2013 Baseball HOF Voting
 

This year is arguably the most intriguing baseball Hall of Fame ballot ever, with many big name first timers. Screw the BBWAA - let's declare the FOFC the new authority for HOF determination.

Same rules apply: Voters are instructed to cast votes for up to 10 candidates; any candidate who receives votes on at least 75% of the ballots will be honored with induction to the Hall

Voting to close on 12/18 2:20PM EST.

From Baseball Reference (Baseball Reference HOF summary page )

I voted for Bonds and Clemens and not for McGwire and Sosa. Reasoning behind that is that I think the former two guys were easily good enough before/without the steroids and the latter two, I'm not sure about.

Other than that - Raines, Biggio and Piazza get in. Two of arguably the best at their position all time and Raines is probably only second to Rickey Henderson as the premier speed guy of his era.

Same as above with the steroids guys. If you want to put something on their plaques re: PEDs, go ahead.

Inducted ever or inducted this year?

I wouldn't vote for Clemens (fucker) or Bonds this year, but think they probably both need to be in there sometime in the next decade or so.

By the time he gets to the Veterans Committee, will there be enough veterans who have hit game winning home runs off of Jose Mesa to vote him in for his generosity to the game?

SI

I don't know, according to modern statistical metrics that summarize HOF induction likelihood, Mesa apparently has a better shot than Tim Raines and only a slightly worse shot than Jack Morris.

Voting is based on induction for this year.

(Keep in mind the world might end, you might die, or you might get kicked out of the FOFC-BBWAA before next year's ballot, so make sure your vote counts while you have the chance.)

Morris is the only one on the list I actually would vote for.

It's the Hall of Fame, not the "Hall of Was Almost As Good As Dave Stieb".

I would absolutely visit that HOF. I can only imagine its somewhere in rural Ontario?

Really? Jack Morris, who never one a Cy Young, ERA trophy, and only lead the league in stikeouts once in his career?

Jack Morris is a shoe in for me.
I also voted, McGwire, Bonds, Clemens, Piazza, Raines, L. Smith, Murphy and Schilling.

I missed Biggio or I would have voted for him, as well.

Someone explain the Jack Morris love for me? I liked Jack Morris the player, but his stats really don't really do anything for me for HoF voting.

Morris, Lee Smith, Raines, Trammell, Edgar

I bet the real vote is going to end up a lot like this one - there's a bunch of viable candidates that are going to spread the vote pretty thin, since most people only vote for a handful of guys. It might be a class of 0 or 1.

i laugh at those who think 'roiders will get voted in 1st ballot.

nelson laugh HA HA /nelson laugh

Bagwell should be in, Biggio should be in, Raines should be in, Clemens, Piazza, Bonds all in. I don't know how you can justify keeping these guys out. Are they going to disqualify everyone from 90s-00s era? A guy like McGwire just has HRs so I can see keeping him out. Bonds and Clemens should easily be in. Bagwell and Piazza don't have much against them except speculation.

He was widely regarded as the best pitcher of the 80s by many people? Im sure stats don't bear this out at all, but it explains why he might get into the HOF.

It said who should be elected to the HoF, not "who do you think" will get voted in.

I think that Dale Murphy and Lee Smith(among others) will get in via the veterans committee some day.

How does Bonds and Clemens get so many votes but Sosa doesn't?

It's like any other crime, you only get punished if you get caught, that's the risk. The fact that you can't catch every thief, murderer, etc, doesn't mean you shouldn't punish the ones you do catch.

So it's kind of a mess but it's one players brought about themselves. They fought against drug testing forever, they chose for the waters to be muddied, so they get to stand and be judged by sportswriters instead of drug tests. Their choice.

I would have taken Herhiser over Morris any day if we're talking 1980s. I'm amazed Hershiser never got more votes. I never expected him to get in but couldn't believe he was off the ballot after two tries.

Well done YD!

Bonds and Clemens were great players before people think they started in on the roids. Sosa didnt really become a great player until many feel he started in on the roids.

Of course its all speculation.

Schilling will be an interesting vote - his playoff numbers are really good, and it wasn't just a couple of games, it was 19 starts, which included some really big, historically noteworthy games. And there's no steroid suspicion, which probably gives guys something of a bonus now. And 3,000+ Ks, reaching which has been a 100% lock until possibly Clemens and Schilling this year.

I voted for Larry Walker for no good reason other than that I really liked him.

Dola...

I'm going to start a Hall of People Drake Likes. It'll have Larry Walker, Nomar Garciaparra, Reggie Miller, Jim Harbaugh, Hoosier PG Michael Lewis, and Amy Adams in it. And Neal Stephenson. And maybe Quiksand.

:D

Todd Walker? Really, Todd Walker?
And of course he will get a vote by someone.:confused:

Voted for Bagwell, Biggio, Trammell, Raines, Piazza, Bonds, Clemens, Murphy and Schilling.

Because even statistically his HoF case is rather borderline.

Markus told me that clutch doesn't exist and that's why OOTP doesn't have it and why star players are so shitty in the post-season. So I can't vote for Schilling since he doesn't exist.

That, plus apparently for some voters Game 7 of the '91 World Series was worth 100 career wins.

First, on the roids thing. If you don't want to risk voting anyone in who may have done roaids, then you shouldn't vote for ANYONE in this era because you simply have no idea who was doing what. You don't know, can't know and shouldn't presume. So be consistent - vote for 'em all or none. Take your pick, but don't be a pussy trying to convict one guy while excusing your favorite player. Ken Caminitti said more than half were doing it and there's no reason to doubt him. Canseco may be an ass, but pretty much everything out of his mouth concerning roids has been proven true and his number was higher. So give up the crusade or vote for none, there can be no logical middle ground.

My votes are broken down as follows:

The No-Brainers:
Bonds
Clemens
Piazza

These guys have to be first ballot, no matter how much you like or dislike them. An all-time top 5 hitter, an all-time top 5 pitcher and the all-time best hitting catcher.

The Closer Inspections:
Biggio - 62 WAR + 3,000 hits gets you in the door.
Bagwell - 77 WAR should be automatic, but how did this guy only play in 4 All-Star games? Because he wasn't thought of as highly as his peers. But his peak was amazing and he passes the sniff test for me.
Schilling - Win totals put aside, this guy was a dominant pitcher of his era. A workhorse who has the best K/BB ratio of all time, he was no doubt a top starter. If he's iffy, then consider his postseason stats and he gets the nod.


Now that was my ballot for this year. Guys I'd entertain in the future - The Wait Until Next Years

Tim Raines - A great leadoff hitter with a 66 WAR. Perhaps the 2nd best base stealer in the modern era. Borderline, but he probably get my vote (but not in this class)...

Kenny Lofton - ...unlike Lofton, who probably doesn't.

Sosa - It's not the 'roids. It's the numbers. Good, but gaudy HR totals aren't all that impressive from that era (whether it be juiced players or balls or ballparks or all 3). He was a one-trick pony. It was a helluva trick, but one I'd like to contemplate a bit more on and see how his peers shake out. He probably gets a vote from me in the future...

McGwire - ...unlike Big Mac, whose injuries derailed him too much.

Larry Walker - I loved watching this guy play and he put up some great statistics. But a lot of that was due to the absurdity of Coors Field. His Away OPS is 200 points lower than his home one. He's a .278 hitter on the road and .348 at home. Probably not.


And who the fuck voted for Jeff Cirillo, Sandy (not Roberto) Alomar and Jose Mesa?

I don't actually believe Cirillo should get in. But I figured for the purposes of such a serious poll with far reaching implications, I'd throw one of my favorite Brewers of the 90's (slim pickings there) a bone.

it's a wonder anyone ever gets elected to the HOF. 75% is a pretty tough threshold to meet. it will be interesting to watch this year if the pro-roiders and anti-roiders (plus the random cirillo fanboys) cancel each other out and 0 get selected.

Morris is the romantic view of what a pitcher should be. He took the ball every fourth or fifth day for about 15 years, threw a lot of complete games, has the no-hitter and rings, was clutch for a couple of World Series champions and has a couple of marquee wins -- 1991 World Series and throwing a national televised no-hitter. And even though he won a championship with Detroit, for most of his career in D-town they were a pretty crummy team.

I get younger fans who don't get the Morris mystique because you had to watch Morris to understand his value.

That said, I'm surprised more stat heads don't jump on Morris because he illustrates the importance of a couple of key metrics. If Morris left the game after six innings like he was Pedro Martinez rather than throwing a 120 pitches every night, his stats would look a lot better.

We're a tough group. I'll bet almost to a tee that everyone will get a higher percentage from the real voters than us, except for perhaps some of the PED cases. I can't see Bonds and Clemens getting even 2/3 of the vote.

Three guys who should be in and it's a shame two of them are not: Biggio, Lee Smith and Raines. No one with more hits than Biggio, more saves that Smith or more stolen bases than Raines eligible for the Hall of Fame is not in. Again, based on today's metrics, Raines is arguably the greatest base stealer of all time. Not only does he have the fifth most steals, he also was successful about 85% of the time, which is absolutely ridiculous.

My cutoff guy is Fred McGriff. I really want to vote McGriff because I always liked him as a player and he was so freaking reliable. But he spent too much of his career post-'95, which means you have to assign a "juiced ball" era discount. I don't think McGriff juiced, but all offense post-strike is suspect to a certain percentage. If McGriff had just a few more of everything, it would be easy.

You could argue that the 1994 shutdown cost McGriff a spot in the Hall of Fame. 500 home runs (discounting PED users) is a guaranteed Hall slot. McGriff had 34 home runs and was arguable in his peak season. Give him those 48 games back, and I wonder if we feel differently about the Crime Dog.

The numbers aren't anywhere close to what I think many would assume.

Sosa had an amazing peak, but the roughly 10 years he played prior to that peak he compiled a not-so-impressive .257/.308/.469. The peak was hall of fame worthy. The other two thirds of his career wasn't even close. He's a borderline candidate that would fall on the outside of the HoF for me and it has absolutely nothing to do with steroids.

Edgar Martinez should be in the Hall. Bagwell, Piazza, Biggio, Raines, and Schilling would be get yes votes from me. Clemens, Bonds, and McGwire obviously should get in on stats, but with the PED questions I can see both sides of the argument and generally don't care strongly one way or the other if they get in or not.

It requires a 75% vote to get in, right? It looks like no one is going to make it in 2012 if FOFC is anywhere near the real results.

His stats say he would actually look worse if he left after 6 innings.

Jack Morris Career Pitching Splits - Baseball-Reference.com

My point (which was unclear) is that he pitched differently than current era pitchers. He had to assume every night he was pitching nine innings and throwing 120 pitches. Pedro Martinez came out throwing gas for 6 innings, Morris had to pace himself. Morris' numbers look worse compared to current era pitchers largely due to the way he was handled. But it was a different era. He was arguable one of the 3 pitchers of his era.

Frankly, his splits make him even more HOF worthy. The guy was his best in late innings.

And this is coming from a guy who largely hated Morris during his career.

In fairness, I don't think the BBWAA will have people like Samifan who only trout-vote for Jose Mesa, or people who only homer-vote for Jeff Cirillo.

...but who knows, that probably does happen in the BBWAA vote.

No, they have people like Mariotti who can't be bothered to put that much thought into it.

Maybe he meant 3 innings...

Here are the accumalative pitching stats for years 1980-1989 in the MLB. Sorted by WAR.

I think my biggest issue with Morris' stats is that accumulative they are really good if not great, but if you just look at year to year they aren't very impressive, there are only three above 4. His best WAR seasons only rank as the 91st and 92nd best in the 10 year stretch (1987, 1986, both 4.8 WAR).

If it's truly the Hall of "Fame", someone like Jose Mesa will be remembered way longer than a vanilla guy like Biggio.