Another police brutality case
 

Shocked that this hasnt been discussed here yet, or if it has I missed it.

Raw Dashcam Video Shows Cop Tasering Teen Bryce Masters Into Coma (Full Version) - YouTube

Officer tases a kid for 5 times the recommended length, drops his unconscious body face first onto the concrete causing permanent brain damage and gets a 4 year sentence.

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/07/...e-of-recovery/

Can't say it doesn't worry me as the father of a 16yo who is just starting to drive.


And THAT should be scary to everybody.

The officer certainly didn't do himself any favors the way he treated the kid after he was handcuffed, but to what length does this kid have to resist before he gets Tased? The kid disobeys the officers instructions multiple times. He physically resists the officer. The officer told him at least twice to get out of the car, after he points the Taser at him and before he deploys it. Does this kid not bear any responsibility for what happened?

If he had tased him once, for the minimum time, that probably wouldn't have been a big deal if he didn't go into cardiac arrest.

But he almost killed the kid by tasing him for five times as long as normal, and intentionally dropped him on his face... I think those are the real problems.

The real problems, at least from the article, suggest that the police guy had mental issues and seemed to have it in for the kid. Made up something to pull him over falsely and then tried to detain him. What is weird is that they let him plead down to the lowest offense...

Its not white on black so the major news outlets don't care.

Did you intentionally skip over every word in CU's post?

Officer definitely went over the line but I have no sympathy for the kid. He should have followed the officers instructions. Plain and simple.

If you do stupid stuff then the likelihood of stupid stuff happening to you goes way up. Just sayin. Having said that... this officer is a moron and should be locked up and off the streets. I get that they have a high pressure job and they sometimes snap, or there are just bad apples, but they need to be held accountable. As far as leniency on the sentence... come to Chicago some time. People get a slap on the wrist for major crimes. It sucks but there's not much accountability throughout the system.

Its terrible, its not needed, and excessive. The officer should rot in jail.

That being said, a conversation about if we are in this situation if the kid followed directions isn't crossing a line.

Yep, cop used excessive force. Much more than was called for. The kid didn't do himself any favors though.

I like how the cop just rolled through a couple of stop signs. Never even slowed down for one. "Nah, rules don't apply to me. I just enforce them."

CU's post was full of the sensationalist crap that he probably rehashed from the news. "5 times the recommended length" for a Taser deployment equals about 25 seconds and is hardly unheard of. I'm also willing to bet that the brain damage was caused the by cardiac arrest and not being "dropped on his face".

Since this has already been through the court and this guy has already been found guilty. I can only assume that there it more to this story than is shown on the video. Its just that when I watch it, I can't help but wonder why this kid didn't take one of the, at least four, chances he had to do what he was told? If the traffic stop was truly based on a bad charge he could have fought it and court and beat the officer there.

Woah...my post was full of sensationalist crap?
No 25 seconds is not unheard of, neither are taser deaths.

Have you seen th photos of his face and the multiple broken teeth? Im sure the face drop didnt help.

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/07/...e-of-recovery/

I'm not really sure why you chose to attack me in your response, I simply made my initial post without a lot of comments because I am very opinionated on the matter and I didnt want to derail the thread before it even started.

I'm going to add a separate post now with a few of them.

As always, the main problem is the other cops covering up rather than throwing the rotten garbage into the trash. Makes the entire force just as bad as the offender.

The kid's father was a cop and even he had trouble not falling in line. It's amazing.

This is hard for me.
I am distrusting of LEO as a rule because of where I live and my life experiences.

I agree the boy COULD have handled this differently and a different outcome would have happened. However my larger argument is he should not have HAD to handle it differently. The cop performed an illegal stop based on a personal vendetta, then he lied and tried to cover it up later.

I teach my kids, comply and live to fight another day. But when these issues arise I think we need to make it as public as possible as this is the road that leads to a police state.

Watch the video where the cop say "Ok fuck it" And leans against his car with one arm while he tasers him.

Then when the second officer says "We should update the ambulance to emergency response" The initial officer says he called it in emergency. When in fact he did not.

The initial officer tells other officers at various points in that video that:
The kid walked to the drop spot
The kid was talking ate the tasing
The kid was awake and nodding after the tasing

This is the type of shit that without exposure gets swept under the rug.
While the consequences aren't nearly as severe, I could argue the transgression and intent was worse in this case than the Michael Brown case. Never saw that officer laugh at the victim.

And while I hate to state it because it will derail the thread, if the kid was black the city would have burned on that verdict.

While I can see this viewpoint. The kid was doing exactly what his cop father told him to do, ironically enough.

So that pesky 4th amendment is just a nuisance to you, isnt it?

This

The punishment the officer got is WELL deserved, and law enforcement should be accountable when they cross the line like this.

But at some point people need to realize that complying with instructions instead of trying out your amateur lawyer skills pays far better dividends. My son in Naval law enforcement is at a base with a high civilian workforce, so 80% of his interactions are with civilians and are the same as an officer in most cities.

He has people try and goad him into a 'mistake' almost daily and it wears on him sometimes. At the end of the day he just wants to do his job well and go home to his son. Luckily he is fairly laid back and is a bit of a smart ass, so he just handles these situations with clever little retorts or ruthless professionalism and stays on an even keel.

But after listening to some of his stories I can see why someone who may already be a hothead can snap. This is never an excuse and I want to make it clear I am not saying it should be, but people just need to be respectful and rant about it later on facebook.

Come on man. The kid started out being a douche by not rolling down the passenger side window all of the way.

Your 4th amendment rights will be enforced when its proven the cop was unlawful in pulling the kid over. The kid doesn't get to be a douche because the cop is.

I don't see the comparison between this and the Michael Brown case. This officer was clearly wrong, while I think the facts eventually vindicated the officer in the Brown case.

Let me say that I do believe that what the cop did was pretty brutal and he deserves everything and more than what he got. It is hard to watch that uncensored video.

I just think it all was avoidable if the kid just complies with the cop and doesn't try to show him up or do whatever it was that he was trying to do.

Passenger side window was broken, and couldn't roll down. I watched the whole video the other day, until a while after the parents showed up, and you can hear both of them yelling that at the cops. "The window doesn't work on that side!"

I'd have to go back and watch it. Does the kid say that to the officer? I don't think he does. He just starts arguing with him.

I find the "no sympathy" comments to be astounding. I don't expect everyone to agree with me that the death penalty should be outlawed. But I do expect any reasonable person to agree that what the kid did in this video did not deserve execution.

This seems to be the favorite form of argument in these threads, though. "If he didn't do x, then the cop wouldn't have done y". It's such a stupid argument, because you could make the y variable any punishment, no matter how severe, and it would still be true. "If he didn't disobey the officer, then his head wouldn't have been chopped off. I have no sympathy."

To me, I see a video where a kid didn't trust what the officer was doing and before getting out of the vehicle wanted to know why he was being pulled over and if he was under arrest. I don't think this warranted death nor do I think most people would expect this to lead to death. I have sympathy for the kid because he did not deserve to die. If you don't have sympathy for him, it's your right to have that opinion, but we're operating from a completely different set of moral values.

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He says that when the officer comes to the other side. You'll notice that when the officer comes to the other side, the kid rolls that window all the way down.

The point is that constitutionally, he doesn't have to comply. "Well, just let the cop violate your rights, and then try to sort it out later" shouldn't be the accepted solution. The citizenry shouldn't have to accept unlawful searches just because they don't want to get tazered and their teeth knocked in.

For all the "just comply with the officer" crowd how far does that extend?

If the officer approaches your wife/girlfriend/daughter and says he suspects her of smuggling drugs in her vagina and to drop trow and spread 'em...should she listen? Or should she simply ask for a warrant and another officer to be present.

That is essentially what this 17 year old kid did, asked why he was pulled over and why he was being asked out of the car.

I agree with you. The kid didn't deserve to die, and its sad and unfortunate. I have a lot of sympathy and empathy for the kids family and friends. The loss of life over something stupid like this is just mind blowing.

However, I do disagree that the argument is stupid. Intent matters. if the cop wanted to kill the kid he would had drawn his other weapon. Instead he drew a taser, and in my opinion wanted to give him a rough go of it. I do not think the cop intended to kill the kid, he just wanted to teach him a lesson. We can debate if the lesson was warranted, but I think that's a separate issue.

I don't know why disobeying a cop is right?

I don't think that's exactly what occurred. There is a difference between being combative, and politely asking questions.

There was nothing polite about how that kid started off from my view point.

FWIW, the kid is still alive, just kinda messed up mentally/emotionally.

My bad all, I actually thought the kid died from it. Which now makes sense on why the cop only got 4 years. I couldn't quite figure that one out either.

FWIW, an officer has a right to take you out of your car at a traffic stop. If you refuse, the officer can physically remove you. Even though you're not under arrest when he asks you to leave the car. But, once you refuse to get out of the car, you've committed a misdemeanor crime and THAT'S an arrestable offense. I think there's a lot of disconnect there in a lot of these situations. A Terry stop or a traffic stop becomes a crime/arrest scenario only after the person disobeys a lawful order. The internet teaches you to just yell, "Am I under arrest?" over and over again, which doesn't recognize that there's scenarios (traffic stops and Terry stops) where you are not under arrest, but you are also not free to go, and are subject to lawful orders. You can see the officer kind of hesitate at first when the driver asked him if he was under arrest - because he wasn't under arrest. The second the driver resisted though, then the officer did lawfully control the scenario more and the driver WAS under arrest.

So the officer was entitled to use force to get him out of the car. He might have even gotten away with using the taser briefly - specifically for the purpose of getting him out of the car. Obviously here the officer used the taser beyond that purpose, and then there was rough stuff/neglect afterwards that also had no lawful purpose at all.

But the officer probably could have avoided all of the use-of-force questions just by communicating better with the driver. "No, you're not under arrest sir, but this is a traffic stop, so you're not free to go, and on traffic stops, I'm allowed to talk to you outside of the car, just for your safety and mine." This officer knew what he was allowed to do, he knew he could take the driver out of the car, and he he knew the second the driver resisted he controlled the driver and all of his movements and could arrest him. With people who aren't cut out mentally to be officers, knowledge of that law, knowing when you "control" a scenario and a person, can lead to an overconfidence/dickishness that can lead to tragedy.

Edit: Also, in every state I'm aware of, there's no requirement that an officer tell you the reason you're pulled over. 99% of the time, they should, it makes their jobs easier and avoids situations escalating, but they don't have to immediately tell you the nature of their reason for the stop upon your request. The reason they'll often ask you, "do you know why I pulled you over", is to see if they can get an admission for a traffic violation on tape. If you get arrested, that's a different story - most states have statutes requiring the officer to identify themselves and state the reason for arrest.

I would actually argue the opposite...it's inevitable that something like this eventually happened with this particular cop if the kid's actions led to him doing all of this.

I give cops a tremendous amount of slack when they are, obviously, legitimately in fear for their lives or even have a hint of a need to protect themselves. But cases like this they need to be held to a much higher standard for controlling their emotions.

Let's not take things to that extreme with that comparison. Muns is correct. There is a difference between exercising your rights and being combative. Nothing wrong with asking why am I being pulled over, I have done it too, I just wasn't a dick about it. I have sympathy for the kid, it is unfortunate and the cop is a tool here. But there is a smart way to handle these situations, without just blindly capitulating to an officers demands.

He also could have gotten out of the car and once again asked why he was pulled over, something like. "Sir, may ask again why you pulled me over please?" After a certain point if the cop continued to be a dick, get his badge number and call in a complaint. Especially if you know you did nothing wrong.

This is one of those deals where I see it the way I do and others see it differently. We're not going to change opinions, just find more and more reasons to disagree. :D

I was raised to respect authority. I'm a veteran. I was trained to respect authority.

I think that's a lot of what's wrong with our country. We've lost family values and have a general, overall, lack of respect for authority.

FWIW I read in another article that I cant find now, one of the points submitted by the prosecutor was that the officer never legally ordered him out of the car. He said the officer said "Ok thats it. Get out" never using the words "get out of the car" Since the kid cant remember the incident he can only speculate that the officer was saying "get out of here and leave" and then grabbed his leg.

Now thats a BS position, of course. But it does go to show the number of errors made by the officer. Another LEO in the same state posted something on reddit counting down the errors or violations of policy from the video and got over 100 before the kid exited the vehicle. All the way down to improper phonetics when reading the tag in.

Final point it cant be lost in all this, that this same officer has previously stopped this same kid 3 times. 1 was convicted and the other 2 were over turned for improper search violations.

I am of the opinion that the officer should have received life without the possibility of parole and his family should be forced to pay restitution to the victim.

I'm not a veteran, but a lack of respect for other people in general, not just authority, is the root cause of most of the world's social issues.

I expect everyone to respect other human beings. I pay the police to be professional about it. The kid on the other hand... Yeah, I was young and stupid once too. I forgive him... Not the officer.

Pretty much this. The kid was 16? What do you expect?

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...y-problematic/

A good piece on Sacramento and the problem with rules of engagement.

Unfortunately French gets this dead wrong.


The average American is at more risk from a common criminal than they are from any suspected terrorist, based on sheer volume. The more of them they drop, the better off we all are, plain & simple.

Silly. It would be much better to exterminate any 19 year old without a high school diploma.

This is why I believe in sensible gun legislation - if the presumption is made that someone is always armed then deaths will occur ... the more common this becomes, the more likely criminals will carry guns, knowing they'll be shot at ...

Far better to try and de-escalate society to a sensible level where guns are legal to own and carry but far fewer people do because of regulation and licencing (like in every other first world country on the globe).

Not sure if this goes here or the kids going off to college thread.

https://www.theroot.com/college-stud...eca-1825580033

Not brutality, but a lack of humanity?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/06/u...-overdose.html

St. Louis Police Officers Indicted For Beating An Undercover Colleague : NPR



Also, Ferguson protesters dropping like flies: Another Ferguson Protester, Bassem Masri, Has Died

Those text messages are pretty damning.

I mean... I don't know.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/26/us/st...ing/index.html

A police officer actually had to tell two other police officers not "they shouldn't be playing with guns." They did not listen and now one is dead.

I really really don't know.:banghead:

Really weird story. Makes me wonder if there is more to it and the "Russian Roulette" is a way to cover-up something worse. Just can't understand why a couple cops would play the dumbest game imaginable.

This one is local so I may or may not have any more useful information (admit I didnt read the cnn article since I know the story) but sounds like a married off duty female cop was at an apartment (EDIT: after midnight) with two male uniformed on duty cops when she got shot with a non service gun. Also reports are the back window of their police cruiser was busted out at the house but the cops are saying it happened at the hospital when the shooter hit his head repeatedly on the back window. Seems like it would be hard to bust out a cop car rear window.with just.your head.

My guess is lovers quarrel but wouldn't rule out training day type shit there is another case locally with a group of cops beating a plain clothes officer not sure if this ties in or not.

Very fishy lots more to come I'm sure.