Front Office Football Central

Front Office Football Central (https://forums.operationsports.com/fofc//index.php)
-   Off Topic (https://forums.operationsports.com/fofc//forumdisplay.php?f=6)
-   -   College Football - Week 11 (https://forums.operationsports.com/fofc//showthread.php?t=79766)

DeToxRox 11-08-2010 06:38 PM

College Football - Week 11
 
Pretty down week of games, though a couple that intrigue me:

San Diego State vs TCU

- SDSU is 7-2 and looking good. Brady Hoke is without question on any Michigan HC short list, though RR is likelier to stay.

South Carolina vs Florida

- Spurrier vs UF is always fun

Alabama vs Miss. State

- Dan Mullen is a rising star as a HC. Bama should win easy but they could letdown after last week.

Greyroofoo 11-08-2010 07:08 PM

You forgot the Toledo Rockets vs N. Illinois, a game that could decide that fate of the MAC West!

Matthean 11-08-2010 08:13 PM

Georgia vs. Auburn.
Penn State vs. Ohio State.
Kansas St. vs. Missouri.
VT vs. UNC.
TA&M vs. Baylor.

Also have potential as good games.

tarcone 11-08-2010 08:50 PM

Iowa is on upset alert. We travel to Northwestern. And without a doubt Coach Fitz will have them ready to beat down the Hawks. Always a tough game for Iowa.

Dr. Sak 11-08-2010 08:55 PM

I dont think Penn State stands a chance against Ohio State in the horseshoe. The Buckeyes will expose the PSU defense and put up at least 35.

tarcone 11-08-2010 08:58 PM

I agree. PsU gets dominated.

CU Tiger 11-08-2010 10:32 PM

For the first time in a decade I will not watch my Tigers play live. (either by TV or in person) as I will be away from a TV all weekend, here is hoping I canlive in a bubble until Sunday night late when I watch the Clemson FSU DVR....

Izulde 11-08-2010 10:57 PM

In a clash of former Izulde schools, Wyoming comes to play at UNLV's Homecoming.

...This might be the only other win the Rebels have a shot at this season.

RomaGoth 11-09-2010 01:17 AM

Looks like Hawk is finally getting canned.

Reports: Embattled Dan Hawkins out as Colorado coach - ESPN

RainMaker 11-09-2010 04:22 AM

Source: Auburn QB Newton left Florida after cheating scandal - CFB News - FOX Sports on MSN

Young Drachma 11-09-2010 10:03 AM

Man who did Cam Newton sleep with? Folks are really trying to crap on his Heisman parade.

Young Drachma 11-09-2010 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomaGoth (Post 2378345)
Looks like Hawk is finally getting canned.

Reports: Embattled Dan Hawkins out as Colorado coach - ESPN


Finally.

Honolulu Blue 11-09-2010 10:43 AM

Something I found interesting in the article linked above about Dan Hawkins' firing:

Quote:

Hawkins is making nearly $1.5 million this season in base salary and incentives, less than every coach in the Big 12 except Iowa State coach Paul Rhoads. His buyout would be around $2 million.

(emphasis mine)

It boggles my mind that a bottom-feeder coach in a big-time conference is making $1.5 mil a year. I guess I'm really behind the times. I'll have to do some research sometime into what other coaches make elsewhere - including the pros (even the UFL, if I can find it).

Sorry for the interruption. Carry on.

RomaGoth 11-09-2010 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu Blue (Post 2378397)
Something I found interesting in the article linked above about Dan Hawkins' firing:



(emphasis mine)

It boggles my mind that a bottom-feeder coach in a big-time conference is making $1.5 mil a year. I guess I'm really behind the times. I'll have to do some research sometime into what other coaches make elsewhere - including the pros (even the UFL, if I can find it).

Sorry for the interruption. Carry on.


That jumped out at me as well, so you aren't the only one. I don't see how most of these guys are worth even a fraction of that high a salary, I guess I am behind the times as well.

panerd 11-09-2010 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu Blue (Post 2378397)
Something I found interesting in the article linked above about Dan Hawkins' firing:



(emphasis mine)

It boggles my mind that a bottom-feeder coach in a big-time conference is making $1.5 mil a year. I guess I'm really behind the times. I'll have to do some research sometime into what other coaches make elsewhere - including the pros (even the UFL, if I can find it).

Sorry for the interruption. Carry on.


I think he was supposed to be the savior from Boise State that was going to turn that program around. I think the 1.5 million was spent to bring a winner not a bottom feeder.

MJ4H 11-09-2010 11:30 AM

Arkansas hosts UTEP this Saturday. What should I expect?

miami_fan 11-09-2010 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud (Post 2378384)
Man who did Cam Newton sleep with? Folks are really trying to crap on his Heisman parade.


It is not who he slept with, it is who he is being compared to. When you starting hearing a QB that left your program (by choice or by force) being compared to Jesus Tebow, you come out with this type of stuff.

JPhillips 11-09-2010 12:03 PM


The system of colleges using public funds to pretend to educate professional athletes is so fucking stupid.

DeToxRox 11-09-2010 12:19 PM

Urban Meyer is sure butthurt about Cam Newton no longer being at Florida. I mean the kid was a fuckup there so they moved on. Seems like he has grown up. Let it be.

I will note if it comes out he accepted money then fine, I agree it needs to be handled, but it is just funny that this is all basically a one man assault from Urban Meyer.

Noop 11-09-2010 12:31 PM

The whole SEC is full of cheaters.

RomaGoth 11-09-2010 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miami_fan (Post 2378444)
It is not who he slept with, it is who he is being compared to. When you starting hearing a QB that left your program (by choice or by force) being compared to Jesus Tebow, you come out with this type of stuff.


I thought it was Tebow Christ.....

RomaGoth 11-09-2010 12:43 PM

It is now official:

Dan Hawkins Fired at Colorado -- NCAAFB FanHouse

JonInMiddleGA 11-09-2010 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu Blue (Post 2378397)
It boggles my mind that a bottom-feeder coach in a big-time conference is making $1.5 mil a year. I guess I'm really behind the times. I'll have to do some research sometime into what other coaches make elsewhere - including the pros (even the UFL, if I can find it).


The D1 average last year was about 1.3 million.
56 of 120 make $1m or more, with 25 at $2m or more

College football coaches see salaries rise in down economy - USATODAY.com

MacroGuru 11-09-2010 01:40 PM

BYU has to win 2 out of 3 to be bowl eligible.

With the next two games @CSU and New Mexico I would normally say it's a lock, but I don't think it will be.

I would like to see them win all 3, but our game against Utah has me pretty scared...especially after the ass raping they took from TCU.

JPhillips 11-09-2010 01:42 PM

But it's okay because Colorado has a balanced athletic budget.



If you include over seven million dollars in student fees and direct institutional support.

molson 11-09-2010 02:01 PM

And it's not like coaching is some unique skill. There's hundreds of guys out there who could probably do as well or better at Colorado.

I guess there's an upper, elite level of coaches worth the money, but it's kind of hard to tell - the guys perceived as that are mostly at elite institutions and have all of the inherent advantages that go with that. It's be pretty hard for anyone to fail at Florida or Texas.

RomaGoth 11-09-2010 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 2378510)
It's be pretty hard for anyone to fail at Florida or Texas.


Ron Zook managed it just fine. ;)

Greyroofoo 11-09-2010 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo (Post 2378121)
You forgot the Toledo Rockets vs N. Illinois, a game that could decide that fate of the MAC West!


Game starting right now!!!

MrBug708 11-09-2010 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomaGoth (Post 2378527)
Ron Zook managed it just fine. ;)


Mackovich did it so much better though

M GO BLUE!!! 11-09-2010 08:35 PM

So with Hawkins having coached his son the last few years, what were the NCAA rules? They do tend to frown on such things from coach to student as gifts. And students really aren't supposed to hang out at the coach's pad either. Did he have to refrain from giving his kid any gifts other than the starting QB job?

RainMaker 11-09-2010 08:53 PM

Not a fan of Doyel at all, but thought this was a good article.

Consider the source on Newton story - NCAA Football - CBSSports.com

DeToxRox 11-09-2010 11:05 PM

Breaking news: Cam Newton and father admitted in phone conversations that money played a part in picking Auburn. Was just on SportsCenter.

Dun dun dunnn

kingfc22 11-10-2010 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 2378701)
Breaking news: Cam Newton and father admitted in phone conversations that money played a part in picking Auburn. Was just on SportsCenter.

Dun dun dunnn


Where there's smoke, there's fire...

BishopMVP 11-10-2010 12:31 AM

Utah @ Notre Dame should at least be interesting. Utah isn't as bad as TCU made them look, at least on defense, thus that 5.5 point spread is probably a little low. But ND does have some talent, and hopefully some pride. While I don't like Utah per se, I do want to see TCU in the title game (assuming Oregon, or more likely Auburn, falters) so against any other team I'd be rooting for them in a blowout. Heck, given this ND team and this season I don't even think it would make me think less of them, but I still can't quite root for them outright.

I don't want to get involved in a huge Cam Newton debate when so much more will come out in the next days/weeks/years, so I'll just say my little piece. I don't think Cam himself ever asked for or received money, but I think it's quite possible that people around him (probably including his father) did. At what point does that make the player ineligible? The second part is that these allegations are not new and in fact have been known to the SEC and the NCAA for close to a year - just as in the Derrick Rose SAT situation, how can you punish a university retroactively for playing a player you yourself cleared and said was eligible at the time? Finally, it really does seem odd that ESPN and the NYT haven't changed their stories about John Bond and Kenny Rogers to reflect the fact that it is 3rd hand info at best. (Bonus points - I absolutely do believe that Urban Meyer is behind most of this - why I don't entirely know - and the scandal is almost worth it just for the material it gives EDSBS and LSUFreek.)

RainMaker 11-10-2010 12:38 AM

I think Utah wins by double digits. It's a real solid Utah team and Notre Dame is without Crist. I've watched a lot of Notre Dame this year for some reason, and they just don't have much enthusiasm. Really thought I'd see more fire from them with Kelly as coach, but they just aren't very good. Sad too since I do think they have good talent at key positions.

JonInMiddleGA 11-10-2010 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 2378701)
Breaking news: Cam Newton and father admitted in phone conversations that money played a part in picking Auburn. Was just on SportsCenter.Dun dun dunnn


Is this different/updated beyond the story from a couple of hours ago that had two sources claiming that those conversations with the Newton's had taken place?

(Referenced here)
ESPN sources: SEC informed of alleged Cam Newton pay-for-play plan in January; has been OK'd to play throughout | al.com

Ksyrup 11-10-2010 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP (Post 2378723)
The second part is that these allegations are not new and in fact have been known to the SEC and the NCAA for close to a year - just as in the Derrick Rose SAT situation, how can you punish a university retroactively for playing a player you yourself cleared and said was eligible at the time?


Who says the NCAA cleared him to play? I'm sure they get all sorts of allegations and can't follow-up on them immediately (look at how the UNC stuff has unfolded). I would think it's up to the school to decide whether there's any substance to the allegations, and the NCAA moves on its investigations at its own pace. The NCAA won't rule someone ineligible until they've got proof, and in this case, it seems quite clear the investigation is just now getting started.

This really seems to boil down to how much investigation Auburn did back then (assuming they were made aware of these statements when MSU reported them - is that the protocol?). I don't give much weight to the fact that the NCAA didn't declare him ineligible before, since they are only now investigating. If they had announced that they had investigated and closed the book on it, that's one thing. Ultimately, nothing (provable) may come out of this, but depending on the extent of Auburn's investigation, they are taking a huge risk of being Reggie Bush/USC all over again.

JonInMiddleGA 11-10-2010 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 2378765)
Who says the NCAA cleared him to play?


He had to be cleared to play at some point, otherwise he wouldn't be on the field. Whether he was cleared to play in relationship to these particular claims is a different matter, although as one local sportswriter in Alabama pointed out this morning, at the very latest both the conference & the NCAA knew about these charges in July at the latest, plenty of time for them to advise Auburn not to dress him for the season opener.

Ksyrup 11-10-2010 09:11 AM

I don't know, I think that just meant no one had a smoking gun that made it more likely than not he'd be ruled ineligible, if substantiated. With the UNC or AJ Green situations, there was more than enough evidence to convince them to have the players sit. Here, if all you have is a couple of statements and no hard evidence, and you haven't started the investigation yet, then you have no basis for advising the school to sit the player. I mean, you can't tell every school they should err on the side of caution based on every allegation that comes in. I don't think they are off the hook yet.

I'd be interested to know whaat Auburn did to investigate this, as they had the ability and motivation to make sure things were above-board before any NCAA investigation commenced. Could they ask for bank account info?

One thing is for certain - whatever comes of this, it has essentially soiled this season for Auburn because unless something dramatic comes out in the next 45 days or so, we won't know the answers to all of these questions until Auburn's already played in whatever bowl they make and the Heisman voting is done. So everything is going to be under the constant question of whether it's all for nothing.

Imagine a scenario where TCU ends 3rd and Oregon and Auburn play for the championship, and then a few months later Newton is declared ineligible. Wow.

Ksyrup 11-10-2010 09:14 AM

Of course, I guess some would consider it to be Auburn's ultimate payback for 2004...

molson 11-10-2010 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 2378781)

Imagine a scenario where TCU ends 3rd and Oregon and Auburn play for the championship, and then a few months later Newton is declared ineligible. Wow.


Aren't we looking at more like 2015 on the NCAA timetable?

I wonder if any of the BCS voters will be influenced though

molson 11-10-2010 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP (Post 2378723)

I don't want to get involved in a huge Cam Newton debate when so much more will come out in the next days/weeks/years, so I'll just say my little piece. I don't think Cam himself ever asked for or received money, but I think it's quite possible that people around him (probably including his father) did. At what point does that make the player ineligible? The second part is that these allegations are not new and in fact have been known to the SEC and the NCAA for close to a year - just as in the Derrick Rose SAT situation, how can you punish a university retroactively for playing a player you yourself cleared and said was eligible at the time? Finally, it really does seem odd that ESPN and the NYT haven't changed their stories about John Bond and Kenny Rogers to reflect the fact that it is 3rd hand info at best. (Bonus points - I absolutely do believe that Urban Meyer is behind most of this - why I don't entirely know - and the scandal is almost worth it just for the material it gives EDSBS and LSUFreek.)


Everybody is technically eligible at the time they play, otherwise they wouldn't play. If the Newton investigation was completed at the time he was "cleared", that might carry some weight, but presumably, they're trying to get to the bottom of things now. Part of that responsibility is the risk involved with recruiting dirty kids. Anyone who brought in Cam Newton this season knew they were taking a huge risk.

And I always roll my eyes at the "kid didn't know" or the "school didn't know" justifications. Whether that's true or not is irrelevant. It's your responsibility to know, otherwise you have this structure not unlike the trainer/athlete relationship in MLB ("I don't need the details, just shoot me up".) Dirty programs are built on keeping kids and head coaches out of the loop. Thats why you have boosters dealing directly with kids and their families, and gifts to parents/high school coaches/others that influence a kids decision.

The whole thing is kind of silly. The SEC in particular, followed by most of the BCS and 1-A as a whole really just needs to turn pro. I really think we're going to look back in these days with amusement, when big-time college football programs felt the need to hide all these financial arrangements, and when everyone was obsessed with pushing the myth that Newton is some kind of student-athlete.

MrBug708 11-10-2010 10:32 AM

Is it illegal to ask for money but eventually take none?

mckerney 11-10-2010 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 2378114)
Pretty down week of games, though a couple that intrigue me:

San Diego State vs TCU

- SDSU is 7-2 and looking good. Brady Hoke is without question on any Michigan HC short list, though RR is likelier to stay.


Yesterday it was reported Hoke was the latest coach contacted by Minnesota this week. No idea where he's supposed to stand on their short list after the top tier of candidates who will turn them down.

Ksyrup 11-10-2010 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 2378797)
Aren't we looking at more like 2015 on the NCAA timetable?

I wonder if any of the BCS voters will be influenced though


I don't know. Depends on what they find and when they find it.

The Bush thing was a post-mortem, and thus they had as much time as they wanted to take because none of it blew up until after he was gone, so there was nothing they could immediately fix or "make right." This is happening real-time, so presumably there would be a bit more urgency to the investigation. Because yeah, I could see a scenario where more and more stuff leaks out about his potentially taking money from Auburn to the point where maybe Auburn gets screwed out of a BCS Bowl game because the voters don't want to put college football in the position of having another illegitimate champion. The Heisman would be the easier issue - who cares? The BCS champion is the much bigger issue (at least IMO).

bronconick 11-10-2010 11:43 AM

Is there another conference that comes even close to the level of bus throwing that SEC schools do to each other? I can't think of any.

Swaggs 11-10-2010 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckerney (Post 2378820)
Yesterday it was reported Hoke was the latest coach contacted by Minnesota this week. No idea where he's supposed to stand on their short list after the top tier of candidates who will turn them down.


I would have thought that Jeff Jagodzinski would be a pretty good candidate for that job, but I haven't heard his name associated with it.

sovereignstar v2 11-10-2010 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 2378830)
I would have thought that Jeff Jagodzinski would be a pretty good candidate for that job, but I haven't heard his name associated with it.


We don't need a guy that will bolt for the NFL after two seasons.

bhlloy 11-10-2010 12:18 PM

The NCAA did a full investigation into OJ Mayo and USC still got hit for those violations. I don't think it's relevant at all whether the NCAA cleared him and when they knew about the violations. If he received any benefits at all, Auburn's season is gone. I don't think asking for benefits is illegal so Auburn needs to hope it stops there.

That being said, I'm becoming less and less convinced that Auburn is clean in this one. I basically see two realistic scenarios - 1) Miss St is making all/most of this up or 2) Auburn paid for Newton. Are we really to believe that he went from a $200,000 asking price with teams allegedly willing to pay, to playing out of the goodness of his heart in a matter of weeks? I don't buy it at all.

RomaGoth 11-10-2010 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy (Post 2378835)
The NCAA did a full investigation into OJ Mayo and USC still got hit for those violations. I don't think it's relevant at all whether the NCAA cleared him and when they knew about the violations. If he received any benefits at all, Auburn's season is gone. I don't think asking for benefits is illegal so Auburn needs to hope it stops there.

That being said, I'm becoming less and less convinced that Auburn is clean in this one. I basically see two realistic scenarios - 1) Miss St is making all/most of this up or 2) Auburn paid for Newton. Are we really to believe that he went from a $200,000 asking price with teams allegedly willing to pay, to playing out of the goodness of his heart in a matter of weeks? I don't buy it at all.


I agree with this, and will add that if we look at his history, character has been an ongoing issue with this guy. He tried to cheat twice with bogus papers in class, obviously he is not this stand up guy that Auburn is trying to portray.

mckerney 11-10-2010 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 2378830)
I would have thought that Jeff Jagodzinski would be a pretty good candidate for that job, but I haven't heard his name associated with it.


His name has come up a few times in the media for the Minnesota job, but after reading that he wasn't interested in the work that for a onto recruiting and wanted out of college coaching when he got himself fired at BC I am hoping he's not a serious candidate.

DeToxRox 11-10-2010 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckerney (Post 2378820)
Yesterday it was reported Hoke was the latest coach contacted by Minnesota this week. No idea where he's supposed to stand on their short list after the top tier of candidates who will turn them down.


Hoke would be an excellent choice. I'd hate to see him in the Big 10.

DeToxRox 11-10-2010 12:37 PM

A Dallas radio station is reporting Cam Newton will be suspended at some point today. No idea how legit the source at the radio station is since it is a Dallas station but it's worth at least acknowledging.

Atocep 11-10-2010 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 2378843)
A Dallas radio station is reporting Cam Newton will be suspended at some point today. No idea how legit the source at the radio station is since it is a Dallas station but it's worth at least acknowledging.


A guy on the Rivals mainboard (consider the source...) said that a Mississippi State booster turned over a recording of a conversation with Newton's dad detailing how the $180k would be paid.

molson 11-10-2010 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 2378843)
A Dallas radio station is reporting Cam Newton will be suspended at some point today. No idea how legit the source at the radio station is since it is a Dallas station but it's worth at least acknowledging.


People are saying Ian Fitzsimmons tweeted this. But he says he didn't. According to many other tweets.

I hate twitter.

DeToxRox 11-10-2010 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 2378845)
A guy on the Rivals mainboard (consider the source...) said that a Mississippi State booster turned over a recording of a conversation with Newton's dad detailing how the $180k would be paid.


Auburn is gonna' be dead if this turns out to be true. The USC case took years to gather evidence, this is coming together in weeks.

DeToxRox 11-10-2010 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 2378846)
People are saying Ian Fitzsimmons tweeted this. But he says he didn't. According to many other tweets.

I hate twitter.


Was just coming to post this.

Twitter is a gift and a curse.

DeToxRox 11-10-2010 12:49 PM

Chizik said Newton will start Saturday.

He's playing a mighty big game of poker now.

RomaGoth 11-10-2010 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 2378847)
Auburn is gonna' be dead if this turns out to be true. The USC case took years to gather evidence, this is coming together in weeks.


At this point I don't see how these allegations could be anything but true. It is one thing to make stuff up and watch it disappear quietly. That is clearly not the case here though.

molson 11-10-2010 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 2378848)
Was just coming to post this.

Twitter is a gift and a curse.


From reading some of this stuff, I absolutely believe that he intentionally posted a fake/misleading story just so hundreds of people would call him, and he'd get to go on the air everywhere to "set the record straight", and so idiots like me would do a search for him within Twitter.

molson 11-10-2010 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 2378849)
Chizik said Newton will start Saturday.

He's playing a mighty big game of poker now.


Makes sense. Future coaching contracts seem to consider wins, vacated or not.

mckerney 11-10-2010 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox (Post 2378842)
Hoke would be an excellent choice. I'd hate to see him in the Big 10.


It wouldn't surprise me if Hoke is near the top of the second tier of candidates Minnesota has that the coach they hire will likely come from. It seems the administration is set on trying to hire a big name by offering $2.5 to $3 million a year to Patterson, Petterson, Harbaugh and Mullen before looking at guys like Hoke, Troy Calhoun, Randy Edsel and Mike Stoops.

Ksyrup 11-10-2010 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomaGoth (Post 2378850)
At this point I don't see how these allegations could be anything but true. It is one thing to make stuff up and watch it disappear quietly. That is clearly not the case here though.


Newton's excuse: "OK so here's what happened. I really thought Mississippi State was the place for me, but my dad was like, 'Son, do you realize you just committed to MISSISSIPPI FUCKING STATE? What the hell? I don't care if Mullen's there or not, it's MISSISSIPPI FUCKING STATE! What have they won, except the Cam Newton sweepstakes?' I realized he was right, but I really felt bad about screwing Coach Mullen over and reneging on a promise so quickly, so pops and I came up with an excuse about me needing money to play, and since they wouldn't pay, I had to de-commit and find another school. And that's how I ended up at Auburn. I didn't get no money, I was just embarrassed at having made such a stupid mistake to being with."

If any of the MSU stuff turns out to be true, that's about the only plausible scenario I can come up with where Newton isn't found to be taking money from Auburn. Either that, or he pulled out of MSU thinking he was going to get paid by Auburn or another team, but it never happened, he got stuck without a team, and chose the best fit for him.

RomaGoth 11-10-2010 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 2378857)
Newton's excuse: "OK so here's what happened. I really thought Mississippi State was the place for me, but my dad was like, 'Son, do you realize you just committed to MISSISSIPPI FUCKING STATE? What the hell? I don't care if Mullen's there or not, it's MISSISSIPPI FUCKING STATE! What have they won, except the Cam Newton sweepstakes?' I realized he was right, but I really felt bad about screwing Coach Mullen over and reneging on a promise so quickly, so pops and I came up with an excuse about me needing money to play, and since they wouldn't pay, I had to de-commit and find another school. And that's how I ended up at Auburn. I didn't get no money, I was just embarrassed at having made such a stupid mistake to being with."

If any of the MSU stuff turns out to be true, that's about the only plausible scenario I can come up with where Newton isn't found to be taking money from Auburn. Either that, or he pulled out of MSU thinking he was going to get paid by Auburn or another team, but it never happened, he got stuck without a team, and chose the best fit for him.


I hope your first scenario is correct, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. Just the implication that getting paid to play at a school, regardless of which one it is, is enough to make me cringe. Add in the academic cheating (twice, allegedly) and the stolen laptop incident, and Newton is looking more and more like another douche athlete.

dawgfan 11-10-2010 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckerney (Post 2378854)
It seems the administration is set on trying to hire a big name by offering $2.5 to $3 million a year to Patterson, Petterson, Harbaugh and Mullen before looking at guys like Hoke, Troy Calhoun, Randy Edsel and Mike Stoops.

I'm becoming convinced that schools float these upper-tier names of coaches just to placate fans, but knowing full well that they have no shot in hell of landing these guys.

Thing is, are there any Minnesota fans that seriously think they'd have a shot at landing guys like Harbaugh, Peterson or Patterson?

BishopMVP 11-10-2010 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 2378765)
Who says the NCAA cleared him to play? I'm sure they get all sorts of allegations and can't follow-up on them immediately (look at how the UNC stuff has unfolded). I would think it's up to the school to decide whether there's any substance to the allegations, and the NCAA moves on its investigations at its own pace. The NCAA won't rule someone ineligible until they've got proof, and in this case, it seems quite clear the investigation is just now getting started.

This situation is less clear cut than the Derrick Rose situation, where the NCAA Clearinghouse completed an investigation, said his SAT was fine and then later punished Memphis because it was allegedly taken by someone else, but clearly there was some sort of investigation/knowledge of the MSU/Newton allegations. In Georgia and UNC's case, the NCAA advised them to sit players before actually completing the punishment, but elected not to do so here (or Auburn blatantly ignored it.)
Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 2378799)
And I always roll my eyes at the "kid didn't know" or the "school didn't know" justifications. Whether that's true or not is irrelevant. It's your responsibility to know, otherwise you have this structure not unlike the trainer/athlete relationship in MLB ("I don't need the details, just shoot me up".) Dirty programs are built on keeping kids and head coaches out of the loop. Thats why you have boosters dealing directly with kids and their families, and gifts to parents/high school coaches/others that influence a kids decision.

Let's posit a hypothetical. Star athlete "Cam N." knows that his father/coach/family friend is asking for money - but it's not for him. He can even come out and explicitly tell coaches he's not interested in extra benefits, but that won't stop random boosters. Is he supposed to turn himself in to the NCAA? Cross all his finalists off the list and pick a random school out of the blue that might not be a good fit for him? Even if he got the money, that almost certainly wasn't the only reason he ended up at Auburn - I mean like KSyrup said, he chose Auburn over MSU here, if anything it would have been more suspicious the other way.

Heck, (other than the Feds stepping in if/when things get out of hand) what's to stop me from telling/intimating to a shady booster from SC, Clemson, Auburn, FSU etc that for $5,000 up front and $50,000 on the back end I can get Jadeveon Clowney to commit to their school of choice? If he goes elsewhere, I can just say that more money beat them out and they can't go public without screwing their school, and if he does go there suddenly I'm the Rainmaker who made it happen and I can blackmail them into giving me the money. All that despite the fact I have never spoken to Clowney, let alone influenced his decision, let alone controlled it.

(I also do hope this blows back on CUM/Florida if proven true. We're expected to believe that his dad wanted $200,000 for him coming out of JC but never asked for anything coming out of high school?)

sovereignstar v2 11-10-2010 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan (Post 2378887)
I'm becoming convinced that schools float these upper-tier names of coaches just to placate fans, but knowing full well that they have no shot in hell of landing these guys.

Thing is, are there any Minnesota fans that seriously think they'd have a shot at landing guys like Harbaugh, Peterson or Patterson?


No. But I do believe you have to at least ask these guys even if there is a 99% chance you get rejected. I think the most likely hire is a Mr. Kevin Sumlin from Houston.

JonInMiddleGA 11-10-2010 02:46 PM

My advice would be not to overlook this little bit of the story

The NCAA requested financial statements from Cam’s dad the Pastor Cecil Newton. They apparently requested bank statements and records from his church. A church that just went through a big overhaul. A church that was set to be demolished. A church where it now up to code even though Cam’s mom said of the church that “we don’t have any money…we have nothing.”

RomaGoth 11-10-2010 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 2378892)
My advice would be not to overlook this little bit of the story

The NCAA requested financial statements from Cam’s dad the Pastor Cecil Newton. They apparently requested bank statements and records from his church. A church that just went through a big overhaul. A church that was set to be demolished. A church where it now up to code even though Cam’s mom said of the church that “we don’t have any money…we have nothing.”


Gotta love how one thing leads to another to another to another.......:)

CU Tiger 11-10-2010 03:17 PM

And it may be protected by federal legislation regarding churches according to some I have heard.

Quick anyone want to start a church of football, we will gladly accept donations for delivery of studly players.

Then we will use our money to bribe Scouts/Rivals et. al. into making our players rank higher so we can demand more.

You know it will work exactly like the MLB farm system.

By the way..200k wont touch Clowney...his dad has a new job and so does his mom. Dad makes ~50k/year as a project manager where he was previously a janitor.

He will announce SC on signing day.

molson 11-10-2010 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP (Post 2378889)
Let's posit a hypothetical. Star athlete "Cam N." knows that his father/coach/family friend is asking for money - but it's not for him. He can even come out and explicitly tell coaches he's not interested in extra benefits, but that won't stop random boosters. Is he supposed to turn himself in to the NCAA?

Cross all his finalists off the list and pick a random school out of the blue that might not be a good fit for him? Even if he got the money, that almost certainly wasn't the only reason he ended up at Auburn - I mean like KSyrup said, he chose Auburn over MSU here, if anything it would have been more suspicious the other way.

Heck, (other than the Feds stepping in if/when things get out of hand) what's to stop me from telling/intimating to a shady booster from SC, Clemson, Auburn, FSU etc that for $5,000 up front and $50,000 on the back end I can get Jadeveon Clowney to commit to their school of choice? If he goes elsewhere, I can just say that more money beat them out and they can't go public without screwing their school, and if he does go there suddenly I'm the Rainmaker who made it happen and I can blackmail them into giving me the money. All that despite the fact I have never spoken to Clowney, let alone influenced his decision, let alone controlled it.

(I also do hope this blows back on CUM/Florida if proven true. We're expected to believe that his dad wanted $200,000 for him coming out of JC but never asked for anything coming out of high school?)


If the family gets money from a school without the kid's knowledge, and then pushes the kid towards the school, the kid is inelligible. (Or he should be - I haven't memorized the NCAA rules to see if there's loopholes where a school can payoff the kid's decision-makers). That's not necessarily "fair", but the family screwed the kid over for cash. Wouldn't be the first time a family ruined a kid's life/career/opportunities.

Someone else starting rumors about a kid's family looking for money wouldn't make a kid inelligible. In the hypothetical you describe, you can certainly get eyebrows to raise pretty easily, if you're credible. If it's another school, or a booster of another school making those false claims, I would hope that's a serious violation in it's own right.

Of course, the NCAA has no ability to get down to the truth of any of these complex business relationships, so what you really have is just a business where everyone's playing by different rules.

mckerney 11-10-2010 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2 (Post 2378890)
No. But I do believe you have to at least ask these guys even if there is a 99% chance you get rejected. I think the most likely hire is a Mr. Kevin Sumlin from Houston.


I agree with this. I expect they'll say no, but as long as you're willing to offer a competitive salary you may as well make them say no. Sumlin certainly wouldn't surprise me as the hire either.

Also, I'm not really sure floating those names as targets helps Minnesota's AD. There's a lot of anger in the fan base at Joel Maturi for his handling of the football and hockey programs in recent years, saying he intends to hire a big name and then getting someone who doesn't excited could work out poorly in the short term.

molson 11-10-2010 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CU Tiger (Post 2378908)
And it may be protected by federal legislation regarding churches according to some I have heard.

Quick anyone want to start a church of football, we will gladly accept donations for delivery of studly players.

Then we will use our money to bribe Scouts/Rivals et. al. into making our players rank higher so we can demand more.

You know it will work exactly like the MLB farm system.

By the way..200k wont touch Clowney...his dad has a new job and so does his mom. Dad makes ~50k/year as a project manager where he was previously a janitor.

He will announce SC on signing day.


I think Notre Dame prep in my hometown of Fitchburg, MA already uses this business plan for basketball.

Notre Dame Prep of Fitchburg, MA

I'm sure they'll take your religious donations. Just put somewhere on the check what your favorite Div-I school is (they've placed dozens of kids in div. 1 basketball programs all over the country.) There's about 30 students at the school. All but a few are on the basketball team.

Young Drachma 11-10-2010 03:50 PM

Newton will be in the NFL before the hammer drops. But that's a lot of smoke out there.

jbergey22 11-10-2010 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan (Post 2378887)
I'm becoming convinced that schools float these upper-tier names of coaches just to placate fans, but knowing full well that they have no shot in hell of landing these guys.

Thing is, are there any Minnesota fans that seriously think they'd have a shot at landing guys like Harbaugh, Peterson or Patterson?


Well they some how land Tubby Smith for the basketball program and their football program has a great history and a new stadium which the hoops team didnt have. They have the pieces in place to land a bigtime coach.

There is simply no excuse for the Minnesota football program to have been down for the past 50 years. The early ages of college football were dominated by the Golden Gophers.

dawgfan 11-10-2010 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22 (Post 2378940)
There is simply no excuse for the Minnesota football program to have been down for the past 50 years. The early ages of college football were dominated by the Golden Gophers.

Early era, sure. But post WW2, they had, what, a couple good seasons in 1960 and '61, when they won a (questionable) National Championship?

Does Minnesota produce enough D-1 talent to rival Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania or Wisconsin? Because if not, why exactly would they be expected to be a college football power?

I'm not trying to be a dick with this line of questioning, just generally curious. With Washington, there's enough D-1 talent that the UW can build off the homegrown guys and poach enough talent out of California and Hawai'i to round out the roster and produce a strong team (when they have good coaches in place of course).

I'm curious what the route would be for Minnesota to turn into an annual bowl team (besides good coaching) - where would the talent come from?

jbergey22 11-10-2010 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan (Post 2378947)
Early era, sure. But post WW2, they had, what, a couple good seasons in 1960 and '61, when they won a (questionable) National Championship?

Does Minnesota produce enough D-1 talent to rival Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania or Wisconsin? Because if not, why exactly would they be expected to be a college football power?

I'm not trying to be a dick with this line of questioning, just generally curious. With Washington, there's enough D-1 talent that the UW can build off the homegrown guys and poach enough talent out of California and Hawai'i to round out the roster and produce a strong team (when they have good coaches in place of course).

I'm curious what the route would be for Minnesota to turn into an annual bowl team (besides good coaching) - where would the talent come from?


The homegrown talent in Minnesota isnt great by any means but what talent is in state needs to stay here. (Michael Floyd, Seantrel Henerson are a couple of big names recently from Minnesota that got away)

As it is right now Iowa, Wisconsin, and Notre Dame are coming into Minnesota and taking their better players to their programs. Minnesota only has 1 D1 program so while the talent isnt great they also arent splitting it up among 3-10 schools like Cali, Florida, and Texas.

I certainly think they can match the success that Iowa has had lately with a coach that knows what he is doing.

As for Wisconsin. The states are very similar in size and they play pretty much the same type of schedule. Wisconsin and Minnesota produce very similiar talent IMO. The difference is the Wisconsin coaching staff can make their players better. Brewsters recruited 2 top 40 classes 3-4 years ago back to back. Unfortunately the coaching staff did very little to make these players better.

dawgfan 11-10-2010 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckerney (Post 2378917)
IAlso, I'm not really sure floating those names as targets helps Minnesota's AD. There's a lot of anger in the fan base at Joel Maturi for his handling of the football and hockey programs in recent years, saying he intends to hire a big name and then getting someone who doesn't excited could work out poorly in the short term.

Sure, but isn't it better to say you went after a guy like Harbaugh or Peterson and got rejected than to not have tried in the first place?

mckerney 11-10-2010 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan (Post 2378956)
Sure, but isn't it better to say you went after a guy like Harbaugh or Peterson and got rejected than to not have tried in the first place?


I agree that it's best to go after them, but knowing the Minnesota fan base there's a decent chance they won't be happy with the hire if it isn't a known name. A lot of the fans wanted to see Maturi fired before Brewster so he wouldn't take part in the hiring of the next coach, so there's not a lot of trust in his decision making. Some fans have already taken issue with their interpretation of what Maturi meant saying it would be, "a Tubby Smith hire," and demand the next coach is a Harbaugh level hire. If its someone like Hoke I could see a decent part of the fan base be either angry or apathetic.

I definitely think its best to aim for the top on the hire, I'm just not sure it helps with PR and the fanbase if they state they're going after Peterson and Harbaugh if they can't end up landing them.

sovereignstar v2 11-10-2010 05:57 PM

Here's the quote:

Quote:

I've asked Tubby Smith if he wanted to coach football, but he's declined, but we're out here to find a Tubby Smith. We're out here to find somebody that people can recognize, people have confidence in, and people are going to bring instant credibility and notoriety to the football program.
That is my goal. Whether there is that interest remains to be seen, but I'm excited about the time line that we have.

In Maturi's defense (and trust me, I don't like defending him), he's just saying that he'd love to make another Tubby-like hire if he can. That's really all I get from that. I'm confident they really want to make the right hire this time around (see the $2.5M figure that's floating around). If they fuck up again, there is going to be significant backlash and any momentum the program had going for it with the new stadium will be gone in just a few years. The reality is that in the end it almost solely depends on who is interested.

mckerney 11-10-2010 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar v2 (Post 2378981)
Here's the quote:



In Maturi's defense (and trust me, I don't like defending him), he's just saying that he'd love to make another Tubby-like hire if he can. That's really all I get from that. I'm confident they really want to make the right hire this time around (see the $2.5M figure that's floating around). If they fuck up again, there is going to be significant backlash and any momentum the program had going for it with the new stadium will be gone in just a few years. The reality is that in the end it almost solely depends on who is interested.


I don't have an issue with the Tubby Smith hire comment myself, but I've seen some Gopher fans comment on it to say that if Maturi doesn't hire someone like Harbaugh he has lied to the fans. It's not that I have a problem with what he said, but I can see some fans using it to rip a hire like Brady Hoke or Kevin Sumlin and could see casual fans remaining apathetic if the hire isn't someone with name recognition. I'd obviously love it if they could get one of the top big name candidates, but I don't think the hire needs to be a big name coach. A coach who has had success at smaller schools could be a very good hire along with some top coordinators, though I think it is best that the new coach has head coaching experience. My main point was that I'm not sure Maturi or Bruininks have anything to gain by saying they're going after some of the top available coaches if they can't land one.

dawgfan 11-10-2010 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckerney (Post 2378971)
I agree that it's best to go after them, but knowing the Minnesota fan base there's a decent chance they won't be happy with the hire if it isn't a known name. A lot of the fans wanted to see Maturi fired before Brewster so he wouldn't take part in the hiring of the next coach, so there's not a lot of trust in his decision making. Some fans have already taken issue with their interpretation of what Maturi meant saying it would be, "a Tubby Smith hire," and demand the next coach is a Harbaugh level hire. If its someone like Hoke I could see a decent part of the fan base be either angry or apathetic.

I definitely think its best to aim for the top on the hire, I'm just not sure it helps with PR and the fanbase if they state they're going after Peterson and Harbaugh if they can't end up landing them.

Ah, OK, I get it now.

Sounds like there are some Gopher fans that need a reality check - I just don't see any way they land someone like a Harbaugh, Peterson or Patterson. Now, a guy like Kevin Sumlin or Brady Hoke - that seems more realistic, and really, those would be solid hires IMO.

mckerney 11-10-2010 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan (Post 2379025)
Ah, OK, I get it now.

Sounds like there are some Gopher fans that need a reality check - I just don't see any way they land someone like a Harbaugh, Peterson or Patterson. Now, a guy like Kevin Sumlin or Brady Hoke - that seems more realistic, and really, those would be solid hires IMO.


A reality check is part of it, dealing with the disappointments of the last 50 years, and especially the last 5-6 are another part of it. A big name coach will get a lot of the casual fans excited, someone like Hoke a lot of them will scoff at his 38-46 or Houstons record this season under Sumlin, some will mock the idea that they were hired after looking at big names. I agree that both would be good hires and people will be onboard if they're winning in a couple years, but either could be a tough sell in the short term as relative unknowns at the BCS level. Especially after the last 4 years.

JonInMiddleGA 11-11-2010 05:21 PM

Former MSU player implicated by Bond says Newton's dad set the price
Kenny Rogers: Cecil Newton put price tag on Cam Newton for Mississippi State - ESPN

Ksyrup 11-12-2010 04:38 PM

So should we read anything into the fact that Auburn now has "no comment" about Newton's status for tomorrow's game, after Chizik stated so confidently the other day that he was starting? Or do we think that was just a general no comment about anything dealing with Newton? I guess we'll know in about 23 hours.

GrantDawg 11-12-2010 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup (Post 2380029)
So should we read anything into the fact that Auburn now has "no comment" about Newton's status for tomorrow's game, after Chizik stated so confidently the other day that he was starting? Or do we think that was just a general no comment about anything dealing with Newton? I guess we'll know in about 23 hours.



IDK. I just hate all this stuff. We could end up missing out on one of the most spectacular seasons for college player ever. Whether his dad "sold" him or not, it is his actual play that put him on the top. It would be heart-breaking for it to end because of this crap.

Lathum 11-12-2010 09:00 PM

Idahos football field looks like a practice bubble.

Lathum 11-12-2010 09:07 PM

Thats one way to keep Boises offense off the field

RomaGoth 11-12-2010 10:56 PM

BSU took their foot off the pedal in that second quarter, well, except for the last 1 1/2 minutes....

Balldog 11-12-2010 11:52 PM

Pryor comes out and says he is coming back for his senior season, which is a no brainer.

This is the part that annoys me:
Quote:

"I'm a Buckeye until I break all the records," he said during preparations for the eighth-ranked Buckeyes' showdown on Saturday at Ohio Stadium against Penn State.

Lets not come back to win a National Championship or win a Big Ten Championship outright, lets come back so you can set all the records. He's still all about himself.

Matthean 11-13-2010 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 2380030)
IDK. I just hate all this stuff. We could end up missing out on one of the most spectacular seasons for college player ever. Whether his dad "sold" him or not, it is his actual play that put him on the top. It would be heart-breaking for it to end because of this crap.


Or he isn't found to be guilty until after the bowl games happen, Auburn gets hit, and somebody like TCU is on the outside looking in from playing in the title game.

Mizzou B-ball fan 11-13-2010 09:18 AM

Yahoo Sports reporter is saying on Twitter that NCAA has told Auburn that there are possible eligibility issues with Cam Newton and that they could run risk of forfeit if they play him.


http://twitter.com/YahooSportsNFL/st...4245544415233#

GrantDawg 11-13-2010 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthean (Post 2380182)
Or he isn't found to be guilty until after the bowl games happen, Auburn gets hit, and somebody like TCU is on the outside looking in from playing in the title game.


Or he isn't found guilty at all, but he is sat because he might be and we lose a very special season to allegations.

DeToxRox 11-13-2010 12:13 PM

Michigan D just scored a TD. I assume a patch will be out to fix the issue at halftime.

DeToxRox 11-13-2010 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balldog (Post 2380135)
Pryor comes out and says he is coming back for his senior season, which is a no brainer.

This is the part that annoys me:


Lets not come back to win a National Championship or win a Big Ten Championship outright, lets come back so you can set all the records. He's still all about himself.


You know everybody murders people, but not everyone breaks records.

Matthean 11-13-2010 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg (Post 2380206)
Or he isn't found guilty at all, but he is sat because he might be and we lose a very special season to allegations.


I think if you are Auburn you don't sit him at this point unless you know there is wrong going on. If they are going to get nailed, him playing today isn't going to change much in the grand scheme of things. They are screwed anyway. For me, there's just way too much smoke for there not to be fire at this point. Sure, he could be clean and this is a big misunderstanding, but the odds are this isn't simply going away. Somebody did something wrong. It's just a matter of who and how much.

GrantDawg 11-13-2010 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthean (Post 2380213)
I think if you are Auburn you don't sit him at this point unless you know there is wrong going on. If they are going to get nailed, him playing today isn't going to change much in the grand scheme of things. They are screwed anyway. For me, there's just way too much smoke for there not to be fire at this point. Sure, he could be clean and this is a big misunderstanding, but the odds are this isn't simply going away. Somebody did something wrong. It's just a matter of who and how much.



I agree. It makes no sense to sit him now, regardless of rumours. I have no doubt something happened, but the question is was he involved.

JonInMiddleGA 11-13-2010 01:43 PM

I bet Matt Simms wishes he had played against Memphis & Ole Miss instead of Alabama & LSU.

mauchow 11-13-2010 01:46 PM

Badgers up big at halftime against Indiana, 38-10. It was 31-10 when Chappell came out with an injury; so it was not due to Chappell injury that the Badgers are routing the Hoosiers. Iowa losing against Northwestern at halftime, which of course was expected by Big 10 country as NW always gives Iowa fits... I'm sure lady-luck will be on Iowa's side again though come the end of the game.

JonInMiddleGA 11-13-2010 02:38 PM

I bet the Tennessee defense wishes they had seen Jeremy Masoli more than once this year too ;)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Front Office Football Central Database Error
Database Error Database error
The Front Office Football Central database has encountered a problem.

Please try the following:
The forumsold.operationsports.com forum technical staff have been notified of the error, though you may contact them if the problem persists.
 
We apologise for any inconvenience.