I really want to understand cohesion better
 

Been playing various version of FOF single player for years now, just SP. Only played a bit into FOF8 before my league got corrupted but was disenchanted I hadn't taken Baker Mayfield's browns to the SB yet.


In old versions of FOF I used to keep everyone I could to maintain coheison. I'd keep backup QBs, WRS, and DBS and the like on the team for years just to have those cohesion guys. This seems to be more expensive in FOF8 and something seemed to indicate to me that it doesn't work quite the way it used to. For my most recent game I was operating under the impression that starts were the key, but I'm not sure if that's only chemistry.


Can anyone point me in the right direction? Tried to search but couldn't confirm. Is there still cohesion for your bench warmers? Is it still worthwhile to keep signing this guys to FA contracts at higher rates, or should I ignore it unless they are starters?

Start with this as conventional wisdom and probably correct:

-what counts is mostly the continuous years on your team, as shown on the player card
-that means don't let a guy wait until after camp to re-sign, that resets the clock
-the game looks at this once to create that "cohesion" chart, mostly ignore that
-the game looks at and uses these numbers each play using the players on the field

So... cohesion is a function of the 11 guy on the field for that play, and how long they have been on your team. Building cohesion among benchwarmers who are inactive has either zero effect, or very little (unlike chemistry and mentorship, which do).

To add to this, that's how it worked in the past as well, backups didn't boost your cohesion in FOF7, FOF2007 or FOF2004 either, the 'boost' is based on the 11 guys on the field. The 'cohesion' screen numbers are based on what was the starting lineup in the most recently played game.

Much less clear, but I think it also works that way on special teams plays, so replacing a return specialist, kick holder, long snapper or even the punter or kicker himself is only useful if that player is a clear upgrade, or if you really need the cap space for whatever reason to give up on the long standing player.

It is true that in FOF8 these players will demand more money. It's much harder to keep a bunch of guys together, but as QuikSand already pointed out, you don't need a backup for his cohesion if he doesn't play much. It will help if your team has many low endurance players on defense or at skill positions and you're mixing up which players are on the field for the various formations.

I've definitely found it a lot harder to maintain my roster in this version of FOF. Players almost always want what they would get in a dream scenario in FA, based on their ability level. I basically never used to let guys hit FA in older versions- I would extend, extend, extend. Now I sign my core players if I can and let a lot of guys hit FA and hope to sign them if I'm lucky. Single player for me in FOF was always hard at least in terms of actually winning the SB and not just fielding a playoff team. It's really hard to get a team that's talented enough to win the SB without wrecking the cohesion and then coming up against some team that's managed to keep a good cast together for years to build unstoppable cohesion.


In this version of the game I've basically been operating under the principle that any newly acquired guy (either draft or FA, or the more rare trade) won't be a key component of the team until they've spent a season on my roster unless they are star caliber potential.

Say a player was on my team during training camp, plays a few games then I trade him away and he becomes a FA. If I go to sign him in FA, will he count as on my team since just this year? Or will he count to when he was on my team previously since he went through training camp with my team?

No. It’s based on the “joined team” year, which resets if the player is cut, traded, or becomes a FA and doesn’t sign a new contract before TC. This is a place where you need to abandon “real football” thinking. It’s the value in that one data field, even if he plays for you for 15 years, doesn’t sign before TC, but signs right after TC, he is a brand new player for cohesion purposes.

thank you

So I have a MP team and just focusing on the O-Line here, my entire O-Line was drafted by me, so their years pro are all spent on my team.

C Anthony R 35/68
C Mason 2nd yr 30/56

LG Kraemer 7th yr 60
RG O'Pope 4th yr 68/75
RG Kauffman R 42/70

LT Hughes 4th yr 68
LT Grennes 2nd yr 31/62
LT McIntyre 6th yr 49
LT Banks R 9/40

Starters for next season (currently TC) are likely: Hughes LT, Kraemer LG, Anthony C, O'Pope RG, McIntyre RT.

So if I am understanding this thread correctly there is some merit to keeping backups on the roster in order to maintain cohesion when players retire or cannot be signed. In my case Grennes and Kauffman are eventually going to step in to starting roles.

My Question is: What is the effect of each year on cohesion? what is the difference between a player 5 yrs in with a team to a player 10 years in? In my case is it worth starting someone like Mason over Anthony for the extra 1 year with the team?

Usually I don't play rookies on the O-Line because of this, unless that rookie has a future rating of something like 75+ and the veteran on my team is something like under 45 or the veteran has been on the team only 2 or 3 seasons.

I'm willing to sacrifice overall ability and cohesion if the future rating is very good to excellent and it seems likely that by the end of the season the kid will be close to his potential, but roughly I think a 45/45 10th year player will play better than a 50/75 rookie, yet I'm not sure a 40/40 8th year will be better than a 60/80 rookie.

Is there a definitive number? In the game, sure, but thankfully we don't know for sure.

So, I suppose I don't have a clear cut rule of thumb here, but based on the examples above, I'd recommend roughly 2.5 to 3 overall points per season on team.

(And a typical caveat, it'd depend on the various bars too, run/pass preferences, how convinced you are that the future ratings of the 1st and 2nd year players are no mirages, etc., etc.)

In your case, I'd probably start:
LT Hughes 4th yr 68
LG Kraemer 7th yr 60
C Anthony R 35/68
RG O'Pope 4th yr 68/75
LT Grennes 2nd yr 31/62

The Grennes vs McIntyre thing is almost a coin flip, it would depend on which guy is the better run blocker. The same applies to McIntyre if he is a better pass blocker than Hughes. It would be unfortunate to put RG Kauffman R 42/70 on the bench, it might even be worth considering to put your best run blocking guard at center. But both are your luxury problems to deal with. :)

Or, luxury... you probably stumbled into those high future bars, but unless injury settings are high, I'd feel like waste of resources to have so many starting caliber O-Linemen, 6 is plenty. And based on purely the cur/fut of the young players, it's likely one or two of them will never reach their potential and actually peak at 50 at most, which would make it a mistake to bench a 6th year veteran like McIntyre.