Baseball sims 2008
 

I am surprsied we haven't much from any of the "Big 3" in baseball text sims on the new round of games? So what are the options this year:

Puresim
OOTP 2008
Baseball Mogul

I still need to learn OOTP. Maybe this year.

puresim better

Here's what I know from trolling all the boards and from a little inside info...

OOTP 9 - Still a few weeks from beta testing, and no official word on what's in store. Given the late beta start, I really doubt we'll be seeing a new version of this game for the start of the season.

PureSim 2009 - No announced release date yet, and not a lot of info on what 2009 has in store for us, except for some UI changes that Shan has already shared on the message boards. The most recent news was that Shaun was battling some health issues, so that probably put a damper on any progress he was making. I'd guess that this will be an "in-season" release like OOTP.

Mogul 2009 - Sounds like Clay is prepared to launch his latest version by the start of the season, but I'm not sure this has been officially confirmed or not. Folks that currenly own 2008 will be able to participate in the beta for 2009, and I would expect the first beta to show up soon since there is already talk of a pre-beta release that some folks are testing with.

Ok, an update Shaun has psoted that he is more or less in semi retirement again due to personal stuff and a new release is unlikely for this season but a patch at some point is possible.........
Mogul is mogul as usual...........
OOTP 9 is going to be mostly new rosters and bug fixes. That isn't a bad thing, but with that interface from SI; I won't be purchasing it.
So........................
That leaves us with repaly sims:

Dimond Mind Baseball-the big blue of basbeball sims but it's interface makes command line look elegant.
Action replay Baseball: Don't know much about it?
Strat-o-matic Baseball:Played the board game as akid and really liked it. How is the PC game.
APBA/Baseball for Windows 6.0: Has been delayed until the fall at the earliest. Anyone played the 5.5 version or the APBA pc game?


So it looks like either Strat-o-matic, Action Baseball, or the last APBA game/baseball for windows v5.5. I know Jon in Middle Georgia is a person here who is well connected with the replay games maybe here or Craig S can give some recommendations which is the best of the three I mentioned?

For what it's worth, OOTP is no longer affiliated with SI.

So...dunno if they're going to keep the interface or go in a new direction.

Wouldn't Marcus have said that a new/revised interface was part of 09 if that was the case?

I believe on the OOTP boards Markus said a number of times that the interface is staying last year when the split was announced.

I think the SI interface is staying with OOTP.

-Cork

BM 08 is still getting playing time from me, far from perfect, but TONS OF FUN and the interface is the best in any baseball game, imho.

BM 09 is in beta and mostly the release will consist of better AI, bug fixes, and a few other things Clay is working on.

This will be my baseball sim once again this year.

I know I am keeping my interface and nobody can have it.


Dumb jokes aside, that blows donkey about PureSim.

I purchased BM07 and played it more than any other Baseball sim in the past few years. I skipped 08 since it didn't seem like enough of an upgrade to warrant the purchase, but I hope that 09 will be worth it. I also have not purchased either of the SI OOTPs and think that this might be the year for me to re-immerse myself in that franchise.

Ok, I was in hiding but glad to see someone else enjoys this as well.

OOTP just did not interest me, and I played Mogul extensively last year and have spent most of the day today playing it. I love it. Sure it's not overly deep, but if I just want to fire up a team and quick sim through a history it's a blast. I'm really enjoying it, and not getting bogged down in the details.

Yeah it has a lot of issues, but I agree about the interface and just love the ease and quickness of play. It's perfect for a quick-simmer like myself.

I'm interested in seeing what is added this year.

I've never really given PureSim a try. I guess I should do that sometime.

Looks like it's OOTP 9 or bust this year, I have no interest in replay-only games.

Some people don't understand why folks would play Mogul. But I appreciate the simplicity and the appeal. I don't mess with it anymore, because I like the detail of OOTP and I like it as a fictional sim over PureSim (and I think familiarity helps too)

But..Mogul does have value and the fact that's effectively the same game after all of the years must be an asset.

I'm right there with you about BM, I've attempted to tout those same points of the game, but people here tend to not like it because they want to have full and total immersion. I love being able to just quicksim and look at some stats for the hell of it.

I could not stand BM 06 or was it 07? and made myself known, but 08 has been quite immersive for me. It's actually quite deep stat wise, but it's simplicity is what draws me back into its world.

I'm done with OOTP and I don't think I'll go back, but who knows. For now, BM has my money and I hope Clay keeps it semi-deep, but at the same time simple.

BM is quite good as others have said for just "fire it up and sim a season quick and check out the stats" type of play. And there are things that I enjoy about it. I bought and played, then skipped , not sure what I will do about this year

I just wish one release one year from any of these games would focus on making the AI tougher. The roster logic in OOTP is ridiculous.

I'm curious, is the appeal in only playing the latest versions of these games or would you consider playing older versions?

I would play whichever one is better. But I don't think that 6 is better then 8 or whatever you want to call the current version.

Can you create fictional leagues in Baseball Mogul? I like the idea of the simplicity, but I prefer fictional leagues. Also, how is the manager AI in BM?

Yeah, there are options for fictional players and fictional teams when you start up the game. Nothing near the options as OOTP when it comes to leagues obviously, but it's there.

I can't say much as to the manager AI. I really do almost nothing but sign players and sim through seasons. It's a great game for just jumping into a world and doing what if's, or looking at stats quickly over years. I haven't dove into the nuts and bolts so I couldn't tell you much on the AI managing.

Another thing I'd like to harp on is that it has the feature I've always wanted in FOF, where I can lock a player to a position or batting order and then have the AI autofill the rest of the lineup. Very nice little feature.

I agree that locking in player and auto filling the rest of the lineup is great. I think the real question with any of the big three (OOTP,Pursesim, BM) is how well any of the them handle the AI management. I haven't looked at any of these in detail as far as the AI manager aspect goes so maybe someone else has a better idea.

I've spend many hours just poking around my BM 08 career last night and everything seems within the norm as far as CPU AI managing goes. I'm sure you can find examples of poor AI decisions, but for signing players and player trades, everything over the last few years in my career seem fine.

I'm in season 4 and the big complaint with BM 08 was it's too easy to keep winning once you have your team built up.

With the Cardinals starting on 07, I've finished last, 4th, and 3rd last year, so it's still a challenge thus far.

It's the opposite of OOTP though in terms of interface and information.. the interface is my favorite part of the game and to me, there's just enough stats and what not to call it a baseball sim. (actually a tad more like DICE).

Thanks, I appreciate the info about BM. One more thing... I like to manage all my games. How is BM as far as in game strategy, manager AI, etc? I notice they have a pitch-by-pitch option. Anyone use that?

I do plan to try the demo, but it may be a few days before I have time to really get into it.

Never used pbp, but I've read it shows you where the ball goes after its been hit and what not. Head over to those forums, there are some threads about pbp.

http://www.sportsmogul.com/vbulletin...lay.php?f=1725

They're retaining the 'gist' of the interface I believe however I'd expect that they'd try and respond to feedback to make it more user friendly where it is provided.

(ie. if you have issues with it then suggest constructive improvements - these might be in the stance of wizards to allow some common things to be easily done or rearranging screen information etc. - if you don't ask you don't get and all that ;) )

I'm seriously thinking of switching back to the BM series.

The last few versions of OOTP have left me cold and so has the message board community over there.

BM 09 webpage is up: http://www.sportsmogul.com/games/baseball2k9.html

You can also get BM 08 for $19.95, although BM 09 looks like it's released tomorrow. :)

I haven't played Baseball Mogul since... well... since probably the first or second one.

I love OOTP for my fictional leagues. But I just never liked the newer versions of OOTP for real players. Is the consensus here that Mogul is better when using real players and simming fairly quickly?

I like Puresim better for historical replays. I guess I like baseball enough that I could have a use for all three games :)

I can't speak for anyone but myself but ootp has grown too deep for me. For quick simming, BM does as good of a job of doing what I want it to do.

Looks like Clay has expanded the stats a bit, but I am so happy he's retained his interface!

I plan on buying the game tomorrow if indeed it's released and I post some impressions as well as I'm thinking I'll write a dynasty as soon as I finish this season in BM 08 and then I can start fresh with BM 09 once HoustonGM releases his roster set sometime at the beginning of April.

The dynasty will allow me to put 09 through its paces and see what's changed/improved from 08.

I finally have my team built in BM 08 and I'm hoping my last season is a trip to the WS. Believe it or not, adding Mark Prior to my rotation might have been the piece of puzzle I've been looking for as he's rebounded nicely, and so far, has remained healthy. (keeping fingers crossed)

In Mogul are there still instant free agent signings and no negotiations? I haven't played the game in several versions.

Yeah. Not sure if that changes in the new version but it's that way in last years.

Yep, still the same in 08.

I must be blind, but I'm having a tough time finding a page over there that details the new features in BM '09 compared to '08. What am I missing here?

edit: NM, I'm completely blind and missed MizzouRah's link all together. I was somehow at the old page and checking the forums and it was tough to find.

I found BM > OOTP for real-players. OOTP just has too many variables or whatever that make it so hard to get anything approaching real-life statistics.

BM is much easier to just "pick up and play" and get more realistic results, even if it doesn't track 17 different kinds of VORP and win-shares and stuff.

That said, I never bought 08, but I did play 07 for a while. Definitely got my $$ worth out of it.

Shame to hear about puresim - that would definitely have been on my list.

I do need to re-DL that onto this new computer and re-license it though, I think for historical-play it was awesome.

man I like those BM screenshots. Once I give the demo a whirl that may get my "baseball game $$" this year. Particuarly because the price-point is attractive.

I have a short dynasty going on in the dynasty forum for my last season with BM 08. :)

I buy Mogul every other year, usually play it non-stop for a few weeks, and then put it away. Never could get into OOTP, but if the sim-speed has increased since the last version, and they simplify the interface a bit, I'll give it try.

I don't understand that, this has always been one of the most fun aspects of any pro text sims, along with drafting and trading.

re: BM - has the whole "changing pitchers between starters and relievers" thing been simplified? It seems like it ought to be a lot easier than it is - in fact I don't think I can tell you how to do it.

BM blows chunks. The stats have always seemed way off and other problems that I have noticed with BM 07 have ruined any kind of immersion factor (like the game scheduling my team on a month and a half road trip-- home record in July 0-0). I thought I remember there being some strange injury things too, like a guy leaving a game with a broken arm only to be in the lineup the next day, or something like that (that's one tough SoB).

I have tried a couple versions of it and it always ends up on the shelf very quickly with my having major buyer's remorse.


On the scheduling thing: what is it about today's baseball games that can't get scheduling right? The freaking scheduler for Earl Weaver worked near perfectly from what I remember. BB Pro was the last game I remember where the schedule actually seemed about right.

It was 06 or 07 that totally sucked, but 08 has been a blast.

Baseball Mogul 2009 is out: http://www.sportsmogul.com/games/baseball2k9.html

$24.95

any impressions? I'm going to wait for the demo i'd guess, but i'm curious anyways

I'm not sure if I quite buy or get BM's "comeback" around here, but I'm curious about the new one. Is the only pitch that it's "easier" than OOTP? If I'm managed to somehow overcome my average intelligence and can understand OOTP, are there any other things that BM does better in the game itself?

I think there is something to be said about ease of use. Shrug. I've got an urge for baseball and none of the console games are going to fill that for me this year, I'm not convinced OOTP is going to be the answer as there are too many flaws that bug me still in last year's version, so I'm going to give BM 09 a chance after a hiatus of a few years.

+1

I just want a game I can pickup and play and get reasonably realistic results after a night of play. With OOTP there's too many moving parts that can result in things getting messed up it seems to me, and you end up with weird-ass results.

My first impression is that Clay needs some mirror links for the setup file. It is going VERY slow as in 13kb/sec. At this rate, it is going to take 2 hours for me to download a 103 MB file.

I guess this is probably a good sign for his early sales.

Am I correct in assuming OOTP is still unable to accurately reflect the MLB in terms of the financial/contracts and realistic roster moves aspect of the league?I have no interest in setting up custom fictional leagues, Im looking for the baseball equivalent of FOF or something close to it.

So are the BM stats/AI Roster Management better than OOTP? I'm trying to figure out if this is actually a better game, or if people are just moving to it out of some kind of OOTP spite, which is what it sounds like.

Because (IMO), you can certainly get "reasonably realistic" stats in OOTP, especially if you scale it down into a BM like universe.

So what better, BM, or OOTP scaled down to a BM type-game?

I'm not moving to it because of OOTP spite, but rather because I find OOTP lacking in a few critical areas and I want to answer those questions you are asking for myself.

Edit: The 24.95 price point is low enough that I won't feel that bad if it ends up being a bomb since I haven't bought the series for a few years.

It only took about an hour and a half to download the file.

Second impression. I really like how easy it is to set up the league. 5 choices on the main menu:

Modern which immediately gives you control of any team with real players and real minor league rosters as of 2008. All data looks realistic such as population, financials, etc. It took seconds to set up.

Classic which lets you pick any starting year from 1901 to 2007. I took control of the Phillies in 1920 and that went very smoothly. It then had appropriate financial, city population, etc from that era in the setup screen. This option uses the Lahman data and has an option to loads players stats from previous years. It took under a minute to set up with that option on.

Fictional which allows you to take over a fictional league any year from 1901 to 2008, but with real players stats loaded into the universe as a backstory if you choose. I didn't try that, yet.

Expansion: Take over either the Angels in 61, Senators in 61, Colts in 62, Mets in 62, Royals in 69, Expos in 69, Padres in 69, Pilots in 69, Mariners in 77, Blue Jays in 77, Rockies in 93, Marlins in 93, Diamondbacks in 98, or Devil Rays in 98. This mode already has the players on the team which I think is a mistake. I'd probably actually use it if I could shape the team from their first step. I hope that might be changed. Still took under a minute to set up.

Custom: For running a fantasy draft, setting up a custom universe, etc. I'll mess around with that later.

Again, there is something to be said for ease of use and ease of setting up.

If you want really accurate rosters, a user named HoustonGM will have his out around the first week of April.

I have a BM 08 dynasty "lite" over in the dynasty forum that should give you an somewhat of an idea of the stats it produces, I also can click on anything in my almanac and give you anything specific you want.

It's not a baseball stat junkies dream game... but what it is - a game that's deep enough for the average baseball gamer, with one of the best interfaces in the text sim business, and I find it to be quite immersive.

I haven't tried the pbp, so I can't comment on that aspect. Plus I'm waiting to get done with my last season in 08 before getting 09.

Get the skin and logos by "Enzoli" as well as the player photos from the mods forum.

BM does not have a FA bidding session, the CPU gets their players, then you negotiate with yours.. a few other differences as well. I just love being able to fire it up and play a few months without it being a click fest.

Well, a lot of good and useful discussions here on the two main career sims. I have decided to go the route of the replay sim and had narrowed it down to Dave Koch's Action PC Baseball and Strat-o-matic's computer basball version. I decided to go with Action after doing a bunch of research on the two forums that helped my decision. I think if I was going with a board game it would of been Strat but not for computer.Though the replay sims are more expensive, $44.00 for game and three seasons and 19.95 for each additional season; I also spent a ton over the years on career sims. I have over the years bought Puresim 2005, 2007,OOTP 5,6,6.5,2007 and BM 2005, 2006,and2007 . And after all that I still haven't found a statisfying game like the Roos Games outstanding replay pro football game. All I know is I could of bought a lot of seasons with all the money spent on those games I just mentioned.

DMB is the king of the replay sims, though it is less than perfect. I've had Action down through the years and to me it just seemed a little on the shallow side.

I tired DMB and might be a great sim engine but god it had a terrible UI.imho. I returned my copy for a refund. DMB now has been bought by a guy who from what I have seen and heard is pretty much an arrogant jerk (Derek Smart-type) who is set on turning away from the games originally fan base of solo replay gamer and trying to make the game another Everquest or something...........But, as for Action Baseball, most people seem to be in agreement, that despite it's occassional issues here and there it's accuracy is comparable to SOM or DMB.YMMV:) I will give it a shot and see if it is at least better than BM or Puresim.

I just picked up my copy of BM '08 a couple of days ago at Half-Price Bookstore for 7.98. It is the first one that I have played since the original. Glad to hear that it is money well spent.

Does BM have an almanac? And if so, is it as deep as OOTP's? Does it import correct leaderboards, say if you start in 1950?

It has a new encyclopedia but I don't know how deep it is as compared to OOTPS.

I thought I would never see DMB and Everquest mentioned in the same sentence. Can you elaborate?

What I meant was that they appear to be spending a great deal of time and comapny resources on marketing and developing this new online DMB game where you pay as you go and not much is being said regrading the original "offline" game.

There was a bug for me (not everyone had this issue) that showed the LA Angels as every team for every year except the ones I played, so I don't think it worked right for me.

It has been fixed in 09 and one the new features of 09 is the encyclopedia is expanded.

I use it for 2007 and beyond and it's not close to as deep as CATO's for OOTP, but it's decent and I can't wait to see how Clay has expanded it for 2009.

What level do you guys usually play Mogul at? I just decided to get it.

Mogul

I'm trying it at Manager (3rd of 4 difficulties) and I'll move up to Mogul when I start a serious career as it is too easy to negotiate guys cheaply.

Any feedback on the new game? It's out right?

Yes it's out. I haven't purchased yet due to finishing up my 08 career and I always like to wait for HoustonGM's roster and any initial patch that fixes bugs that crop up after release.

Bought 09 today.. love the new depth chart screen, once I get some games in, I'll comment more.

Anxiously awaiting your thoughts. The last time I checked, the demo is not out yet. But I'm considering buying BM this year for the first time in several versions. I'll probably get burned again, but OOTP just hasn't been fun for solo play in my opinion - too much work. Too bad there won't be a new Puresim this year.

I decided to upgrade mid BM 08 season and all looks good. The encyclopedia bug still seems to be there, although I guess it could be in my .mog file from 08.

I'll get some good game time in today and have some more thoughts.

Edit: There is not alot new as of yet besides the depth chart screen, fonts that appear darker and easier to read, some encyclopedia enhancements, and a new quickstart screen I haven't used due to importing my current career file. I know Clay has a "release" patch coming soon to clean up some things though.

I would recommend heading over and reading some impressions from their forums as well.

Shaun did release a patch today that adds support for the newest Lahman, and fixes some big gripes from critics as well as 40 man rosters.

messing around with the demo for BBM 09. Really not sure what way I will go this year for a baseball sim...

That is too bad about BM. I fired up th new patched Puresim and was mildly disappointed by the way hisitorical player went even with affinity on. I can surely say it isn't close to a replay baseball sim type accuracy but since that isn't it's primary purpose I guess that is alright. Financial not sure what to say they still looked fucked. Three seaosn replays of 07 seaosn and all three times the Brewers were first in salary cap (highest) Redsox were 8th and Yankees 14th:eek: . Also the default AI managers are still somewhat off. I saw alot of instances where the AI left the closer forexample Rivera in game for 3innings or never broguht the closer in the ninth. Also, on my team the Red Sox I set the hook for each pitcher and it doesn't appear to be very accurate. Forexmaple Tim Wakfield pitched 10.2 innings despite the fact he was set to the patient (mid settin for hook).His oitch count was 120 pithces and he had given up only 2 runs and 8 hits in the first 9 innings but in the 10th he walked the bases loaded and give up a walkoff grandslam.

I think BM is fine at representing MLB. It's not OOTP type accuracy, but it's fun and addicting.

Once patch 11.05 is out (should be anyday) and HoustonGM has his roster set out, I would say that's the time to try the game for those on the fence.

Isn't shaun joining wolverine?

Yes Shaun has joined Wolverine and will produce Draft Day Sports: Baseball for us. DDS:BB will be built off of the PureSim engine - essentially its the next version of PureSim but prior to doing that he updated PureSim one more time for the people who purchased it from Matrix.

Trying the demo and I am pleasantly surprised. A nice amount of detail and not too cumbersome to navigate the interface. The in game animations are nice and add a little flavor (reminds me a little of Microleague) and it has a pretty nice almanac. Definitely not as deep as OOTP, but still fun.

A question for anyone who has it. In the custom league option can you import entire teams from different eras to play each in the same league?

An "unofficial" patch 11.06 is out.

I would ask that question over at the BM forums BYU.

Funny thing is, I just found out by clicking on the last 5 columns in the standings screen allows you to select other stat categories, much like you can do on the leaders page.

I've never done it but I'm 99% sure yes.

Picked this up over the weekend, and am thru about 2 months of a Mets career.

I'm really having a lot of fun with this. I would be much further along if I wasn't completely into the play-by-play mode. Seeing the game play out on screen, even if the animations are pretty simple, really takes the game to another level. I think the trading AI could use some work, the in-game AI could probably be a little better (I rarely see opponents tag up, but there is sort of a slider system so maybe that could be adjusted), and there seem to be too many injuries (I knocked this way down), but like I said, extremely fun and addicting. Pretty much exactly what I was looking for.

EF27 mentioned how the expansion mode would be much better if we could start from scratch with each team, and I definitely agree. Is there any chance of that being added?

Also, the last version I played was I believe the original...and this version reminded me of how awesome the Newspaper was in that game. Good to see it's still around, and I wish other games incorporated it as well.

Glad you are liking it! I've been playing the heck out of it.

For Baseball Mogul, I'd be curious if someone could answer these:

How do leagues look after a decade or so of play? In the past, league stats could really get out of whack after 10-15 years.

Does the free agent market clear well each year? In the past, there could be tons of great free agents wasting away in free agency at the start of the season. Sometimes this would take a few years to develop.

The thing is, those two issues really sucked in some versions of the game and totally rocked in other versions. I just got tired of figuring out which way a particular version of BM would go. Problems with those issues would make the game unplayable for me, and they often would either never get fixed or get fixed piecemeal over several months. And sometimes Clay would disappear for several months, and who knew what was going on.

good point. i'd be curious to hear what mizzou has to say about this

Yeah, getting good league data was part of the issue with Mogul back then as well. It's been a few years now, but I remember getting at it by looking at Team ERAs in the first year (I put them in an Excel sheet), then revisiting them after a 15- to 20-year sim. In the last version I looked at, there were clear and strong changes over time. I forget which way the game always went (more runs or less), but there was something wrong with the player generation balance in the game. You could then further identity the problem by glancing at league leaders, etc., but it was all hit and miss as to specifics.

Not every version of the game did this, however. Some years things were spot on, and you could run a career for thirty or forty years with great numbers.

If I remember correctly, the free agent problem sometimes corrected itself after a few years as well, so judging it by one year was tricky. In some versions, however, the problem would get worse each year.

Maybe things have gotten better with Baseball Mogul, but I'm still hesitant.

I'm only 3 years in.. everything seems ok so far.

Link to HoustonGM's opening day roster for BM 09: http://www.keepmyfile.com/download/2ab05f2208951

He does one hell of a job.