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Lathum 01-16-2020 01:06 PM

2020 MLB thread
 
With it being a new year and all the stuff coming out thought it best to start a new thread.

Looks like it is being reported on Twitter that Beltran is stepping down.

Atocep 01-16-2020 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 3262081)
With it being a new year and all the stuff coming out thought it best to start a new thread.

Looks like it is being reported on Twitter that Beltran is stepping down.


Mets gonna Met

RainMaker 01-16-2020 02:38 PM


SirFozzie 01-16-2020 03:55 PM

At this point, from a security standpoint, you have to go to a NFL type thing with headsets in the catcher and pitcher's hats or something similar right? (or allow catchers to use buzzers or something similar to call pitches.

RainMaker 01-16-2020 03:55 PM


tarcone 01-16-2020 04:12 PM

Wow. This is getting really ugly.

And with a strike looming. This is going to be an interesting 3 years for MLB.

SackAttack 01-16-2020 04:15 PM

I know Manfred is trying to avoid picking a fight with the MLBPA over the players' cheating, but between Beltran's niece's allegations and the plethora of photographic and video evidence that seems to at least tangentially support those allegations, I wish he would burn that franchise to the ground.

Absent that, drop the hammer on Altuve, Bregman, and anybody else who appears "buzzed up" in those photos and videos.

RainMaker 01-16-2020 04:41 PM

Manfred should also go. This happened on his watch and seemed to be an open secret.

PilotMan 01-16-2020 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack (Post 3262100)
I know Manfred is trying to avoid picking a fight with the MLBPA over the players' cheating, but between Beltran's niece's allegations and the plethora of photographic and video evidence that seems to at least tangentially support those allegations, I wish he would burn that franchise to the ground.

Absent that, drop the hammer on Altuve, Bregman, and anybody else who appears "buzzed up" in those photos and videos.



What photos and videos have popped up since the buzzer allegations?

RainMaker 01-16-2020 04:53 PM

Lot of stuff floating around that are weird. Not definitive though.





Altuve's splits in the 2017 playoffs are comical.

SackAttack 01-16-2020 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan (Post 3262107)
What photos and videos have popped up since the buzzer allegations?


Since the original ones? Dunno. But been seeing on Facebook all day stuff like the video of Altuve's ALCS walk-off where he's yelling at his teammates not to rip his jersey off, and pictures of players appearing to have a patch underneath their uniform.

There's even one of...Reddick, maybe? Being interviewed, and he's got a patch with what appears to be a wire through it on his left shoulder (he's not wearing his jersey, so you can actually see it.

It's a bunch of smoke and "see-what-you-want-to" on some level, but with the overall sign-stealing scandal and the 'bandage buzzer' allegations that Beltran's niece is freshly leveling today, welll...that franchise gets negative benefit of the doubt from me, now.

Does it make me an asshole? I'll wear that. But I'm treating allegations against the Astros surrounding this scandal as true until proven otherwise, because from what we've seen so far, there's no line they were unwilling to cross.

Fuck 'em, and fuck Hinch in particular with his "oh lol no that whistling thing is bullshit" followed less than a year later by "oh gosh it was just so hard to stop I tried to smash the screen but they just wouldn't listen to me"

Fuck 'em.

SackAttack 01-16-2020 04:54 PM

FOFC wouldn't let me upload the one, but Rainmaker posted the biggies.

SackAttack 01-16-2020 04:55 PM

By the way, if you pay reaaaaal close attention on the Altuve video RainMaker linked? You'll see a patch on Altuve's right shoulder. As alleged.

Drop the hammer, Manfred. I want his reputation so destroyed any chance he ever had of making the Hall, let alone any future All-Star Games, is nil.

Atocep 01-16-2020 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie (Post 3262096)
At this point, from a security standpoint, you have to go to a NFL type thing with headsets in the catcher and pitcher's hats or something similar right? (or allow catchers to use buzzers or something similar to call pitches.


I'm not sure headsets really work with pitcher/catcher. Buzzers could work if implemented correctly.

One thing that I feel definitely needs to happen is a crack down on tech allowed in stadiums in the name of biomechanical analysis. It's a given that when you allow a team to put 75 cameras throughout a stadium to track player movement that it's going to be abused in any and every way it can be.

Atocep 01-16-2020 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack (Post 3262111)
By the way, if you pay reaaaaal close attention on the Altuve video RainMaker linked? You'll see a patch on Altuve's right shoulder. As alleged.

Drop the hammer, Manfred. I want his reputation so destroyed any chance he ever had of making the Hall, let alone any future All-Star Games, is nil.


Manfred needs the hammer dropped on himself as well.

Toddzilla 01-16-2020 05:21 PM

MLB has to do a 180 on this and just say stealing signs is ok. It's been a part of the game for 150 years, and teams will still be stealing signs 150 years from now. If some teams/pitchers don't like it, then get smarter about changing them up. The Nats didn't have a problem in last year's World Series because they accepted the fact that the Astros were all-in trying to cop the signs and made their signs way more complicated to prevent them from being stolen.

Cameras, telescopes, binoculars, surveillance, psychics, it's all fair game.

RainMaker 01-16-2020 05:24 PM


JonInMiddleGA 01-16-2020 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3262105)
Manfred should also go. This happened on his watch and seemed to be an open secret.


He should go on the grounds of being a f'n idiot with or without this scandal.

RainMaker 01-16-2020 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toddzilla (Post 3262114)
MLB has to do a 180 on this and just say stealing signs is ok. It's been a part of the game for 150 years, and teams will still be stealing signs 150 years from now. If some teams/pitchers don't like it, then get smarter about changing them up. The Nats didn't have a problem in last year's World Series because they accepted the fact that the Astros were all-in trying to cop the signs and made their signs way more complicated to prevent them from being stolen.

Cameras, telescopes, binoculars, surveillance, psychics, it's all fair game.


I'd rather watch to see who the best players and teams are and not who can find the biggest nerds to set up cameras and activate buzzers.

stevew 01-16-2020 05:49 PM

at this point gut the astros farm system completely. Talking everything.must.go.

stevew 01-16-2020 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirFozzie (Post 3262096)
At this point, from a security standpoint, you have to go to a NFL type thing with headsets in the catcher and pitcher's hats or something similar right? (or allow catchers to use buzzers or something similar to call pitches.


funny how the headsets will always have issues in Foxborough though...

Lathum 01-16-2020 06:10 PM

If they can prove the buzzers were used lifetime ban for all involved. Way worse than what Pete rose did IMO.

JPhillips 01-16-2020 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum (Post 3262124)
If they can prove the buzzers were used lifetime ban for all involved. Way worse than what Pete rose did IMO.


I know it's not baseball related, but Pete was fucking 15 year olds, so fuck that guy.

Lathum 01-16-2020 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3262125)
I know it's not baseball related, but Pete was fucking 15 year olds, so fuck that guy.


first I have heard of that. I was talking about the gambling

SackAttack 01-16-2020 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 3262117)
He should go on the grounds of being a f'n idiot with or without this scandal.


One of the rare few times Jon and I will ever see remotely eye-to-eye on anything. History made, today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew (Post 3262120)
at this point gut the astros farm system completely. Talking everything.must.go.


Salt the earth.

Carman Bulldog 01-16-2020 08:17 PM

EVERYBODY CHEATS!!!

Stop being so obtuse people. So, so, so many pitchers have admitted to scuffing balls, using vaseline, thumbtacks, etc. Gaylord Perry cheated for years and eventually got caught. He's a Hall of Famer today. Many batters have used cork bats. We really only know about the people or teams that get caught.

Yet we always act so indignant when people or teams do get caught. "Wow, I can't believe team X could do that. What a bunch of cheaters."

It's not just baseball. There's arguably some extent of cheating going on in every locker room of every sport. People have a historical affinity for Montana-era 49ers. They cheated. All the time. The O-Lineman were spraying silicone on their jerseys, Jerry Rice was using stickum on his gloves, etc.

Let's just stop pretending that the only one's doing this are the one's that get caught.

PilotMan 01-16-2020 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog (Post 3262132)
EVERYBODY CHEATS!!!

Stop being so obtuse people. So, so, so many pitchers have admitted to scuffing balls, using vaseline, thumbtacks, etc. Gaylord Perry cheated for years and eventually got caught. He's a Hall of Famer today. Many batters have used cork bats. We really only know about the people or teams that get caught.

Yet we always act so indignant when people or teams do get caught. "Wow, I can't believe team X could do that. What a bunch of cheaters."

It's not just baseball. There's arguably some extent of cheating going on in every locker room of every sport. People have a historical affinity for Montana-era 49ers. They cheated. All the time. The O-Lineman were spraying silicone on their jerseys, Jerry Rice was using stickum on his gloves, etc.

Let's just stop pretending that the only one's doing this are the one's that get caught.



There's a big difference in the size of the stick being used here though. We're not talking about PED's for one player, or a spitball that a pitcher throws. We're talking about something that has a much, much, much more substantial effect on the outcome of the game than these other things. It's quite literally, a game changer.

Carman Bulldog 01-16-2020 08:56 PM

I think one of the best examples of this is the 1988 Olympic men's 100 metre final.

One person "cheated" and got caught and that was Ben Johnson. He was stripped of his gold medal and the general public vilified him. He was the "cheater." How could he do that? What have we learned in the 30 years since then?

Eventual gold medalist Carl Lewis tested positive three times for a banned substance during the 1988 Olympic trials. Under the rules at the time, he should have been banned from competing at the 1988 Olympics.

Silver medalist Lindford Christie tested positive at the 1988 Olympics after the 200 metre heats. He claimed the banned stimulant was from a gingeng tea and he escaped sanction. He later tested positive (again) in 1999 was eventually suspended.

Bronze medallist Calvin Smith is one of two runners from the field of eight that was never implicated in any instance of doping.

4th place finisher Dennis Mitchell, 6th place finisher Desai Williams and 8th place finisher Ray Stewart were all also linked to drug scandals at some point in their careers.

I'd be surprised if anyone in that race was actually clean at the time it was ran.

Carman Bulldog 01-16-2020 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan (Post 3262134)
There's a big difference in the size of the stick being used here though. We're not talking about PED's for one player, or a spitball that a pitcher throws. We're talking about something that has a much, much, much more substantial effect on the outcome of the game than these other things. It's quite literally, a game changer.


How is Gaylord Perry doctoring balls not a game changer? I mean, I suppose he never won a pennant. But I'm sure it impacted games. Why cheat if it's not intended to help you win?

Don't get me wrong, I agree to a degree that cheating occurs on a spectrum (although I appreciate other people who view it as black and white). But are we saying that we are okay with small scale cheating and it's only when it's organized and on a larger scale that we become upset?

I'm not saying the managers (and players) shouldn't be suspended. You cheat and get caught, you pay the price. Many people speed but only those that get caught get a ticket. It's more the public outrage that I take issue with, as if somehow the sanctity of the game has been tarnished. There is no sanctity to tarnish, people!

PilotMan 01-16-2020 09:24 PM

It's not a whatabouism. Yes cheating, is cheating. However, Perry is pitching 36 games, throwing 120+ pitches a game.



This system is every. single. game. every. single. pitch. How is THAT not the game changer we are talking about?

Carman Bulldog 01-16-2020 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan (Post 3262141)
It's not a whatabouism. Yes cheating, is cheating. However, Perry is pitching 36 games, throwing 120+ pitches a game.

This system is every. single. game. every. single. pitch. How is THAT not the game changer we are talking about?


That's what I'm saying though. We seem willing to turn a blind eye to cheating on a micro level but then act surprised when it occurs on a macro level. We also respond as if the teams on the macro level are the only one's cheating period, ignoring both the cheating on the micro level and the very real likelihood that other teams are also cheating on a larger scale.

Do people believe that Houston was the only MLB team that either did, or were trying to, steal signs electronically?

Every time that a successful team cheats, people seem to get really angry about it. My opinion on this is that I believe it ruins this (false) idealism of sports that they have in their head. If this had been the San Diego Padres, does anyone even really care?

JPhillips 01-16-2020 10:50 PM

This is an argument for never prosecuting any crimes. Just because you can't catch everybody doesn't mean those caught should go free. They knew they were breaking the rules. They got caught. Tough titties.

bob 01-17-2020 11:13 AM

This video cracked me up:

Everything You Need To Know About The Current State Of Major League Baseball As Told By Mean Girls : baseball

spleen1015 01-17-2020 12:08 PM

Nah, Carman is right guys. We should ignore all cheaters.

We should ignore them doubly when they're told to stop and they keep doing it. We can ignore that they were cheating and we can ignore that they were told to stop and kept doing it.

Fuck it.

:D

larrymcg421 01-17-2020 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog (Post 3262135)
I think one of the best examples of this is the 1988 Olympic men's 100 metre final.

One person "cheated" and got caught and that was Ben Johnson. He was stripped of his gold medal and the general public vilified him. He was the "cheater." How could he do that? What have we learned in the 30 years since then?

Eventual gold medalist Carl Lewis tested positive three times for a banned substance during the 1988 Olympic trials. Under the rules at the time, he should have been banned from competing at the 1988 Olympics.


This is not quite true. The levels Lewis tested positive for (which would not even be a violation today) did not mean he should be banned, but that there should be further investigation. This happened and he was cleared. The IAAF reviewed this later and said the USOC followed proper protocols for Lewis and other athletes. Lewis' name got dragged through the mud because Wade Exum was pissed that he lost a lawsuit.

Lathum 01-17-2020 01:34 PM

I generally am against guys throwing baseballs 100 mph at batters on purpose, but I would be totally fine with a guy like Chapman (yes, I know he is no saint) putting one right in Altuves ribs.

Lathum 01-17-2020 01:48 PM


Carman Bulldog 01-18-2020 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog (Post 3262140)
I'm not saying the managers (and players) shouldn't be suspended. You cheat and get caught, you pay the price. Many people speed but only those that get caught get a ticket. It's more the public outrage that I take issue with, as if somehow the sanctity of the game has been tarnished. There is no sanctity to tarnish, people!


Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3262145)
This is an argument for never prosecuting any crimes. Just because you can't catch everybody doesn't mean those caught should go free. They knew they were breaking the rules. They got caught.


Quote:

Originally Posted by spleen1015 (Post 3262182)
Nah, Carman is right guys. We should ignore all cheaters.

We should ignore them doubly when they're told to stop and they keep doing it. We can ignore that they were cheating and we can ignore that they were told to stop and kept doing it.

Fuck it.


C'mon! I say outright that I think not only the managers but also players should have been suspended. That's not what my issue is with. It's almost like some of you didn't even read what I said before replying.

Chief Rum 01-18-2020 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog (Post 3262142)
That's what I'm saying though. We seem willing to turn a blind eye to cheating on a micro level but then act surprised when it occurs on a macro level. We also respond as if the teams on the macro level are the only one's cheating period, ignoring both the cheating on the micro level and the very real likelihood that other teams are also cheating on a larger scale.

Do people believe that Houston was the only MLB team that either did, or were trying to, steal signs electronically?

Every time that a successful team cheats, people seem to get really angry about it. My opinion on this is that I believe it ruins this (false) idealism of sports that they have in their head. If this had been the San Diego Padres, does anyone even really care?


They were responding to this, not the post you quoted.

Atocep 01-18-2020 05:36 PM

The Mets are considering Dusty Baker to replace Beltran.

Have we not been punished enough?

miami_fan 01-18-2020 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3262272)
The Mets are considering Dusty Baker to replace Beltran.

Have we not been punished enough?


Has there been a GM/Manager recently? Maybe that is the way to go for the Mets?

Only half kidding.

tarcone 01-19-2020 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atocep (Post 3262272)
The Mets are considering Dusty Baker to replace Beltran.

Have we not been punished enough?


I hear Alex Cora and AJ Hinch are available. Thats a couple WS managers.

HAHA

miami_fan 01-19-2020 11:14 AM

Hang on now. The smartest front office in the history of the game have reportedly scheduled a interview with Dusty as well.

Atocep 01-25-2020 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miami_fan (Post 3262296)
Hang on now. The smartest front office in the history of the game have reportedly scheduled a interview with Dusty as well.


With Bobby Evans interviewing for the GM spot they may be looking to dial back the reliance on analytics. Evans is also a big Dusty Baker guy.

PilotMan 01-27-2020 07:32 PM

The Reds lock up Nick Castellanos for 4 years in his prime. It opens up some flexibility for some of the young guys to find other spots. The team is certainly pulling in some talent for the next few years and it's really good to see.

spleen1015 01-27-2020 08:42 PM

I could take a few years of the Reds being good.

Butter 01-27-2020 09:16 PM

AMEN

JPhillips 01-27-2020 09:44 PM

I'm not sure what they're going to do with fourteen outfielders, but Williams has done a hell of a job transforming the roster in two years. They still don't have a SS, but they're a contender and they have the pitching to succeed in the playoffs.

tarcone 01-27-2020 10:45 PM

I fear the Reds have passed the Cards. Damn fiscal conservatism.

Rolling the dice on the young OFers I guess. And Carpenter coming back.

Im not happy with this offseason.

lungs 01-27-2020 10:55 PM

It's definitely a good time for the Reds to make a move. Cubs and Cards have been pretty quiet. The Brewers have turned over a good chunk of the roster but it's a tough sell saying that they've gotten better.


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