I think, from your quote, you're implying I'm Nosta? Read the post below from EF. EF is the bodyguard and has to be dead soon or later for the wolves to win. Unless I'm reading the role wrong, but I don't think I am.

I guess that was the "obvious" thing? I would be pleased to hear your "less obvious" thing.

Not quite. The obvious thing is that you have more information than the rest of us in regards to Nosta's power. You outright said that scum have an additional kill to use on EF, but Jackal's description of Nosta's role doesn't go into detail on how that works (it could just be that the normal night kill can't be blocked by the other bodyguard or some other variation).

The less obvious thing was your town. New townies don't take someone attempting to lynch them that well, especially to the point of using a smiley face. It comes off as contrived.

Not fun to wind up font's target du jour. At least my "appointment" tonight saves me from drawn out back-and-forth.

You've got three hours. You can't address my concerns in that time?

Fair warning though, I won't be lynched toDay, and if you're not around when the wagon swings off of me it could be problematic for you.

I thought the same thing when he posted until I checked out the rules, and I don't interpret it the way you do. While it doesn't out and out say that there is a separate kill from the night kill, it does say that Dross can't be nightkilled, and that is pretty much laid out there. My thought on that was that the wolves must have another way of killing him.

Are you revealing?

Font, stop being coy and spit it out. If you can help us narrow the field, please do. My vote right now is on you. If you're a roled villager, I would prefer not to lynch you.

Huh? Nosta has a way of killing him. He has to be dead for the wolves to win. We haven't killed a wolf, so Nosta is still alive. Ergo, EF is dead. Maybe the rules of WW are more complex (?) and I'm missing something?

What does "your town" mean? I'm not taking the idea of getting lynched well, but I'm also a laid back kind of person. I can counter logic, but you'll never find me going after people (like you have, no offense). I don't even know what to tell you about a smiley face...

I think she's talking about you saying there will be two kills tonight, one for Dross and one for the nightkill, and that in saying so, you are revealing yourself as having more knowledge (which could only mean you're a wolf).

I don't think it is that clear from the rules, but she is right that you were rather forthright about it. How did you come to the conclusion we would have two kills tonight?

Chief got the first part.

The second part was supposed to be "your tone." Apologies.

I never said tonight. I said soon or later. The wolves have to kill EF. Yes, I did (do) assume that since his death can't be by NK, then a NK can still occur. There are other roles that set up more deaths on a night than the lynch and NK. I very well could be wrong. I guess it's quite possible that I am. This is still a critical vote...we cannot lynch another villager. I don't want to have bungled my way into a bad kill that I'll be blamed for when it's revealed I'm a villager.

Are you claiming to be a vanilla villager? No role?

Right back atcha for being probably (but possibly not? Nah.) evil. :)

But why not consider that by knowing his identity, scum can just ignore Druss' usual night kill immunity? Why assume they specifically get another kill?

Well, this has been an interesting day.

Well, you talked ratios after tonight, which certainly implies it would all occur tonight.

To me, there's no getting around the statement "Dross can not be nightkilled".

Combine that with "Nosta has a way of killing him", which suggests not the normal way (i.e. nightkill), and I don't think it is a tremendous leap to think that there are multiple possible deaths here.

Wouldn't the wolves kill Dross the second they could? I just assumed he would die tonight. I think EF is assuming that too. What am I missing?

I don't think there's a way to resolve this without a lynch, though.

VOTE CHEEKIMONK

...
What? How do these work together?

OK font, that could be a nice catch and it is the closest thing to evidence we have, so for today i will go with you

vote Cheekimonk

I am saying you have a potential point and the only way to figure out is to lynch cheekimonk. Do you disagree?

I don't want a runaway, but Font isn't getting traction, EF's claimed, I'm alone on Suicane, and I'm not voting for myself. Hrmph.

But you just made an argument as to why my point isn't valid.

No, I made a point that you shouldn't be so certain you are correct. But I'm not saying you're wrong either.

Plus, I do think cheeki is being a little cagey. And you're apparently someone who can stop a lynch, so my main vote target isn't available (and if you're telling the truth, I want you alive).

So cheeki is as good as anyone at this point. Might as well figure this out now, and not let it drag out for days.

Interesting. You voted for font to be lynched yesterday, no?

I would look more closely at saldana tomorrow. I have to go back over things but there were a couple subtle things that stood out from him.

EF, can I ask if you have certain proof or just a hunch here? If you look at the D1 movement the last couple hours by cheek, it doesn't look very wolf-like to me.

I'm not claiming any role. There's no reason to out myself with only Druss being known, and after the first 2 nights ANY villager is critical...role or not. It's going to hurt the village to lose me and I can say that based on straight logic without an emotional appeal to everyone to trust me that I'm EXTRA valuable. That would reek of desperation to me, and would get the wolves after me in any case.

No, I talked ratios. Period. If I'm lynched and I'm right that a NK can still happen when Druss is killed, then that's -3 villagers now or later. I didn't think I had to point out that the ratios are going to look even worse later on.

I do assume the wolves will kill Druss ASAP, but the rules don't say how that works or when. As I said, soon or later EF is dead.

I honestly dont see what cheeki has done to warrant the runaway. Everything he said could easily be deduced from the first page of this thread. Yeah the stupid smile emoticon was not ideal but i took it as a joke (from someone who has told many stupid jokes).

Because the rule goes at length to say Nosta has "a way of killing him." Putting that right against "cannot be NK'd" says to me that "way" is something other than NK.

Ended up doing roughly 350 miles of driving today for work... catching up on the thread!

Hey!

lol - I meant jokes that didnt land quite as well as they do in your head. I'm the king of those.

and I still feel very confident voting for cheeki.

I think Suicane and britrock definitely deserve long hard looks as well.

Lol! There's a lot of things not landing today quite as well as they are in my head...

I dunno. I'd rather see one of font/JAG/Brit but those don't seem to be getting traction.

Can I point out in my defense that EF got this roll on me started (maybe I haven't helped my case with my answers but this is my first time on the spot in this game) and I have yet to get a response to this earlier exchange:


Is there any reasoning I can address? All I see is:


I feel like I'm throwing water on a grease fire without knowing any better, but why was this grease fire started? I really do NOT want to leave you guys thinking I'm a terrible player when you lynch another villager not because of any logical reason but because of my awkward answers.

Being as objective as I can, I don't think my D2 pattern was very wolf-like either...at least as I judge it. There are definitely patterns that are more wolf-like, to me, which goes back to why this was started on me in the first place.

Are there any patterns in particular you want to point out?

Pat, can I ask who's in the group you trust the most?

Well then, who do you like? Who do you distrust? I see two votes and no movement. Would love to hear some thoughts on people.

i did, and i was going to vote her again today, but she seems to have actually caught something that makes sense...everything else is just a hunch...she tagged onto an actual fact, so i will go with her today, and if Cheekimonk comes up village, i will vote her at 1001 tonight.

I feel that font has taken a fairly insignificant post, one that I think can be deduced from the character list and roles, and blown it up to be something it isnt.

Did you mean to say "can" or "cant"??

Well, it's pretty small which is frustrating.

I believe EF because of no counter claim -- though if you are Druss would you counter? I think with the count getting closer and no seer hits you probably would.

I know my alignment.

I have not seen anything that has pinged me from Chief (except the vet angle), Zinto (except how quiet he is), and saldana (who I remember usually playing his cards close to the vest).

I think Suicane is a confused new player.

I've given Homer & cheekimonk newbie benefit but am looking harder now.

I was suspicious of Grover and am not so much right now but cannot for the life of me figure out why.

And you know that I'm pinged hard by you, font & JAG currently. I probably feel best about JAG out of that group but he is a better player than I am so he may just be playing me.

Did I miss anyone?

Suicane, for one. He started the momentum for the bad lynch on D1, then helped along the momentum on D2's bad lynch before ditching for EF...when EF was not remotely in danger. Convenient since I called him out for stoking the fire for GE on D1.

font, in addition to being oddly aggressive here, tried to start a pile-on on D1 before jumping at the last minute to GE. Who did he try to start the run on? Why, none other than Raven...D2's erroneous lynching and one he also piled on immediately when it started along with...

Zinto. Who, I've pointed out, has not cast a single vote for someone not lynched (all bad for us). He's been quiet, too, and vets have pointed out that it's quieter than usual.

So I'm just going to assume for the sake of this exercise that we lynch Cheekimonk and that he's a wolf. What does that tell us?

- his D1 LL avoidance points indirectly to Suicane and Font
- his D2 switch from Sui to Grover points toward Suicane and away from Grover
- posting/reads:
----- justifies early D2 Sui vote by Sui bandwagoning onto GE D1; switches to Grover when Sui points out it was a self-defense vote
----- (post 463, EF points out how it feels orchestrated)
----- defends himself when Grover asks pointed questions
----- makes a mechanical inference about Druss/Nosta, catches heat from Font for it

...I dunno. Not that I get any kind of good feeling, but this seems like it could very well be new player feeling out the WW atmosphere. I'd still rather head toward Suicane first, I think. But I'll reread him to see what there is pointing in that direction beyond his presence near the LL for the last 2 days.