Typical Lebron choke at the buzzer
 

Need I say more? The man is as non-clutch as they come. With the Cavs or not, he'll never be on a championship team.

So, I guess scoring the final 6 points in OT doesnt matter? Cavs Win, Cavs Win.

Are you drunk amdaily?

Please see last year's playoffs. He killed the Wizards.

Ping: WrongWay

Ping: First seven years of Michael Jordan's career

I'll count them, but only because they were so obvious.

How do you feel about Michelle Wie?

I saw this thread last night and seriously thought it was a joke.

I refuse to call him "king" of anything until he hoists up the golden ashtray

Not a bad road trip for the Cavs, all things considered. LeBron is what, 21? Give the guy some freaking slack. It will come. It may not even come to him in Cleveland, but it will come.

I thought it was a horrid road trip, considering the teams they lost too. Smacked around by portland, nobody should lose to the Sonics either. And Bron had to hulk up to beat Golden State.

Considering their past history on West Coast road trips, it wasn't bad.

I didn't say it was great, did I?

*yawn*

I'll agree this time. He fucking sucked tonight, and should not have played. And Mike Brown is clueless, if he's going to allow Wade to run the same fucking play 15 times in a row, and not try to stop it. Losses like these, Bron turning into LeBrick from the FT line, piss me off.

LAWL

Man, 2 LeBricks in the final 10 seconds. Ah well, sometimes a loss isn't that painful. Especially if you don't have to watch Larry Hughes play.

Oh man, it became a close game? I switched it off midway through the 2nd Q when Dallas was spanking them and Cleveland looked clueless.

It was a pretty good 1st Q though, until that lapse near the end of the quarter. But man, sometimes LeBron gets a little too excited after a big play and then just turns in to a liability with some of the dumb shots he takes the next couple of times down the court. He threw down that monster slam over Diop where he had to adjust the ball and bring it back for the 2-hander, then the next couple of times down the court he throws up an air-ball, a brick, and an pretty ordinairy layup that is cleaned up by Varejo.

Yeah, it was a pretty exciting game. I shouldn't complain about the bricked threes, since he was the only reason they didn't lose by like 25. Typical Mike Brown puzzling rotations....Snow in when we're down by 7-9. Dude can't finish. Lots of clean look 3s that didn't stay down. A few calls that we kind of got jobbed on towards the end. All in all, I think he's turning the corner. 2 bricked FT's and 2 missed 3's in the final minute. I think that he hit the camera crew pretty damn hard beforehand though.

How was Shannon Brown? Looking at the box score it looks like he had his first decent game of the season in limited minutes. I was hoping he'd be a semi-impact player after what looked like a potential steal at our draft position, but it looks like he's some ways off.

Eh, He made a decent play when I saw him in there, but I don't know. He needs more run instead of David Wesley, at least. I think he will start getting decent minutes from here out.

I dont watch Lebron play alot, so i dont know...is he a good 3 point shooter? I think that I would rather have someone other than him shooting a 3 to tie at the end of the game, regardless of whether hes my best player or not, I dont think hes that good of a 3 point shooter

I would rather have someone else shooting a three than him too, but the other guys were bricking them at an alarming rate all night. He's probably an "average" at best 3 point shooter. A quick check indicates that he's about a 33% shooter from 3. Which i believe is about at the range where you either want to get better, or stop shooting them altogether.

He certainly hasn't improved as a player this season. Hopefully the king spends some time on his game this summer and hasn't peaked too early in his career.

He needs a supporting cast more than anything. I think any player would get frustrated if they need to score 50% of the teams points for them to have a chance.

Having said that, the coach deserves plenty of blame too. The Cavs have some guys who should be better scorers than they are, but for a variety of reasons the team's offense stinks more often than not.

thats what I thought, although I heard they had Daniel Gibson in there at that time who is something like a 45%+ 3 point shooter this year....Lebron's dunk in the first quarter was pretty rediculous too, he played a very good game, just has NOBODY on his team to help him, if they get him at least a good point guard and another scorer they would be pretty damn good

I think if the cavs had pulled the trigger and gotten iverson.. man

Lebron absolutely needs a better supporting cast. Did you see Wesley get stuffed by the rim!

Man he should have gone to college where he atleast could have felt the pressure of a conference tourney and March Madness.

33% is solid from three point land. Take 100 shots and you have 99 points. Take 100 two point shots and make 50% and you have 100. Add in the fact that you get more long rebounds off of three and you are fine.

The troubling thing to me about Bron is how all of his numbers are decreasing. His FT percentage is now approaching critical mass. He only hit on 61% last month and has a nice 8-16 start this month. That's a lack of concentration and has nothing to do with his teammates. His rebound, assist, and steal numbers are dropping as well. (and have every year after the second year breakout)

I took a lot of heat a couple of years ago when I ripped him after a Nuggets game. During the closing minutes of that game, there were some bizzare decisions by Lebron. Melo torched a poor Cavs player while Lebron was in the corner D'ing up against a Nugget who wouldn't touch the ball in a clutch situation in 3 million years. Melo demanded to be put on Bron on the other side and was.

Bron got the ball, beat Melo and had a wide open three attempt. He decided to drive instead and ended up kicking it to a covered Vucovic with the game in the balance. I thought that a star player should have been in a more critical role defensively and that there was no excuse for your best player not to take that wide open shot with the game on the line.

I think the guy is an incredible player and I think he can develop the last minute game without a ton of trouble. And I'd much rather have him taking the threes than passing it there, so I think he's got that down better. But I'm not sure why the other numbers are sliding. It's a bit troubling.

*ahem ahem*

We deserve to lose this game after that play :mad:

Lebron has played better as of late. I think its obvious his toe injury was affecting him quite a bit. His free throws have recovered and his explosiveness to the basket has returned. The one thing I don't like about his game at this stage is he's always settling for jump shots at the end of games instead of taking the ball to the basket. The guy can get to the basket any time he wants, its like he's trying to be MJ toward the end of his career and win games with 18 foot jumpers.

Something I see with the Cavs is, outside of Lebron, the team has the basketball IQ of a 2nd grader. Lebron ended up shooting a fade away 3 at the end of regulation because Drew Gooden failed to react to the double team Lebron got. He just stood there. Larry Hughes has never been a smart player, he gets by on god given talent. Lebron doesn't need all stars around him, he needs some guys that know how to play basketball. And probably a coach that can actually play to the team's strengths, too.

Ping: Michael Jordan's entire career :D

And while we're at it, what about that Manning guy in Indianapolis. I mean, it took him what, nine, ten years to win a title. The guy is an all-time choker. And don't get me started on Elway. The slacker was nothing without Davis. And what about Julius Erving or Karl Malone. Erving couldn't win a title until he was a pro for over 10 years. The guy sucked. And Malone, most overrated player of all time, never won a title.

I just can't believe the ludicrous criticism Lebron takes. What is he, 21, 22? Jordan was labled a choker for quite a long time before Phil Jackson came along and gave him a winng strategy to work with. I suppose when Greg Oden goes pro he'll be a choker if he doesn't win a title in his first season.

There are some flaws with your post. I agree with the gist of the post. Yes, Bron has plenty of time to win titles, MVP awards and all the rest. He's a 22 year old kid with incredible upside. He's going to go down as one of the top 10 players in the history of the league in all likelihood.

But the flaw is the people criticizing aren't doing it for a title. They are speaking of individual games and how he's playing. When I give the criticism, I'm giving it because I'm seeing some things that concern me. His numbers are down across the board and anyone who is objectively watching has seen a decline in his play this year, teammates aside.

The Lebron James I saw two years ago is a better player than the one out on the floor now. Now understand, what I'm seeing now is an all star. A terrific player. But it's not what I saw two years ago. The guy I saw two years ago got assists because he made great decisions and ran the offense to perfection. He utilized the talent around him (however sparce that was) amazingly well.

The guy I see now is getting assists (and less of them) because he's dominating the ball. he's getting assists in the same way Stephon Marbury or Gilbert Arenas gets assists, not the way he used to get them or a guy like Nash does now.

It's a disturbing trend. I expect he's going to get everything fixed and even if he doesn't, he's still a superstar. But for those who are really studying the game, there is a drop off now. Thet's not a criticism, it's a reality.

Over the past month and a half he's been playing at almost the same level he did last year. He's averaging 30.3 points, around 6 rebounds, and 7 assists per game. His shooting has also gone back to last season's levels, with his free throws actually better.

I think you underestimate the affect his toe injury had on his game, how bad his teammates are at playing basketball, and how bad his coach is at putting Lebron in situations to succeed.

Shall I point out all the people in this thread critiquing Lebron because he hasn't won a title?

amdaily said: "With the Cavs or not, he'll never be on a championship team."

mateo said: " I refuse to call him "king" of anything until he hoists up the golden ashtray", I'm going to assume that's some sort of championship reference

noop said: "Man he should have gone to college where he atleast could have felt the pressure of a conference tourney and March Madness." how many NCAA tourney runs did Kobe Bryant have?

Has he had problems this year? I suppose so. Is the team likely to win more games than last year? Maybe, but they will be pretty close.

Has Lebron won more games in his first three seasons in the NBA than Michael Jordan did. Yes, 127 to 108.

Did Lebron get any rest this summer because of team USA committments? No.

I hope the fans in Cleveland aren't saying this kind of crap. If they are then they don't deserve him.

Interesting to see the Bron/Jordan comparisons in terms of last-second shots.

"I have missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I have lost almost 300 games. On 26 occasions I have been entrusted to take the game winning shot, and I missed. And I have failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is precisely why I succeed." -- Michael Jordan

I like that commercial ...

Okay one I wasn't talking about titles. Two Kobe has one his titles with Shaq and as proven by the Heats recent title I am willing to bet Shaq was the major reason why LA was so dominate. Also name me one high player who has one a NBA championship since the 90's outside of Kobe who had Shaq?

I like LeBron and I happen to think he is a great player but playing in march madness provides unreal pressure. Imagine if the NBA went to a NCAA formula where there was no series just one game either win or lose.

I watched the game against the Wizards last night and saw the same player I saw earlier this year. He forced up shots, didn't attack the rim and dominated the ball on offense. The only reason an undermanned Washington was downed was because they couldn't hit FT.

James did take over down the stretch though and showed some of the things that make him such a brilliant basketball player.

The coach is a very good point and one Cleveland needs to address. Still, he's not the guy I saw a couple of years ago right now. Maybe that changes as we get through the rest of the year. I'm ok with being proven wrong.

As for the people who mentioned championships, I think they are overexpecting. It's not a reality.

As for the rest. . .


They can only tie the number of wins from last year if they win out. This is in a pretty bad conference with Miami flailing away for most of the year. By anyones assessment, the regular season is a dissapointment.

A lot of guys have come to struggling franchises and won more games than Jordan did their first three years. Carmelo won 136 games in his first three years in a tougher conference and a team that hadn't been to the playofs in a decade. I don't point out the stat to show how great Melo is to Bron. I point out that stat to show that it's essentially meaningless. The turnaround proves he's a great player. We all know that by now. (just as anyone who isn't a moron realizes Melo is a great player) But the flat out win totals are irrelevant. Just because Melo and Bron won more games than Jordan in their first three years does not mean they are going to have a better career. (by the way, both James and Melo will have more wins at the end of their fourth year than Jordan did and will likely finish ahead after year five as well, as Jordan won 47 games his 5th season, a number both the Nuggets and Cavs are likely to eclipse next season)

There were a lot of players who played in the World Championships. This includes the guy who is going to win the MVP this year (Dirk) and a slew of other players who have had great years. (Bosh, Melo, Hinrich, Joe Johnson, Linas Kleiza, Diaw, Ginobili, Obero, and Nocioni to name just a handful) Yes, I'm sure it wore him down a bit, but it wore everyone else down the same.

Besides. . . if you are making excuses for why there is a dropoff, it just affirms there is a dropoff, right? That's an observation and an accurate one. I'm not LBJ bashing because I happen to point it out. You don't need to defend him to the death. It's ok, really. He's a terrific player and I'm sure it's a blip and nothing more. Noticing and pointing out the blip isn't out of line or being over critical. To each his own. . .

In short, basically LeBron would rather hang out at strip clubs with Donyell Marshall, Damon Jones and Larry Hughes til 4am than worry about regular season basketball. There is a deep rooted problem in the cavs roster and coaching staff, basically the players that they have are extremely limited, and their coaching staff does not have control of the team. Perhaps they could put it together and win 16 playoff games and the title this year, but I'm not holding my breath.

He can have Phil Jackson. As good as the triangle is, the Lakers need to adjust their strategy to the personel that they have.

I'm not a Cavs fan per say (don't like em, don't hate em), but I'd be willing to bet there are a ton of Cavs fans out there that would love to have him.

Dude, at this point any coach would be an upgrade. I guess I shouldn't be so negative on the team, there have been some guys emerge this year. Daniel Gibson was playing great before he got injured, basically getting anything out of a 2nd round pick is a bonus. Sasha Pavlovic has shown that he's an NBA caliber starter. If the cavs don't resign him this summer, I think that he's the type of guy that could come out of nowhere next year, maybe put up like 16ppg. Anderson Verejao is like my favoritist player in the world, although his minutes and production are inconsistent. I'd much rather see him start over Gooden, but that won't happen. If they cut down on flopping next year, I think it could hurt him. Guy has a knack for getting position, but even i'll admit he's the biggest flopper this side of Vlade Divac and Manu.

Larry Hughes, on the other hand, can kiss my ass. He has a 2 million dollar bonus if they win 49 games this year, and honestly I hope they don't get there. I know it's petty and shit, but he doesn't need anymore pocket change for strippers. I hope to god he's on the first thing smoking out of Cleveland this summer. Too bad Joe Johnson wasn't available to us that summer, cause with him I think they'd be nearly at championship level.

CLANK!!!

You are reading way too much into my post. My point is the criticism of Lebron not winning big games at the buzzer, and therefore certain posters labelling him a choker at age 22 is ludicrous. I only posted those numbers up there to demonstrate that at one time the guy considered the greatest clutch player ever was also labelled a choker by his critics at an even more mature age than Lebron. About the only excuse I'm making for Lebron is the fact he has had no real time off in two seasons and he is far and away the youngest guy out of those you mentioned above. I stand by that as a legit problem for him to deal with that few players have had, certainly none as young as him and none who play as many minutes per NBA game as him.

If you want to delve further I think Terry Pluto has some very good questions for coach Mike Brown here: http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/...o/17046907.htm

I also think Pluto stands up very well for Lebron when he says the following:

If whatever team you root for were offered Lebron please tell me here and now you would wish them to get somebody else. Short of some guy named Kobe I can't think of another player in the league I'd rather build a team around.

Just got home to post that :D

Jordan was labeled a choker? Huh? He was labeled as selfish. He was labeled as a guy who shot the ball to much. But choker? No. The guy performed well in the clutch right from the start.

As for who to build around now? Bron at the moment, but that's only assuming this drop off doesn't continue. If it does he becomes one of a group of guys you could easily consider. I watched the game against Detroit today and saw the same things I've seen this year.

As for the minutes per game figure. . . James doesn't play 41 minutes a night. Oh, I know, the stats say he plays 41 minutes a night. But he makes up for it by sleeping on defense 15 to 20 percent of the time. That isn't an insult. He has to do it or he'd be worthless in the final five minutes of every game. He's been doing it from his rookie year, but people have overlooked it, because he's the king. They put him on the opposing teams worst offensive player most of the time for that very reason.

Would a real coach change things? I dunno. James +/- is pretty ridiculous. When he does go off the floor the team really sucks. Just because he's dropped off a bit from the previous two years doesn't mean he's not a great player and he's beyond valuable to that team. I think a new coach would have the idea of resting James more and then use him for 40 minutes anyway.

George Karl talked about using Allen Iverson for less minutes to conserve him. He's still at 42+ a night and Melo is rising up toward the 40 mark. If you take out a game where he got into foul trouble and a blowout, Melo is averaging around 41 in his last 15 games.

I don't think his minutes are going to change. Don't worry about me. I'm just selfish. I want to see the player I saw two years ago. THAT player was the guy you could compare to Mike or Magic. This one isn't quite at that level. I want to see him get back there. Shoot me.

Living in Cleveland I've watched 90% of their games. I don't think Bron and the Cavs have any shot to getting back where they were last year. Mike Brown is probably the worst coach in the league. His rotations are a joke!

Also, don't flame this but I truly feel King James has no heart. He does nothing "off the ball" for the team. You never see him give a pick or really dig for a rebound. On D he'll play a very lazy passing lane attempt to steal the ball.

To me Bron is a great player but does not have the X factor a great player has. Here is hoping the Cavs fire Brown afer they get a 5 seed and lose to the Piston in the 2nd round and hopefully get a coach in here Bron respects...

Pretty much agree with you 100% here.

I don't get the people so down on LeBron. He's 22 years old and does more with less than anyone else in the league. What other 22 year old player would you possibly want to build a franchise around than LeBron?

Does anyone think that LeBron's "drop-off" maybe have something to do with the fact that he's got a terrible coach and that the front office has surrounded him with a bunch of crap and doesn't do anything to make it better? Jordan was the greatest player ever but he had reliable help - Pippen has been named one of the 50 greatest players ever, he had Ron Harper who was a good defender and could make shots, Paxson and Kerr that could make open threes when teams doubled MJ, had Rodman to rebound and in the prime of his career Horace Grant was a more than serviceable post player.

Look what LeBron has to work with. Larry Hughes is no Scottie Pippen and at $13+ million the biggest steal he has all season is from the Cavs bank account. Drew Gooden? And they resigned him for $23 million over 3 years last summer? Z is ok by the standard of centers in the league and then you've got the flavor of the minute at the other spot (Snow, Pavlovic, Gibson). LeBron hasn't displayed the passing ability that Steve Nash has but LeBron doesn't have Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudamire to pass to either.

The fact that they're in the playoffs period shows what kind of talent LeBron is (and maybe how bad most of the teams in the East are). I think his "drop-off" - which I don't really think is much of one - is because he's tired of being a guy that people expect should be winning championships and matching feats of the greatest player of all time when he's 22 years old and has nothing around him.

The Cavs are 3-1 w/out King James. So the talent surrounding him is not that bad. It's Brown f'n up the rotation and his love for Eric Snow.

I don't have an opinion either way, but 4 games is hardly a valid sample size.

My point is that I feel their surronding talent is adequate. They're not playing to their potential...

I kind of have the theory that ESlow has compromising pictures of the coach. Otherwise there is no reason for playing a guy that should see the floor no more than 5 minutes a night. I'd bring snow in for defense at the end of quarters, and possibly for a few minutes here and there if another guy is hot. But nothing like the manlove Brown shows him. Brown finally let Pavs stay in longer than 2 minutes at a time, and the kid's showing he's a player.

His number #1 lineup should consist of:

Hughes at the point
Pav
Bron
Varejao
Z

Keep that lineup in there 80% of the time and you win games!

"". I think Troy had a fairly reasoned approach to this, but its still ludicrous - he's being blamed, at 22, for not being Jordan. If the NBA were to do a draft from scratch, does anyone doubt that Lebron would last past the #2 pick (I'm assuming someone might take Kobe)?

Again, four games is too small of a sample size to prove the point you are trying to make.

Get rid of LeBron if you want. There will be 28 other franchises ready to take him off of your hands in a few years.

dola

However, I would choose Wade over LeBron.

My own 2 cents.

Dude, if we did that, we wouldn't get to see Hot Donny clang wide open threes, and see David Wesley play! Shannon Brown can start, but he can't play more than 8 minutes total. The rotations all year have been a clusterfuck. Gooden is just a mystifing player, he's really good at times, but then he will revert back to being an invalid again and, for example, foul someone shooting a 3. There need to be wholesale changes this offseason, starting with Hughes, hopefully also Gooden, and others. Team needs to get stripped down to the studs, and basically outside of LeBron/Anderson/Z(untradeable, but still effective in spots)/Pavs/Gibson/Shannon everyone needs to go.

dola,

I'd choose Wade too, and I probably watch the cavs at least 75% of the time.

But who were the games against? What was the margin of victory? Was it the Celtics by a combined 6 points?

Actually the one game they lost this year without LeBron was vs the Celtics(no paul peirce). Celtics can't even figure out how to tank correctly.

I love watching Wade play, but there is no way I'd take him over LeBron. Wade's style of play along with his stature seem to leave him prone to having injuries problems early in his career. Besides, despite his clutch ability, he doesn't have quite the skill set of LeBron. Wade does have great intangibles which is why I could see him at least being considered ahead of LeBron by some.

Yes. Until Chicago beat the Pistons Mr. Jordan was most certainly being labelled a choker and a pretender. He was even being compared to Dominique Wilkins in the grand scheme of things. Sorry friends, but for a 22-year old, Lebron is winning a lot more NBA games than Jordan. Lay off the guy, please, before he decides New York would better appreciate his talents.

So, um, just kinda curious where all the Lebron critics stand these days.

His team still needs to win 10 more games this offseason for any measure of real success. But assuming they can finish out the nets, I'll be happy for this year if he can put together a strong perfomance vs the Pistons whether they win win or not. They just don't have all the pieces to have a championship level roster, but they're getting close.

Lets see, 4th quarter stats:

1/5 from the field
2/6 from the line

Lucky to get out of that game alive.

So would it be better if he was 1/5 from the field and 2/6 from the line in the 1st quarter and they had to play catch up the whole game to barely win?

Winner.

Nets avoid elimination despite six points in fourth

not a fun game to watch. Another game that I have watched Lebron and come away unimpressed. But somebody has to win this series, neither team is really trying to actually win it though.

you get the feeling that any team thats already been eliminated from the West would have finished of either one of these team and been playing in the Eastern championship round

If the Cavs do end up making the conference finals, I'd like to hear how amdaily continues to criticize LeBron.

The most ironic word in your sentence is "if". They should have been in the conference finals after last nights game. Did you even watch the game last night? Lebron and his team did not want it last night. They lost at home to a team that only scored 6 points in the four quarter. SIX. In the end you are judged by what you do, not what could of/should of happened. Maybe we will see Lebron take over a game, a game that defines him and sets the tone for the rest of his career, but for now, all I see him do is roll over, show really no emotion, and in the end, lose games that should be won.


Jerry West, whose body outline is the symbol used by the NBA, once said that he hated to lose. It was the worse thing. If I only scored 20 points in the game, I considered that a horrible game.

How many points did Lebron score last night... 20.

The Nets shot the ball well last night and the Cavs, as a team, didn't. Thats why they lost, it has nothing to do with emotion or rolling over or not being able to will them to win. Larry Hughes was 1 for 14 at one point and Lebron did play poorly, but it happens. You can have a bad game in the playoffs or a regular season game in November. The fact is Lebron does have a team in which he's asked carry one win away from the conference finals, which is more than anyone can realistically ask of a 22 year old with absolutely no help.

I'm sure Lebron hates to lose too, so I don't know where you're going with that. Jerry West average 23ppg in the playoffs as a 22 year old. As a 21 year old Lebron averaged 30 per game in the playoffs last season and is averaging 26.2ppg, 7.8rpg, and 8.1apg this season.

Why are people are expecting Lebron to be playing like a 10 year veteran as a 22 year old?

part of it might be that's it's hard to envision him getting much better than he is now

Was Jerry West a few years out of college?

Does Lebron James have Elgin Baylor to average over 35ppg in his first 2 trips to the playoffs like West did?

Didn't both Jordan and West have only 1 full pro season completed at age 22?

Lebron has 4. Stop comparing ages and look at professional experience.

Swell, but what does that have to do with the comment that you made in your post and I highlighted? You can't compare ages with most players then and now. It would be like me asking how many Rings did Kobe have at this point of his career compared to MJ.

Admirable try though...

Age plays just a big of a role in development as pro experience, if not bigger. Kobe didn't average over 25ppg until his 5th season in the league. Garnett didn't average 20 until his 4th.

The difference between players now and players "then" is players then had at least 2 years college experience and generally were able to step in and contribute immediately. Kobe didn't, Garnett didn't, Jermain O'Neal sure as hell didn't. Lebron did.

Kobe wasn't expected to come in and play as a rookie. Garnett wasn't either. The AAU circuit is much, much more publicized these days then before. I'm not trying to say that Kobe as an 18 year old is better then Lebron as an 18 year old, the draft spot proved that from the beginning. Kobe was good enough to play as a rookie, but he wasn't drafted with the thought that he was going to be nearly as good as he turned out to be

But the point is that years in the league couldn't even be used as an excuse for high schoolers until Lebron came around. Lebron changed everything. Until he came along high school players were seen as long-term projects that would take 2-3 years to contribute, it not longer. Age is the defining factor in a player's development and it shows when you look at the other high school players that went directly to the NBA. He stepped in and average over 20ppg as a rookie and over 30ppg in his 3rd year. Something no other high schooler had come close to matching.

The expecations for Lebron have been unrealistically high since he entered the league and for the most part he's actually surpassed them. His team won a playoff series his first time in the playoffs and he has his team 1 win from the conference finals in his second trip. Yet people make it seem like his team wins in spite of him instead of because of the things he does.

If he's overrated its because of insane expectations, not because of the things he's doing on the basketball floor. He's one of the 5 best players in the NBA in his 4th year at 22 years old. Thats awefully damn good no matter how the hell you look at it.

Obviously he was crap on Wednesday, but not to make excuses, he may have had a reason.


Between this, I hope she's okay, and Z's wife losing twins earlier this year, Hughes's Brother dying, it's been a bad 12 months for the team. Hopefully everything works out for his girlfriend.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

Let's see, Kobe is at home, Dwayne is at home, Shaq is at home, Jason is at home, the current MVP is at home, the guy who was MVP the two previous seasons has gone home. Other than Tim Duncan which superstar has had a better postseason run than LeBron? And let's see, Michael didn't make his first conference finals until his fifth season in the league. But I'm sure the haters will come up with something else to criticize LeBron for. Like maybe his sweatband wasn't worn in a professional manner and he chewed gum at the press conference. And he committed more than one foul and missed more than one shot and how he actually had to rely on teammates to win the game. What a slacker.

A simple "I'm wrong" would have sufficed. But thats ok, keep digging.

You shouldn't speak to a more intelligent poster like that.

About sums it up.

Fixed.

Lebron needs to learn the trait of sucking the first 3 and a half quarters of a game then playing his best the last 6 minutes of the game.

Of course I don't think they should even bother keeping score the first 45 minutes of a basketball game, the first 7 innings of a baseball game, or the first 58 minutes of a football game. It should be a clutch-off to decide the winner.

So does that mean Utah and the players on its team aren't to be held in high regard since they only beat Houston and Golden State to get to the conference finals? The East may be inferior on the whole but Detroit certainly doesn't fall into that category. Then again the alleged best team in the West didn't get out of the first round...

Name me one player on the Cavs roster other than James that you want starting on your favorite team. There's nobody. He's got a supporting cast full of flashes-in-the-pan and never-will-bes and his team is in the conference finals and just beat a team with three players that many teams would LOVE to have (Kidd, Carter and RJ). Give the kid his due - despite nothing around him and a terrible coach he's got his team in the conference finals. They have little chance of beating Detroit but outside of the Spurs I don't know if anyone does so that's kind of hard to hold against LeBron.

seems to be a pretty clear division here between the basketball fans and the sports fans who watch it during basketball season or the playoffs.

the criticism of lebron is pretty shallow and subversive at this point. without james, that team may well be the worst in the entire league. with him, they have a good shot at making the nba finals. he's 22. what more needs to be said?

Keep telling yourself that clutch players exist. Really, its cute.


Your attacks on Gary's game are getting old and annoying and its looking more an more personal. I never bought his game, but I'll respect him as a game designer, as do most people here.

Fix not being clutch? What are you going to do, rub a mixture of the blood of Derek Jeter, the hair of Michael Jordan, and the sweat of Larry Bird all over him while Dr. J says a prayer for him?