Marvin Harrison
 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3378829

Who saw that one coming? Whilst that story is somewhat brief, what few details are there seem pretty well damning.

Ouch. For everyone.

I wasn't paying attention to the NFL Draft, did Harrison get traded to the Bengals? It's the only way this makes sense to me...

Wow. I wonder what that guy said to him.

:(

At this point, it seems like the best a Harrison fan could hope for is that he's just protecting someone who used his gun. That would be stupid enough, but if he's actually the shooter, then I don't see how he's playing for the Colts next year.

This kinda gives a darker, more Taxi Driver, feel to the way the camera always catches Harrison sitting on the bench stoic, silent and on his lonesome.

...furthermore, if I were some multi-millionaire athlete, and I owned a car wash, you could go there for 365 days in a row, and you would never actually find me there.

Apparently Outside the Lines covered this just now, and added these details:
- may have been a fistfight in the bar before the gunfire
- the bar had had problems with this guy before
- gun fire "exchanged" (more than one shooter?)
- the guy who was injured had done time for homicide

So it sounds like it may have been a case of a known bad guy causing the trouble. Still, if Harrison is shooting at somebody he's not going to be playing any time soon even if he does manage to avoid doing time.

Best case scenario: Harrison went to calm the chap down, at which point the gentleman pulls out a gun. Harrison acts quickly, shooting the gun from his hand and saving the damsel who was subsequently injured when the scoundrel's weapon shattered a pane of glass.

holy shit

Wow. Stunning. In a bad way. :(

Hmmmm....now it comes out that there's not one, but two seperate incidents in the past which involve Marvin choking out small children.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2025485
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...52C0A9659C8B63

Charming.

Ugh. This hurts.

I'm suprised this hasn't turned into a thread about the Patriots yet!

Maybe he should've celebrated in the endzone when he had a chance.

I wonder if Roger Goodell will treat Harrison like any other player and suspend him for a significant amount of time, or give him a pass because he's been a "good citizen" in the past.

I'm guessing not:

I guess we can retire the "when was the last time you heard of Marvin Harrison being asked to talk to police" line now, huh?

As a huge fan that's seen every Harrison home game since he came in the league all I can say is.....WOW. It's one of the last guys I would have expected if you told me a Colt was going to be involved in a shooting incident. :( This just blows me away. So much doesn't make sense or add up, but it's clear Marvin knows more than what has been said.

It's not been a good past 8 months for Harrison with injuries and now this. If he's guilty...


Okay...to be positive here, maybe this makes him a popular WR now, don't all the popular ones today have to be a little crazy? :)

Wow. As a Colts fan this is very hard to take. Harrison always seemed like a guy who could snap someday and do some bad shit, but I'd always hoped it was just vanilla social akwardness.

How many times do we need to say it... if you're an NFL player and you want to shoot somebody, have the class to do it before the draft so your team can replace you.

Those articles are three and five years old. It's not that its coming out now, its that for whatever reason nobody paid much attention in the past.

They always compared his quite look and intensity to that of an assassin. Still, you wouldn't think he would be capable of this. This is a blow to every Colts fan today.

Who's "they"?

Sorry, a lot of the local journalists have done that in the past. I've seen in it in articles from the Indy Star before.

A little crazy is doing situps for the media in the driveway of your home. Batshit insane is choking kids and shooting people outside clubs.

Gotcha. I was thinking Jack Tatum passed his nickname on.... :)

Should make him even more popular, right? :) :( Nope, not a very positive spin. It'll be interesting to see what comes out of it after all the initial speculation dies down and more facts start to come out (and Marvin does some more talking to the police)

LOL. Tatum needs to come back and give Harrison a couple of hits to try to knock some sense into him if 1/3 of what's being said is true.

I can't say this often enough apparently: if you are a pro athlete making hundreds of thousands or many millions of dollars, DON'T GO TO A BAR OR A STRIP CLUB OR A NIGHT CLUB! You're just asking for trouble. At least once a month some guy is pissing his career away at one of these places.

I read the headline and was waiting for a bar to appear in the text somewhere...

and even better, don't OWN one! :rolleyes: What the hell is Marvin thinking?

For the most part, I agree with you; however, the percentage of NFL players that get in trouble in clubs is relatively small. How many players own or go to clubs and don't get into trouble?

Also, let's give him benefit of the doubt. It's not like he's convicted or anything, right? Innocent until proven guilty, right?

The trash-talkers are actually expressing their daily frustration in a healthy way. It's definitely the quiet ones who are more prone to bursts of anger.

That only applies to the government trying to obtain a criminal conviction. It doesn't apply to message boards or public opinion, nor should it.

Plus they already said the gun used was registered to him, and in PA, that's an automatic charge.

That's sad. At the Superbowl a few years ago, I ran into his mother, and actually went out of my way to congratulate her on not only the success of her son, but his "good character." Sigh...I guess I should wait to pass judgement until ALL the gory details come out, but man.

This is kind of like if Jerry Rice ran afoul of the law. :(

My point is kind of the reverse: of NFL players and NBA players who get into trouble (curiously, I'm not sure I've seen the same for MLB players), a significant percentage of the incidents involve a night club of some sort. You can pretty much count on it coming up in a description of the incident.

I see what you say but are these guys supposed to not live their lives?

A bar is a legit buisness and a sound investment. Eddie George has a bar in Columbus, you don't see him shooting people on the streets.

I think the people who get into trouble would find a way to get into trouble regardless.

dola- these guys would be in trouble even if they weren't in the NBA/NFL

Wow, Marvin has gone from choirboy to thug in what....5 hours?

Amazing isn't it.

If the NFL satisfied that Harrison did this, he has to be done in the NFL, doesn't he? Shooting at someone is worse than being involved in dogfighting. He was maybe a foot or less away from being a murderer.

For a hand wound? You're kidding, right?


Depends upon who you shoot, and why.

For all I know Harrison flipped & tried to gun down some guy in cold blood & is simply a really bad shot, I'm just saying I'm not sure there's anything short of a murder conviction that is really a surefire slam dunk career ending suspension at this point.

Are there any active major pro athletes who have shot another person (that we know about?)

Wanna parse the difference between shooting one and stabbing two?

Leonard Little killed someone driving drunk, and got, what, a 2 game suspension?

Assuming he actually pulled the trigger and it wasn't self-defense, he'll be charged with attempted murder, won't he? Doesn't much matter that he "only" happened to hit the guy in the hand. I'm sure he'll be able to plead it down if he goes that route, but he's looking at some damn serious charges to begin with. We'll see where it ends.

This is completely shocking to me. I turned on ESPNews around 6pm and sat stunned for 10 minutes when I saw this report. I hope it's not true, and that at worst, he's covering for someone else who used his gun.

Shooting at someone is 100,000X more dangerous than driving drunk.

Or some version of reckless conduct, or improper discharge of a firearm, or reckless endangerment. I imagine it depends on what the prosecutors think they have some change of proving/winning.

Intoxication can negate the specific intent necessary to demonstrate criminal intent (mens rea). Intentionally/willfully shooting someone is the more serious offense in most jurisdictions, assuming intoxication can be used as a defense to specific intent.

Or something like that. I don't do criminal law.

Seems like that depends upon who's shooting & who's driving.

There's a live guy with a hand wound vs dead victims (of the aforementioned Little and Danny Heatley to name a couple) that illustrate my point.

I would imagine shooting someone ALWAYS meets a probable cause standard for attempted murder, so they'd always charge with that, with the goal to get a plea of one of the charges you mentioned.

A drunk driver has a minuscule chance of getting caught. I'm guessing that Little drove drunk 100+ times before he killed someone.

Not saying that driving drunk isn't reckless, but it's silly to compare it to intentionally shooting someone.

I believe it varies by jurisdiction, but I would think there probably has to be some element of intent in at least some instances. For example, a scenario such as "I had the gun out because I felt my life was in danger, I stumbled & the gun went off as I fell." etc. etc etc.

I would assume that Harrison's good reputation in the NFL will count for something(as far as guessing what may happen here compared to Pacman Jones or Vick) and Goddell would take more of a wait and see approach w/ Harrison than he did with others. I could easily see him missing 4-8 games next year if he's just charged w/ any sort of crime here. If it ends up being attempted murder in a scenario KSyrup puts forth, surely he's gone for a year and we'll see after that.

Not saying he'll end up convicted of that, but absent some set of circumstances the authorities are willing to believe that would suggest something less than attempted murder, I gotta think they're going to go for the most serious charge and be willing to plead him out to something lesser.

Marvin wanted to do hoodrat stuff with his friends.

Maybe he's auditioning for the Raiders.

I'm stunned and agree with these assessment. I'd put money on neither of these guys being involved in this sort of situation. Stunning to me that Marvin is even being accused of this. :(

Of course, that was pre-Goodell and Goodell can't retroactively punish him for that, unless he does something else. I imagine that if Little had done that now, he would have gotten a much harsher penalty.

Not only does he own one, he owns one in North Philadelphia. Philly isn't exactly the most easy-going city, and everyone I know from the other parts stays far, far, away from hanging out in North Philly.

Per profootballtalk.com, this doesn't look too promising for Harrison:

The bullets reportedly came from a Belgian-made gun. Harrison told police he owns such a gun, but claimed that the gun never left his house. The gun was later found in a bucket at a car wash Harrison owns.

The gun was determined to be the same gun that fired the shots.

FYI, that was also in the article posted here.

I know its fun making jokes about teams or players that have "problems" but I think this goes to show that anytime, anywhere, anyone can become a criminal. Its just a matter of snap judgements and specific situations. Who knows what led up to it all, but it appears Harrison lost his cool and now seems to be lying about things to protect himself, which is what really stands out to me. I would expect, if Marvin really is this humble dude with a squeaky clean image, that he would have explained things more honestly to cops.. Now that he seemingly has lied about details, I would be willing to bet he has a reason to try and hide what actually happened. He is probably a lot more at fault than anyone knows yet if that is the case.

I couldn't disagree more.


Call the police, thats what they are there for.

I think you misunderstood.. I meant to say that even good people in bad situations can make bad decisions. He could have called police, but made a bad decision and now looks like he's on the hook for it.

I've never been in the situation (even remotely), but I have to imagine that once you've shot someone - even in a fit of rage that you instantly regret - protecting yourself by lying comes quite naturally, given the alternative. It's not like if he came clean (assuming this is what happened) - "I'm sick of this guy hanging around my bar, and I lost my cool and fired 7 shots at him" - the cops would thank him for his honesty and that would be the end of it.

Lesson learned: If you're going to own a gun, make sure it's not custom-made.

Shocking. Just goes as a reminder, you never know a person by what you see on television. Would have never guessed this, but I always like OJ Simpson until we got to see behind the curtain. *shrug*

From the local media here in Indy, Marvin and his lawyer are saying that published media reports are inaccurate. They asked for the public's patience.

I started following the Colts because of Peyton (UT fan). I grew to love the Colts largely because of Marvin.

I hope upon hope that they're right, but if it turns out he's a douche in disguise i'll be just as harsh on him as I have been on Vick, etc, etc.

Isn't that kind of standard lawyer-ese, though?

Well, even if it's standard, it's what they'd say if he was guilty, as well as what they'd say if he was innocent.

It's also true more times than not. Until the cops and prosecutors say the things I've read in the articles, I'd be skeptical of the accuracy of the reporting as well.

This is my point. It's a statement by the suspect and his lawyer which means absolutely nothing, because he'd say exactly the same thing whether he's guilty or not.

sab's point is well taken, as I'm sure there is plenty of info the authorities have not disseminated, of course.

I'm thinkin, though, re: Jerry Rice, didn't he have some trouble a while back, when he was with the 49ers? Jack-shack bust, maybe?

The Colts are my favorite team and I really hope he's innocent, but if not its just another reason why I have a hard time rooting for sport teams.

Found it:

hxxp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/1998/02/27/MN95442.DTL&type=printable

"Investigators noted that the hot tub was actually a bathtub."

Classy!

Rae Carruth, not active now (the whole incarceration deal) but wa active at time of act.


Depends on the quality of the shot I suppose, but Id wager the destructive possibilities of 1 drunk driver are MUCH greater than 1 individual with 1 hand gun. Gunmen rarely take out bus loads at a time...

It's rare for drunk drivers - I think you'd be shocked how many people are driving drunk on a given night in a major American City v. people getting shot there.

He's looking for a fall-guy as I type this...

Colts should definitely lose a first round draft pick next year.

No chance of that happening since this isn't a coach cheating like the Patriots did. This is an off the field issue, and that has never resulted in the team being penalized in the past with the exception of having the player suspended.

If this all turns out to be true, I hope he gets a lifetime ban from the NFL and the Hall of Fame, and spends some serious time in jail.

That said, I hope it all turns out to be untrue somehow. I've always liked Marvin.

The Hall of Fame ban is a bit of a stretch IMO, but if this all turns out to be true, and as bad it sounds, I hope he never plays for the Colts again.

Good thing for the Colts that it appears he's starting to fall on the downside of his career.

I was just thinking that. This is the first year where I'm thinking he's not a top top WR to draft in fantasy... and then this happens.

On the pure football side, this will very likely be the second year in a row the Colts lose a key offensive player unexpectedly right after the draft... last year it was LT Tarik Glenn and now this year Harrison. Luckily they preemptively addressed both positions in last year's draft with Ugoh and Gonzalez.

With the newly drafted receiving TEs from this year's draft I guess Indy will go back more to the two TE set this year. Marvin was really a big question mark for this season even before this so hopefully they're ready for to go ahead without him.

Didn't the Colts get Tamme from UK? His progress will be interesting to watch.

Yeah, Tamme looks like he'll be a step up from Utecht. And the LB from Georgia, Marcus Howard, looks to be the 3rd edge rusher they've been needing. I'm excited about this team, looks to be the most talented since the 05 squad, which was much better than the Super Bowl team. I'd love Harrison to be a part of it, but it's Wayne's show now anyway. I'd just like Harrison's career to end on a positive note...assuming he didn't go gangster on us. :confused:

Update: Looks like the investigation is at a standstill.

MyFox Philadelphia | No Charges For Marvin Harrison In Gun Case

PHILADELPHIA -- Philadelphia District Attorney Lynne Abraham says Colts receiver Marvin Harrison will not face any charges related to a gun incident earlier this year.

Abraham announced that decision at a press conference in Philadelphia on Tuesday morning.

Sources told Fox 29 News in late April that the shooting stemmed from a fight that took place in Harrison's bar, Playmakers, weeks before.

Sources said Harrison, who is from Philadelphia, and others tried to throw out a bar patron. That same patron came to a car wash, which Harrison also owns, and another fight started.

At some point, someone fired shots, and they came from Harrison's gun.

Police said the gun used in the shooting near Harrison's car wash in the Brewerytown section of the city belonged to Harrison.


The DA also said that the stories of all of the witnesses conflict. I think I heard on the news that they said they have 9 witness and 9 different stories. So unless something comes out during the civil trial, doesn't look like Harrison is going to get into any legal trouble.

I wonder if the NFL does anything, though, since they can prove his gun was used.

What's up with pro athletes that own car washes getting in trouble (remember Charles Oakley)?

Hey those quarters add up.

Well GQ put together an amazing investigative look into the Marvin Harrison case. The police and FBI are now taking another look into the case now because of it.

The Dirtiest Player: Profiles: GQ

I am a little late to the party here, but what did the gunshot residue test show?