponents.

Here is where the hard part is, sit down take a deep breath and read. By playing teams from the Big Ten, SEC, Big 12, and whatever conference they will play in the bowl season they will get to see if they really are a great offensive conference as you claim. If they are than your arguement will be true, if they dont score much or give up a lot of points to teams that arent as good offensively as you claim than your arguement isnt as valid.

Also, here is the kicker, we will eliminate the worst teams that might skew the statisitcs ie PSU, Arizona, Indiana, Rutgers, whoever else. Then we can look at the cream of each conference and can get a better sample. If you would like me to draw a diagram let me know.

Yeah too bad all the games i looked at are from this year.

I have a degree from Syracuse and they are the National Basketball Champs, so I would say my dick is about an inch longer than either of you two pussies. :)

That isnt what Melissa said :p

i seen it!

who did Melissa say was the National Basketball Champs?

This is the only time that Marm gets to brag about his two inch penis. Let him have his moment.

owned. :p

You?

Marm gave you a show Shorty?


First the Hustler store and now getting a peak of the Great Marm and his lil Orange man.

I think you sell LSU short. They are capable of playing with anyone in the country right now, though I would agree Oklahoma and USC are properlyl ranked 1 and 2. But LSU is capable of playing with anyone, as are imo about 7 or 8 teams right now. I don't think anyone is dominant, even Oklahoma.

LSU has a tough road ahead, though, facing Alabama and Ole Miss on the road after an off week. I know Saban said he really wishes LSU could have kept playing without the off week. Bama is always potentially dangerous and Ole Miss will be playing with a great deal of emotion in Eli's last home game. After those games, LSU must beat Arkansas and the win the SECCG (I hope against Florida) and then let the BCS chips fall where they may. LSU has a tough road, but if they are a truly great team, then they have to handle that kind of challenge.

Too bad LSU's out of conference schedule was so weak, though of course that was not entirely their fault, with teams backing out on them.

Too bad also that Va. Tech has decided to likewise chicken out of a game at LSU early next season after LSU played and lost at Va. Tech early last season. It will be hard for LSU to find a quality opponent for a home game at the start of next season at this point.

I think she calls it the pulp

Fixed that for you baby. :cool:

So you're saying she can never squeeze anything out of it?

Way to use my joke you unoriginal bastard.

Marm's been seedless for a LONG time.

You guys can go on and on, but really, you are the ones arguing about the Pac10 and Penn State. Is there anything any more insignificant in college football these days?

If Marm keeps exposing himself to Shorty, he'll be wearing a different type of orange suit...w/ shackles... :)

This thread needs some drunken Schmidty to top it off...

Syracuse?

I have a hard time believing that OSU wins out.

USC has the easier road than the Buckeyes, but part of me wants TCU to get in somehow.

I think 'SC gets the Sugar Bowl invite, OSU stumbles in Ann Arbor. (as they should)

Yeah your sex life :D

Someone speaks from experience it seems.

First of all, this isn't about which conference is better than the other. This is about the Pac-10's ability to play defense, and your lack of belief in such. I am not even stating that the Pac-10 is a better defensive conference. I am just saying that it is no worse in general than the other conferences. Yet you assume it's the no-defense conference, for reasons I have yet to see statistical support for (still waiting there, guy...).

Passing offense has always been more prevalent in the Pac-10 and other western conferences than the power conferences back east. I'm not sure why this is, but it's been this way for a while. And the fact is that passing generates huge chunks of yards, when compared to the much more reliable, steady running game.

With so many offenses based around this, you end up with a lot of high-scoring games out here. That doesn't mean defense isn't being played or that they aren't any good defenses out here, or any good defensive players. The style of play out here is very strongly connected to the numbers you are seeing from the defenses.


Can you give me one reason why I shouldn't just tell you to fuck off for this comment right here? I am reading your posts. Stop treating me like a moron. At least when I point out the alck of statistical validity in your argument, it is a factual statement (based on your posts up to now in this thread).


I never said the Pac-10 is a great offensive conference. I said they score more points. This is, again, because of the style of play. You see, this cuts both ways. You can also make the same faulty assumption that the Pac-10 is a great offensive conference because they score more points. That's not true either. They are no better offensively than other conferences as a whole, nor worse defensively. Obviously, this can vary from year-to-year (for instance, I think the Big Twelve is fantastic this year), but generally, I think the big conferences get roughly equivalent levels of talent on both sides of the ball, when taken as a whole.

Since I never said they were a great offensive conference, then the rest of your paragraph is irrelevant (even if it would have been relatively statistically invalid anyway).


We're talking about conferences as a whole, aren't we? That means both the bad and the good. The Big Ten is not just Michigan and Ohio State and Iowa and Wisconsin. It's all 11 teams. Same with the Pac-10. Does not an all-encompassing opinion like "the Pac-10 has no defense" also refer to Arizona or Stanford as well as USC or Washington State?

The best teams can also skew the statistics, just as easily as the worst teams. For instance, Minnesota and Michigan are pretty darn good offensive teams. But you take them out of the equation and the Big Ten looks absolutely pathetic on offense. Is that fair to the Big Ten and the quality of football that is played there? No, it isn't.


You know what? I should just tell you to fuck off. You're a real shit, you know that, Brian? Fuck you, I'm out of this thread.

CR

URRRR SOOOOOO INSENSTIVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!


better swaggs?

:rolleyes: My sex life has what to do with college football? You must have thought we were talking about Melanie still.

.


Please compare the record of Syracuse to the record of Penn State this season.

And we are a basketball school.

I guess you wont be getting a Christmas card from me this year :D

They have the same premise... 11 guys pounding you from behind.

hmmm, Miami, Florida State, and Virginia Tech.

I bet the folks that run the ACC are THRILLED. at that.

P.S. The Illinois-UCLA game was played in September.

CR

I appreciate the effort, bubby, but it just isn't the same... :(

They still have better records than the teams the Big East has or are courting.

In football, and basketball as well. :) Boy, I was pissed at the time, but sometimes you have to be careful for what you wish for. :)

Sorry I apologize for overlooking that.

Sad but true Easy Mac.

I'm a bigger hoops fan anyway.

Overall record for PSU vs Syracuse

PSU is 40-23-5

How is Joe Paterno like 80 years old with no gray hair?

Eh, I'm not an ACC fan anyway (except Duke b-ball, but thats just because I grew up during the Laettner, Hurley, Hill, Hill and Lang years... and yes, I still rooted for them despite the Cherokee, Capel, Collins years... I'd give anything to go to Cameron and watch a game)

So long as Ole Miss is playing for the national title, I'm happy.

Please. If you are going to mention this, you should also mention how JoePa ran scared and cancelled our annual game just when we got good.

shhhh. secret Soprano's cyborg.

Seriously, Sak. chief is presenting some solid statistical evidence. You should know better than to argue with cold hard numeric facts. :(

Come on... quit using crappy statistics. 68 games is not enough of a sample size to get an accurate pattern.

lmao

the ronnster is at it again

:D

Have you watched any other football besides Pac 10 football? The SEC lives and dies on the pass. Ever hear of the Fun and Gun at Florida? Tennessee with Peyton Manning, Tee Martin, Casey Classuen pass the ball. Kentucky with their fat ass QB Jarrod Lorenzen rely on the fastest white WR in college football Derek Abeny to jump start their offense. Purdue and Drew Brees brought the passing game into the Big Ten. The notion of the Power football in the east is greatly outdated. They might not pass as much as teams out west but the days of 3 yds and a cloud of dust are over.




Yeah for the same reason I haven told you to F off. You have questioned my intelligence and my education and when i called you out on it you made some comment about your dick.



Well you cant really have it both ways. If you score a lot of points there is something going on somewhere. You either lack on the defensive side of the ball or you have offenses that are so good that the defenses cannot keep up with them. As for the statistics, you can believe whatever you want to believe. If you dont think they are relevant thats fine, but numbers dont lie.




This is the reason why I point to the bowl season. It is where the best play the best. We will see which teams are pretender and which ones really are that good. Also, which ones are better than their records suggest. So if the PAC 10 scores more points (generally) than if they are that good offensively than they will do i against the cream of the crop from other divisons.

You can look at defense the same way. If the Big Ten suffers offensively (leading to better defensive numbers) than when they go up against quality teams from other conferences something will get exposed. The Big Ten could get exposed for poor defense because they play against shitty offensive teams in their conference. The Pac Ten could prove that they have good defenses but holding their out of conference opponents to low totals proving your point that the Pac Ten is not defenseless.

We will see in a few years when the series resumes. And enlighten me, when was Syracuse's last FOOTBALL national title?

sak, it was more recent than Penn State's last basketball title.

Ouch Cant argue with that. But at least we dont play in a wussy dome.

get it right.

"sissy" dome

FOFC fight card!
 

I propose we settle this the old fashioned way, with all out fisticuffs!

We don’t need to stop at one fight either; we could have a whole freaking card.

Other fights that can be consummated....

Alan Turlos vs. Swaggs
These two can finally settle there tension filled undertones and we can all finally be sure that it’s a lingering sense of violence, and not something sexual.

Vtbub vs. Foz
Nuff said.

Marmel vs. Shorty
I know for a fact that Marm is not happy about Shorty vouching for the size of his dick. Their affair was consummated in secret, and now that Shorty has brought out the dirty laundry, this will be very personal.

Koji vs. Andy Samford
You know I have to get into this. Quite frankly, I’m tired of his bong-rasping ass after years of flip-flopping the division in JBL. It’s about time I kicked his bitch ass.

Main event.

Bsak vs. Chief

Fuck Tyson-Jones, this is the real fight we all want to see. I proposed the fight be held in a UFC like octagon. They will be dressed in cap and gown stitched with there college colors. There will be no weapons involved, but they will be allowed to enter the ring with their college degrees.

I agree that LSU is very good and could beat just about anyone, but I don't think they are as consistently good as USC and Oklahoma. However, I agree that a lot of teams are avoiding them in out of conferenece scheduling which is unfortunate. Saban has done a great job with the program and I hope he hangs around for a few more years to continue his good work.

Koji needs to post more over here. :)