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I'm not convinced but here's one possible answer. Coronavirus: How the world rushed to panic buy toilet paper - Business Insider Quote:
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Ah yes I agree. Some people acting like it is end of the world stuff is ridiculous. |
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Well not sure why they saying 100k and tha5 is coming from head of the health there. I guess we won’t know since Trump does not want the real number exposed. |
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I did buy an extra 1,000 rounds of Ammo earlier today. Partly because my son is coming home this weekend with 2 college friends and wants to shoot and partly because ...it’s the only guaranteed way to get tp and hand sanitizer hahah |
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My son is coming home too and may be bringing his roommate from the Netherlands. I was actually thinking about offering to take son & roommate shooting. Assuming it would be the first time for the roommate and was wondering if I should get permission from parents first :) How's ammo availability & prices? Supply hard to find like n95, hand sanitizers and TP? |
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i mean it's common sense that the fact that they didn't even know the virus was here until a nursing home was full of patients and now suddenly there are cases across the country....that a TON more people have it than they know. At least...i dunno what they aren't telling us. Perhaps they know that the 5 known cases have already been traveling around a lot. Reading the article they are using math to calculate the spread. But none of that is a guarantee because you don't know how much contact has been involved. But the fact that they said something...makes me think they know something On the other hand when has someone that made a statement to the news known anything |
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If you are going to let someone elses kid shoot a gun you should 100% get the parents permission. |
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I don't know if I really believe this but the thought has occurred to me that government doesn't want widespread testing because government knows the numbers of infected is huge. Then the other side of my brain asks why would they want to hide this intentionally because it's going to come out sooner or later anyway. In 2018-2019, about 35.5 million infected by Flu. The 100K may be premature now but don't think its unreasonable when all is said and done. |
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The number of confirmed cases is meaningless. The US has no real testing going on. South Korea has tested over 200,000 people. That's like 0.3% of their population. 4% of those tests have come back positive. They've been aggressive at quarantining and found the epicenter and did a good job shutting it down. I'm not sure why this is shocking. We know it transmits easier than influenza. And 5-20% of Americans come down with that each year. There's no reason to believe that we won't topple that number considering there is no vaccine. |
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The roommate is 21 or 22. I'm open to it but I wasn't sure it was really needed. |
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Still young enough to ask permission IMO. At the very least float the idea out there to get a feeler. |
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#1 I don’t know . I have no direct knowledge and I don’t know how anyone does. #2 just think about the implications to get to 100k. Using my math above if all 5 each infected 3 people. And all 15 of those people each infected 3 people then all 45 of those people each infected 3 people... 9 times over gets you to 100k. If one of the first folks only infects 1 then we got two more levels to go through. Of course if he infects 20 then it’s shorter. But this incubation /symptom/ possible positive cycle makes it unlikely based on current known info that we are on generation 9 in Ohio. #3 the other side of the argument , if there are 100,000 infected and bodies aren’t piling up in the street ...then the mortality rate is lower than feared. Also have you seen the Iran digging mass graves headlines? Read deeper, in a current cemetery they have identified a 100 yard trench 5’ deep. So if they stack 6’ tall folks head to toe no casket no space between each that’s 50 people. Tragic for sure but not 10s of thousands of bodies like the language imagery creates. I’m simply not worried about it. It’s either not that bad and no need to worry. Or it’s truly a plague and it’s going to wipe us out and I can’t do a damn thing about it so why worry. I’ll just stay down on the farm, go out a bit less... and see what happens. |
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I am sure not getting sued is high on the priority list but I think it is as simple as they had no plan for dealing with this virus. The easiest thing to do is close the school and send the kids home until it goes away. Or until the they have to come up with a plan. |
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The Novel Coronavirus, 2019-nCoV, is Highly Contagious and More Infectious Than Initially Estimated | medRxiv Not that we need anything else to keep us up at night, but one of the best virus projecting labs in the country had this: "the R0 value is likely to be between 4.7 and 6.6" SI |
Catching a little Hannity. Are the liberals really calling racism for calling this the Wuhan Corona Virus?
Please tell me we are not politicizing this. |
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Going off of what some of the earlier models estimate, we should be at a 10-20x multiplier of what we're reporting now. That means we're probably looking at 30Kish cases in the US right now. Like that the Houston area has like "13 confirmed cases". Sure, because we're not testing anyone. but if you told me the number was in hundreds (say, 13x20), I'd buy it. Open Letter 1 on COVID-19 Unfortunately, exponential growth is a real bitch. Assume about a 30% increase in cases per day (i.e. doubling every 3 days), those numbers get really bad really fast. That puts us at 2-5M cases by the first Friday of April. Hopefully the social distancing will put a dent in some of that because already having infected 1 of 100 people in such a short span is just staggering. SI |
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I was really glad you were back until now |
Trudeau's wife has just tested positive for it.
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I got the R2 from Gupta on TV. |
PGA Tour cancels its events for the next three weeks even though the first round of The Players Championship had been played.
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PilotMan got on me about being gone more than 5 years and still being in the top 10 in posts so I thought this was as good a time as any to reconnect with old friends. It's been a busy 5+ years. I moved back to Houston not long before leaving and that's had its plusses and minuses but is a net positive. The Royals won the World Series. That was pretty awesome. I originally walked away because I knew I had to cut some things from my life to rebalance. We were gearing up for the arrival of my kid, who is now 4 1/2 (that half is important at his age). And, boy, that does a number on one's life. But I'm happy to be back. I've missed you guys (and gals). I only wish it was under better circumstances. SI |
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Yes I agree it is good to see you back. |
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That is assuming that there are only 5 people infected in Ohio which there surely aren’t. |
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Understood which is where R0 and R2 get conflated and murky. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...spread/605632/ Vs https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...xqYXfu21GLVhb_ |
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I agree completely. But there is a grand canyon between suggesting 100,00 cases today in Ohio alone vs 2m nationwide in 3 weeks. 100,000 in Ohio today at growth rates estimated, would put this beyond 500 milliion by the april date. Just for perspective . And Btw F Trump for politicizing this and F Pelosi for trying to leverage this for abortion funding. Can we fire them all? |
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(Northern) Italy seems to be giving is the worst case developed world scenario, South Korea seems to be demonstrating a best case response, and I still think in the end we'll be in the middle of those two, closer to the SK side. Considering that SK has done the best job testing people, is not hiding any numbers, and is reporting what, 60? deaths I think we'll need to have a real conversation in two weeks or so about what level of economic and societal pain (and how long) we want to voluntarily choose. |
A HS friend and hard-core Trumper that's now a pharmacist posted a video on Facebook of Dr. Drew complaining that the media is overhyping the virus and that it's not that dangerous.
A lot of Trumpers are going to get sick just so that Donald's ego isn't burst. |
Here's a sobering graphic from Italy:
Italy Coronavirus: 15,113 Cases and 1,016 Deaths - Worldometer |
So, if Rudy Gobert doesn’t get the virus yesterday, do we still have all sports playing today? I think we do. I’m not saying it’s wrong either, it’s just crazy if you think about it.
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Italy is almost an inverse pyramid, so you would expect a higher mortality rate than other younger countries. |
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On the flip side, Trump is tweeting about how nice the Japanese Olympic construction is & how much Joe Biden messed up during the swine flu outbreak that killed 12,000 Americans... Please tell me why we should cancel everything for weeks & assume the government will actually find a solution in that time? If it's just "delay the spread" the disease will still be there in 7/14/30 days unless there is intensive testing & quarantining, and people will start asking why we're going through the voluntary hardships... |
It buys us time, which may allow us to figure out what we need to address somethings. Also, often as a virus spreads among a population the morbidity rate goes down since it is not beneficial for a virus to kill its host.
Also, for the record, our population pyramid is tower like, so we may have a lot of deaths due to sheer size of the country, but I would expect our death rate to be lower. |
From a former YL kid, 37 years old. Attorney. Kidney transplant maybe 6-9 months ago. Lives in the Savannah area. This was posted a few minutes ago. Several things in this jibe with what my pulmonologist friend indicated to us on Sunday. Funny how all of these anecdotes are so similar. It's almost as if we're seeing a pattern...
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I asked this too and the real answer is resources. If we slow the spread even a little bit across the country we can avoid the issue italy is seeing where dr's have to choose who gets a ventilator and who doesn't and dies. We have too few beds and ventilators to manage a massive short term peak, where as if we start segregating everyone apart NOW, we can flatten the curve and stay ahead of the resource battle. Without the beds and ventilators available the death rate triples or quadruples. With an infectious rate of 1.5-3.5 we cannot afford to let this thing get ahead of us. So as much as the cancellations and the travel bans and all that stuff is a pain in the ass and seems like overkill, its not, its just there to help us stay afloat so we can give the best possible treatment to every single patient that comes down with covid-19. |
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Yup, pretty much this. It buys time, allows for at least some of the needful steps to be taken (administration of hospital beds, maybe bringing some more , getting a reliable test in place and the infrastructure to support it, working on procedures and best practices, etc...). There's a good graph going around that shows the effects of flattening the impact on the health system vs having the peak hit mostly at once. I do wonder if this is finally the straw that breaks the camels back in terms of an honest debate about whether you can truly run a national health system for profit. Maybe that's wishful thinking, but if some of the decisions and fuck ups made so far and the impacts we'll be seeing over the next month and beyond don't make everyone stop and pause I'm not sure anything ever will. |
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I have to say even though I lean on the side this will be really bad, that's a misleading graphic. It really should have included the other one which the ongoing cases and the # of people who are critical vs in a mild condition. Presumably the vast majority if not all of those 11,686 in mild condition are going to survive, they are just symptomatic right now. And yeah, 1000 deaths is nothing to sneeze at, but it's obviously nowhere near a 45% mortality rate that graphic suggests. If you die from this you presumably die rather quickly whereas the recovery is at least 14 days. EDIT - also worth noting that the worldwide mild vs serious/critical % on ongoing cases (90/10) from that site is actually slightly worse than Italy (91/9), so I imagine that's another sign that the overall stats from Italy will normalize, and it's actually a pretty compelling argument for quarantining and avoiding large gatherings here - to avoid the huge peak that overwhelmed hospitals in Italy that led to so many deaths once the overall numbers got serious. |
also: they consider MILD to be "needs supplemental oxygen" in a lot of these
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And I'm good with a short term ban if I had any confidence there was a long term solution, but I don't even think there is a good plan in place let alone a solution. It seems like we're going to voluntarily go into a recession, shut down schools for 14-30 days etc, and my question is what happens when that initial period is over & Coronavirus is clearly still not contained, but also a very low mortality threat to anyone under 50? (Especially if our President & leadership is still focused on hiding cases instead of fixing it.) |
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Although Trump is a misogynistic megalomaniac, I do acknowledge credit where credit is due. I thought his January 31 directive to restrict travel from China (the source of the infection) was prudent, but he was accused by Pelosi and Biden as being "xenophobic". With that being said, I think that Trump's overall handling of the situation has been dismal. Opportunists from both parties are trying to score points with this crisis. I'm glad that I changed my registration to Libertarian in 2008. |
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Must be a whole lot of undetected cases in the U.S. judging by your death rates. Trump is delusional with his flight ban. Economy destruction for what? Based on death rates only France, Germany and Italy is worse off. Ban those countries by all means.
Trump is being exposed at this point for down playing cases. Number of deaths is the true indicator. Up to this point he performed better than I expected (very low expectations). Going forward it is pretty clear you guys can't trust a word he says. |
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These findings make no logical sense. China and SK have been hard but are now are coming through it. Yes it hit hard but not even 1% of the population let alone 40-70%. What are we missing here? 3200 deaths in China. Estimating 320,000 infected. Population 1.38 billion. On one hand there is complete denial on the other it appears huge exaggeration? |
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This seems like long term estimates. Like over 18 months. Its not over in China by any means. |
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There is a TON of misleading commentary out there. The thing I've noted from a couple different sources (Merkel's speech to Germany being the most recent) is that we're looking at something in the range of 70% total infection rate BEFORE this ends. And I'm using this as a worst case scenario. take that as pessimistic or optimistic, your choice. Getting ahead of that isn't just an option while we wait for a plan of action, its a requirement if the death rate isn't going to leap logarithmicly at that point. Buying time is the first best action we can take, time to build up supplies, time to prepare triage and treatment centers on a large scale and time, perhaps, for a vaccine to be discovered. Even if we're looking at a minimal 1% casualty rate, this country alone is looking at a possible number just under 3 MILLION dead. We have to slow this down if we're even going to have a chance. The infrastructure stress alone could destroy normal society as we've grown up knowing it. IF I have a heart attack during the peak I could be looking at a death notice instead of a week in the hospital and a quick surgery beacause of the heavy load already on the services. |
Okay makes sense. Much depends on a vaccine and how accessible it is for everyone I imagine. Sounds like a worse case scenario to me.
I am reading this site. Reports China have it well in hand for the moment. Coronavirus Update (Live): 134,930 Cases and 4,990 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer |
Planning to move my mom (70, COPD + heart disease, on oxygen) from my house to assisted living on Monday. Starting to wonder if that is a bad idea right now.
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Just can't see it. Economic meltdown quite possibly. But we will go all Italy on them before that happens. Shut everything and stay home for a month ftw. Not to say it won't be bad, but not THAT bad. We will see. |
I'm not in medicine or public policy, but the whole response is weird to me. Either we are over reacting or not reacting enough.
If schools are closing, why aren't they closing until next week? Why not immediately? Is this all just CYA behavior? A lot of things feel like that but then you see the situation in Italy and wonder why we aren't be more aggressive in our response. Overall it just leads to a bunch of confusion. |
Also, school closings aren't going to do anything unless everyone is told / forced to stay at home.
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Not picking on the poster or Ohio here by any means. In Michigan, we went from no cases two days ago to a dozen confirmed (as mentioned, yes I know there are really a lot more we don't know about) and shut down K-12 schools for three weeks as an initial measure. I work at a restaurant, and so this kind of thing makes me wonder: how much stuff are we really going to shut down? How much should we?? I don't know the answer. I do know that every night, the establishment I work at is a public gathering of over 100 people. Well over 200 if it's busy. I'm curious from those who are in areas where the virus has spread more if you have any observations about how the restaurant business is faring (or not). Is this keeping people in more? The business tends to incubate diseases like this so unless it's not nearly as contagious as people think it is I expect a lot of establishments to just not be able to operate before long. I'm not trying to make this about me or anything, a great many people will have it worse than I do, I'm just curious and looking for information. Panic is definitely starting to set in with some people and I see a lot on the extremes - i.e' 'chill it's just the flu' or 'the sky is falling' while I still remain in the middle. I'm going to be cautious, I've reached out to extended family to keep communication open, I'm not spending any money I don't have to in order to be as prepared as possible for increased prices, etc. but I think this is going to be a fascinating, as well as the obvious tragic aspects, moment in modern history. If nothing else, it sure shows how tenuous our hold on comfort and prosperity really is as a sobering matter. |
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Purely anecdotal, but last night me and a friend went to the local applebees. Our kids take an art class together and we usually drop them at the class then go over for s few cold ones. We were the only ones in the place last night at 5:30 on a thursday. |
And there goes the XFL season, I was really hoping to see that league succeed.
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Well guys, I'm still traveling and working, but the anxiety in the industry as this snowballs is substantial and escalating at a 9/11 pace.
I know that if the spread of the virus can be slowed to a constant pace, and it's enough for medical to manage, and we get past the initial explosion that it'll come back quick, but until then, we've all been through bad times before and nobody is ready to go back to that. |
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1. To give parents some notice. Families with younger children where all the adults in the home work have to figure this out. 2. To figure out distance learning options. Schools here aren't closed yet, but our district did a robocall survey last night asking if we had a laptop our kids can use, and internet access at home. 3. To avoid the appearance of panic. For reasons I mentioned in an earlier post, I believe elementary schools in particular are one of the worst things to leave open. However, saying "we're closed as of tomorrow" *could* do more harm than good. Quote:
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No infected officially yet in our suburbia town but everyone knows it's in GA. Still going to fast food places and went to a couple restaurants past couple weeks. Just my limited data point, there are emptier shelves but still long lines at CFA. My guess is the food business will inevitably take a hit and it will get worse before better. |
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Yup, pretty much this. |
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If you have a spare 30-45 minutes, I’d recommend watching Boris Johnson’s news conference yesterday, with his Chief Medical Officer and Chief Scientific Officer. They explained it very well IMHO, and although a different country, the principles should translate. |
My company was in the process of expanding our teleworking policy this week in response/preparation of the disease impact, but a positive case was just reported in the building where our Jacksonville satellite office is located. Now the urgency is increasing significantly. This is going to be interesting. Hope the employees in that office aren't in full blown panic mode while we walk through their options later this morning.
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I'm surprised there hasn't been a confirm case in my building. There have only been 13 cases confirmed in Indiana, but I work in a building with a 1500 person call center.
In my area alone, the people come from all corners of Indy including the area where there are 3 confirmed cases. It is just a matter of time. |
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This. And we have data from 1918 that suggests closing schools slows transmission. |
For Fulton County, we still came in today, which was already a planned teacher workday. We're using the day to assign students weekly internet assignments.
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Two cases now confirmed in Austin
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A friend of mine works at the school district office and gave me a behind the scenes view of a local story.
Background: We have been getting email and phone updates for the last three weeks or so telling us the district is working with the Health Dept., there are no confirmed cases etc. They have engaged a few parents with questions about the virus, school plans and such but it was on par with parents concerned with food allergies. Pretty normal stuff. Then this happened https://www.fox13news.com/news/farne...avirus-patient To quote my friend, "You would have thought we dump the virus in the fire sprinkler system and spray the kids with it." More than 1200 phone calls asking among other things: Is the district going to refund the cost of testing/medical treaments? Why are visitors being allowed in the school without being vetted? They also took the buses that serve that school out of service to be deep cleaned. If that is what happens for this pretty benign case given all we know about how it does or does not affect children, I can't imagine what would happen if there was an actual confirmed case of a student. I understand why they would close schools. |
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I am going to avoid most restaurants at all costs. When there is an epidemic, I'm going to avoid the places where potentially unhygienic people are touching my food, let alone people who are more likely to work sick because they need the money. No danke! I would imagine most restaurants will have to temporarily close over the next few weeks and then apply for bailouts. |
Good series of tweets on collected info we have. |
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Shurg, tl;dr I think the government & public was underestimating the threat before, but I think the pendulum has swung too far. And I get why people are throwing around #'s like 3 million deaths, but I would guess we end up 2 orders of magnitude lower with deaths in the 30,000 range, which is still very bad but not cataclysmic. |
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While this definitely needs to be considered, it is 100 year old data, from a very different society without anywhere near the same level of domestic or international travel. The data differs so wildly now within a 3-month period between China, South Korea, Iran, Italy all being very different and at least as relevant. I am not a medical expert, and I’m definitely in the group that says follow the official advice of those who are. In the UK this type of anyalsis shows why data from a month ago may not be as relevant as it may appear, let alone 100 years ago... Coronavirus: Three reasons why the UK might not look like Italy - BBC News |
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I do wonder how relevant 1918 data is to current society. In 1918 what % of population owned a car? What % went to "town" more than every couple weeks? Closing school might have largely eliminated social gathering, today not so much. |
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#4 - the cheek kissing thing |
Credit where it's due... this guy is acting like the adult in the room
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Maybe the school closings don't help much, but why wouldn't we try that given the information we have?
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Any of the other candidates in 2016 would have handled this better than Trump. |
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To be clear, I'm not against the closings. I was just curious why they aren't immediate. I am, however, against the idiot parents that are already setting up mass playdates, etc. |
Masters PPD.
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Meanwhile, Bolsonaro has tested positive. No word on Trump or Pence even being tested. |
So is it just the Bundesliga and Liga Mx left as far as sports goes?
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UFC and Bellator are still planning empty arena shows this weekend. |
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It’s a long watch, but informative Coronavirus: Boris Johnson holds press conference after Cobra meeting – watch in full - YouTube |
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There will likely be a lot of kids going to each others houses because parents have to work. I'm a stay at home dad, and as of now our schools are still open. If they close I want to reach out to close friends and offer them the choice to bring their kids here so they can go to work but leery to do so. It is a hard balance between being a good friend and being cautious. |
Archdiocese of Cincinnati has just sent out a note that while masses will still be held, you do not need to attend Sunday mass through March 29th. Not sure I have ever heard of that before.
Also, if you are sick, you are specifically asked to not attend. |
The latest casualty:
British KFCs have suspended their "Finger lickin good" campaigns. |
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Well they did the right thing and postponed the wedding. |
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IndyCar, Nascar, and Australian Football are all on too. |
Observations upon my return from the local Publix.
1. A bit more crowded than usual but nowhere near as crowded as hurricane prep time. 2. An older lady demanded that she wipe down the cart handle before she would allow me to take back her cart for her. She had just finished sanitizing her hands 3. Sandwich line was empty. As in I could have walked straight up and ordered. I have never seen that before after 11am 4. Still no TP, hand sanitizer and alcohol wipes. Plenty of Bounty paper towels. I am assuming they just got a shipment in or else people hate Bounty. 5. Message to the guy who on Monday was ripping the Little League for being "snowflakes" after the banning of high fives in the "good game" line. YOU can't be the guy now requesting to bump elbows as a greeting! 5. Passed by McDonald's on the way. Parking lot and drive thru pretty empty for this time of day. |
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Or they are the Chosen Ones |
Malcolm Gladwell made an interesting point today. Basically, each flu has thousands of strains and the weaker ones usually win out over time. If someone catches a stronger strain, chances are they are bed ridden and not coming into contact with a bunch of people. If you have a weaker strain, you are probably still going to work and passing that on. So, it makes sense that the virus' impact will weaken over time as the weaker strains propagate. With that in mind, taking these initial steps may not just widen the curve - but may also reduce the potency of the virus to a point where the death rates also decrease.
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But now Brazil is saying Bolsonaro tested negative.
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Someone got in the Bundesliga's ear, they are done now. |
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He has not completed his work. The Trump Prophecy - Wikipedia Pence is probably fucked though, there's no divine plan for him. |
Hard to believe, but Ted Cruz is saying and doing all the right things. |
In Spain, the president, who was unreacheable for the last 15 days has just decreted the state of alarm.
Our cabinet is full of outright commies, as a result of the alliance between socialdemocrats and communists (plus separatists of several regions united for their hate for the spanish nation). The socialdemocrats have gone nuts the last 10-12 years, with the former president flying to Venezuela 40 times over the last two years and the current being even more radical, in addition of a pathological liar and a undercover sociopath tyrant. Last Sunday thousands tooked the streets because of a feminist demonstration while the government was spreading false data on purpose in order to prevent people from missing the demonstration. There is a clip over there showing the Minister of Equality, who was tested positive a couple of days later, coughing over an attendant's face. They traded public health for agit prop not suspending the gatherings, with commies and socialdemocrats stabbing each other on the back trying to gain momentum through ideologic matters. Just saying this because we have already taken the same highway that Italy took 3 weeks ago or so. We are still trailing by a mile but travelling in a rocket instead of a Ferrari. We just gone from 500 to 4500 positives (plus +120 deaths) in 5 days while the government did nothing until today. This is getting quite serious over here. It is the only topic of conversation in Spain right now. |
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I think it's the beard. He's much more sensible and handsome these days. |
Man. The city I live in just cancelled all city activities until 4/3. This includes Breakfast With a Leprechaun. Now I'm pissed!
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I was not sure if CNET was one of the sites that would should not link to so I just copied and pasted the whole article.
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In 2020, many families have two working parents. So, aren't we just trading a 25-kid kindergarten class for a 25-kid day care room? I'm not sure this will slow it down as much as people think. |
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Ted Cruz is also smart--smart enough to understand where this is headed. After things go terribly, being the conservative Republican who said and did all the right things could help him tremendously as his Party attempts to recover/rebuild. Numerous conservative pundits and publications are starting to grumble about the administration's response--not just NeverTrumpers, but some who have been complete bootlickers up to now. My guess is that he's angling for stature among that group. |
I believe the Ohio numbers. Just because someone is infected doesn't mean they are symptomatic. There are likely a ton of people exposed / infected at this point. The curve is going to start ramping up pretty soon.
They just scheduled me for an outpatient procedure on April 3. That is right around the time I would expect the shit to hit the fan here, so it should be interesting. |
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