Plane hits a building in Austin
 

Holy shit, this is less than a mile from my office. I can see the smoke.

Plane crashes into building in Austin, Texas - CNN.com

I was driving from Leander on 183-S and drove by the building. Didn't know a plane had hit it until I got back to my office. Very sad

Word is that this was deliberate. Evidently, it is an IRS building.

CNN:

12:42 p.m.: The pilot of the plane had set his house on fire beforehand, stole the plane and crashed it intentionally, a federal official told CNN.

Tea Partier?

:D

Certainly a better option than paying taxes.

One of my buddies works for Gemalto, which is in the building right next to this one. He's heading home, they've shut off power to the area so that rescue crews can safely get to some parts of the building that was hit.

Now CNN is saying it's next door to an FBI building but the building itself may not be an IRS building.

I was working a few blocks from there yesterday.

There is a huge IRS campus in south Austin. If this was done intentionally, he must have known his target worked in that building, rather than just picking an IRS target at random.

Apparently the guy posted a lengthy diatribe this morning:

Austin news, sports, weather, Longhorns, business | Statesman.com

Dear Joe,

tl;dr

Signed,

Sane People

Wow. Just read that (most of it, anyway).

Yeah, he was going after the IRS all right.

Sheesh.

Weird.

The Department of Homeland Security has made multiple statements about this and keep saying "This is not terrorism." So, um... It was (by all accounts) someone deliberately flying a plane into government offices as a response to our government's policies.

If not that, WTF is terrorism?

He's a white guy, expressing his patriotism in his own unique way.

I work right across the freeway from this disaster two of my coworkers saw this as it happened. If I was here a bit earlier, I would have witnessed it myself, but luckily I didn't.

One of my co-workers saw the plane as he drove past the building on his way to work, heard the crash and drove back around to take pics:

:(

Ya, it is terrorism pretty plain and clear.

Man, just how many of you people live and work around this building?

I never realized how much FOFC revolved around Austin, TX.

To be honest, neither did I. I know of cartman and no one else.

I was chatting with Bill Harris about this situation. He works a couple hundred yards from this building. I'm sure he'll post about his experience on his blog in the coming days.

Ummmm where do all these nutbags come from. Yeesh.

Well the creepy thing is that he burned his house which is less than half a mile from where I live and he crashed a plane less than half a mile from where I work. Sad and disturbing to know how many lives he just turned upside down. In fact reports say that his wife and daughter left the house to stay at a hotel because he was going on a tirade yesterday. They returned in the morning to see their house burned down and would soon learn of the crash. Geez.

Asshole.

Surprising that the world doesn't revolve around the West Coast I see... :)

Heh...if anyone out here was under that delusion, it would be quickly removed by turning on ESPN. ;)

Well Mr. Big Brother IRS man... take my pound of flesh and sleep well.

Apparently this is the guy who crashed into the buildings manifest.

Just read his internet screed. Damn... seemed to be anti-government and anti-corporation - kind of the government and corporations are screwing over the middle class, so I'll show them type of terrorist action.

Just can't tell who is the terrorist nowadays.

Yeah, the Internet Time Masheen shows that website as being for his programming company, before he changed the front page.

seriously - you guys could have an epic fucking meetup

When I read this part of the screed:


It immediately brought to mind this:



No, I don't have a South Park problem. I can stop watching anytime I want.

Texas? ;)

Bingo.

SI

Scary thing is that I agree with a lot of what the guy writes in his rant. It's pretty non-partisan, taking whacks at everyone out there on a variety of issues. And, frankly, it's a lot of the same stuff I know I talk about at work all the time and probably a lot of others do as well.

Not planning on flying a plane into a building any time soon to prove a point, tho.

SI

or setting your house on fire, right??? RIGHT???

Well, I have no house to set on fire so that'd be a tough one. I do have an apartment but that probably voids my security deposit, I'm guessing.

SI

Are there IRS people inside his house at the time?

This is absolutely disgusting in this day and age...who still gets their damn picture taking finger in the way when they shoot pics????

+1

Seriously - I think my mother must have taken that picture.

So I just skimmed this guy's "manifesto" - he's basically just a tax cheat that blames everyone else for his crimes. No different than a lot of criminals (except that he can fly an airplane)

There is no terrorism in the Obama-led US. Just a bunch of people who may beefs with us but who aren't actual terrorists. That word is just too scary.

:lol:

:confused:

Do you really believe that, or are you just trying to be intentionally asshattish?

With regards to the "manifesto": they're cogent, rational thoughts with a reasonably complex thought process behind them. I just don't agree with what he did with said thoughts. And I'm sure there's probably a story that will come out with them.

SI

I find it hard to sympathize with the words of a guy who implies that he is in money trouble, and yet owns a private plane. (And one of his admitted issues is his recent purchase of a piano.)

False flag to discredit the anti-government movement?

i thought he stole the plane?

Wait. You think dude flew the plane into the building to smear the teabaggers?

This must be the new Godwin.

Well actually, the guy is a Cali transplant, just like me.

A guy made an act of terror by crashing a plane into a federal building. It is known that he did it intentionally. Someone from the white house just came out and said this was not an act of terrorism on CNN. Here's an online version:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSW...pe=marketsNews


What could be possibly be more of an act of terrorism than this?

Add in what Napolitano said on an earlier issue:


And I just don't understand why this administration refuses to acknowledge acts of terrorism (regardless of the race of the terrorist).

It just sounds like he was a really shitty businessman who tried to get cute with taxes.

Last I heard (its been a couple hours since I've caught up on the story, so it may have changed) he owned a plane, explaining why he knew how to fly, and that plane was probably the one he crashed. Initially it looked like he might have stolen a plane different than the one he owned, but last I heard they were under the assumption it was his.

I'm not sure what's sillier, Bush's overuse of the word "terrorism" or the Obama administraition's refusal to use it (except in noting that there was no terrorism when a guy crashes a plane into a federal building)

To be somewhat fair, I think there has always been a school of thought that the actions and the agenda of ONE isolated crazy person isn't terrorism. You could certainly call the unibomber a terrorist and not be wrong in the least, you could call any serial killer that. But more often than not terrorism is used when the movement behind an action can be traced beyond just one person. Given the nature of the rambling crazy in the man's note, I don't think that case can be made.

I'm guessing the White House misspoke. I can't see how it's not an act of terrorism, in that he used violence against innocent people to express his political viewpoint.

However, it's not a current threat to public safety in that there's apparently no group he belonged to that organized this act of terrorism.

Hard to disagree with his manifesto IMO. If he hadn't harmed others (not sure if there is a body count?) then I'd say he is a noble SOB.

This isn't just about being a bad business man or being cute with his taxes. It seems to be more about being overwhelmed and dissillusioned with the state of the "system". In a crazy way, he's trying to wake people up.

Cue both sides of the political spectrum trying to pin this guy on the other side. I've already seen anti-Christian Communist thrown around by the right. I'm sure the left is calling him an anti-government guy.

Reading his manifesto, I'd just say he is anti-everything.

Seriously, why are people constantly trying to score political points in a tragedy? It doesn't really matter what you call it since this is just some random act no one could have prevented regardless of the political viewpoint.

Maybe it's like when you work in a restaurant and they have that sign that says " It has been X days since the last reported accident" except in the whitehouse it says "It has been X number of days since a terrorist attack on US soil" and there is a bonus when they hit a certain number.

I think the word terrorism, as it relates to the U.S. is really focused on the acts of foreigners against our people/government or whatever. Whereas these acts of domestic terrorism are distinguished, simply because they conjure up different images and frankly, would be fought through different methods than the tactics you'd use to fight some terrorist from somewhere around the globe.

Doesn't make it right, but...I think that's the hesitance to call these acts terrorism. I'm finding the whole "maybe dude had a point" commentary of the folks on television to be a bit...ridiculous.

I do, however, think that we'll see more of these kinds of things as people become more and more disillusioned with the system as it is. Because as it stands right now, we're selling a lot of people a bill of goods and it's not until it hits them, that they start to realize how much of our society is built on a house of cards.

Feh. You and your "wisdom". Just whose side are you on, anyways?

:popcorn:

In the immortal words of Chris Rock

"whatever happened to crazy?"

That's what I was trying to spit out. Well said.

As an aside, I wish you'd take the time you spend informing us that the White House doesn't consider this terrorism (and all the wonderful other Health Care insights) and redirect it to a singular post about your game. :)

I mean, can't everything be called terrorism in one way? It's probably being underused by this admin because it's overused by the previous one. I'm sure all the conservatives will lineup at their CPAC or whatever to rail on about this one guy being a major indicator that Obama is soft and use it to scare the rednecks to the ballot boxes. I'm sure the White House will use it to show how much everyone is fed up with Republicans in some manner. If Obama coming out and saying we are never safe from terrorists like this would make you feel better, perhaps you should tweet it to Mr. Gibbs.

You and Bill are pretty tight, eh?

No...that's conspiracy. This is terrorism...plain and simple. If it happened in Iraq/Pakistan/Afghanistan it would most definitely be considered that.

I have no idea what Godwin means but maybe was broadly applying the term false flag to this. I don't think the government created some sort of Manchurian candidate and programmed him to do it to discredit the tea party movement.

I do however think that the government will use this as a warning tale of the craziness that comes with questioning their policies. Like many have said in this thread the actions are ridiculous but what caused the actions are views shared by many. I can easily see some sort of task force or crackdown in place even though there doesn't seem to be anything tangible to crack down on.

It's my birthday, could you at least act like you're working on TCY 2?

I'm working on TCY Junkie 2 if that helps.

I don't recall any proclaimed "terrorist" ever working completely on his/her own and working against/on behalf of both sides of international/domestic arguments.

There is textbook definition and then there is the practical use of a word. McVeigh and company at Ok City had a multi person movement to associate with them and were a multi person attack.

The practical use of terrorism in the media has almost always been associated with a conspiracy of thoughts or actions.

Godwin's Law is the one about ending any online conversation once there's a Hitler reference.

I've barely read the thread so I don't have any idea whether/how it applies here but figured I could at least clear that little bit up.

We just fundamentally disagree on where and why the crazies are being whipped up.

But I've made a promise to myself to stay out of political discussions over the intertubez and so I'll just leave it at that.

Besides, I agree with the thought that not every event needs to be used for politicizing.

I blame the VANOC.

Sort of like the meme about how no one dies on Disney property I guess.

I never heard of it. I implied that the government would immediately take advantage of this situation to heighten security (i.e. more government) and used the term false flag. Apparently path12 thought I was invoking the Reichstag fire or something. Don't think this one will go that far but I have noticed a lot of non-news worthy stories lately that seem to be getting air for some reason that are planting the ideas in my mind of a coming false flag...

Police report security breach at Olympics opening - 2010 Olympics - Yahoo! Sports


(maybe I have become too big of a cynic?)

The world does revolve around the West Coast, we are just too laid back to point it out to the rest of you.

I think it would have been perfectly acceptable to say that this was an act of terrorism by an individual not associated with any known terrorist organization. It's not panicking the masses, but it's also not candy-coating the fact that this person flew a plane into a building to try and make a political point.

It's just difficult to deal with a situation or issue when you refuse to acknowledge it even exists.

Aye.

i.e.

Cobra is a ruthless terrorist organization determined to rule the world.

I get where you are coming from. I don't much enjoy the politicial threads either anymore. I have an opinion and so do other people and I have found nobody really cares about the other side.

I will say to the politicizng this event though... The guy crashed into the IRS building due to government policies, pretty sure that makes it political.

To him, yeah. I don't feel the need to try and interpret much more than that. :)

How would it make any difference whatsoever if Obama said "terrorism"? It's not like he never says it, contrary to right-wing blogs. Would this not have happened if he said terrorism more? Would we be safer tomorrow if he said terrorism today?

There needs to be a roundtable to discuss for what we use the word terrorism. I can see it going both ways. He had no regard for others, and seemed to have an ideological goal behind it. However, this didn't seem like something used to create fear among others and was a lone nut.

Are school shooters terrorists? That teacher who shot a bunch of people because she didn't get tenure the other day? Technically you could classify every drive-by shooting as an act of terrorism as it meets all the criteria. Seems the definition we use today only counts terrorism if it's done by a Muslim.

The definition of terrorism at one time was trying to cause governmental change by creating a state of fear among the populace that causes them to lose faith that the current government can protect them. Under that definition, this is not an act of terrorism, nor is nearly any attack on a government institution. The OKC bombing wasn't terrorism, nor was bombing the USS Cole, but crashing planes into the Twin Towers was, as are the suicide bombers in the Middle East.

I don't know what the current agreed-upon definition is, as that was from when I was most interested in this stuff back in the 80s. I have a vague recollection of flere and I discussing this awhile back in here, but I don't remember what conclusion was reached.

I think an attack made on civilians with the goal of forwarding a political message is an act of terrorism. In a drive by or school shooting (because of not getting tenure), you have individual acts with no real political motive often directed at people they blame for a specific situation in their life.

However, if someone wrote a letter saying that schools are indoctrinating our kids with evil ideas and then goes and shoots up a random school - then I think that most certainly is terrorism.

The only goal of killing innocent civilians as part of a political message is to cause terror in the masses. It doesn't matter if it's done in a government building in Texas or a church in Iraq.

Reading through his diatribe, he kind of reminds me of those anti-tax guys that float around (not that they fly buildings into people, but his beliefs). I'm not talking small government, but those that think income tax is illegal, the Amendment wasn't ratified properly, and so on. I worked with a guy like this. Talked non-stop about how he never paid taxes and about James Traficant. I was young but still kind of knew he was a kook. Would constantly try and recruit people into the office by telling them not to let them take too much out of the check because we didn't have to pay taxes.

Eventually the IRS came knocking on his door and he still stood strong. Went to local meetings with the same kind of people. Was certain he would beat the case and find that income tax was unconstitutional. I know they started garnishing his wages at one point and I left the company before I could find out more that happened to him.

In any event, there are people like that out there. Mostly harmless but get into this belief that the IRS is illegal and that everyone is a sucker for paying taxes. When he talked about meetings in the 80's, it might be something similar to that. He decided not to pay taxes and the IRS fucked him for it.

To quote Merriam Webster herself.

According to the great and all knowing minds of the land of Wiki Pedia

If he didn't want to cause terror in the masses, why fly the plane into the building?

He didn't care who he killed, he just wanted the US to know his political message and hoped a body count (ie, terror) would forward that notion.

I can go with that but it still seems somewhat murky. I mean the KKK would technically not fall into terrorism back in the day when they'd lynch someone or burn a cross on their lawn. Yet they are widely seen as using terroristic methods throughout their time.

And the reason I use the KKK is because I think there is a similarity in that and gang shootings. Often times drive-bys are not about getting revenge on an individual, but about instilling fear in a neighborhood and establishing presence on a particular turf. We don't want Crips on our block can be seen the same way as we don't want blacks on our block.

I just think the term is too loosely defined. When a guy blows up an abortion clinic, he is somewhat sending a political message, but is that any different than one sent by the KKK, a gang, or a school shooter who is speaking out against the "wrongs in society" (in his view).

Here's the difference. Terrorism usually carries some future threat of harm. I'm not really concerned that some nut job in the inland empire is going to get ticked off at the IRS or the SEC and fly a single engine Cessna into my office building. I am, however, a little nervous that a flight from Northern Ireland may be bombed or that an Islamist group may send a suicide bomber into a Tel Aviv shopping mall.

It comes down to organized terrorism vs unorganized terrorism. If it is unorganized terrorism, it isn't worth the effort of worrying about it as terrorism, because a lone crazy person with an agenda of terror is no different than a lone crazy person without such an agenda. You can't do much about crazy. That is why some might be reluctant to call the acts of a lone crazy man without a connection to a concrete philosophical movement terrorism. Now if an act is connected to a bigger movement or agenda, you might need to consider it in bigger picture context. So that is when you break out the big umbrella word of terrorism.

Nice

Has anybody looked into this guy's connection with any Moslem terrorist groups?

I don't remember people clamoring for the guy that flew the Cessna into the White House to be called a terrorist.

I'll give the guy credit, he was a pretty good pilot. The building is close to a big overhead freeway interchange, near a bunch of 100 foot tall light poles, and behind a fifteen foot retaining wall on the edge of the highway. When I drove by it on the way home and took a look, he had to thread the plane through and around a lot of stuff. He was definitely motivated.

Well, after finding out that the house Stack burned down was less than a mile from where we live, I grabbed my camera and took pictures. I'm saddened at what I saw.

First look as I arrived to the scene



Woman walking her dog as she gets approached by reporters



Camera crews



Firetruck in front of the house



Here you can see a bit of the back of the house (where the real damage took place)


Reporters interview a neighbor


Fireman hoses down what's left of the fire


The front


Onlooker takes a picture


Fireman on the rooftop hoses down another angle


Last look before I leave


Onlooker takes a look at the damage as the house is being hosed down


House is less than a block away from an elementary school


Media Vans


Same fireman from a different angle


Fireman hoses down the house


Back of the house is pretty much destroyed


A closer look, my heart sank when I saw this


And the last picture. After this picture I looked and I mean really looked at the house. I put my head down, said a prayer for the wife and child left behind as well as the hundreds that were affected by one person's malicious act and cried. Yeah, I cried. I noticed a police officer getting out of her car and started approaching me. When she saw me crying, she turned around and headed back to her car. I'll never understand how or why some people have so much hatred in their heart.

FOFC News Bureau is all over this one, man.

Thanks for the pics, DC. Seriously.

Need to edit this. It was his wife and step-daughter. Apparently this was his second marriage. Other than that, the rest seems to still hold up.