It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't, right? There's going to be a downturn either way because some people won't go if masks are required and others who won't go because masks /aren't/ required.

SI

If I had a strong tourists needed business, I probably would feel a little differently about the masks law, but since I don't and there's more and more of a local year-round population these days thanks to them building houses in every corner they can find, I don't think those businesses are likely to suffer as much as they would in the past by having a mask law.

But be sure to refresh my memory about this if I bitch too much :)

Just for clarity, I'm not talking present, I'm talking future.

If you didn't go to Vacation Destination X during this then it would seem that you're less likely to have a firm recollection about their position. If you DID go, however, and had a bad experience that seems more likely to stick with people and impact future behavior.

2020, you have finally delivered. That shake is so fucking good.

Generally for me they follow it. We have open breezeways, so once buzzed in they can just walk right up to my door. This was the only person who couldn't be bothered. I mean there is a spot in the app when it comes to review the order where it asks "Did the driver observe your contactless delivery request". She had to know she'd get dinged for that, right?

Interesting from Goldman Sachs:

Error Page


Basically GS looked at mask wearing as an alternative to a second lockdown.

People have been saying that for a while now. Masks reduce spread and widespread mask usage can drop the R0 below 1 and start to control the virus. We're one of the few stupid countries not onboard with this plan.

SI

Its crazy how many people still think this is a joke, an experiment to control us or an election conspiracy.

There is one douche on the FB community page of my town who responds multiple time to any post about covid with all of those theories.

At first it was "fun" to correct him, but it is not worth the breath. He is dead locked into his deep state bullshit and trolls away while he jacks off to a head shot of Alex Jones.

Time to stock up again, Trump couldn't even beat the virus.

I like their Cappuchino and Chocolate Chip shakes more, but that first watermelon shake of the season can't be beat :)

North Myrtle Beach has passed a mask requirement. Myrtle has one drafted, but have not yet voted. Meanwhile the state is getting more than a 1,000 new cases a day

If one more person says something about a watermelon milkshake I'm gonna hurl.

You have to post a photo of the hurl or we won't believe you (please don't :) )

There's a good article in the WSJ (behind a paywall) about masks in Hong Kong. 97% of people use them in public and they haven't had to shut down anything really (the 3% are Americans and Europeans). People going about their business as normal and cases remain minimal.

Hong Kong has had 7 deaths and just over 1200 cases total.

It's a choice we made.

Well, Colorado just closed its bars again. Odd decision in my opinion. There has been a small uptick in cases the last couple of weeks but there has also been an increase in testing and the positivity rate hasn't increased.

Makes me worried what the updated numbers that come out in a few minutes will be.

Whatever they decide they want them to be today.

Well, not really any change with today's data, if anything it looks like the small increase has halted.

What do you think the benefit of making up numbers is? So that politicians destroy their local economy and look bad to voters? Or for hospitals to lose their most profitable form of business (elective surgeries)?

I see people thinking these are being faked but I can't understand who the hell it benefits.

Just made dinner reservations for Thursday night. First time going out in 4 months to a restaurant.

I generally take this stuff with a grain of salt, but exactly. It would be like getting fettuccine alfredo with no sauce. It was fathers day also.

I am surprised the dashers don't check it considering DD is on the hook. The cream cheese thing pissed me off also because there is literally 2 slots at the top of the bagel box specifically to hold the cream cheese.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/30/dr-a...demic-flu.html

Because why not?

Read in passing about another state (forgot which) that is pushing back opening of indoor bars. They are just super obvious candidates for big superspreader events and more and more are reported in countries that tried to open them somewhat normally and states like Florida as well. This might be preemptive more than anything.

EDIT: https://www.today.com/today/amp/tdna185492

And as an aside: Ultimately we as a society might have to pick and choose. And as bad as it is for bar owners and people employed, i do hope we rank them far below schools in terms of importance.

NJ was supposed to open indoor dining starting Thursday and is postponing it.

I imagine that there are lots of viruses every year that are like this and in any other given year they wouldn't make a blip in the news. This seems like one of those instances where we're hearing about it because of everything going on.

Here they are preventing any in dining alcohol sales even during dinner. I think it is to prevent those big gatherings later at night.

True. Heck, those evil chinese labs Trump and co like to blame do just that: monitor zoonotic viruses and assess their potential dangers (which is an entirely imperfect science. For example it seems pretty certain the new Coronavirus was deemed harmless in bats, but then mutated either there or in another species).

There is also a hundred or so every year making the jump to Humans, fortunately mostly limited to a few harmless cases. (Which can change at any time, for example it is thought that HIV took off on the 10th 'try'.). And yeah, the fact this went the normal publishing route of a paper kinda tells you it is a wait-and-observe thing, not a "everybody Panic" thing
But the problem itself is very real and increasing pretty rapidly. And there have been a few terribly close calls before covid.

Actually always had a morbid fasconation with this ... Davin Quammen had a great book about this (Spillover) and there is an episode on this in the Netflix series "Explained" (The Next Pandemic) from 2019 ...

My wifes BIL sent a link to her saying that this isnt a virus after all but a bacteria that causes blood clots in the lungs. This was discovered by the Italians and they have a cure.

Anyone else hear this one?

That has been citculating on and off since may and pushed to the general public by certain circles, originating on social media posts purposefully misinterpreting facts ...

It is a Virus that is also causing blood clotting (often and significant) and like any prolongued respiratory illness sometimes Covid19 patients develop a secondary bacterial infection, which then contributes to the risk of dying significantly as it does with other illnesses.

And both blood clotting and bacterial infection can in theory be treated by medication quite targetedly (and often antibiotics were administered quite liberally at least in the early days, to at least do something, which leads to problems of it's own re: drug resistant bacteria). And Italian pathologists, among others around Europe, did discover this extensive blood clotting in the lungs via autopsies (which the WHO did warn to be cautious with, not yet knowing how much virus is still present at TOD). And Italy has the virus under good controll right now after a much more strict and legthy lockdown and due to extensive testing, tracing and quarantining. Not because they are the only ones to wake up and smell the coffee (and just prescribe Aspirin as the original conspiracy theory claims along with of course sth about 5G)

So you have truths mixed together in a seemingly logically but still also 100% wrong and ludicrous conclusion to 'proove' there really isn't a virus out there and since there is a cure, all we need is open our eyes and ask for it.

Fact check: COVID-19 is caused by a virus, not by bacteria

COVID-19 Isn't Caused by Bacteria - FactCheck.org

I think this is true, but I also think if you can't have bars open you can't have schools open either. There's no way to have that many children in close proximity and not create the exact same problem.

All schools in the area the I know of are pushing back starts. Rockdale/Newton are starting on August 24th for k-3 grade, while the older students are doing online instruction. Older students aren't starting back in class til after Labor day, but they have a choice to do at home schooling. There are going to be several "Independent learning" stretched during the year as well.

Thank you! I was wondering if I was the only one there for a mo'. :)

It's to stop people from surging in to get tested all at once, from the stories I've read. Particularly in places that are already overwhelmed.

But 1) you should have a much easier time with surveilance/tracing to detect cases and then stop the spread, meaning the epidemiological damage can be limited much more efficiently with a good plan and ressources. Like regular testing, fixed groups etc, then of course if you get a case, you normally (at least more often than bars ...) have accurate contact information immediately available. And even when you can't reach someone the kid will be there the next day to get a hold of.

And again 2) the benefits outweigh the risks by a lot more (which really for kids are extremely miniscule), especially long term.

We are using the same cost benefit thinking with opening up in general or at least we should, there are always things open that are riskier but more essential while others are shut or limited despite being less dangerous but also far less essential.
With schools it feels like it's overlooked because there is no immediately obvious (!) economic benefit. But in essence it is what in other areas is called an "essential business".
Cutting education is unsustainable. And as an aside, school meal plans are also hugely important to a lot of kids/families.

Not to mention that without schools and daycare, parents of younger kids especially have the choice to leave kids alone all day every day with all the nagative consequences arising from that, not go to work (remember your point in the trump thread on this possible issue, of which childcare imo is an important factor/motivator) or leave them with, say, their grandparents... And a lot of those parents work in true essential businesses where them missing time is a societal problem.
It's not happening in a vacuum.

One of the more fascinating things about the pandemic and in a larger sense where we are as a country is the unity with which all political sides don't believe anyone of the numbers being reported.

Eh. I don't agree. While there are some parallels there are also a lot of differences.

If there is an outbreak in a school it would be far easier to contact trace and contain.

Schools have teachers/staff/etc...to make sure kids are wearing masks, washing hands, social distancing, etc...bars rely on the patrons themselves to do this, many of whom are intoxicated and already don't view themselves as vulnerable.

Schools can stagger recess, lunch, restroom trips, etc...bars just let people in, and many break the rules for capacity because owners see the almighty dollar.

A lot of schools are talking about kids being on groups or pods where they stay with the same 4 kids all day, every day. In theory a bar would be much safer if people stayed with their group, but again, young people are going to mingle and try and meet girls, etc...

Schools can dedicate staff to constantly clean, disinfect, etc...while bars may do this overnight, but once they are open for business they likely aren't doing that sort of sanitary maintenance.

The biggest difference between schools and bars is alcohol.

Alcohol doesn't help, but it's more about controlling people's movements. Which is why restaurants are not shutting back down (yet), but bars are. You sit in one place at a restaurant and eat; in bars, people are up and mingling.

In school, there is (theoretically) even more control.

I also think a lot of it is the mentality. Kids are pretty easy to get into a routine, especially for a teacher trained to work with them. Plus they want to be in school and will listen to instructions. They of course will be kids and do kid things, but by and large it won't be hard to get them to follow a routine.

People who cram into bars are mostly younger kids in their 20s who full well know the risk and think they are invincible or they won't get it. They don't care about being spreaders or what happens to others, as long as they can go out and have a fun night.

Now get off my lawn.

Yeah, my wife came home and showed me that. Thankfully, we're almost equi-distant time wise between the Miamisburg and Springboro one. I am surprised they were hit by this because the Springboro restaurant has been pretty dang tight with allowing people in, distancing, etc. When I picked up some carry out over the weekend, they send you a text when it is 5 minutes prior to pick up, and they have a station outside to check your text before allowing you in.

Never thought I would identify with this, but I so do LOL

Another difference is when at a bar or restaurant, you are shoving things in your mouth, whether it is food, peanuts, popcorn, drinks, etc. A mask is pretty cumbersome in that environment vs. a school where you are only doing that during lunch.

Right I always forget about the Springboro one because it's in that back corner of that shopping center. So inconspicuous.

I am at Dairy Queen across the street more often than I care to admit, being fat and all.

Heathens!

Huntsville Hospital CEO David Spillers: we now have 5 children in the hospital with COVID-19, “some only months old.” One patient is a 4-year-old with cancer @whnt

— Melissa Riopka (@MelissaRiopka) July 1, 2020

Schools are attended by children. I don't see how you can possibly, I don't care how much you stagger (and for logistical reasons, there's only so much you can do) have effective social distancing for hours with dozens/hundreds of children of that age.

The contact tracing could theoretically be done better there, but that makes the assumption that we are actually doing contact tracing competently and at scale (we're not). So that part of it is a non-issue practically speaking.

"We're Texas!"

Texas Lt. Gov. blasts Fauci as state coronavirus cases rise: ‘I don’t need his advice’

Dan Patrick is a fucking moron.

Social distancing isn't the be all end all though. You can have the kids regularly hand wash, wear masks, go outside, open windows, stay in smaller groups, not share equipment, control bathroom trips, etc...

I don't think you have kids, trust me when I say it never ceases to amaze me when I visit school and see just how well the teachers have the kids trained.

I just think it is a bit absurd of a statement to compare schools to bars.

Says the guy who wants to sacrifice Grandma to the economy

Can confirm.

SI