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-   -   Werewolf CXXIV - Watchmen (Game Over, Wolves Win!, endpost:704) (http://forums.operationsports.com/fofc//showthread.php?t=80532)

EagleFan 02-03-2011 03:12 PM

He seems to be getting defensive. I will look this over a little more after I get home (or if I can get a couple minutes in now).

hoopsguy 02-03-2011 03:16 PM

#191 - Lathum votes EF 1-0
#193 - PF votes CR 1-1 EF/CR
#194 - DV votes NTN 1-1-1 EF/CR/NTN
#195 - EF votes Saldana 1-1-1-1 EF/CR/NTN/Saldana
#197 - CR votes NTN 2-1-1-1 NTN over EF/CR/Saldana
#199 - Jeff votes Saldana 2-2-1-1 NTN/Saldana over EF/CR
#208 - Saldana votes EF 2-2-2-1 NTN/Saldana/EF over CR
#214 - NTN votes Lathum 2-2-2-1-1 NTN/Saldana/EF over CR/Lathum
#223 - Danny votes Saldana 3-2-2-1-1 Saldana over NTN/EF over CR/Lathum
#227 - J23 votes NTN 3-3-2-1-1 Saldana/NTN over EF over CR/Lathum
#232 - Hoops votes Saldana 4-3-2-1-1 Saldana over NTN over EF over CR/Lathum
#234 - DT votes Saldana 5-3-2-1-1 Saldana over NTN over EF over CR/Lathum
#236 - PF unvotes CR 5-3-2-1 Saldana over NTN over EF over Lathum
#238 - PF votes NTN 5-4-2-1 Saldana over NTN over EF over Lathum
#239 - Lathum unvotes EF, votes Saldana 6-4-1-1 Saldana over NTN over Lathum/EF
#241 - Saldana unvotes EF, votes NTN 6-5-1 Saldana over NTN over Lathum
#244 - Lathum unvotes Saldana, votes NTN 6-5-1 NTN over Saldana over Lathum

EF was once again under some early pressure, but that pressure fell away. Once again neither DT nor DV votes for EF. DV vote was in early, EF was 3rd candidate (but still sort of in it) when DT voted.

I'm going to re-review the D1/D2 stuff looking at another angle or two before voting, but right now I really want to know what side EF is on and would be fine with lynch being the means to reveal that info.

EagleFan 02-03-2011 03:18 PM

ntn's posts, any clue there? Though his odd vote yesterday may have been a way to signal the wolves. Since he didn't know the wolves he may have gotten a wolf vibe from saldana and not wanted to risk voting off a wolf. His getting lynched helped the wolves in the numbers game so it wasn't like he was losing anything by being lynched.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntndeacon (Post 2417833)
I am here for a bit.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ntndeacon (Post 2418057)
Looks like we are back to 3 with 2 votes each. I kinda like your argument CR. So I will end up on one of the 3... The back and forth this early makes me think of grasping at straws..so at least for day one that is enough reason to steer clear of the EF Hoops debate... Therefore I am left with only one option...

Vote Autumn


Quote:

Originally Posted by ntndeacon (Post 2418285)
I see that Autumn was the day one lottery "winner" but he made a valid point. so I might as well address it. I started by using the list Jackal made on that page (2) EF voted for then unvoted for Danny. So iwas under the assumption that Danny had only 1 vote when I made my comment and vote.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ntndeacon (Post 2418712)
Well phooey! The day I can't even look at the web until now is the day iam among the leaders in vote getters. Well I am only going to be on for a small amount of time until after the lynch.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ntndeacon (Post 2418721)
Ok It seems very likely that the wolves split their votes up. I am falsely assuming that one in each camp the EF voters and the Autumn ones. (I have no idea where the third could be, so am ignoring it for the moment). So I am gonna vote for one of the folks that voted for EF.

Still Danny and hoops seem to be on the side of light and right. So that leaves either saldana and Lathum. Voting for saldana seems to be like not voting. as I assume that at least at some point a defensive vote back will happen leaving us again tied. So I will go in a new direction. Basically because he is the only other possibility of the EF voters.

Vote Lathum


EagleFan 02-03-2011 03:22 PM

dola: or he may have gotten that same vibe off me and not wanted to risk voting one of us out and being wrong.

saldana 02-03-2011 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 2419136)
If you'll forgive me for saying it, sal, but I think you're getting too emotional about it, or at least that's the way it looks to me.

Anyone using my list alone as a basis for their vote should really be questioning what they are doing or are looking to hide behind someone else's post so as to not take any chances themselves.

As for the list itself, it may appear arbitrary to you, but I have my reasons. I talked about some; I have other feelings about certain things, but nothing but hints at this point. If you want full exposure I could write a book about it, but I don't think any of us here wants that.

Also, if you can't see that Lathum's move yesterday, with a villager dying puts the spotlight on you, then I don't think there's anything else I can see that will get you to recognize that.

i dont mind you saying it, because truth be told, it is irritating to me when people set me up for a lynching based on nothing, which is what you are doing...typically the person doing it is a wolf, hence my vote for you.

Darth Vilus 02-03-2011 03:27 PM

I'm still looking at the autumn voters since i'm pretty sure there's at least one wolf in there, just not sure who. I don't count NTN, the wolves didn't know whho he was. I'm voting for

DaddyTorgo

Because he voted Autumn and because i'm getting a weird vibe

Darth Vilus 02-03-2011 03:28 PM

I'll be out again today but tomorrow should be better

saldana 02-03-2011 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan (Post 2419158)
He seems to be getting defensive. I will look this over a little more after I get home (or if I can get a couple minutes in now).


thats funny...didnt you react pretty much the exact same way on day one (of all days)...the reason i have backed off of you is because i dont think you would have come out as strongly as you have and drawn attention to yourself....you draw enough attention as it is.

for the record, i have no problem taking votes, or even being lynched when i have done something to warrant it...my issue is with the fact that Chief buried me on his little list without acknowledging that my placement there is based on a dead villagers actions, and not mine...

that is exactly the kind of misdirection and omittance i expect from a wolf.

PackerFanatic 02-03-2011 03:29 PM

VOTE EAGLEFAN

The Jackal 02-03-2011 03:58 PM

J23 - 1 - (jeff 284)
CR - 1 - (saldana 293)
saldana - 1 - (EF 300)
DT - 1- (DV 306)
EF - 1- (PF 309)

Danny 02-03-2011 04:04 PM

Checking in on lunch real quick, don't have time to look over too much but nice little vote split we got there lol

Chief Rum 02-03-2011 04:27 PM

What I find funny is that for all saldana's moan and cry about my list, it is he who is doing the voting and declaring of wolves here.

He votes for me for less reason than I had for placing him in the Distrust section--I wasn't at the center of the most pivotal vote in the game so far. He has repeatedly described my actions as those a wolf would do, in posts in fairly quick succession. And I haven't even voted for him (unlike saldana apparently, I know my list is very rough right now and I am not willing to vote on it alone), and I'm not sure I was going to anyway.

As ole Willie once said, saldana "doth protest too much, methinks."

sal, would it make you feel better if instead of labelling Trust or Distrust, I had put something along the lines of "learn most if we lynch"? If the village voted to lynch you because your lynch gives us info instead of because the village decided not to trust you based off of my list, would you not still be just as dead? And yet, I'll bet that would indeed make a difference to you.

FWIW, I see a lot of value in what hoops is saying re: EF on that same level. His lynch would also provide us with a lot more information on the voting so far.

At this point, I am undecided where to go with my vote.

hoopsguy 02-03-2011 04:54 PM

I feel like I've waited long enough for someone to come forward with info, and that it just isn't going to be here today. So time to get the vote down.

I've outlined my reasons earlier - I think we learn the most from this vote. I'm potentially open to other candidates, but it would take a bit of convincing.

VOTE EAGLEFAN

Chief Rum 02-03-2011 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy (Post 2419207)
I feel like I've waited long enough for someone to come forward with info, and that it just isn't going to be here today. So time to get the vote down.

I've outlined my reasons earlier - I think we learn the most from this vote. I'm potentially open to other candidates, but it would take a bit of convincing.

VOTE EAGLEFAN


I'm leaning this way as well, but I'm going to hold off a little longer to see if we have any more thoughts or theories to come to bear.

My gut says EF's good; as sal pointed out, it seems unlikely EF would do the vote switching he has been doing or attracting as much attention as a wolf.

That said, I also noted above how his lynch would give us more info. Plus, we do have a cunning in this game, and certainly EF could eb trying to attract a scan from the seer. Since that does us no good, it would be better to lynch EF than to let him get scanned and throw us further into confusion when he shows as good.

Chief Rum 02-03-2011 05:13 PM

Actually, come to think of it, I guess it's possible we don't have a cunning in this game, as not all roles are in the game. That said, knowing how big a role he plays in The Watchmen and how big those roles are for the wolves in WW, I would be shocked if Ozymandias is not in the game.

So assuming Ozymandias is in the game and we had to guess who was looking to be scanned, EF would go to the top of the list.

The Jackal 02-03-2011 05:26 PM

EF - 2- (PF 309, hoops 313)
J23 - 1 - (jeff 284)
CR - 1 - (saldana 293)
saldana - 1 - (EF 300)
DT - 1- (DV 306)


Going out for a few hours, should be back well before deadline.. don't burn the place down.

saldana 02-03-2011 05:40 PM

chief, the difference between my list and yours, at least in my mind, is that your placement of me is based on someone elses actions...my placement of you is based on your own actions.

i'm going to eat large amounts of dead cow for a while, but will be back well ahead of deadline.

Chief Rum 02-03-2011 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saldana (Post 2419229)
chief, the difference between my list and yours, at least in my mind, is that your placement of me is based on someone elses actions...my placement of you is based on your own actions.

i'm going to eat large amounts of dead cow for a while, but will be back well ahead of deadline.


My own actions, as judged by you to be wolfish actions. I haven't seen anyone else come to that opinion. Truth be told, that's little more than your own wolf vibes, whcih you decry me referencing. But, hey, it's okay if you're doing it, right?

If you got caught in someone else's vote trap as a matter of circumstance, that is certainly disappointing--we have all been there. But, fact is, that vote result does reflect poorly on you, whether by your own actions or by another's. I don't think it's unreasonable to question your allegiance given how that vote played out.

I understand why you would be frustrated, but, damn, man, this ain't your first rodeo. You should know better than to get your haunches up in WW when circumstances outside of your control put undue suspicion on you.

And, FWIW, I still have not voted for you, not sure I intend to at this point, and in fact, the only vote on you (by EF) isn't even because of my list, but because of your reaction to it. Might want to think about that.

jeff061 02-03-2011 05:56 PM

You know what eats a copious amount of dead cow...don't you? A wolf, that's what.



/couldn't resist.

Danny 02-03-2011 07:11 PM

I'm home, i'm super tired. Going to look things over, make my vote and then I have to sleep.

EagleFan 02-03-2011 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff061 (Post 2419243)
You know what eats a copious amount of dead cow...don't you? A wolf, that's what.



/couldn't resist.


Crud, you beat me to it.

Danny 02-03-2011 07:14 PM

I think I'm going to decide between Chief and Saldana here. Saldana is acting pretty defensive, but I seem to remember him being more that was as a villager. Chief, I don't have a great read on him, but never do. What's interesting to me about Chief is this is the second day in a row he had one vote on him. I find it off that if he was a villager, a wolf wouldn't have put out a second early vote on him.

EagleFan 02-03-2011 07:14 PM

This sucks, I think that I am the only villager left... :)

Chief Rum 02-03-2011 07:14 PM

Although I suspect he's going to end up a villager here, I think we learn the most, a lot about Day One and a little about Day Two, if we find out EF's allegiance and rule him out as the cunning (or hopefully he is the cunning... ).

VOTE EAGLEFAN

jeff061 02-03-2011 07:18 PM

UNVOTE J23
VOTE Chief Rum

Don't want to see Eagle run away with this leading to the deadline. I'm just not sold on Saldana.Was going back and forth between CR and DT here.

Danny 02-03-2011 07:20 PM

Vote Chief Rum

I might be making a mistake going away from Saldana, but something just seems a little off about Chief to me. And I have to believe there is a good chance Saldana was scanned after yesterday and so far it seems like EF is the only one jumping over there and I find it highly unlikely he is the seer.

EagleFan 02-03-2011 07:24 PM

Won't be around for the deadline, most likely. I'll throw a list out there for what it is worth. I have no been keeping up with the voting in this game so I am not worth my weight in crap in this game at the moment.

jeff061 - no read and I know this is going to sound very strange but if I remember correctly he defended me early in the game, somewhat, that actually made me distrust him for some stupid reason

DaddyTorgo - I keep forgetting he is in this game, the last time I remember thinking that he ended up being a wolf

PackerFanatic - no read, don't like the hit and run vote though.

saldana - defensive, but it could be that I have been riding his sack; I actually was not going to leave my vote on him that long yesterday as I only wanted to get some reaction out of him, or someone

Darth Vilus - has he played?

Danny - no real read yet, was wrong when I thought there was a connection with him and Lathum

EagleFan - never trust this guy :) even though he is village through and through

hoopsguy - was leaning towards good but I still don't get his double post the other day; didn't someone else give us a double as well? Both prior to the cultist being lynched...

Chief Rum - never an easy read, no feel either way

J23 - is he playing?



Basically, I have no freaking idea at the moment. Just trying to post what is on the top of my head so it's out there (it's way out there).

Chief Rum 02-03-2011 07:24 PM

Y'all are making a mistake.

jeff061 02-03-2011 07:28 PM

Quote:

DaddyTorgo - I keep forgetting he is in this game, the last time I remember thinking that he ended up being a wolf

Kind of my feeling as well. Depending on what happens tonight I'll probably throw an early vote his way tomorrow.

Quote:

Y'all are making a mistake.

Right now just trying to make things interesting :D. Shit's been sterile.

EagleFan 02-03-2011 07:31 PM

unvote saldana

vote J23


I can't see the wolves bunching their votes on the top candidates on day one and didn't he miss day one voting? Isn't that the only vote not accounted for that wasn't on the top two or am I missing someone.

At least if you take me out the seer will still be alive, though you will need to nail the wolves from here out as it'll be 5-3 after the night kill if it started with 3 wolves.

Will try to check back in if I can.

jeff061 02-03-2011 07:35 PM

You are one erratic dude. I had just unvoted him mostly because I was the only one on him. Heh.

EagleFan 02-03-2011 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff061 (Post 2419279)
You are one erratic dude. I had just unvoted him mostly because I was the only one on him. Heh.


Everyone had jumped ship from saldana so I figured a different direction may be the way to go.

hoopsguy 02-03-2011 09:11 PM

And behold the sounds of silence.

Not sure if I'll be able to make it back before the deadline. But while I'm not 100% sold on EF = wolf, I'm pretty sure I would stay on him over CR if that is today's decision.

EagleFan 02-03-2011 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy (Post 2419328)
And behold the sounds of silence.

Not sure if I'll be able to make it back before the deadline. But while I'm not 100% sold on EF = wolf, I'm pretty sure I would stay on him over CR if that is today's decision.


J23?

hoopsguy 02-03-2011 09:12 PM

Also, we are still missing several votes today. I really would like to see those get in ... WW stinks when people don't establish voting and posting records for analysis.

PackerFanatic 02-03-2011 09:27 PM

I am having a hard time getting a read on anyone yet, and our poor voting up to this point isn't really helping. EF seems to be the best choice, if there is one, today - but CR is still pinging my radar.

EagleFan 02-03-2011 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic (Post 2419342)
I am having a hard time getting a read on anyone yet, and our poor voting up to this point isn't really helping. EF seems to be the best choice, if there is one, today - but CR is still pinging my radar.


The best choice would be a wolf so by that definition I am not the best choice. The worst choice would be the seer so by that definition I am at least not the worst choice.

If you gain something by lynching me that can lead to a run on wolves then so be it.

If not we're one bad choice away from losing the game.

DaddyTorgo 02-03-2011 09:32 PM

was having such a nice relaxing night I almost forgot bout the game

EagleFan 02-03-2011 09:37 PM

As of post 338:

Chief Rum 3 - saldana (293), jeff061 (325), Danny (326)
EagleFan 3 - PackerFanatic (309), hoopsguy (313), Chief Rum (324)
J23 1 - EagleFan (330)
DaddyTorgo 1 - Darth Vilus (306)

Chief Rum 02-03-2011 09:38 PM

Like hoops, I sure wish the late voters would have shown up by now. That might have made this post unnecessary. :(

I am Rorschach, the seer.

I scanned hoops and Danny on N1 and N2. They both came up good (although they could still either of them be the cunning).

That's why they're good trust. Hoops made sense early on to get a read on him. I picked Danny N2 because he's a good player to trust if you can. I went away from scanning EF because he didn't as much suspicious on D2, and away from Sal because Lathum was a villager.

When Danny came up good, I looked at the votes from D1. Including me, all EF voters were cleared... Except Sal. Going on the split wolf vote theory, I felt he was a likely wolf if EF is a villager and maybe even if he isn't.

Recasting the D2 vote with the hypothetical assumption Sal was a wolf, I noticed PF made a key pate vote on ntn to get him back in range of Sal who was leading the vote. This set up sal's self defense switch and lAthum's maybe unfortunate decision.

None of which i could explain about my list before. So there u go.

I'm probably out until past deadline. I still think EF is the right choice bcuz that will be like a scan of both Sal and pf.

EagleFan 02-03-2011 09:38 PM

unvote J23

vote Chief Rum


Not my first choice as I am not seeing what others are but I never have a good read on him.

EagleFan 02-03-2011 09:41 PM

Ouch, I wish you hadn't come out. I was debating about claiming as seer if I made it past this vote hoping that the wolves would take me out in the morning and the seer could get another scan in.

Though that would risk you outing yourself to try to counter claim against me; which is why I was only debating about that play.

EagleFan 02-03-2011 09:45 PM

dola: The claim after the vote would have been if I survived the vote. Hoping the real seer would wait until after the wolves made their morning attack to say anything.

Maybe thinking too complex there. Definitely not using the "KISS" theory there.

J23 02-03-2011 09:47 PM

Popped in to make sure I got my vote in. Why are we putting more votes on the seer?

DaddyTorgo 02-03-2011 09:47 PM

VOTE EAGLEFAN

hoopsguy 02-03-2011 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 2419351)
Like hoops, I sure wish the late voters would have shown up by now. That might have made this post unnecessary. :(

I am Rorschach, the seer.

I scanned hoops and Danny on N1 and N2. They both came up good (although they could still either of them be the cunning).

That's why they're good trust. Hoops made sense early on to get a read on him. I picked Danny N2 because he's a good player to trust if you can. I went away from scanning EF because he didn't as much suspicious on D2, and away from Sal because Lathum was a villager.

When Danny came up good, I looked at the votes from D1. Including me, all EF voters were cleared... Except Sal. Going on the split wolf vote theory, I felt he was a likely wolf if EF is a villager and maybe even if he isn't.

Recasting the D2 vote with the hypothetical assumption Sal was a wolf, I noticed PF made a key pate vote on ntn to get him back in range of Sal who was leading the vote. This set up sal's self defense switch and lAthum's maybe unfortunate decision.

None of which i could explain about my list before. So there u go.

I'm probably out until past deadline. I still think EF is the right choice bcuz that will be like a scan of both Sal and pf.


I saw this pretty clearly when re-reading the posts today. The trust list today, and then going back and seeing a post trusting me yesterday. It is either a legit seer play or a well conceived bluff. I was waiting to see if anyone responded negatively to your posts in a manner that suggested seer, but no one that voted for you seemed like a wronged party.

EagleFan 02-03-2011 09:53 PM

Oh crap, thought it was DT that claimed seer. Couldn't figure out why he claimed it now.

hoopsguy 02-03-2011 09:53 PM

Jeff, I assume you are just trying to properly digest these events? But will make a proper play before the end of the day and not lynch the person revealing as seer without a really good reason?

hoopsguy 02-03-2011 09:53 PM

J23, I assume you will be getting a vote in over the next couple of minutes?

jeff061 02-03-2011 09:53 PM

I don't like either of these choices.


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