Crusader Kings
 

I know we've got some Paradox fans around here, so I wanted to see if anyone could give a review of this one. It looks like more of the same to me, and I'm always a bit leery of purchasing their games before the kinks have been worked out. Are the personality additions enough to warrant a new purchase?

I liked the game a lot when it arrived, but I haven't played a lot since I've been so hooked on CM 03/04. However, that being said I have put in quite a few hours and I find it to be fun, but still rough around the edges. I think another patch or three and it will be a very solid game.

The next patch should be out in the near future. It will iron out in theory a lot of the AI issues. The game as it is now is way too easy.

Any idea on a timetable for this?

1.03 came out last week, no?

Paradox' site is down now, but it's at File Front.

Now if they'd only sell the game, it would be even better. Usually GoGamer has these imports before their US release, but even they don't have it.

FYI

The new patch is out. They have updated it itoo 1.3b

tough game
 

Is this game more complicated than EU 2?It looks interesting but very very complex.I tried EU 2 but I found it alittle too complex.Thanks

Been reading about this game, it sounds pretty good. I'm a big EU2 fan and I think the idea of being able to play a similar type game with a smaller scope would be very interesting. So it doesn't come out in the US for a few months and isn't on Go Gamer? Any other ways for us to get it here in the States?

Order directly from Paradox? Least that is what I did (although mine was a pre-order)

I have ordered the game and waiting for it to arrive (might be a long wait!) I hope they release the next patch sometime soon, the game seems to be improving but there's still a lot of stuff to fix from what I've read.

Got the game yesterday, it's been a blast so far. There's a lot more immersion in your dynasty than your country in EU2 because you're dealing with individual characters and their personalities, I'm not really trying to "game the system" and get really powerful so far, it's fun to be able to set your own goals and try to accomplish them though. I don't think it's more complicated than EU2, though as usual, there are some things that aren't explained. Some of the things like the way tech advances are handled are brilliant though, very fitting to the medieval system.

Update:

I am definitely having a lot of fun with this game. It's a bit of a different playstyle from EU2, but it really gives you a lot of choices, you can be a world conqueror or try a more introspective, roleplay style like I have been doing. Good stuff.

I'm looking forward to giving it a whirl, Peregrine. But I am going to wait for GoGamer to discount it than I'll pounce.

Peregrine, please shut up. ;)

I have been trying hard to not buy this game for a month now, as it's way over my $20 limit. In a moment of weakness, I actually caved in and ordered it, but the order didn't go through for some reason. Whew. The confusion from the botched order (I wasn't sure if the order went through or not) bought me another week's delay. I've been able to hold off for a while more, but then people like you come in and post great stuff about the game. Aaargh. Hopeless, I tell you. I'll consider it a major victory for my self-discipline if I can just hold off until the end of the month.

"more introspective, roleplay style" ... Is that another way of saying peddling off your children into marriage, then assasinating the right people so you then have tenuous claims to thrones other than your own even if it involves then killing your own children?

If so, thats my preferred way of playing also... *maniacal, evil laughter* Its good to be da king. ;)

- Eilim, Supreme Evil Dictator of Ireland

I consider that the gaming the system style ;)

Eek. I found EU2 to be way too complicated for me to manage. I haven't even looked at Crusader Kings yet, but if it compares to EU2, I'd be too confused. I love the ideas of these games, but I fear that they may be too much for me. :(

Well I'd certainly have to say that Crusader Kings is not as complicated as EU2, there's less to keep track of really. I enjoy both games, but they are pretty different in how they play out.

My game arrived today. Managed to fumble my way through thirty years worth of gaming. Still very lost, but things are starting to clear up.

Made myself the Johann the Count of Mayo and off I went. Only one county to manage so there really wasn't too much to do as of yet. I was a chaste, energetic fellow, married to a bulldog of a woman called Maghrete. Whether it was the chastity or her ugliness or a combination of both, I'm not sure, but for whatever reason I only had two kids, both sickly girls. The youngest died of an intenstinal worm, but the oldest--a warped kid that liked to tortute pets--managed to get over her pneumonia through vigorous horseback riding and survive. She was the only hope to pass on inheritance, so I wanted to keep her in the county and not marry her off to some foreign land. Finally when I was 49, I got a male courtier, aged 51, to marry her, aged 21. Whatever it takes, I figure.

Anyway, they promptly had two sons and saved the family line, providing these kids live.

My useless wife ended up getting pregnant four years later, at age 43, but of course we had another girl.

And not only was my wife useless in bed, but she spent money like a sieve. Thanks to that, the only distinguising landmark of my 30 years as Count Mayo will be a small stone library.

Fun stuff.

Still can't really do much with only one county yet. I'm someone else's vassal, and everybody around me has a bigger army, so I'm guessing my only way to gain power is to marry into some other lands. Can't do that until my grandchildren turn of age, so I'm pretty much just sitting around waiting to die.

Starting as a county is pretty tricky, especially in Ireland since they are some of the poorest and lowest tech counties in the game. I recommend either trying a duchy, or if a county, at least a rich or independent county. Some of the ones in eastern Europe such as Chernigov are independent counties from the start I believe. I played a game as the Count of Carcassone in southern France that was pretty good, he starts with two very rich provinces so that helps a lot.

Unless the male coutier is of the same dynasty line (read as country cousin), you'll find that your game is over when your current ruler dies. Time for your wife to have a nasty fall down the stairs I think.

Peregrine: Thanks for those ideas. I picked Mayo because I liked the name. Count of Mayo. My grand ambition was to take the province of Bologna. Then I could have had Bologna on top of Mayo. Heh heh.

Alas, it was not to be. I spotted a solitary province in southeastern Ireland that had just been decimated by war, grabbed a claim on the title, and attacked. My liege jumped in to help and we sieged their fort for about three or four years, but gradually our men died off and we had to abandon the retrospectively stupid plan. Just as my few remaining guys got back to my home province, the King of Scotland declared war on me. Three years later it was game over.

I didn't realize that Ireland was so poor compared to the other areas in Europe. Although it was fun, there wasn't much for me to do for most of the game. Having a stupid ass wife that only gave birth to three daughters made things pretty limiting as well. I will definitely try a different area next time. Carcassone sounds like a good place to try. The board game is a lot of fun. I read the CK manual last night and figured out a lot of stupid things that I did and a lot of intelligent things that I didn't do, so I think I can do a bit better next time.

Eventually I think I'll go back to Mayo and give it another try when I get a bit better at the game.

Klayman: Although Johann was still alive when the Scots ran over our walls, I think my family line was ok. I had an inheritance law in effect that let the inheritance pass through my daugther to the grandsons. Unless I was misreading the rulebook, that is. It listed the grandsons as my successors in my little family tree screen, too, so wouldn't I have been ok?

My useless wife actually ended up dying from depression a few years before the Scots killed us all. I didn't take another wife, as I liked my grandsons and thought they would make fine rulers.

You would think, but that's not quite how it works. The heir has to have your last name to continue the dynasty, and any grandsons through your daughter (while technically part of your dynasty) would have their father's last name, thus ending your family line. Think of it this way: we are playing a multiplayer game and my son marries your daughter and has 1 son. Who's dynasty does "our" grandson continue as? Mine of course, and it's game over for you.

As far as successors listed under your family tree, it only shows who's next in line, not if it will continue your dynasty or not. For example the Duke of Warwick, William Fitzosbern, has successors in his family tree at the start of the 1066 scenerio. None are from his dynasty, though, and because no other Fitzosberns exsist in the game, if he dies without a proper heir, it's game over. If you have a save game, simply click on your ruler, bring up the console (f12) and type "die" and that will show you if I'm right or wrong. I'm pretty sure your game will end (if it doesn't ctd).

Klayman: You were right. I typed "die" in the console and the game ended. Thanks for clarifying that. I was thinking bloodline continuing, as that's kind of what I thought the manual was talking about when it said inheritance could be passed through a daughter, but the continuation of the name, as you explain it, makes a lot more sense.

Although the whole thing became moot when the Scots wiped everyone out, I'm glad you clarified that, as I would think it'll be important for future games.

Also, there is no divorcing in the game, correct? So if your wife is barren or keeps giving birth to unhealthy girls, the only way to solve the problem is to assassinate her and get married to someone else, right?

You are correct.

Pretty much. Or you can use the F12 - die cheat. Personally I don't like to assassinate people, I think it's a cop-out and makes it way too easy to become really powerful in the game. But some people do like it.

Just to clarify, inheritance is passed through the sons of a daughter with the right inheritance laws. Your grandsons will technically inherit your land and wealth, etc. However, the dynasty only passes through characters with the same name and that is what determines if the game continues. Thus, it is possible to have a distant relative (as long as he owns some land) continue your dynasty while you watch your former realm get inherited by someone elses dynasty.

Well, I still don't have this game (and I'm still undecided about whether I'll buy it), but I'm reading the thread with great interest. From an outsider's standpoint, it seems a little unsettling to think that the game could end just because you haven't had a son. Does the game lose any of its fun because you could be in a "lame duck" situation? I'm not sure how I'd feel about putting (presumably) hours into a game only to lose everything I've done because of something that's out of my control.

Any comments?

Well, it's a bit of an uneasy feeling at first until you get your family established. After you play a while it becomes less and less of a problem. The reason is that you build up a number of uncles, cousins, etc who share your last name but aren't in your direct line of succession. I use these as my primary vassals. So even if somehow you got unlucky and died without a direct heir, usually one of these other relatives (with your same last name) would take over and the dynasty would continue. You can also change your succession law to favor certain people, and guide the succession that way.

The only time I've been really nervous is in my current game as Kingdom of Georgia, both my kings have had bad luck in wives and seem to get tons of daughters, and I've had a few sickly sons die.

This looks like a game I might have to pick up. While I enjoyed EU and EU2, I thought they were a bit "dry". This sounds like they are taking the basic game and concentrating more on the rulers and lineage which I think is a step in the right direction (at least for my enjoyment).

I just started reading this thread, and I think I'm convinced to buy it now. The lineage aspect of the game is intriguing to me. Next time I'm at a software store I'll have to look for this one. Thanks guys.

Ahbrady: It's only available here right now. In September it'll get released in the US.

I hate to hear that. I intended to pick it up today. How long does shipping usually take from Paradox?

Took about a week for me. I've heard seven to ten days is average.

Conversion from euros should make everything around $46, total, give or take a couple of dollars.

Normally I would just wait until the game gets released here, especially with Paradox's history of releasing semi-functional games then patching the hell out of them over the following year. However, this one seems to be pretty stable and functional now (version 1.03), so I'm glad I picked it up early.

I started a couple of new games (as Chernigov and Carcassone) and they have been fun. Chernigov (modern day Russian area) has been fun. Although you start off as a count, you are independent and have four decent provinces. I've managed to take another province from the heathens to my east, and now am trying to build infrastructure while I wait for my sons to come of age so I can give them control of a couple of provinces. I can't handle five effectively by myself. Once I get them in control of a couple of provinces, I'll attack those heathens again. In a perfect world, I will become King of Rus.

Shipping was a week for me on the East Coast, placed order on Friday, got it the next Friday.

I enjoyed my game as Carcassone. France fell apart in my game so I was able to pick up some provinces and become Duke of Armagnac, and now it's my goal to defend southern France from the Moors who have total control of Spain.

Peregrine: Did you withdraw as a vassal then? I can't seem to figure out how to do that.

As an aside, does anyone know if it is possible to edit the speed at which the secondary information screens pop up when you hold your cursor over a particular person, etc.? Right now, the name comes up immediately, but it takes two seconds for the rest of the info to appear. I looked for an .ini file to edit but can't seem to find the appropriate one.

(I'm trying to get registered on the Crusader Kings boards so I can search their forums myself but their "server is too busy")

Thanks for the info on the shipping. I will probably just wait until it is out over here. I'm a teacher, and we start back next week, so I'm not sure I'll have a lot of time to play it the next few weeks anyway.

Stupid question, but...

I have five provinces and want to make a son a vassal and give him one of them to manage. How on earth do I do this?

I can figure out how to grant the title to the province and give it to my son, but it becomes an independent province, not a vassalized one. Once I give it to him, there is no option for offering vassalization.

In case it's important, I'm a count.

Okay, this is because you are still a count. A count can't have vassals, so if you give away titles they just become independent counts. You need to become a duke before you can have counts as vassals, at that point your son would become a count and your vassal. Similarly you need to be a king before you can have dukes as vassals. Try to claim a ducal title when you can, I think you can get Languedoc if you control either Narbonne or Vivers (sp?) which you start next to, or I got Armagnac by getting control of Foix and Armagnac.


Basically if your loyalty gets low enough, you'll start to see options like swear loyalty to other lieges, that's what happened to me, the King of France started revoking titles left and right and I took the opportunity to become a vassal of Germany instead. Once you get a King title you become independent.


Not sure about this, but they will know on the boards. Yeah, you get that too busy message fairly often, just refresh a few times and it will usually come up.

Peregrine: Thanks for the answers! Much appreciated.

I'm playing with the Chernigov game, and that's where I was having trouble with the vassalization. But my mess has gotten much worse. My main character died, and his first son (who continues the dynasty) had been in charge of two provinces given to him by his uncle. Well, he inherited all his dad's lands, which suddenly put him in charge of 8 provinces (as a count). He's also a vassal of his uncle, so that limits things a bit, too. Our economy is shot to hell because the poor guy can't manage so many provinces. We've got thieves, smugglers, and brigands running around some provinces. Typhoid fever just broke out in another one. Yikes.

Rather than give the provinces up to his brothers and lose control over them, I figure I can just take the land from some of the High Chiefs to our east, which I guessed would allow me to claim a higher level title. Three years later we've now got 12 provinces, but our economy has ground to a halt and we're heavily in debt. I have enough land to claim a Prince title, but I've got to figure some way to get enough money to do so. Not sure if I can claim that title while I'm a vassal of someone else, either.

Quite fun stuff. I think it's going to take a handful of games like the one I've got now to figure out the game system well enough to have a clue how to play effectively.

8 provinces as a count! Ouch, that would be causing problems. You start getting a lot of bad events when your efficiency is that low (as you've been finding out) in addition to the mess it makes of your finances. You can definitely create new titles at any point, though depending on who your liege is I'm not sure how it will work. The money can be an issue, like you said. You could try to be sneaky and give up a few provinces to a relative, but set it up so that it eventually inherits back into your family, but that can be risky.

Fun game. Kind of grows on you.

Finally sorted out my mess with Chernigov. Gave a province each to my mother, nephew, and brother. That got my economy back in the black. Had to wait five years and weather numerous rebellions before I had enough money to claim a prince title, but that got me out of obligation to my liege and allowed me to vassalize my other brother with three provinces, greatly improving my economic efficiency. It's now 1090 or so and I've got a princehood, independence, and two vassals. My only son turns 16 next year so he'll get two or three provinces, which should bring my economic efficiency back close to 100%, and then I should be able to expand. I'd like to aim to become the King of Rus or Lithuania. How possible that is remains to be seen.

So when's the dynasty going to start up? :D

Well there are dozens of dynasties (AARs) on the Paradox boards that you can read, honestly I wouldn't feel up to matching the incredibly deep writing style and historical knowledge that most of them display, so I'll just link to them:

http://www.europa-universalis.com/fo...play.php?f=239

I like the Haus Wettin one personally.

I'll take a closer look at some of the AARs over on that board, but I would think it would be challenging to make a dynasty interesting. The game is so long timewise that you'd have to make sure you didn't get bogged down in the details, but much of the interesting part of this game lies in the details and the relationships involved. I don't think it's something I could do well.

It might be fun to give just a light overview of a long game, or a detailed account of one person's life in the game.

I agree GB, plus the AAR system that has developed over time for Paradox games is so mind-blowing its unbelievable. People put so much effort and do so much creative writing for them, several of them have been pulled because people want to try to publish them. I agree that the EU2 ones tend to be better, but following a dynasty can be pretty interesting as well. The Haus Wettin one tries to make it pretty interesting with the personalities of each of the rulers, but it does get harder and harder to keep track of the dynasty as the game goes on, just like in the real game!

As a heads up, Paradox released the 1.04 patch yesterday.

After an extensive beta process, the official version 1.05 is very close to release...like maybe next week! This is exciting stuff for a unique and very cool game.