Toddler's temper ousts family from plane
 

ORLANDO, Fla. - AirTran Airways on Tuesday defended its decision to remove a Massachusetts couple from a flight after their crying 3-year-old daughter refused to take her seat before takeoff.

AirTran officials said they followed Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seat belt upon takeoff.

"The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family," AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said.

Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly.

"We weren't given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything," Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday.

The Kuleszas said they told a flight attendant they had paid for their daughter's seat, but asked whether she could sit in her mother's lap. The request was denied.

She was removed because "she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat" during boarding, Graham-Weaver said.

The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day.

They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said.

The father said his family would never fly AirTran again.

Good, serves them right for not controlling their child.

Huzzah!

Absolutely 100% the right decision.

That kid needed a good spanking. But then they would've arrested the parents for child abuse. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

The 3 extra round-trip tickets seemed unnecessary.

Sounds like the airline tried to accommodate them the best they could. They refunded their money and (I'm assuming) flew home for free. Also offered 3 free roundtrip tickets. All of this after they made an obvious correct decision (one I wish resturants would enforce). And the father responds in this way. No wonder his kid is a brat.

My thoughts, too. If I understand the article correctly, they get three free round-trip tickets because their child wouldn't behave? I see a rash of "misbehaving" children on AirTran flights.

WTF? How did they let the kid climb under the seats? If it was my kid I would have squeezed him until he passed out.

You guys do that, right? :)

While they may have lost 3 customers for life, I am pretty sure they significantly increased the loyalty of about 112 others.

Not a bad trade off. . .

So they weren't out any money, they got three round trip tickets anywhere Air Trans flies, and they're still bitching because their child was disruptive? Holy crap.

On a related note, I now know what airline I'll be flying if I ever have to travel with my kids. It sounds like an airline that tries to do right by everyone.

I've gone through a situation like this, so I can sympathize with both sides...

My 4-year-old daughter had Cerebral Palsy. When she gets upset, her inclination is to stiffen up like a board and stretch her legs out as far as they can go.

On a flight last year to Arizona for a family wedding, we purchased a seperate seat for her and brought her car-seat with us for safety. Unfortunately, that meant her legs - when straight - were right up against the back of the seat in front of her.

Prior to take-off, I explained to the guy in that seat that my daughter has CP and that during the flight she may kick his seat. It wouldn't be in play, rather it would be out of fear/anger/pain and we couldn't really control it. If it were to get bad, I offered the guy anything he wanted to get from the stewardess in therm of drinks, or I'd switch seats with him so I'd be the one getting bounced around. "No problem!" he said. "Don't worry about it" he said.

Well ,the plane takes off and my daughter starts to lose it. She's scared and the change in pressure is really hurting her head and ears. Buckled in her seat, he's crying pretty loud and kicking the seat in front of her. Well this guy just loses his temper, too. Yelling at us to make her stop, etc. I re-iterate my offer to switch seats, but he refuses. So what can I do? I told the guy "Listen, you're probably in your 40's, and my daughter is 3. She can't help the way she acts, but you can. Either let me help you or shut the hell up." He groused the entire flight, but didn't make to big of a scene. On the way back, we gave my daughter a big dose of cold medicine to clear up her head and make her drowsy, and we checked the car seat so her legs wouldn't reach the seat in front.

So what am I saying? Give kids and the parents of kids on airplanes some slack. I'm sure they don't want to be on that plane any more than you want to have them there, plus when the flight is over, they're still stuck with the kid.

The parents in *this* story? Asshats. Both of them. Good for the the airline to boot them off.

No shit - I'm booking with Air Tran and I'm gonna make sure the little one pitches a World Championship level fit. Free roundtrippers? Aw hells yeah.

They were on Good Morning America today.. GMA made Air Tran seem like the devil...

As someone who used to travel alot I applaud the airlines descion. The mother claims they didn't have enough time to calm the child yet the flight was already delayed 15 minutes? How much time did she need. Serves the parents right, learn to control your child.

dola- Todds story was the first thing that came to mind was perhaps the child is handicapt but it dosn't seem that way.

That doesn't surprise me but I think most rational people who have any travel expierience will side with Airtran

It's amazing how so many parents think nothing about how their children make the rest of the world miserable. Whether it be misbehaving at a movie, on a airline, or at a restaurant, it's almost like they want to subject the rest of the world to the horrors they endure every day. (Not all parents, of course)

Edit: I would love to see these same parents' reaction if their precious child was injured as the result of their inability to control her.

This story sounds like what more parents should do. You recognized that your kid might cause a disturbance and did everything you could to minimize that disturbance. If the guy isn't going to take your help then he can't really complain. It is the parents that are oblivious to the antics of their child that really bother me.

This is the parent mindset that completely annoys me. When parents think, "they can deal with my kids for a few hours, I have to deal with them all day". Why is the latter my problem? I've chosen not to have kids, in part because I'm simply not up for that enormous responsibility.

Although, you did handle the situation you described 1000% better and with more consideration than most parents would have.

The parents were asshats, no question, but a couple of observations.

1.) Spanking the kid would have made the situation worse, knucklehead.
2.) The story doesn't indicate that the 15 minutes the flight was already delayed was because of this situation. Just as likely the flight was already 15 minutes delayed because of weather or maintenance when this situation arose.

It's pretty much my MO that whenever I've got to fly with the kid, I let everyone around us know that drinks are on me if the kid acts up.

while they fact that they are complaining about this even after getting free tickets is a toolish thing to do, i can imagine how mortifying it must have been if the child where truly out of control.

How many people take you up on that offer? I would think that the fact that you are trying to control the situation would cause people to be much less annoyed.

Having traveled quite a fair bit the past two years, I completely understand what the airline did and applaud their decision.

That said, I am certain that the parents were embarrassed and inconvenienced by the airline's move. The airline made restitution. They are a business, they have the right to refuse service. There's no issue here that I see.

I understand kids are kids though, and those that expect parents to immediately beat the ever-living shit out of their kid as soon as they cry on an airplane are the ones with the problem, not the kids and not the parents.

Its perhaps my lessening faith in humanity coloring my perception, but my experience is that most people will react just as the man did in Todd's earlier story. Then when it hits the fan they explode anyway.

That's the point :) I'm basically saying "Yeah, I know flying with a screaming kid stinks, I'm basically helpless to do anything about it".

I bought a couple of Bloody Mary's for some old couple once...but I think they were just taking advantage of my free-drink program.

That is really all us non-kid-having people want. Know what your kid is doing, understand the effects on people around the kid, do what you can to stop it. Parents seem to develop the ability to totally tune out their kids when they want to (probably out of a need to keep sane). The rest of us haven't developed that ability.

The way I see it, this story could not be more positive for Airtran.

They're not going to inconvenience all the passengers because of a bratty kid, but you also see that they're willing to go well beyond to satisfy the family that was kicked off the flight. If anything, this would make me MORE likely to fly Airtran.

As a parent, fully 50% of my time is spent being mortified. They should be used to it by now. ;)

Here is a link to the ABC news story and a video interview with the parents. The parents are perhaps the biggest idiots I have ever seen. The father speculates that since the girl recently had ear surgery she felt pain on the trip down and didn't want to get back on the plane which is total BS. If that kid felt any kind of pain on that flight she would have thrown a fit.

ABC also did a horrible job with the interview not having an Airtran rep on ( they never indicated that Airtran may have refused). The kid was totaly antsy during the interview ( all of 5 minutes) and if anything it made me feel less compasion towards the family.

My first reaction si to agree with evryone else and say the airline was 100% right. But, the initial post at the beginning of the thread was apparently just one point of view. Below is another. I am not giving an excuses but the 3 year old just had an ear operation a few weeks earlier and , as it states below that may have been a factor in the child flipping out. I don't get the the feeling these were bad parents or a bad kid. Also, the mother was 4 1/2 months pregnant and the 15 minutes sounds liek a delay that was not caused by this incident. And the article certainly gives the impression of the airline staff coping attitude. I for one and sick and tired of the attitude I get form airlines myself sometimes. Anyways read the article below for like I said the otherside of the story.

"In her finer moments—mainly when she’s on land — 3-year-old Elly is an adorable and sweet-mannered child, a blue-eyed charmer who likes to dance and harbors a particular fondness for Thomas the Tank Engine.

“She’s a typical 3-year-old,” said her mother, Julie Kulesza of 7 Primrose St. in Worcester. “She has her moments like all 3-year-olds, but she’s not like one of those ‘Nanny 911’ children you see on TV.”


Elly’s dad, Gerald Kulesza, is a full-time EMT in Boston who also attends nursing school full time, and he did so well last semester that Elly’s mom surprised her husband with a trip to Florida to visit his parents, who live in Bonita Springs. So on Jan. 11, the family flew from Logan Airport to Fort Meyers on AirTran Airways, and even though it was Elly’s first plane trip she behaved like a dream and spent most of the flight coloring in her coloring book and watching movies on a portable DVD player.

“She was great,” her mom remembered. “When we made our descent into Florida we could see the water and she shouted, ‘Look, mommy, there’s the beach where we go swimming,’ and everyone laughed.”

Yes, it was a heartwarming moment for all concerned, and the trip was great, too. The family swam and went sightseeing, and on Jan 14 they drove back to the airport for the return trip home. They checked their luggage — a suitcase and a car seat. As they waited for their flight to be called, Elly contentedly munched on a bag of Cheetos and watched out the window as the planes took off and landed.

Then came … The Boarding. Suddenly and without warning, angelic little Elly morphed into every parents’ nightmare.

Her mom thinks it may have been because of the ear surgery Elly underwent earlier this month, and perhaps her memory of the discomfort and ear pressure she endured during the plane’s descent into Florida. For whatever reason, when they got on the plane, Elly started to cry and wouldn’t stop. Nor would she sit down — she plopped herself down on the floor in front of her seat and proceeded to throw a temper tantrum.

“I was trying to console her and the stewardess came over and said, ‘Did you buy that seat for her?’ remembers Ms. Kulesza, 31, who is four months pregnant. “I said yes, and she told me my daughter needs to sit in it. I told her I was trying.”

Moments later, an AirTran Airways employee armed with a walkie-talkie addressed Mr. Kulesza.

“Sir, you need to get her under control,” she said.

“We’re trying,” Mr. Kulesza noted.

The passengers, meanwhile, were quite understanding and one of them offered the toddler a lollipop, which she rejected. Then the walkie-talkie woman returned to the Kuleszas’ aisle and displayed the raw tact and diplomacy of Donald Trump.

“Sir, you need to get off the plane,” she announced.

“What?” a stunned Mr. Kulesza asked. “Are you serious?”

“Sir, you need to get off the plane now.”

They got off the plane, while their luggage and car seat flew on to Boston. In the terminal they were directed to an AirTran supervisor, who told the couple that the stewardess was uncomfortable “because you have an unruly child who struck a woman on board.”

Mr. Kulesza was incredulous. “That was her mother,” he explained. “She hit her on the arm. Lady, this is a 3-year-old child we’re talking about.”

“Sir, we don’t differentiate between 3 and 33,” the AirTran supervisor replied. Mr. Kulesza said the woman proceeded to lecture him about child discipline, and how she would never tolerate her children behaving in such a manner, at which point Mr. Kulesza said, “You really need to stop talking now.”

The couple were also told that, since they had been ejected from the plane, they were banned from flying with AirTran for 24 hours. So they were forced to return to Bonita Springs for the night, and Mr. Kulesza missed a 16-hour work shift, and the next day they returned to the airport and can surely be forgiven if they fed their daughter enough Children’s Benadryl to fell a stallion. I exaggerate, perhaps, but it’s certainly what I would have done. In any case, Elly slept through the return flight home.

The incident has sparked varied responses from those who heard the story. While many people — mostly parents — sympathize with the Kuleszas, others are less inclined. For example, when I related the tale to an unnamed colleague and asked if he had ever heard of an airline bouncing a child from a flight he said, “No, but I’m all for it. Couldn’t they have checked her with the baggage?”

This colleague, as it happens, has no kids.

AirTran, meanwhile, has apparently had a change of heart. After the airline received a phone call Thursday from yours truly, an AirTran customer service rep called the Kuleszas, apologized profusely for the incident and refunded them the $595 cost of their tickets.

“We do believe the situation could have been handled differently,” said AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver. “We will use this case as a means to train our agents on dealing with this type of situation on our flights … While there are FAA regulations that mandate all passengers have to be securely fastened in their seat belts before a plane can depart, we need to work with our customers in situations like this to help them — and that is what we will focus on.”

Ms. Kulesza is appreciative of the response, but believes she could have calmed her daughter down, if given the chance.

“It wasn’t like she had a bomb strapped to her waist,” she noted.

AirTran also extended another offer to the Kuleszas — free airline tickets to the destination of their choosing. The offer has been declined.

“I said I appreciated it, but I told them not to bother,” Ms. Kulesza said. “We won’t ever be flying with that airline again.”

As a parent of a toddler, I am in complete agreement with AirTran's actions.

The problem I have is all the talk of what a great kid she is comes from her mother, grandmother, etc... I would love to hear a first hand account from a passenger on the plane. Plus I would be more inclined to cut the family a break if I knew information on the 15 minute delay and what caused it.

That being said I would be pissed if I missed a connecting flight because people couldn't get their kid under control.

I think you could take either side in the arguement, until you stop and realize that the Airline doesn't owe these people a good time or any special accomodations.

If the child was unruly to the point of climbing under the seats and the parents weren't getting it under control to the staffs happiness then the parents ought to close their mouths and do as they're told. No excuses.

They can complain all they want but their child was causing a disruption for everyone else. I hope any airline I travel wil do the same.

and yes, I have a toddler.

I weep for the world.







;)

If I had sat on the floor and refused to get in my seat when I was 3 my parents would have picked my ass up, deposited it in the seat, strapped me in and that would have been the end of it.

If they were already delayed, I'm sure they didn't want to delay themselves further.

Regardless of whether or not the child was screaming, if the child wouldn't stay in the seat, it is a safety risk. I'd probably get bounced from the flight too. Really, how long do you wait to delay an entire plane?

Don't you dare insult my children.

Pick on me all you want, you leave my family out of it.




Besides, she's FAR better mannered than *I* am.

Dude, I *was* picking on you. :D

;)

The "other side" of the story article is hardly investigative journalism - it is obviously written strictly from the family's point of view. As such, I'm taking it with a grain of salt given the obvious motive for the family to make them look as innocent as possible and the airline and its employees as ungracious as possible.

It wouldn't surprise me if some of the AirTran employees were more abrupt than they could've been, and it's possible that one of them did indeed lecture the father on parental responsibility (and if true, said employee should be disciplined). But the end result is something that I agree with - if the parents couldn't control the child and the child's behavior was disrupting the ability of that flight to continue, then bravo to the airline for having the guts to do something about it.

If AirTran is an airline option for me in the future, I will give them priority consideration for my business.

AirTran can suck the collective left nut of all Midwest Airlines passengers.

Air Tran? No thank you!


http://www.aviationaccidentlawnews-n...tyreports.html

OK, I stand corrected. But I do approve of their willingness to consider the feelings of all passengers on a flight and not just an isolated family.

That seemed to be quite the loaded article. She "behaved like a dream", "Angelic little Elly", quotes from mom and dad. "Perhaps she remembered the discomfort of the descent"...there must have been lots of discomfort while she was being cute and pointing out the beach where they were going to go swimming. Nice quote by the unnamed colleague who suggested she be checked with the luggage. I think this is basically an OpEd piece disguised as real journalism.

What a silly argument. If you click on the link, the information about all of those airlines is pretty scary. Many of them have far more violations/fatalities than Airtran. Plus they say it received an F rating. When did it receive this rating? It seems like the most recent data is from 1997-2000?

Also, the paragraph on Airtran is including fatalities/violations from the ValuJet days. Well Airtran did not merge with ValuJet until 1997, so it seems pretty silly to include stuff from before that as reflective on AirTran's safety.

I second that sentiment.

Um... I'm pretty sure they're not giving the whole story there, especially since AirTran was founded in the 90s. For those stats you were giving, you'd have to go back to include ValuJet who they merged with in the late 90s after the ValuJet accident in Florida. Back in the day, ValuJet flew a lot of older planes but nowadays, that's a lot different.

SI

Sorry, it's not that hard to get your kids under control. She's 3 years old, not 3 months. With any type of discipline she would know that she can't in fact throw a tantrum and not have reprecussions.

Parents are all about coddling these days. It doesn't work. You don't neeed to beat your kids to have effective discipline. You do need to give them consequences for their actions. Even at three, they will understand.

This kid has no discipline whicih is why they couldn't console her. Now it's everyone's fault but the parents. Imagine how angry they would be if the situation were reversed, the airline waited, and they missed a connection because some brat couldn't be contained.

Control your kids. Not everyone thinks they're cute.

One more thing, when did it become okay to hit your parents. Had I hit my mother when I was three, she would've beat the living Hell out of me.


I only got spanked once in my life but I knew my boundaries.

:rolleyes:

Not if you do it right. Although more than likely in this case, I would've spanked the kid after the fact for causing the scene in the first place... but first, as someone else said I would've gotten my kid in the seat, strapped them in, and been done with it. That's how it would've gone down. My 4 year old has lost it before. And usually if we're at home I just let him cry it out.... but if it is in public, then we either adjourn to the bathroom for a nice chat, or we can leave. My 6 year old still has control problems, but is much better about them now than he was 3 years ago.

It's never come to that, because he knows to calm down before we have to visit the bathroom. It's all about what works with your kids. My kids are good most of the time, but all kids push boundaries. In this case, whether the kid was remembering the pain of the initial flight in or not, they still needed to be in a seat... and delaying a flight for 15 minutes while somebody calms their kid down is excessive and was dealt with appropriately. If I couldn't control my child for that length of time, I would fully expect to be excused and asked to leave wherever I was.

Sorry, but this is a dumb blanket statement.

Maybe, but it's irrelevant. It's doesn't matter to me how difficult it is, if you can't control them, keep them the hell out of movie theaters, restaurants, and even planes except in extremely rare circumstances.

True and True.

Unfortunately, there are some people who *don't* have kids that are so self-involved that even the slightest peep from a kid qualifies as the child being out of control. I guess as long as my kids are behaving to my satisfaction, I'll take them wherever I want. :)

I think that you're missing the point. Your kids are ypur responsibility. I have no idea whether you keep your kids under control or not. But When someone goes to a movie or out for dinner or whatever, they didn'rt pay good money to be bothered by what you consider to be a reasonable amount of tantrum from your kids.

It wouldn't surprise me to see AirTran get an uptick in business from this story. All things being equal, I'd fly them over another bargain carrier if this were their normal policy. That goes any restaurants, cafes, or thetres that had such a policy too.

See this guy was just a plain ass. You did everything you could in regards to the problem and he just wanted to be a dick.

Just so we're clear (a parent speaking to non-parents), the phrase "keeping you kid under control" does not equal "keeping your kid perfectly still and silent". Kids make noise. They talk, they laugh, they yell, they cry. It certainly is *not* appropriate for kids to scream and cry continuously in an environment where atmosphere is important (out to dinner, at the movies, in an airplane to a much lesser extent), but to expect children - be them babies, toddlers, or teenagers - to be silent is a complete misunderstanding and misconception on your part, and that is your problem to deal with, not the parents.

When I'm paying good money for that same dinner, then no one else gets to fucking tell me what is a reasonable amount of noise from my child, so long as they are not being physically disruptive. Deal with it. There are lines that are crossed, but as others said, a kid who is making a bit of noise is not necessarily out of control just because there are people nearby who don't like kids.

However, in this case we are talking about a kid causing a physical disruption in others' lives. There is a large difference.

Oh they are MY responsibility? Thanks. That's probably where I fucked up.

It took a few messages but, glad to see the thread devolved into the 'I have kids so you can't say anything' vs 'I don't have kids so control them' argument.

Nicely done...

You know what I get tired of? Parents that let their children run all around a restaurant (even if it's just around where they are seated). I also hate it when parents don't do anything about their children yelling, there is a time and a place for yelling and it's not when you are at the movies or out to dinner.

If a child is being disruptive, be it vocally or physically it is the parents responsibility to control them and to be extra sensitive to the others around them. This is the responsibility you take on by having children and taking them out, you have to be more aware as to how it affects others.

Fix'd.

I think we all agree there are limits. I think the argument is who gets to set the limits. And for some people there is no middle ground.

The middle ground is a well behaved child. :)

I've often thought that restaurants should have a family section of the restaurant. Kids do make noise and parents shouldn't be prevented from going to the restaurant (assuming they make reasonable efforts with their kids), but even reasonable noise can be disturbing to people. Why not put all the families with kids in one section and the families without kids in another section? At least that would localize the noise and hopefully be a decent compromise.

As mentioned before, well behaved is in the eye of the beholder. A bit of noise that is reasonable to some is outrageous to others. For some there is no middle ground.

There's a "bit of noise" and there's "no one else gets to fucking tell me what is a reasonable amount of noise from my child". Your latter comment is a little ridiculous, because courtesy is ALL about the other party, not your own interpretations of what is reasonable. If someone thinks its reasonable to park across 3 handicap spaces, they're still a jackass. I honestly think some parents are amused by watching the rest of deal with what they deal with all day.

Here are the lines, (just in my opinion), since people are talking about different things:
Restaurants: Everyone's talking and laughing, so obviously that's no big deal. I don't give a crap what a little kid or anyone else is doing unless it's volume is to the point I have trouble conversing myself.
Movies: If it's a G-rated kids movie, then there's leeway, but you have to expect that going in. But if you're taking your kids to a movie that the general population is attending, and they don't have the discipline to stay completely quiet, wait for the video.
Planes: I really think planes demand the most courtesy in terms of drugging your kid or taking the long drive instead. Some people need to work on planes, some people need to sleep, and everyone can hear what everyone else is doing. Talking at a reasonable volume is fine (and from my experiences, most kids are great on planes - either that or parents are politely drugging them or waiting until they're older to take the long vacation).
Public places: People really need to pay attention to where their kids are. If I have use to an ATM, and there's a random little kid playing with it, it shouldn't be my job to discipline him in getting him to move and figure out where his parents are (that happened yesterday).
Court: My favorite place - any peep and the bailiff whisks the kid and mother away.

I don't hate kids. But I personally would never have any until I was financially comfortable to the point where I could afford child care or have a stay-at-home parent. I am alarmed daily at the kinds of people are that reproducing quickly in our country.

I figure we were all children once, and as such, surely annoyed somebody. I'm willing to cut parents and kids some slack.

We were at TGI Fridays one time and one of my four year olds got up from the table because he had to go to the bathroom and he totally dropped his pants and started peeing right next to the booth!

Fortunately he did this quielty and did not disturb the surrounding casual dining patrons. Plus he is a little angel and has the cutest little bottom. Like two little bubbles!

Okay, Subby wasn't ever a kid. He emerged fully formed from the forehead of Zeus. He's that sexy.

Think of what bothered you when you didn't have children and then times it by two. That's probably a good place to start.

A bit of noise is fine, but is that bit of noise the kid going. "MOM! MOM! LOOK AT THAT!", "MOM I' HUNGRY!", "MOMMY"

For 15 minutes? That disruptive.

Nah, parents earn their slack. If they make an effort and are willing to take their kids outside for a talk when they get really bad, I'll give them some slack. The parents who feel that they deserve a meal out and can take that time to not pay attention to their kids get no slack. Efforts need to be made on both sides.

First problem was that you took your child to TGIFridays. ;)

Parents look at it this way. If there was a group sitting next to and they are being loud and obnoxious (such as cussing loudly and yelling). What are you going to do about it?

Agreed. It's the ones that let their children talk over the PG-13/R rated movie that the child shouldn't be watching in the first place. And the parents that let their children run around the theater without doing anything about it that get no slack.

The previous statement I was referencing, however, said that people going out "didn't pay good money to be bothered" by a child. So, the inference I got was that the childless get to determine what is reasonable behavior for the child, instead of the parents. And, insofar as that statement is concerned, "no one else gets to fucking tell me what is a reasonable amount of noise from my child". I've never had a complaint, but on occasion my wife has been approached by people in grocery stores with suggestions about how to control our crying, fit-pitching child... to which her response has always been: fuck off (well, in more polite terms).

If you want to get into a discussion about a lack of civility in society, that's one thing... But it is certainly not confined to children's behavior, and it is certainly not confined to people being overall less tolerant of any perceived slights. They're both contributing factors.

Aside from the fact that in a non-children's movie, if you kid is talking, laughing, yelling, or crying, even if it isn't "continuously", you are completely ruining the movie experience for everyone else in the theater as much as some guy who wants to talk during the movie is.

Unfortunately there is a certain amount of parents that don't think there is such a movie. They think their children should go with them to see, "The Hitcher" with a side of "Wedding Crashers". And then they wonder why Johnny misbehaves.

Sin City is my six year old's favorite movie. The cartoon-style violence and clever dialogue remind him of Tom and Jerry. When we saw it in the theater together he kept screaming for Rosario Dawson's character to get killed because she had such a frightening hair style. A couple of people yelled at him to shut up, but his yelling was really cute in a Verne Troyer sort of way that I just threw my hands up in the air and chuckled!

Haha. comedy gold.

Depends on your meaning of comedy... I guess. If I paid to see the movie, I wouldn't have found it funny.

I'm assuming he was joking. If he's not then it's not funny...

I'm lost when there is a lack of smilies ;).

Can we come to an agreement on this one then? I will give you and your family some slack at restaurants like Applebee's (etc.) because kids will be kids and I do understand a little bit about how kids behave. And then when you choose to take your kids to a bar to eat and the adults around you are rowdy you can give us some slack with occasional cussing and debauchery because you know you are with your 6 year olds eating at a fucking bar.

I guess you had to be there, then - because he is really, really cute (like Danny Pintauro in his heyday cute) - so you see this cute kid screaming at the screen and pleading for violence - I don't know - I guess it just struck me as completely hilarious.

We should have a scared smilie... oh, and as hilarious as it may have been, I wouldn't have minded it in a restaurant like a Fridays or something, it isn't so much in a movie theater, especially with the cost of tickets these days.

lol at dudes getting upset because they took their date to Fridays and families were there with loud kids.

No one should be upset if they went to Fridays and some kids were loud. It's Fridays for fuck's sake! Now if the kid was constantly screaming... that's another issue, as I'm sure the resulting headache wouldn't be welcomed by anyone. But just loud kids... pfft. It's a Fridays for crying out loud.

Is it the "bar" at that same Applebee's?

Forgetting about bars, and moving on to restaurants, doesn't this just make noise in general louder and louder? I moved to Chicago recently, and it feels like every time I go to a nice restaurant, everyone is just way too loud. I blame yuppies most, but kids are to blame as well. Or at least families -- come to think of it, the last time I remember was at a Trattoria, and there was a family (or two) at a table near us, and the parents were by far more annoying than the kids.

I am talking actual bars. They have tables to sit at and eat but after 8:00 those same tables will be filled with people drinking alcohol. This is obviously from personal experience. There is a Missouri home football game during the day, afterwards the fans go to actual bars to celebrate (not McDonalds, not even Fridays, real bars), and then people with their kids get upset when it is rowdy and loud.

That's what keeps running through my mind when reading this thread. Everyone is so bent out of shape on how a child might disrupt their movie or restaurant experience. The following scenario is far more likely and highly annoying.

*sitting in a restaurant or movie theater quiety*
*cell phone rings... answered by stupid fuck*
"JOHNSON HERE.... pause.... YEA, I'M IN A RESTAURANT, CAN'T TALK."
"WHAT, YOU'RE BREAKING UP"

Once again absolutely nowhere does it say that the 15 minute delay was because of the child.

ah, so what? I'm assuming they leave. Unless a couple of crooked stares derail the party train.

After 8:00 these things normally take care of themselves.

They already had 15 minutes to shut the kid up. Regardless if it was because of them.

If it has gone on since boarding and for 15 minutes since with little visable hope I think a resonable person would beging to think this may in fact be a problem for the flight.

That's just me. Some people would sit there for a couple hours hoping the child tired themself out. I think it's safe to assume the airline acted in good faith in trying to do what was best for the safe and timely completion of this flight.

No they don't leave. They complain to the manager.