Christ guys. I told you he was the hunter.

Crap

And the world is mine!!!

I'm going to go on record a saying I don't like cunnings and to a lesser degree hidden roles :D.

Seriously though, first game I've played with them. Seems like a total crapshoot? Is it ever anything but? I still think Eagle was the right choice with the information at hand and literally ignored everything Hoops said simply because I thought it was irrelevant info.

Wow.

Screw you Danny!!! :D.

Dr. Jonathan Osterman (Doctor Manhattan) - You are the Duke, and may once per game change the outcome of the vote. You cannot be nightkilled or lynched, but once you are revealed (either by being scanned, targeted for a NK, or revealing yourself), there will be a mechanism by which the wolves can kill you that you will not know. If you are targeted for a NK, you will remain alive and be revealed in the thread. If you are scanned by a wolf, you will be aware of it, but not learn who the wolf is, and will not be forcibly revealed in the thread.

Hidden powers:

May once during the course of the game instantly kill a player. Can only use this power if you still have the Duke ability, and cannot use it until at least day 3. Use of this power forfeits the duke ability, and reveals you in the thread if you have not been revealed prior.

If the comedian is killed, may act as bodyguard in his stead, but only every other night, and cannot protect yourself. If you are protecting either of the Silk Spectres (should they be in the game) and they are attacked, you will kill the attacker.

But seriously. It does seem with a cunning the game is absolutely 100% about luck.

Danny is Adrian Veidt (Ozymandias)

You organized this rendezvous and are controlling things behind the scenes with your partners in crime. You are the cunning wolf, and if scanned by Rorschach you will appear to be good. Since Mothman is not in the game, you are brutal as well as cunning.

Hidden Powers:

May once during the game choose one of the wolves' votes (any of you) to count as three votes. Order must be submitted by night deadline.

May once during the game choose to nullify a Duking at a night deadline. This order must be submitted by the deadline, so it will be merely a guess at whether or not Manhattan will use the power that night. If successful, Manhattan may or may not be able to Duke again later.

This game could have gone either way Jackal. so the balance seems ok. If PF had used his instant kill that definitely could have changed things. Dr. Manhattan was pretty damn powerful as it turns out.

From the outside (since you guys killed me as soon as possible), it seemed balanced. The village had a chance here, they just barked up the wrong tree. Not that I would have been better. Danny deserves major props for somehow evading any attention at all. Despite being Danny. Come on guys.

:(

Good game wolves.

I was afraid that Danny was just being an UTR wolf but it seemed that hoops kept coming back at me.

It's not, voting records are actually great things to look at. If I hadn't voted Saldana day 2, I think I was the easy choice as the cunning based on vote records. I took the risk on that day to help myself down the line and it payed off but it was also very risky as Saldana was almost lynched.

And also, though the cultist was in the game, he didn't know who the wolves were prior to the game starting, so he's not all that effective unless he figured it out by the end.

I'll post the ways to kill Dr. Manhattan here next.

Well I mean that's the thing. I'm sure I'm just noob talking :D. But seer lasts til the end and clears 3 villagers. Leading to a 33% guess. Voting records are pretty worthless until the game gets tight. You have to straight up purposely play a bad game or just get unlucky.

If Janey Slater is still alive when Dr. Manhattan is revealed, she can execute a day kill upon him, if the wolves sacrifice the previous night kill.

If Janey Slater is not alive when Manhattan is revealed, the wolves can sacrifice a night kill to have Manhattan killed during the day, two day phases after the sacrificed kill.

If Manhattan is left in an even ratio situation between the villagers and wolves, the wolves will win, as he will grow agitated with humanity and leave Earth.

The cunning is always tough to nail down, but you have to look at it like no one has been scanned, and judge people on their votes and their posts. That's what you usually have to do anyways, its rare the seer makes it to the end of the game and that so many people can role reveal.

I royally screwed up by not voting Saldana when I should have. I was also going to not protect myself N1 and hope I didn't go down but I didn't do it. Had I then n@ I would have fought off the attack.

I know. But you did vote Saldana day 2 and I think that's an easy chance to take. That's my point :).

I'd say when there is a cunning in a game it devalues the seer a bit, which in turn devalues the wolf seer. Seems pretty obvious to me as a wolf to cast a vote or 2 on the wolf seer(assuming you don't have a vanilla).

Well part of the thing is, cunning is useless unless they get scanned. I know I've been cunning a number of times, and usually I end up shooting myself in the foot trying to get myself scanned, and getting lynched instead. The power is useless unless you can get scanned, but trying to get yourself scanned almost always backfires. So it depends a lot who gets it.

And I think Danny is right, voting records and talking in thread is the best way to find wolves. The seer can get killed, and does most games without being much help. The cunning can't hide from these other tools.

It was incredibly lucky in this game the seer lasted this long. Most of the time they would have been killed first night, and you guys would have had to find three wolves by yourself anyway, cunning or not.

I don't like games with 2 wolves and 1 cunning, 3 wolves and 1 cunning still makes the seer a valuable role. 4 or more wolves obviously gives the seer tremendous value even with a cunning.

And the wolves knowing which roles were not in the game didn't help us much as both roles were not ones we could use as a fake reveal. If only helped in that the village wasn't sure if claimed roles were real.

I seriously screwed up in this game. I was scanning things too quickly.

My first vote jump is when I thought there was a sudden run on me but it ended up being hoops just posting the same thing a couple times.

I totally misread the CR reveal as well. When I clicked on the thread I saw last posted as DT. It seems that between that point and it loading the actua thread is when CR hit submit. I read the reveal and my mind was still thinking DT. I was completely floored trying to figure out why DT revealed when he wasn't in trouble (at that time). Then I saw the votes start to shift to me and I voted CR (and somewhere in there did my reveal) still not seeing how I screwed up.

At that point I figured I would just play it in the open as if I even tried to explain that time period it would just sound like a wolf trying to cover his tracks after messing up.

Oh well, such is life in werewolf.

This is definitely how I played the role. I figured me being me would give me enough of a chance of being scanned, so I made sure not to play as if I wanted to be scanned.

Interesting is we had CR pegged as the seer before he revealed. I voted him to try and out him as after he posted his trust list I figured he scanned me and wanted him to come out with that info. It ended up backfiring as PF took over BG powers and was able to protect him. He probably doesn't protect him if CR doesn't have to reveal/

Yeah, I have to say I thought that was a pretty obvious play by Chief Rum. It worked out obviously, but I was surprised to see him hint so clearly that quickly.

:(

And that was the problem. You made some mistakes EF that implicated you with me. But on the flipside the reason Hoops and Danny didn't is more because they didn't post as much as you.

I really wanted to vote every day for the guys that didn't post. Just clear them out and remove that doubt. I may do that in the future. I wasn't upset or anything, people have lives, but I can't get a read on them one way or the other.

Hoops posting a bunch of numbers? Doesn't mean much when it comes to implying guilt or innocence.

Hoops and I play a different style than EF usually. We didn't post that much less.

Also, if you had killed me rather than Saldana, we couldn't have killed Manhattan as quickly (would have had to wait the two days). Assuming I was the brutal ended up being pretty big misstep.

Is this how they one? I'm confused. And sorry for not showing up today guys, it was the first day of school. Totally threw me off

No, we day removed Dr. Manhattan from the game. That part of his role never came into play.

The problem is that I think that I have backed myself into somewhat of a corner. Posting a lot can lead to problems if I don't post a lot in a game. I like trying to draw people out into posting. The more people post the more of a chance there is that they may say something they shouldn't have and outright contradict themselves. Plus I think that it makes the games more fun than a quiet thread.

Yeah, well clearly there's really not a chance in hell that could have been foreseen. Worst case from our point of view is you are not a Brutal and it doesn't matter who gets lynched.

I was reading for entertainment, but I definitely felt like Danny was unusually quiet. I would have been poking at him more if I was in game. EF did come across as fishy, but that happens with some villager in every game. I was surprised to see his reveal was real, coming after all those other reveals it did seem fake.

Hoops, it's funny you mentioned that earlier game with EF making a late role claim that seemed fishy. I was thinking about that same game as I read along and that was the only thing that gave me pause about him as wolf. Well played Danny. I was surprised Jeff gave out accurate info about which lover was which, that seemed to give the wolves a freebie.

Oh, and Lathum beat me to the day one vote. I was going to vote Danny since he checked in as a wolf the previous day. Who knew it would have been the best thing to do on day one.

Yeah, Jeff, I would have held that info for a bit longer, and definitely not tell which lover was which when you revealed. The wolves would have been in a tougher spot that way.

I'd like to note I voted a wolf day one.

Jackal, I think this was a great game, even just to watch. Nice work on all the roles.

I'm usually not the top poster the first couple days, but I was definitely a little quieter than usual post day 3. But with where the village was going I felt I just had to contribute enough to not draw any suspicion, but not so much to try and influence the decisions.

Well it wasn't accurate, I lied and switched them. Figured I'd monitor the vote and only reveal if needed. But I thought of a potential duking after the fact and that scared me.

I named Darth and I because 4 were under the microscope with the thinking that 2 were wolves(they were). So I could pretty much name 2 wolves, but only if I cleared 2 people.

hah, I knew I was going to end up a wolf after posting that lol

We had already scanned you and know DV was the one to kill.

Yeah, the second J23 mentioned that we should vote on Darth and not me I kind of figured :).

Thanks, Autumn. I would have liked to put some more flavor into my deadline posts but I was often out of time to do such. Oh well, next time!

I think that I was the seer that game if I remember correctly. I didn't want to some out so soon in he game about that so I tried to chose a role that (of all the roles on the list) I would have bet money on that it wasn't in the game.

I should have stayed with my first reaction to hoope (later in the day one day one) when I said that your vote on me was making me trust him more than others at that time. Bu then he would defend me and then an hour late vote for me (did that a couple times) so I thought that he was a wolf who didn't want my role left in the game. It just kept working out that they had other important targets to go after at that point and couldn't remove me from the pool of possible cunnings.

If it wasn't for the fact that there was absolutely no way that jeff was a wolf today I would have assumed that he was one with how hard he was coming after me.

Yeah, there were just zero reason to look elsewhere.

Thanks for running the game Jackal. It was fun.


Oh, and...

Let's Go Flyers!!!

:)

I noticed that a bit too. If this hadn't ended the game, I was going to use Hoops wishy washy support but still voting for you as him knowing he needed two more lynches to win and not wanting to overly commit in his posts.

Yes, great game Jackal! I think everyone had a lot of fun.

Agreed. Actually watched the Watchmen movie for the first time during this game. I liked it. But I came away that you really need to have read the comic first. Not sure if I would have enjoyed it anywhere near as much otherwise.

Yeah, thanks for running the game Jackal!


PS. Did I mention that Liverpool won last Sunday?

Today was fun for me because PF had been hinting he was going to use his power (shame he never showed up, hope everything is okay with him). The wolves on the other hand could have killed him at any point today, but had said they were going to wait until the deadline to cause confusion (and didn't know EF was going to be the runaway lynch target.

If PF had killed J to make things easier, it likely would've ended up being a fun hoops vs danny showdown, plus J would not have been able to kill him tonight, and they would've had to wait until tomorrow. But there's no telling who PF would have used the power on, and he had no idea how the wolves could kill him.

Yeah, I was worried that it would somehow end with us boxed in by not going for the sure wolf. But I didn't want to post some of the thoughts for concern that they might help the wolves with strategy.

I also hate when roles end up in people who don't use them - both as the moderator creating the games and a person who tries to help his team win. There were multiple times I got into "PF, you should do with this" mode because I was concerned that stuff was going to slide. And then we still see it happen.

EF, I really was trying to work through scenarios where you were a good guy. But you moaning about me attacking you, and manipulating things, while ignoring Danny did not help the cause. As Jeff pointed out, I was the only one trying to come up with cases to move votes away from you.

Next time, I'm going to take the sure thing wolf without getting cute. Then we would have had another day to play and potentially get things right. Not saying we would have, given the complete lack of trust between me + EF this game, but ending like this is frustrating.

Danny, please don't make the quiet wolf your MO going forward. We don't need another person that hides from posting in these games :mad: I mean that in a kidding way towards Danny, but in a serious way towards overall game play. This isn't as much fun when people don't post. It might be more civil, but it is boring.

Jeff, on a related note it was fun having you around participating in the conversation over the past few days.

First off thanks Jackal for running the game. You mentioned the lack of flavor already-that kind of took away some of the fun for me since I'm a big theme/flavor lover in these games. Good use of tying our powers/victory conditions, etc into the Watchmen characters though.

Second, aaaargh good guys, I understood the reasoning behind the final vote with the brutal and all, but it was a guess if he was the brutal or not, so you might as well have gone with that guess that at least would have gotten you a wolf. Instead you went with the guess of which one of the three was the cunning.

Third congrats to the wolves! So now I must ask the obligatory question-why was I the choice for your first night kill? Not angry or anything just curious. I tried to with my post where I mentioned the cultist conversion possibility to make it seem like I might be the cultist trying to signal you, but that obviously didn't work. :) But luckily for you Danny you took out the right target for one reason-I scanned EagleFan. I didn't know if I was the real seer or not, but would have played as if I was so he would have come back good. I felt like there was a good chance one of the people up for the lynch on day 1 was a wolf, and with EF eliminated, that left you and hoops who had some votes earlier in the day. I would have pushed to put you back up on day 2. Who knows how that would have turned out, probably with me getting lynched instead given my luck in these games, lol.

yes yes Hoops about Jeff-after I voted for a guy on day 1 who hadn't played in a couple years-I'm glad you got the chance to fully participate in the game. :)

there was no reason Thomkal...we just pulled you out of the hat.

Thanks Jackal for the game, great job by danny and j23..i thought we were a solid team from the get go.

We got lucky with the scan of Lathum on night one and got jeff on night 2, and then pegged Chief as the seer first thing in the morning on day 3

CR, as soon as you posted your list, since i already got the BG and one of the lovers, i decided i was gonna push your buttons all day and try to make you reveal, since i felt expendable at that point...there is no way anyone that has played as many games as you have puts Danny and Hoops at the top of a trust list on Day 3 unless you scanned them...that was a dead give away, so i was just gonna argue with you and try to get votes on you, even if it killed me (which it eventually did, but not before you had to out yourself)

Jackal, great game, lots of fun..my only comment was that there were too many roled players, which made it easy for us to get singled out, especially since the only fake reveals we could have made would have been able to be validated. The only role that could have been bluffed was EF's since the game had to end to find out if he was telling the truth.

also, i have to apologize to Lathum...i honestly felt like shit when you saved me Wednesday night...i swear to god, that was the only night last week that i had my kids, and there is no way i would lie about that, but i know the only reason you saved me was because of that..which wasnt really fair..i didnt post that to try to get you to jump off me...it never occurred to me that you would change.

Get a new hat please the next time you play, thank you very much. :) I guess I was too clever for my own good with my post since it didn't make you think I might be the cultist.

Yeah, I probably should have had 1-2 more vanilla roles, but I just wanted to use as many of the roles I made as possible. Hopefully we experience a renaissance and get some bigger games going here in the future.

Ah nuts!!!

I am really sorry to the rest of the village. I was off yesterday (basking in the glory of a Super Bowl Championship!) and totally forgot to check-in to the game. As Jackal had said, I had asked a lot of questions about the instakill power and had fully intended on using it. At this point I can't say who I would have used it on, but I probably would have been leaning towards J23. It definitely would have helped us get closer.

Either way, very fun game, Jackal. Always fun to have such an important role - even if I did F it up in the end :-/

Yep, it is hard to be mad at someone for not being around the PC a day after their team wins the Super Bowl. Just not ideal for this particular day in this particular game.

(Sigh) We really were Andy Reid inside the two minute warning.

woohoo! way to go wolves.

Barfy game for us villagers.