Front Office Football Central

Front Office Football Central (http://forums.operationsports.com/fofc//index.php)
-   Off Topic (http://forums.operationsports.com/fofc//forumdisplay.php?f=6)
-   -   Yet another school shooting. (http://forums.operationsports.com/fofc//showthread.php?t=90787)

RomaGoth 10-01-2015 02:34 PM

Yet another school shooting.
 
Oregon cops respond to report of shooter at community college | Fox News

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/01/us/ore...ing/index.html



I really want this shit to end already. :(

GoldenEagle 10-01-2015 02:36 PM

Damn.

Seeing reports of anywhere from 10-12 killed.

panerd 10-01-2015 03:23 PM

Yeah so senseless. Not that I see sense in a killing spree of people you hate or that have "wronged you" either but I just can't imagine what is going on in your mind when you just kill random people.

JonInMiddleGA 10-01-2015 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 3056908)
I just can't imagine what is going on in your mind when you just kill random people.


Let's see how "random" it actually was before we get too deeply into that.
I mean, typically, it isn't truly random at all.

RomaGoth 10-01-2015 05:21 PM

From CNN:


Quote:

No police officers were injured, but preliminary information indicates 10 people were killed and more than 20 others injured in the shooting, according to Oregon State Police spokesman Bill Fugate.

Quote:

Investigators are examining social media postings they believe were made by the suspect, according to a source with knowledge of the investigation.

The night before the attack, the alleged shooter appears to have had a conversation with others online about his intentions, the source said.

molson 10-01-2015 05:28 PM

It's vague and doesn't prove identity on its own, but here's the online exchange from last night on - you guessed it, 4Chan. Other posters were actually encouraging him and giving him advice about how to kill more people.

https://i.imgur.com/F90JrJW.jpg

RomaGoth 10-01-2015 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 3056923)
It's vague and doesn't prove identity on its own, but here's the online exchange from last night on - you guessed it, 4Chan. Other posters were actually encouraging him and giving him advice about how to kill more people.

https://i.imgur.com/F90JrJW.jpg


So many fucked up deranged people out there hiding behind a keyboard. Is it getting to the point where we are afraid to leave our homes? Or, should we go on about our lives like normal because they WANT us to be afraid?

molson 10-01-2015 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomaGoth (Post 3056927)
So many fucked up deranged people out there hiding behind a keyboard. Is it getting to the point where we are afraid to leave our homes? Or, should we go on about our lives like normal because they WANT us to be afraid?


There's much more risk of dying in a car accident or eating bad foods (and a million other things) than there is being killed by a someone randomly.

There's certain dangers and causes of death that our brains have trouble rationally processing the risk of (see the Ebola thread).

JonInMiddleGA 10-01-2015 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 3056923)
It's vague and doesn't prove identity on its own, but here's the online exchange from last night on - you guessed it, 4Chan. Other posters were actually encouraging him and giving him advice about how to kill more people.

https://i.imgur.com/F90JrJW.jpg


Chilling shit IF it does turn out to be connected.

As an aside, I'm not sure I would have guessed 4Chan off the top of my head. Not sure what site/platform I would have guessed if you'd asked me but it didn't immediately leap to mind or anything. I suspect that's just a sign that I'm rather old. (My 17 y/o, when told of the possible link, simply said "of course it was")

JonInMiddleGA 10-01-2015 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomaGoth (Post 3056927)
So many fucked up deranged people out there hiding behind a keyboard. Is it getting to the point where we are afraid to leave our homes? Or, should we go on about our lives like normal because they WANT us to be afraid?


The 4chan discussion really didn't strike me as being about fear tbh. Cry for help, cheap thrill, delusions of grandeur ... but I don't get much sense that it was about scaring anybody per se.

Alf 10-01-2015 05:51 PM

:popcorn:

Another pro-gun vs anti-gun thread, I suppose. Seeing it from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, those are still a mistery to me.

RomaGoth 10-01-2015 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 3056928)
There's much more risk of dying in a car accident or eating bad foods (and a million other things) than there is being killed by a someone randomly.

There's certain dangers and causes of death that our brains have trouble rationally processing the risk of (see the Ebola thread).


Yeah I get that, but the media loves to shock the public with this stuff. I was more or less just wondering out loud how people are reacting to these incidents.

Move theaters, schools, malls....before Columbine I never thought about something like this happening when I went somewhere. Now, especially with kids, I hesitate a little and wonder if it is worth it anymore.

RomaGoth 10-01-2015 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alf (Post 3056933)
:popcorn:

Another pro-gun vs anti-gun thread, I suppose. Seeing it from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, those are still a mistery to me.


Nope, none of that, at least here. Although, I think you mean "mystery", right? ;)

Solecismic 10-01-2015 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alf (Post 3056933)
:popcorn:

Another pro-gun vs anti-gun thread, I suppose. Seeing it from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, those are still a mistery to me.


Not really. The Charlie Hebdo attack was probably scarier because it was so organized and the target (free speech) something we can easily identify with. Certainly stricter gun laws aren't a panacea.

It's sad when people who want to die think there's value in taking others with them.

Grover 10-01-2015 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alf (Post 3056933)
:popcorn:

Another pro-gun vs anti-gun thread, I suppose. Seeing it from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, those are still a mistery to me.


Really hope this thread doesn't turn into it. Just turns into mudslinging on either side with nothing ever being discussed rationally. No one ever wants to meet in the middle on the issue unfortunately

RomaGoth 10-01-2015 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic (Post 3056937)
It's sad when people who want to die think there's value in taking others with them.


So true. Can't help but make the connection with radical Islam either. I have nothing that verifies this shooting did or didn't have anything to do with jihad, but in my opinion the concept you bring up is a sickness that seems to be empowered each time we see it on tv. Guns just happen to be the tool these people use to permeate their distorted views of the world.

RainMaker 10-01-2015 06:40 PM

Is there any confirmation on the 4chan stuff? News agencies are sort of reporting it but that shit is pretty common on 4chan.

nol 10-01-2015 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3056946)
Is there any confirmation on the 4chan stuff? News agencies are sort of reporting it but that shit is pretty common on 4chan.


This explains a lot.

Dutch 10-01-2015 07:57 PM

I don't even know what 4chan is...and now I never do.

Neon_Chaos 10-01-2015 09:34 PM

It's sad how America is the one advanced country where this happens again and again and again and again.

Dutch 10-01-2015 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos (Post 3056974)
It's sad how America is the one advanced country where this happens again and again and again and again.


Who said we were all advanced?

molson 10-02-2015 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch (Post 3056951)
I don't even know what 4chan is...and now I never do.


I had to go to urban dictionary to look up what "beta uprising" meant. That's apparently a buzz word that's going around the 4Chan shooting threads to the extent that CNN talked about it today. I guess their spiritual leader is that rich douchebag that shot a bunch of women in California because he couldn't get laid.

flere-imsaho 10-02-2015 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic (Post 3056937)
Certainly stricter gun laws aren't a panacea.


I don't need a panacea. Some progress would be nice, though.

Alf 10-02-2015 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic (Post 3056937)
It's sad when people who want to die think there's value in taking others with them.


Yes, I can't disagree with that.

Galaril 10-02-2015 10:53 AM

I got this off my girlfriends Fb feed. She is an elementary school teacher and says she goes through the locked drills regular which adds to her worry about this happening someday. I was blown away at the volume of these incidence just in the last 2 1/2 years.

http://www.vox.com/a/mass-shootings-sandy-hook

BishopMVP 10-02-2015 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos (Post 3056974)
It's sad how America is the one advanced country where this happens again and again and again and again.

The breathless national media coverage of each and every one not only makes it seem like a choice that many other have made, but also provides an incentive to many cowards who feel like girls won't talk to them, or their viewpoint isn't being heard. http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/02/health...illings-study/

That's far from the only problem, and it wouldn't make them go away, but I have zero doubt that media coverage and the glorification of the shooters does increase the chances of another one. It's been a while since I read it, but the Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell had a chapter where he talked about how certain things can turn into a cultural epidemic because young/immature people start thinking society expects them to do a certain thing. And there's clearly no stopping the parasitic media from putting ratings above people's safety.



Grover 10-02-2015 11:42 AM

How else is the media supposed to respond to someone posting a tweet about this? She obviously felt safe enough to send out the original tweet.

EDIT: I agree that the media (CABLE NEWS) is part of the problem in the obsessive coverage, but at the same time, they're merely delivering what gives them ratings. They get more eyeballs from crap like this, so they're going to push it.

BishopMVP 10-02-2015 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grover (Post 3057054)
How else is the media supposed to respond to someone posting a tweet about this? She obviously felt safe enough to send out the original tweet.

I'd hope they would show some decorum, but clearly that's gone out the window in favor of getting the story first. There's also a chance she sent out the tweet hoping it might be useful information to followers or people who could conceivably be affected by the ongoing situation, not so that parasites 3000 miles away could use it for a cheap ratings boost. I'd even be a little more understanding if it was only national stations or Oregon ones, but why are local New York or Wisconsin affiliates desperately trying to get an on the ground interview?

I grew up in a great town outside Boston, continue to work at the HS, and I've seen multiple news vans three times. Twice when a pedestrian was struck and killed, once when a HS student committed suicide (occasionally one will show up for a particularly contentious town vote or a big sports game). For the last one I helped the administration throw reporters off campus because they were cornering crying teenagers, then watched them set up their cameras 10 feet off it so they could have our school as a nice backdrop while giving their report and try to interview any student walking past. They're leeches feeding off the pain and misery of others, and the 24 hour news cycle has only made it worse. I understand how ratings work, how freedom of speech works, and that the real problem is the large percentage of people who secretly love hearing about things like this as they complain about it, but I'm going to actively oppose them when I can't avoid them. I hate that I know the names and faces of Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Adam Lanza, Dylan Roof etc, and I'm sure I'll be bombarded with the name and face of this cowardly douchebag on the wall of TV's at the gym later.

I don't want complete media censorship or silence on events like this, but they long ago crossed the line between respectful reporting and fetishization and glorification of the psychos. I don't have a good answer for how to walk it back and cut down on the cycle, but maybe calling them out on their bullshit and making them feel a little ashamed helps just a little.

JonInMiddleGA 10-02-2015 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP (Post 3057062)
I don't have a good answer for how to walk it back and cut down on the cycle, but maybe calling them out on their bullshit and making them feel a little ashamed helps just a little.


As opposed to calling out the people who watch it all and want even more?

Media responds to demand, because demand = revenue.

I have specific questions about the case I happened to be interested in. Who was the guy, what was his basic motivation, what's the general backstory here (bad relationship? bad grade? utterly random?), and yes I was curious to know the number & type of weapons involved. And that's probably about it. I've managed to satisfy that interest with 15-20 minutes worth of reading since the details started to emerge, no need to Google any of it, it's all been touched upon in stories that readily came into my view from a headline aggregator site. I've seen exactly zero seconds of TV coverage of any kind.

Wanna bet there's a (small) ratings spike for cable news last night though? Or what a leading #hashtag yesterday was? Point being that I don't have to be part of the demand to recognize that it exists.

Pointing the finger at the media instead of the viewing public is a mistake afaic.

molson 10-02-2015 01:14 PM

We take it for granted but reporters are how we get news about what happened, and even historical documentation about what happened. It can be a really dirty job in the trenches, but I understand why people want to know about major events. I was in a reddit thread yesterday where people were simultaneously complaining about "parasite" reporters and jumping all over every new little news tidbit. Where do they think those tidbits come from?

BishopMVP 10-02-2015 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 3057067)
As opposed to calling out the people who watch it all and want even more?

You of all people show know disdain can be directed at more than one group at a time. ;) And in fact I did make a point to mention the hypocrites who decry it while secretly driving the demand.
Quote:

Media responds to demand, because demand = revenue.

I have specific questions about the case I happened to be interested in. Who was the guy, what was his basic motivation, what's the general backstory here (bad relationship? bad grade? utterly random?), and yes I was curious to know the number & type of weapons involved. And that's probably about it. I've managed to satisfy that interest with 15-20 minutes worth of reading since the details started to emerge, no need to Google any of it, it's all been touched upon in stories that readily came into my view from a headline aggregator site. I've seen exactly zero seconds of TV coverage of any kind.

Wanna bet there's a (small) ratings spike for cable news last night though? Or what a leading #hashtag yesterday was? Point being that I don't have to be part of the demand to recognize that it exists.

Pointing the finger at the media instead of the viewing public is a mistake afaic.
I don't have any problem with going to read a story on it - I usually end up doing that once with these stories for the same reasons you do. I have a problem with wall to wall coverage that pushes it into peoples faces, with affiliates 3000 miles away all trying to break news instead of just having the national team do it and using their information or the reporting from the local station when they feel it necessary to talk about it on the nightly news, and most importantly with people glorifying it to either push an agenda or make money.

Honest question here - if the TV media all agreed at least not to show the pictures of the people who did this and made it something you actually had to search for on message boards and in darker corners of the web, like when a horrific video like a beheading comes out, do you agree it would reduce the chances of at least one of these attacks? If yes, at what point does that start to have more value than some people's need for details? This isn't something the media is unaware of - I actually saw the link to that CNN story yesterday with a February publish date, and it was updated today so it would show up on their front page feed.

JonInMiddleGA 10-02-2015 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP (Post 3057082)
I have a problem with wall to wall coverage that pushes it into peoples faces, with affiliates 3000 miles away all trying to break news instead of just having the national team do it



Those folks are just trying to make a living like the rest of us. More than one career has been made by simply being the person who got something everybody else didn't. I get the pressure, I get the motivation, I can't blame 'em for it.

Quote:

Honest question here - if the TV media all agreed at least not to show the pictures of the people who did this and made it something you actually had to search for on message boards and in darker corners of the web, like when a horrific video like a beheading comes out, do you agree it would reduce the chances of at least one of these attacks?

No, not really. Not in a meaningful amount (i.e. some tiny fractional percentage maybe). Those who seek attention would likely go bigger to force the media's hand -- "ignore THIS" basically -- that ship has sailed already.


Quote:

If yes, at what point does that start to have more value than some people's need for details?

If it's public record or legally obtained ... pretty much only on matters of national security afaic.

ISiddiqui 10-02-2015 03:05 PM

Oregon shooter said to have singled out Christians for killing in ‘horrific act of cowardice’ - The Washington Post

Quote:

In one classroom, he appeared to single out Christian students for killing, according to witness Anastasia Boylan.

“He said, ‘Good, because you’re a Christian, you’re going to see God in just about one second,'” Boylan’s father, Stacy, told CNN, relaying his daughter’s account while she underwent surgery to treat a gunshot to her spine.

“And then he shot and killed them.”

Another account came from Autumn Vicari, who described to NBC News what her brother J.J. witnessed in the room where the shootings occurred. According to NBC: “Vicari said at one point the shooter told people to stand up before asking whether they were Christian or not. Vicari’s brother told her that anyone who responded ‘yes’ was shot in the head. If they said ‘other’ or didn’t answer, they were shot elsewhere in the body, usually the leg.”

:(

Kodos 10-02-2015 03:27 PM

Awful. Awful stuff.

RainMaker 10-02-2015 04:02 PM

I know everyone talks about guns and so forth but it does seem like a lot of these people are complete losers who realize this is the easiest way to get their message out. Like the guy even said this before the shooting.

I don't know how to change that either. The media is going to report on what the public wants. Maybe the answer is that these become so common that none of these shooters stand out anymore.

RainMaker 10-02-2015 04:05 PM

I also thought the President's statement was good. But I really wish he would tell us what he wants done. Like give a policy change you want and tell the public to push for it with their representatives.

stevew 10-02-2015 05:15 PM

Sounds like this guy had a bunch of red flags, but of course nobody took 2 craps of care in his direction. It seems like the only way for this crap to be prevented is for more human to human interaction in person.

In lieu of that, I think advancements in sexbots will tone down a ton of the male angst that leads to this sort of thing. And I know this statement sounds dumb but distraction probably helps to put minds at ease

RainMaker 10-02-2015 05:36 PM

I wonder how much social media and this sort of narcissistic society plays a role in this. There is so much desperation from people online for attention. I mean I like aspects of social media but it is bizarre to see people obsessively tweeting photos of what they have for dinner to their 6 followers.

Obviously there are deeper issues at play but some of this feels like people who are so desperate for attention that they will do unspeakable acts just to get their rants in front of people.

Galaril 10-02-2015 05:36 PM


I frankly don't know that it matters that he was killing Christians. Whether someone was/is a Christian it shouldn't matter. Right?

Galaril 10-02-2015 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3057106)
I know everyone talks about guns and so forth but it does seem like a lot of these people are complete losers who realize this is the easiest way to get their message out. Like the guy even said this before the shooting.
.


At the risk of turning this into a pro gun vs anti gun thing.... They are complete losers and not much we can do to stop them from murder but I think we could at least act like we want to cut down on the sheer volume of these killings. I am not smart enough to say what that is but got to be something more than just say "fuck shit happens!":-(

RainMaker 10-02-2015 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaril (Post 3057128)
At the risk of turning this into a pot gun vs anti gun thing.... They are complete losers and not much we can do to stop them from murder but I think we could at least act like we want to cut down on the sheer volume of these killings. I am not smart enough to say what that is but got to be something more than just say "fuck shit happens!":-(


Well it is true that this happens in our country at a disproportionate rate compared to other first world countries. So the "shit happens" doesn't make much sense because it doesn't happen elsewhere.

The question is why though. Is it lax gun laws? Is it our culture? Is it lack of mental health? I don't know. But I do think it's a topic we should be trying to figure out an answer to. Why the hell is our country so much different from the rest of the world?

JonInMiddleGA 10-02-2015 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaril (Post 3057126)
I frankly don't know that it matters why he was killing people. Whether someone was/is a Christian it shouldn't matter. Right?


Seems fair to note the motivation though. I mean, it's included as part of other stories so why not this one too, y'know?

JonInMiddleGA 10-02-2015 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaril (Post 3057128)
At the risk of turning this into a pot gun vs anti gun thing


Pot guns? I knew drugs were insidious but DAMN.

The alignment shifts that would create, my head spins.

;)

JonInMiddleGA 10-02-2015 06:02 PM

Odd little tidbit I've seen in several articles today

Quote:

A neighbor, Bronte Harte, said Harper-Mercer "seemed really unfriendly" and would "sit by himself in the dark in the balcony with this little light."

Now it's quite possible that it was some sort of light I suppose ... but my first thought was "think maybe it was his phone?"

edit: this relates to how we always seem to hear little quotes after incidents but we're really lacking context even then

Galaril 10-02-2015 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 3057133)
Pot guns? I knew drugs were insidious but DAMN.

The alignment shifts that would create, my head spins.

;)


Haha thanks I fixed that:-)

Galaril 10-02-2015 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 3057131)
Seems fair to note the motivation though. I mean, it's included as part of other stories so why not this one too, y'know?


Sure. But doesn't change anything.

Galaril 10-02-2015 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3057130)
Well it is true that this happens in our country at a disproportionate rate compared to other first world countries. So the "shit happens" doesn't make much sense because it doesn't happen elsewhere.

The question is why though. Is it lax gun laws? Is it our culture? Is it lack of mental health? I don't know. But I do think it's a topic we should be trying to figure out an answer to. Why the hell is our country so much different from the rest of the world?


Well that didn't take long for a politician to say it:-)...Jeb Bush Says 'Stuff Happens' In Response to Gun Violence - Yahoo

JonInMiddleGA 10-02-2015 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaril (Post 3057140)
Sure. But doesn't change anything.


I haven't seen -- here nor even in my own social sphere -- a single person suggest that it does.

I'll guarantee that SOMEWHERE either of us could easily find some narrative that spins this as an assault on Christians (indeed, I did see one 9th tier blog post that referred to the shooter as a Muslim, everything I've seen elsewhere suggests that he was more an atheist than anything) but on the whole, that really doesn't seem to be something getting any traction at all.

Galaril 10-02-2015 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA (Post 3057144)
I haven't seen -- here nor even in my own social sphere -- a single person suggest that it does.

I'll guarantee that SOMEWHERE either of us could easily find some narrative that spins this as an assault on Christians (indeed, I did see one 9th tier blog post that referred to the shooter as a Muslim, everything I've seen elsewhere suggests that he was more an atheist than anything) but on the whole, that really doesn't seem to be something getting any traction at all.



Good point and I have not seen it either yet.

Izulde 10-02-2015 08:37 PM

Yeah, when my boss asked me about the Christian thing, I said he was probably atheist, just based on the details I'd heard/read (4chan being a huge indicator IMO).


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:02 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.