Brokeback Mountain
 

Biggest example of 'media masterbation' I have ever seen. Cannot pickup a newspaper or magazine or entertainment tv show without seeing more news coverage about this movie than you can about the current Christmas retail numbers. And the thing is, nobody cares about this movie what-so-ever. Talk Soup says the per-screen numbers is about a whole whopping $100,000 per-viewing. Then he says 'good luck in the red states!" Not even drawing crowds in NY or LA.

Biggest case of disconnect between media and audience I have ever seen. Can't help but wonder if only because of the high percentage of gays in Hollywood and Hollywood media coverage that this is being driven so relentlessly. BTW, the last is a valid observation (no different than liberals debating the number of Catholics on the Supreme Court and its possible impact on abortion law in the future).

Gee, y'think?

(actually, I believe it's a little deeper than that, but close enough for a Saturday morning)

I guess the high percentage of gorillas in Hollywood and the Hollywood media explains the insane amount of press I'm seeing about King Kong?

No, that would be a another issue: How can Hollywood continue to make alot of money when they have been completely bankrupt of new ideas? I know, lets remake the same movie again every 10yrs. Yeah, thats the ticket!

Four words:

Anne Hathaway's bare boobs

That'll make up for the gay cowboys for me...

I'm all about seeing Brokeback Mountain, but i've also got a PSA for everyone:

Anne Hathaway's bare boobs are also on display numerous times in the movie Havoc that was just released straight-to-DVD (after sitting on the studio shelf for 2 years). It's a decent movie, not great, not bad, but it requires a little patience.

Lets face it. The only reason you have an issue with this movie is because it shows gay people.

Gee, y'think?

They don't call me captain obvious for nothing

Whether or not Bubba's point is valid is not really the issue, in my opinion. I have heard from people who have no interest in any Hollywood causes say it is a very good movie.

By all indications, it is at the very least a quality film. Combine that with the fact that it's very unique in its presentation of a fairly old storyline, and it is not a surprise to me at all that the movie is getting plenty of press.

Got the video of the pertinent Havoc scenes saved to the computer already. But thanks for the info... :D

I havnt seen it but what if its good? could be bad, I dont know....BUT here is the question:

BW - Have you seen the movie yet? If not, than you might be what is defined as ignorant to know if it lives up to the hype or not.

according to Yahoo the cirtics (12 of them:

Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Eleanor Ringel Gillespie "Flawed but groundbreaking -- and beautifully done." more... B
Chicago Sun-Times
Roger Ebert "...(Ang) Lee respects the entire arc of his story, right down to the lonely conclusion." more... A
Chicago Tribune
Michael Phillips "Heath Ledger is a revelation as Ennis." more... A-
E! Online "...director Ang Lee takes gorgeous outside shots and wrangles up the emotion until you weep like a baby." more... A
Entertainment Weekly
Owen Gleiberman "Brokeback Mountain is that rare thing, a big Hollywood weeper with a beautiful ache at its center." more... A
filmcritic.com
David Thomas "...a work of universal substance..." more... A
New York Post
Kyle Smith "This is one of the best serious films about homosexuality ever made, but though it's sad and sobering it's still only a rough draft of a great movie." more... B
New York Times
Stephen Holden "...landmark..." more... A
ReelViews
James Berardinelli "The primary supporting actors deserve equal recognition." more... B
Rolling Stone
Peter Travers "...unmissable and unforgettable..." more... A
San Francisco Chronicle
Mick LaSalle "...pays attention to the nuances of expression, to the thoughts and emotions being articulated between the words and in the pauses." more... A
Seattle Post-Intelligencer
William Arnold "It's so poignant and unthreatening that its crossover appeal to women and straight men should be very strong." more... A-


then approx. 2400 users gave it a B....more than likely not all of them have seen it either BUT I dont need to slap you around with a class on statistics again, do I?

Except that isn't really the point.

It could be Ben-Hur, it could be Waterworld, but that really doesn't explain the amount of media hype this movie is getting.

Yes, I remember all the good press and great reviews that Passion of the Christ got, not to mention all of Mel Gibson's good press, seeing that particular movie grossed something like $340 million so far at least. And I believe that movie was pretty radical regarding what usually comes out of Hollywood. You said " A quality film telling an old story in a unique way...". Yes, its always about that isn't it?

BTW, first thing I thought of when this movie came out was the cowboy in the Village People. So driving home from Toronto yesterday and lo and behold, talk-show having an interview with 'the original gay cowboy from the Village People." Can't say I stayed tuned to hear it though.

the fact that its a unique story, getting critical acclaim, winning nominations left and right doesnt give reason to hype, and a new release?

I have a question for you Bubba. Do you think that moviemakers have no other interest in the creation of films than simply "connecting" with a mass audience?

My personal opinion is they definitely do.

It may very well be true that the quality of the film is being inflated by those who have a personal interest in its subject matter. Honestly, I have no idea. But it certainly wouldn't be the first time that's happened in film history.

It's also equally possible that the film is truly well done, one of the better films of the year. I intend to see it so I can make up my mind.

Change his title, Skydog. Change it now!

This is what I'm not seeing. I live in New Jersey and work in New York City. I'm hearing 50x more about King Kong than I am about Brokeback Mountain. I've heard equally much about Syriana through my normal media outlets. I'm just not seeing what you guys are claiming is there, but perhaps it's regional. Of course that makes even less sense since the movie is actually showing in New York right now, while it is not being shown yet nation-wide.

I saw Passion and loved it and it got tons of hype. Why do you think you are bashing something you havnt seen? Can you explain it without letting your faith drip into your attack? Considering that youre coming from a place of ignorance Id love to hear it. I can defend the crap out of Passion as a movie since I've seen it I cannot attack or defend a movie I havn't seen and neither can you so why dont you STFU and leave your ridiculous poisened Ideology out of analysis and ONLY use cognitive reasoning.

IOW, you have no idea whether the hype is warranted or not.

Passion was excellent as a film (BTW Im Jewish wherein a lot of the attacks came from Jews, just wanted to point that out), it was well shot, well acted, emotionally effective, brutal, and moving. It was excellent. Your turn. watch Brokeback and then critique it as a movie. Im wiating on the edge of my seat.

What's the original story line? I haven't heard.

I am afraid, however, that after all the hype about this particular movie regarding cowboys I will never be able to view the title of 'Blazing Saddles' again in quite the same way.

Ummm, you realize $100,000 per screen is freaking huge right?

You are one sad motherfucker.

A recent article in Entertainment Weekly suggested that the studio is indeed marketing it specifically in the "heartland."

I agree with JIMG and Bubba that the movie is receiving a lot of hype, and I also agree that there are probably a number of people in Hollywood with a personal interest in the subject matter.

The leap I won't take is the suggestion that means it's not a great movie or not worth seeing. The other comment I can't agree with is that the only thing that matters is whether the movie sells a lot of tickets.

Best post by BW ever! Frame it and call it a day.

No wonder you get all of the good hollywood roles :D

You havnt even seen it!! Why arent you railing about Will & Grace. Perhaps cuz its funny? Do you not think gays existed back then? How bout now? You know gays exist right? So do Nazis? So do Christians...So a movie can be made about one group and be hyped and be good but not another, if it isnt on the Bubba scale. You are so biased. What makes you think anyone would actually listen or consider anything you say other than to be simply poisoned rhetoric?

Oh, come on! That was funny.

you realize will and grace isn't actually funny.

Are you asking the plot of the movie?

It's a tragic romance between two cowboys who meet while watching sheep in the late 60's, I believe. They form a friendship as well as a sexual relationship. Both are trapped in fairly loveless marriages, though, and they have the occasional meeting over the years but are never able to be together. I won't go through the ending or all the details, but that's the general idea.

Living in Chicago where it is also being shown I would have to agree that there has been far more Kong publicity, as one would expect, that Brokeback. The real question, however, is Brokeback recieving more publicity than other art films have recieved at this time of the year? It seems to me that some film always grabs the critics attention about this time as an Oscar hopeful, but I don't really have a firm enough recollection to decide one way or another.

That said, I think that Bubba, despite bring this up for his own reasons, does have a good point that there is a pretty big disconnect between the values espoused in this movie and that of most of America.

He's a moron, so of course not. Brokedback Mountain did 150% more per screen last night than King Kong did.

I figured this movie to be more of an expose, given Gunnery Sargent Hartman's belief that "there are only two things that come from Texas."

Will & Grace is halarious....especially the live episode. The wirting is so much better than 30% of the sit coms out there. Joey is awful (just throwin that out there) but Will & Grace is still very funny.

Have to go with Easy Mac here. I have never found Will and Grace funny, and I could never understand the appeal of that show. In fact, I would go so far as to call it irritating.

Edit: There was a recent NBC promo where they were touting all of their great comedies over the years from Friends to Seinfeld to Cosby Show to Cheers. Then pops up Will and Grace, which seemed really out of place to me.

Will and Grace is awful - probably the worst popular tv show of my lifetime.

I've never even heard of this movie. Until this thread.

Maybe absolutely true, your point, but thats why its a film and not a documentary. Not every movie is supposed to be a movie based on a true story.

I've seen far more promotion for Syriana than I have for BareBack Mountain, but I've heard better things about the cowboys. Personal preference here, but I have no interest in seeing the movie, I just don't get a kick out of seeing guys kiss. Just a personal thing i have, I know the story may be great, but I don't want to see it. Same thing with Million Dollar Baby. Everyone said it kicks ass, but I just don't like Eastwood or Hillary Swank (my fiancee made me watch it, and I hated it.). I may see it eventually if the misses wants to (she loves Ledger and Gyllenhaal, and I love me some Anne Hathaway), but I doubt it.

Well I'd like to think you are biased as well based on faith BUT if I post a poll and hear differently from a broad spectrum of people (BW pay attention its a statistics thing again) I could deduce that I am in the minority on this.

Gee, lets see, more people dispersed over a greater number of screens might equal less gross-per-screen while still reaping in much larger profits overall. Regardless, pretty easy to look up the movie box offices grosses.

Have to laugh, though, on how a major motion picture with big stars setting out to be a main-stream movie is now suddenly being described by its advocates as an 'art-house' movie. All in the spin, I guess.

I'm not quite sure where you got the idea that I was saying that as I never reference the idea of fiction vs nonfiction in my post.

Comparing it to Joey is like comparing the Browns to the Texans. One may be head and shoulders above the other, but they still suck.

Wow, Bubba and Jon are upset at about a movie about gay people. Will wonders never cease?

Fellas, so long as there are folks like you around

Also, there are plenty of movies about gay people released every year that don't get any media hype at all. Anyone remember "Boat Trip"? Does the gay cowboy angle makes this movie unique? Sure it does. It's taking the American symbol of tough-guy masculinity - cowboys (see, eg, John Wayne and Clint Eastwood) - and giving it a bit of a... twist.

Now, I haven't seen the movie, but by all accounts it is incredibly well-made, which is not surprising given that it Ang Lee is directing it, and very well-acted, which is surprising given Heath Ledger is a lead, but not so surprising given that Jack Gyllenhall is the other.

All that said, so long as their are folks like Bubba and Jon in the world, a film like Brokeback Mountain will continue to get media hype. Keep on keepin' on, fellas...

7You can't hold the number up as a failure and then say the number doesn't matter when you were completely wrong. And 100,000 per screen is the largest ever for a movie, whether it is in wide release or not. And comparing the # of screens doesn't matter, since Kong was supposed to be a blockbuster. Would it be fair to compare My Big Fat Greek Wedding and Minority Report? I think they made about the same, but most would argue The first was more successful because it started smaller.

I love Will and Grace. Grace is hot. Everyone that says otherwise can bite me.

I haven't seen the movie, but from everything I've read its not promoting any values. Its generally just a good love story about people who couldn't be together, but it happens to be two gay guys out west. I'd say the subject is the point of disconnect, not any values promoted by the movie.

The first easily made more profit because it had a fraction of the cost of the second.

Nor at any point have I argued whether the film has "technical merit" or whatever the appropriate phrase would be. To me, that's largely beside the point. It may or may not be well-written/well-acted/well-directed/ beautifully photographed, don't know & don't care.

Point is, this isn't the only movie that would fit any/all of those descriptions but those received lower levels of "mainstream" hype. And I believe the subject matter plays the biggest difference in that. The hype is meant to drive audiences & the audiences are meant to legitimize the lifestyle being portrayed. That's the agenda in play here, not some noble effort to get people to "see a good movie" or anything so benign.

It is what it is, and it really shouldn't be that big a shock that it's happening.
The aforemention Will & Grace benefitted from some of the sort of thing, just on a slightly lesser scale. But there's more prestige attached to film than sitcoms, so that's not surprising either. I guess what puzzles me still is why, when the Right has an agenda, there's not all that much denial about it but when the Left does it, the denial almost overshadows the agenda itself.

I'd argue against this. Gyllenhaal has as much range as Chris Kaman. I love Donnie Darko, but its not related to his acting.

I have nothing whatsoever against gays. I was active in theater groups during high school. I lived in NYC for several years and enjoyed mingling with the queers and the pervs. It's true that I am more prudish than most of my age group, but I don't think I'm biased against anybody.

It's a terrible show because it has terrible actors, terrible writing, and all the jokes have one of two punchlines, either "somebody is gay" or "somebody is desperate for sex." I don't particularly respect the sitcom genre, but I bet I have seen 100 sitcoms that were better than Will and Grace. I don't usually use language like this, but it's success makes me worry for our future.

Okay, pardon the pun but ... that's one of the best "straight" lines I've heard in a long time.
:D

ESPN's Playmakers did it better without all the excessive hype and fawning.

I can't really find much here that I disagree with.

My only addendum to the conversation started by Bubba is that while it may be inflated, there is also buzz coming from the fact that it is, by all accounts, a quality movie with good pedigree. It is also unique in its presentation. While that may not account for all of the push by Hollywood and critics, it can't be ignored either.

The other thing I took issue with was his assertion that the only reasons movies are made are to sell. I think films are also about the expression of ideas, popular and not-so-popular.

I think it's kind of a given that those ideas tend to be, more often than not, fairly left-leaning.

You know, I was just thinking the other day, there was no hype for Playmakers.

Its looking more and more like you were right re: the W&G thing and I am wrong. Damn I hate it when Im the only one who thinks a show is good, like 3 wishes. Phooey!!

I like 3 wishes. And you should stand behind your convictions: If you like a show or movie, you shouldn't care if other people do.

Hmm ... sidetracking a bit ... I could go along "all are made to sell", but it isn't neccessarily tickets they're most interested in selling. Sometimes its tickets, sometimes it's a viewpoint/agenda ... but 99.9% are "selling" something.

From Roger Freidman's Top 10 movies of 2005 (he's really into the art and movie scene in NYC, esp. Greenwich Village)


It's like other controversal issues: The social message over the movie (Brokeback Mtn) will overshadow any objectiveness because it has to get out there and be promoted.

cthomer: Look where those $100,000 screenies were.

oh, I stand by my convictions, but my presumption was wrong.

So? I reckon the majority of movies made espouse values that are a pretty big disconnect between the values espoused in most of America. Ever see Pulp Fiction? Requiem for a Dream? Natural Born Killers? Or any countless other number of controversial films?

It all goes back to hoe shameful it is that a movie about two men in love is considered "a big disconnect between the values of most of America", but movies about gratuitous violence, misogyny, or whatever are right in line with the values of most America.

I didn't look, but I would imagine they were in large urban centers, no?

Yeah, there was no excessive hype or fawning about Playmakers. None at all...

In 3 cities specifically: NY, SF and LA.

Well... While I like to believe there is still some interest in telling a good story regardless of the agenda, the concept of artistic expression, I do understand the typical "expression" is one of a specific societal viewpoint. Most of the time, I hope the art is more important than the agenda. But then again, I've been called naive before. :D

In the mainstream press? I don't recall any noticeable amount. I think we're (FOFC'ers) were sort of "narrowcasted" any hype it received. Remember, only a small percentage of Americans ever watch ESPN.

Donnie Darko is the only movie I think I have ever seen this guy in, so I'll accept this as true. Just never been impressed with Ledger, who I have seen in far too many films.

I saw Broken Flowers... didn't really like it. Felt like movies I've been seeing for a while. I thought Murray was good, but the movie itself didn't bring anything I hadn't seen before.

That's the thing, its all about personal preference when liking a movie. I know plenty of people who didn't like Good Night, Good Luck, but I thought it was great. So a reviewer saying he didn't like 1 movie and another should have gotten more press doesn't mean much.

Looking at Bubba's original thesis, I think he may have a point, but I think there's more to it than just 'Hollywood pushing a gay agenda.' First of all, Hollywood is not some monolithic entity like the Elders of Zion. Mel Gibson, Steven Spielberg, and Tim Burton are a fairly diverse trio in terms of values. Secondly, Ang Lee and Heath Ledger are pretty big stars - their names are at least partly responsible for the hype this movie has gotten.

But there is a kernel of truth there - that our moviemakers, producers, actors, etc. are not at all representative of America. Note that I don't necessarily see this as a problem.

99% of the people I know don't read the New York Times, read self-important critics, or most of the other things where movies are promoted. I haven't read anything about Brokeback Mountain in any paper, the only reason it's in EW is because of Gyllenhaal and Ledger (smart casting move, best way to draw an audience), and I've seen 1 commercial for it. Yet I see a Syriana commercial every other break. So I'd say the group that discusses movies here is more savvy than the general public. I'd say if I went up to normal moviegoers 75% wouldn't have heard of this movie.

I enjoyed A Knight's Tale for what it was, but I'd agree I've been unimpressed with his acting.

But he did bag Naomi Watts and impregnated Jen from Dawson's Creek, so he gets a pass from me.

There certainly is an agenda in the promotion of this movie, but I disagree that the "technical merit" of this film plays a significant role in that agenda. Like I mentioned early, there are likely dozens of movies about gay men released each year. Where is the hype for those movies?

Brokeback Mountain, however, by all accounts has significant "technical merit", so it then becomes a perfect vehicle for the agenda. The Left sees about gay people that is well crafted and does a good job with the subject matter and therefore it becomes that a good vehicle to say "Hello, America. Here is a well made movie about gay people. It treats their relationship with respect and is a good, accurate serious portrayl of two men in love."

Still, while I dont watch commercials on TV or listen to the radio, I haven't seen where all this hype is coming from. I think certain folks are just pre-disposed to see hype about issues they care deeply about.

You guys are really claiming this movie is getting more hype than previous "indies"? Every year a very good, small movie is picked up by the hype machine... you don't remember the hype for Sideways or Supersize Me over the last two years? Do Million Dollar baby, Chicago, and Crouching Tiger count as "indies" too? I haven't seen anything near that level for Brokeback Mountain yet and I live in Chicago in a pretty gay-friendly neighborhood.

I think the hype refers to all of the early award nominations as the movie was just being released.

That always happens with movies released in December though.

Yes, but why this particular one when there are so many mixed reviews?

Example, picking up 7 Golden Globes nominations.

I've read one article on the MSNBC web site a couple of weeks ago about Brokeback Mountain. I think I might have seen one in Sacramento Bee that I didn't read.

That's it. No TV commercials (but lots for King Kong and Syriana and The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe). Where's the hype?

What little it's really getting seems to me pretty well-deserved, considering it has a highly regarded director, highly regarded lead actor, and is based on an acclaimed short story by one of the best contemporary writers around, Annie Proulx.

Right now, it's at 87% positive at rottentomatoes.com, so I would hardly call those reviews "mixed". I don't recall reading anything that slammed the technical merit of the movie, but rather the subject matter. I don't know if there are any Golden Globes for that.

Studios tend to release "award" quality pictures in December that way they are fresh in the minds of those who nominate fims for awards. How many Golden Globes was The Aviator nominated for? Return of the King?

If this movie is that great, it deserves all the accolades it can get.

If it's not great, I hope people aren't afraid to say it's not because of political correctness and fear of being labeled a gay-basher.

Come on now, no one cares about that stuff, it's only the Left pushing the gay agenda on America!

Like I said earlier, so long as there are people who get horribly bent out of shape at the idea of two men in love, movies/books/tv shows/what have you that center around such a relationship will cause some controversy and, thus, lead to hype.

Good Night, Capote, Squid, W&G, Paradise Now, Passenger all received more positive reviews with Harry Potter, P&P, History of Violence receiving about the same amount. I fully expect that once Brokeback gets into wider release, that number will go down as small and medium size cities add their reviews.

Do you really think so? I'm not a huge Proulx fan at all, and I've read a lot of her stuff. I think she has had some good stuff and some pretty mediocre stuff. She is certainly acclaimed, but I wouldn't call her one of the best.

But then again, that's a discussion for another thread. The story this is based on is interesting to say the least, but it well-written in my opinion.

true, let it suck on Film making attributes.

I just checked. The Aviator also received 7 Golden Globes nominations. Return of the King had 4. Both those movies were released later in December (if I recall correctly) than Brokeback Mountain.

Also, look at the other Golden Globes nominees this year, there are a ton of small, independent movies that got nominated this year and they don't have anything to do with gay people.

It has an 87 average score on metacritic and rottentomatoes... that's hardly mixed reviews.

I don't think we need to worry about that. Am I the only person who even remembers "Party Boat"? Not that I even saw it, but still...

Looks like another classic case of people seeing and hearing only what they want to see hear. Here's a fact -- a search at google.news.com for "Brokeback Mountain" for me just yielded 4,130 results. A search for "King Kong" yielded 7,190 results. The search results at Yahoo News yielded 5,454 to 2,561 in favor of King Kong. And whereas Brokeback Mountain has great reviews, King Kong has thus far posted disappointing box off numbers and almost no critical acclaim.

What I want to know is where all of these complainers were earlier this summer when Cinderella Man opened to absolutely fantastic reviews and the media coverage was everywhere despite the fact that the movie did horrible business and was a box office bomb? Throughout movie history, well-done films almost always receive more media attention than their ultimate box office warrants. Has "Brokeback Mountain" gained more attention due to its subject matter? Certainly, but as pointed out above so did "Passion of the Christ." The whiners can't have it both ways.

I realize facts are useless here, so it's the last you'll hear from me on the subject. Some people only here and believe what they want to hear, and if they were running the place we'd still be teaching our kids the world is flat.

It's a movie. It can't hurt you. No amount of advertising or media coverage of the movie is going to hurt you.

Quite frankly, I have no interest in watching a romance between gay guys, and I sure as hell wouldn't spend what it costs to get into the theatres these days to see it. Now lesbians on the other hand.....

It must be that vast gay conspiracy. That's why they overpromote a gay movie every year.

What? You mean they didn't do it last year? Or the year before? Or the year before that?

Maybe when you have a sample size of 1, blaming the so-called gay agenda isn't the answer.

I didn't like The Hulk, but that might've been the subject matter more than the director.

Except this could be the first widely-released movie of the type with a well-known director and lead, as oppose to some art-house indie film.

Personally, I don't watch romantic dramas of any kind.

The fact that it is a widely-released movie with a well-known director and lead and based off a well-known short story, as opposed to some art-house indie film could also be the reason it is being promoted. It's hard to promote an art-house indie film without any star power.

Do you think this movie would be being promoted like this if it were some no name director and starred a bunch of no name actors?

And maybe, just maybe because it is the "first widely-released move of the type" is the reason it gets some (but not nearly the most, as kcchief pointed out) attention. That seems like a better explanation than some vast gay conspiracy.

No, but it doesn't make the movie automatically better.

They haven't found a movie theatre in Wyoming willing to show it at all. They did a screening in Jackson Hole specifically for a group of folks, but..beyond that. Nada.

JG, question. Do you want this movie to be popular nation-wide?

Again personally, despite me not watching romantic dramas, I would chose to watch this instead of the awful King Kong, if I had a choice between the two.

Pretty much the only people that I know who like Will and Grace are gay people and females. That does not mean there are plenty of exceptions to who like the show. But, based on that subjective observation, I would say the FOFC crowd is not your best group in which to find W&G fans. If you ran the same poll at the Oxygen message boards, you would probably have a different outcome.

Ditto, especially if it's about two guys diddling each other. Say what you like about production quality, etc., but I really have no interest in a story about two guys and their man love. I have no problem with someone being gay, but that doesn't mean I enjoy watching gay sex, implied or explicit.