Modding stuff lately....
 

First, let me recap the boxings/bannings/warnings since the new system came to be.

1. A banned user, (Play2Win) posts under a new name. Automatic banning. Always has been. No-brainer. Jeeber D catches it, and lowers the hammer.

2. (This is the part that most of you don't know). A discussion gets over the line. The mods discuss it privately, and decide NOT to be hasty, so they privately ask both primary parties to stand down. Both primary parties stand down, no further action taken.

3. FN posts from a banned user (Play2Win), and gets edited by me. As several have pointed out, this isn't the first time this has happened. FN was not disciplined for this, but was specifically told not to do it again. (Exact words: "Everyone, henceforth before posting anything from a banned or suspended user, it needs to be run by me first.") LESS THAN 24 HOURS LATER, he does it again, so wademoore, (with the approval of every mod who was around at the time, by the way) suspends him for 5 days. Now, you may agree or disagree with the idea behind the warning I issued him, but that's immaterial. If you break a known law in real life because you disagree with it, it's called "civil disobedience," and you usually go to jail for it. If you want to view FN's act of posting from a banned user as some sort of "civil disobedience," then that's your prerogative. However, it is utterly laughable that anyone can question that when someone ignores a warning and repeats the exact same behavior on the very same day, then there are only two choices: board anarchy, or some form of penalty.

Two facts that I think are important to note here:

1. Other than warning FN, I had basically nothing to do with the three actions above, other than after-the-fact "Do you think we're on the right track here?" questions from the mods to me.
2. IF I WERE STILL DOING EVERYING UNILATERALLY, THE ABOVE ACTIONS ARE *EXACTLY* THE SAME ONES I WOULD HAVE TAKEN!

So, to recap, the "overbearing new mods" :rolleyes: have issued two automatic-no-brainer punishments and made one decision to give people a chance to calm down and back off, and some of you are going nuts.

I really don't get it at all. I really don't.

I'm pretty busy today, and won't have time to respond much, but you can use this thread if you want to vent, or if you feel the need to contact me privately, know that it will likely be this evening before you get any response.

--Ben

Because the new system allows people to see the process in action, and they feel that that gives them a right to comment on the process. I understand the mods' desire to do these things in public so as to demonstrate that they are not dictators sometimes. We all know that sunshine is the best disinfectant. And in public life, I am all for more and more disclosure.

But you are not the government, and none of us have a right to know what is going on behind closed doors. It might not be as "fair" to not let us see behind the curtain--but you don't owe us fairness. Just run the board well. You borrow too much trouble when you start showing us how the engine works.

People just lke to bitch about mods.


Cause they would always know the best thing to do.

dola--"You" there being plural, addressed to all the mods, not just SkyDog.

++

The thread can end now.

Ike Turner?

y'all can be such a cabal of dictators at times..

:D

+10 literacy points for use of the word "cabal" in a sentence ;)

" 2. IF I WERE STILL DOING EVERYING UNILATERALLY, THE ABOVE ACTIONS ARE *EXACTLY* THE SAME ONES I WOULD HAVE TAKEN!"

Then, I'm sorry to say, Ben but you've become as piss poor a moderator as those you chose.

It's time that you either drop the personal agendas you have with certain posters or at least apply the rules evenly across the board. You've cut the liberal wing of this forum slack to infinity & beyond and I believe that you've done it in a misguided attempt to prove that you're not too conservative yourself. Here's a novel approach I'd suggest: Treat everybody on both sides of the aisle the same way. Period.

If that turns out to be viewed as harsh, fine.
It that turns out to be viewed as lenient, fine.
But consistency is sorely needed.

Right now, the only thing that appears to be consistent is those who are the subject of some personal agenda/vendetta are consistently hammered & those who have become sacred cows,especially those who are darlings of the left wing of this forum, or those whom taking action against would upset our precious liberal contingent can pretty much do as they please and MOST especially if they direct their actions at a conservative member of the forum.

There's a lot of bullshit here Ben, and some of it is of your own making (no matter how good or noble or whatever your intentions might be) and it's time that you either get it under control or step the fuck down. And the last thing on earth this place needed was for you to add more of the same to the mix, which appears to be exactly what you've done.

Maybe it's time that you consider putting this place out of its misery altogether, an option I'd prefer than to have things remain the same or get any worse (which is pretty much always a possibility).

Sincerely,
Jon

wow

man, did I pick the wrong clusterfuck of a thread to stumble into...

Of course, I disagree with Jon. Jesse springs to mind, for instance.

BTW, those of you who are re-thinking capsicum's banning (and maybe going over her posting history) need to remember that she deleted a lot of her posts including, memorably, an entire thread. It was many of these posts that prompted the bulk of the ire directed at her. Unfortunately, due to her actions, we no longer have this "evidence".

Since it comes from a vitriolic guy who gets more slack cut for him than virtually anyone on the board, I have a hard time taking anything Jon says seriously anymore.

And if you're so righteously offended by what goes down here, why do you stay?

Remember, I saw a lot of those threads live as they happened (again, I won't claim "all", but the whole scenario last such a relatively short time that I feel pretty comfortable about "most"). So the lack of "evidence" isn't any sort of handicap for everyone, I dare say many of those who give a damn on either side watched a lot of it live.

JIMG, you're not very good at playing the "my people are being persecuted" board role. I'd recommend giving it up before it gets any worse.

The idea that left-wing people are any more protected than right-wing people around here is a joke. I've noticed that people that post like morons run a much higher risk of getting in trouble regardless of their flavor.

There's still some value here, unfortunately just not nearly as much as there could be. That's a pretty clear cut, straightforward simple answer I believe.

Someone's gonna go IKE Turner in here in a minute; I can feel it.

Jon: I hope you get hit by a bus.

And I disagree wholeheartedly. And question the reasoning/judgemental ability of anyone who hasn't figured that out already.

Then again, Dan Rather believes he's "mainstream", so I guess it isn't hard to imagine that some people won't get it.

Don't know why, but amidst all the serious stuff, this little gem has me laughing like crazy... :D

FM

Love you too sweetums.
As long as you don't procreate, I think your existence won't really do much harm, you really don't seem relevant enough or capable enough to do any damage otherwise.

Jon, to be honest, I think you're more or less proving that SkyDog is "on line" rather than "off line".. why? Because you're feeling that he's been more benevolent against liberals, while liberals feel he's being more forgiving when it comes to conservatives.

I've been vocal against some of his decisions and my criticism has been basically what you're saying.. to quote you:


But it's funny how the two sides perceive the same thing but from different angles :)

I haven't laughed this hard since the Maximum Football thread was at its peak. Thanks, Jon.

I understand that Franklinnoble has a forum....

:D

But since that group is right no more frequently than a stopped clock ...

I get what you're trying to say but their inability to be right about anything with any frequency kind of kills the validity of it, y'know.

lol

you guys should just arm wrestle

Well, I guess they are right at least twice a day then. That's more credit than he usually gives them. :D

And this is because of the moderation? It's been that pervasive in your FOFC life? I find that very had to accept.

Jon: I'm tired of the whole "Wah wah my pussy hurts" routine. Why do you insist on looking at the world as out to get you? Over and over and over you go back to the same tired argument of "Liberals are out to destroy everything I love!" Its gotten to a level of paranoina that probably needs professional help.

Its a message board. Liberals get boxed and banned. Conservatives get boxed and banned. Asshats of all stripes get boxed and banned. Do I agree with every decision? No. Do I think Skydog is out to appease liberals? Fucking laughable.

Now lets see if you can refrain from wishing me death. My advice would be to back out of the thread and buy your new home. Enjoy some of your life, Jon. It seems from the outside that you're blessed with a good family and good job. Not everything has to be soaked in anger.

My take on this is that we shouldn't ban people left and right based on their political affiliations, it should be all about if they're doing harm or not. Conservative or Liberal shouldn't matter..

I don't have a problem with political threads or opinions, other than the fact that unfortunately they have a tendency to bring out the worst in people, and namecalling usually ensues after two people have different opinion on a matter.

I see great FOFC contributors on both sides of the fences here, which makes me a bit worried when this becomes a fight between the two sides.

in a tank with sharks with laser beams attached to their frickin' heads TO THE DEATH!

As I see it, no one on this board gets more slack than you. No one on this board, outside of maybe Grantdawg, is seen as more of "One of Ben's Boys", than you. There are a number of people at this board that would have liked to have seen you suspended or banned at one time or another.

I like that you are here. I think you provide a good foil for a lot of the general opinions without being a out and out troll. Make no mistake about it though...if Ben moderated the way you accuse him of moderating - or if any of the other moderators took that approach, you'd be gone already.

Holy clusterfuck, batman.

It would be far more manly than this.

Is it like when your parents are fighting?

Ice Weasels then?

Cue Civil War music...

I wouldn't know.

I think when you have to resort to a label in your arguments almost every time, it shows how limited your thinking must be. With Jon, it's always "liberals" this or that. Go back to your cave and eat some squirrels or rats that you half-cooked on a stick. You'll feel better.

I always ranked him #2.

"I was initially hurt by his words. He said some mean awful things..."

"Did you injure your body in any way."

"Yes, then I fell down some stairs and bashed my head and my shoes fell off"

This sums up my opinion 100%. I have never really had a one on one conversation with JIMGA on any topic, but I have been involved in quite a few topics about advertising, sports, or other areas where I appreciated and enjoyed his input. Never had any problems at all.

But since I think Bush is doing a bad job he wishes my ilk (never specifically me, but people who think like me) dead. I really think he might have some issues also. And I don't mean this is a ripping on him as "You got issues man" but in a seriously concerned for your very strange political views way.

Plus I have to agree that him and one other poster seem to get more leeway than anyone. And I don't really care, but his crazy post above seems to be a bad case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Your such a sizzle chest Sol!!

It doesn't matter. If someone feels that it did, it won't anymore.

see ya little later there nitz

I don't even see him as unintelligent. It's just that his anti-liberal bias taints his entire worldview. Everything is seen through the anti-liberal glasses.

Absolutely 100% true. You have posted more hate on this board than anyone here. For you to whine about how the liberals are coddled around here is a joke. If I didn't know you better, I'd think your post was an attempt at satire - a little poking fun at yourself and what you constantly get away with here. Alas, I think that you were being serious.

ben, i dont think people have a problem with either of the two actions you described above...from everything i have seen, there has been widespread support for both those boxing/bannings...the issue has been the actions that HAVE NOT happened...the fact that blatant insults and personal attacks on former board members are unpunished, but mr bigglesworth is sitting in the box for calling you a fuc**** a**hole twice....i know that is my beef at this point.

And your inability to consider what individuals say based on its or their own merit pretty much makes what you say have absolutely no validity whatsoever, even to conservatives. Seriously, Jon, you don't even need to post anymore, we could all write them for you. Your posts might be taken seriously if you ever thought, rather than mindlessly attack people you have labeled liberals, and worship those you have labeled conservative.

I'm really confused as to why there is any controversy here at all. I think VPI(and all those that agreed with him/said similar things) has it right. People apparently just want to bitch about things. All decisions made in the past couple of days here seem very straight forward and simple.

I thought he just put all perceived liberals on ignore. Though maybe he leaves some off so he has a reason to post.

It also might be nice if people give the new system a chance...maybe a month? See how things go?

Four days to perfection is a bit much to ask, even to those who want it to fail.

Words of wisdom from the boy who called trout.

I know for a certainty that there are a lot of longtime members here who feel the exact same way. If anything proves how "online" Ben is with this community, I think you can see it in that no one is backing up Jon. How far outside the mainstream must you be on this board where NO ONE will have your back?

It is because all the "real" conservatives have been banned. It just proves the conspiracy.

Chris, in all seriousness & complete sincerity -- if this board didn't have such a strong tendency to tolerate dozens who attack conservatives while allowing only a scant few conservatives the leeway to answer them just as strongly, I'd be happy enough to take my leave permanently.

In other words, I'd go away pretty readily and of my own accord, as long as the same percentage of the staunchest liberals who post with equal fervor for their viewpoints were gone too.

I won't disagree that I'm allowed a good bit of leeway to answer socio-political topics with passion. The problem is that too few other equally capable (and willing) conservatives have (or have any reason to believe they have) the same amount of leeway. That leaves quite literally dozens on the left with clear & consistent free reign that isn't equally afforded to the same number on the right.

Again, I'd have no issue at all with being boxed, banned, permabanned, exiled, or whatever term you choose IF every liberal who stepped over the same line got the same treatment. But that hasn't happened, it doesn't happen, nor do I believe for more than the slightest moment of faint forlorn hope it'll ever happen (for reasons I referenced in my initial post in this thread). Absent that equitable treatment, then I don't feel the slightest bit apologetic about being among the few conservatives here who have been allowed to reply in kind to the sacred cows of the left.

Who are these liberals that have wished conservatives would step in front of bus and die? Which liberals said we should lock up and exterminate conservatives as traitors? Who on this board are you talking about? I can't figure out who the "dozens" of liberals are who have posted at the level of hate that you have.

Do some checking, see how many of those "conservatives" I've taken to task and/or vehemently opposed. I believe you'll find that I don't hesitate to call bullshit on them either, only that you'll find I don't believe it necessary as often.

Nor do I deny credit to even self-identified liberals when I believe they get something right (and examples of this are common enough that it's a friggin' running joke between me & several of them for crying out loud, it isn't exactly unheard of).

Given that, what's left is you accusing me of agreeing with conservatives more often than I agree with liberals. Well ... damn, you got me there.

Can SkyDog be banned for not putting the (POL) thing on the thread title? :D

Jon, in all seriousness & complete sincerity, your view of FOFC reality is so severely angled that I'm not sure there's a frame of reference for discussion. Suffice to say that, from my personal perspective, you are dead wrong in your beliefs about what is and isn't allowed around here. And I find it remarkable almost to the point of stunning that you say what you do with an apparently straight face.

Well, you got that part right at least.

As for the rest of your post, well, {sigh} it ain't exactly like we had dinner together twice a week & sent each other birthday & Christmas cards either.
I'll probably manage to muddle through & survive your disapproval somehow.

I gotta say, I don't see Jon as worshipping any conservatives. He seems to think he and he alone has all the right answers. :D

I won't defend Jon's original post to Skydog, because I happen to not agree with it, but I do find it amusing to see JPhillips accuse Jon of being a woman, considering the sheer number of people who get offended by any mention of homosexuality in a joking context.

I guess if the phrase "waaahwaaahwaah, my pussy hurts" is considered acceptable, then it'd be all right to tell someone "I can't make sense of what you're saying. Take the dick out of your mouth and speak clearly"?

The wheel in the sky keeps on turnin'

Oddly enough, I think that's cool (as in "okay by me", not as in "Fonzie cool").

I honestly find it "remarkable to the point of stunning" that any sane, rational person doesn't see it, so we're pretty much even on that account.

And I'm not mocking your choice of words with that quote or anything, I'm just borrowing them because they really do a good job of expressing my own disbelief (albeit at the opposite end of the subject).

It's kinda weird in a way, I mean, I know that what I would term a lack of comprehension (or whatever, I'm not looking for a pejorative phrase, I'm actually searching for one that is as benign as possible) exists ... I just can't understand how it exists. I think that's pretty much what you were saying, so maybe all I'm saying is that I know exactly what an odd feeling that is.

Jon, did it ever occur to you that MAYBE the other conservatives on the board CHOOSE not to post in the political threads as "passionately" as you because they have come to the realization that doing so is tantamount to banging your head against a wall while being yelled at because someone/some people dont' agree with your opinion? Just because you choose to engage in the political discussions, don't assume that the rest of us live in fear of expressing our opinion when we don't follow suit.

And don't you forget it RadioBoy, don't you forget it ;)

Sorry to interrupt this fascinating circle jerk but what is the point of all this again?

Ok bye.

If you're so concerned about the treatment of conservatives on a football game board, why don't you go ring up your post count on some Foxnews message board or something. The very idea that you are so troubled by the liberal-slanted punishment of political posting is laughable at best. Who really cares? If the messageboard were deleted tomorrow, your life would still go on, so why do you put forth so much effort and care into something that matters so little.

Why don't we talk about why Jim has yet to put out a baseball game?

I think that is pretty normal language here. I don't find it too nice, but I gave up that fight a long time ago. As far as I know, slurs (like "faggot") are what most people here are complaining about. "Pussy" and references to homosexual sex seem like par for the course, IMO.

No, because no one else would be, either. :)

I didn't assume that "all" do.

I know for a fact that some do, it's been expressed to me several times privately by a number of members. All of whom (AFAIK) still frequent the forum (i.e. I'm not talking about anybody who has been banned or left on their own).

If you read me as meaning, or even implying that "all" don't participate for that reason, then I'm sorry I wasn't clearer on that (I thought the "some" would be obvious I guess, maybe it wasn't).

You know, I've seen this argument come up before, and frankly, I call bullshit.

We care (or at least I do) because this is a community. No, most of us have never met one another and we never will, but there is something here that keeps us coming back for more. Perhaps it provides some needed drama to our boring lives, perhaps it enables us to talk about things like text-sims when we don't know anyone who plays them, perhaps it's just a fun place to talk with smart people about the issues of the day.

This is a fun place to hang out for the most part, and it's pretty special to me. I don't find this type of discourse on such a wide range of topics anywhere else, other than Fark. And with Fark, you have to deal with absolute idiots.

Cam: I didn't mark you as someone who would get upset by an impolite phrase. To be clear that particular phrase is one I picked up from a woman improv friend. She used it regularly and I've always liked the ridiculousness of it. It has no connotations for me besides someone whining with little cause.

Jon: Besides Capiscum who do you think has been punished for a conservative viewpoint?And what liberal should be boxed/banned and why?

I'm not upset. I just like consistency. If we're going to call someone a woman in an attempt to tease them, then I'm assuming it's okay to call someone gay.

I think your line of thinking is a little queer.

See Cam I think saying your phrase "take the dick out of your mouth" to a woman is far more the proper analogy here then to gay.

Cam: Allso notice that I have never been involved in word debates. I don't care what words are used. If they offend me so be it, but I don't have a right to silence anyone else. I'll call them an asshole if I see fit, but limiting what can be said is a long term bad idea.

oh well...worth a shot. ;)

Well no, because if JPhillips is saying that JiMGA has a pussy, then that implies that he's a woman.

If I say "take the dick out your mouth so I can understand you", that implies that you like to suck dick.

Now that I think about it, since about 10% of the population is gay, then that means there'd be a 90% chance I'd be calling you a dick sucking woman rather than a dick sucking gay man. So really, that phrase should be in the clear. :p

And once again, Jon... I seem to have threadjacked. :D

This thread contains 5 minutes of my life i will never get back :(

I'm going with the thumbs up here. Or maybe there just aren't as many staunch conservatives around here. But to suggest the discussion is being stifled is wonderously laughable.

Text sim football players that don't like each other and aren't afraid to express those feelings in message board format.

L8R

That's the key here. Many people here would say that nobody has stepped over the same line as you. have repeatedly. I can't recall anybody else say over and over that he wanted another board member to die. I think I recall HA saying it once, but it seems to come from you once every week.

I've learned to ignore the filth and hatred you spew. I've never asked for you to be boxed or banned. But for you to claim that the conservatives don't get a fair shake is absurd. If you wanted stricter moderation without bias, you'd quite literally be the first who should go.

Or maybe most people just don't care that much and would rather talk about hot child molesters.

You're only say that because you hate conservatives. Dirty liberal.

Hell, I don't mind the threadjack much ... but after your last post I'm not sure whether I'm supposed to be:
a) a woman
b) gay
c) a gay woman
d) all of the above
e) none of the above

I agree with this completely. I don't need to know what's going on behind the scenes here. I'm not a very vocal contributor here, but I have been a member for a quite awhile. I think the forum is well run and I don't have any issues with any of the warnings or bannings that have been issued. This is, by far, my favorite forum online and I think it's well run...keep up the good work.

or how their kids discovered that some part of their bodies can extend beyond their usual length...

FM

If honesty bothers you, I implore you to ignore me.

And if anything I've said posting here qualifies as "filth and hatred" to you, I don't think having you ignore me hurts a thing, you're too far gone for there to be any hope for you anyway.

Au revoir.

I guess this is where I disagree. To my memory, there has only been one staunch conservative that has been "disciplined" on this board for expressing their views (capsicum) and her forced departure had more to do with her ham-handed entry into the communty than anything else. Are there specific instances you can cite where SFLCat, Cam, Farrah, WVUFan, duckman, revrew, Arles, olliegirl et al. have been prevented from fervently engaging in political discourse?

Reading back over your post again, there is a lot of the emphasis on the word "leeway". You get it. "Dozens on the left get it." Others don't. Is the leeway defined as personal attacks? Intensity of opinion? I agree the discourse could be more civil at times, but that's the nature of a message board. If anything, I see the moderation of the past three years encouraging free debate from both sides.

since when did this become a democracy?

JiMG, Skydog mods this board for free, out of the goodness of his heart, you dont like it? shut the fuck up or leave.

Cam: You're working way too hard to make this about gay slurs.

Getting back to the original point, I would like to reiterate my call for people's titles to include the reason why they were boxed. It would save a lot of time and effort, imo.

You can say, oh the mods don't have to explain, but they really do. Otherwise people get confused and anarchy results. The only complaining about FN's boxing I saw was because people thought he'd been boxed for his response to Stevew's comment about his wife being an orifice.

Deep thoughts on JiMGA:

I consider myself a conservative and agree with a lot of the pricipals that JiMGA does. However, I don't believe them to the extreme that he does. I respect JiMGA because he can generally back up his comments with facts or with evidence that he has given the issue a lot of thought. He believes what he believes because he has thought about it, unlike others who believe what they believe because someone told them to. It is his extreme view where JiMGA rubs people the wrong way. If someone flies a plane into the White House most of us would consider them traitors and would want them punished up to and including death. JiMGA takes that principle and extends it much further than almost all of us are willing to take it. A traitor is a traitor and should be treated as such. There is not much grey area. JiMGA takes that approach for most/all his beliefs. This is where there is a disconnect with many on the board.

Because he participates in a lot of political threads, he becomes a target and participates in a lot of heated exchanges. His black or white attitude comes out and as a result he can come across as quite an asshole. Many times he is.

I also percieve JiMGA as quite a pessimist and generally a person with a generally negative outlook. That also affects how people react to him, mainly because very little of what he says is positive. I don't wish or expect him to change. That's just the way it is.

So, while I find myself agreeing with JiMGA more and more often, I don't dislike him. I do believe he crosses the line more than he should and probably gets reprimanded less than he should. I'd like to see him tone down some of the more extreme things he says, but I'd also like to see the Atlanta Hawks win an NBA title. Some things just won't ever happen.


Just figured I'd toss that out there. Move along.

All I'm gonna say is that I don't give a rat's ass about an individual's politcal leanings. Hell, I tend to stay way the hell away from politcal threads, so I probably don't even know where most people lean...

I see this a tad bit differently. If you call someone a women, I don't infer that you are trying to insult them by suggesting they are gay; I think you are trying to insult them because you think a woman is inferior to a man -- it's not a slur against homesexuals, it's a slur against women, implying that that they are weaker in someone than a man.

If you use the term "gay" as insult, then I think you're implying that heterosexuals are in someone better han homesexuals. I think they both insult different groups.

End threadjack. Back to the nonsense.

Whether they explain or not, people are going to piss and moan.

There's not a win situation with this board, SD and everyone else could step down as mod and people would complain about the next mod within a month or two (or less) even if he were completely unbiased. Rinse and repeat.

This poll needs a trout option. :)