OT - Who's watching The Wire?
 

NOTE: If you are an "on demand" viewer of the HBO shows before they are aired to the rest of the viewing audience, please do not include "spoilers" about those forthcoming episodes in this thread. Many/most of the thread participants do not have "On Demand" access, and would like to discuss the show as it is broadcast, or in the days following. --Thanks!


I've posted previously about this HBO show - and stick to my opinion that it's far and away the best thing on television. The second season has broadened the sweep, added an entire new level of characters, but I am just as hooked as before. The characters are very well done, and the show's depictions of the "behind the scenes" issues on both sides of these goodguy/badguy stories are truly excellent.

The drug dealers are seen as variously political, sensitive, human, brilliant, and fair - in addition to the stereotypical cold-blooded heartless thugs. The cops are seen as variously cowardly, political, human, brilliant, detestable, and sneaky - in addition to the stereotypical heroic and noble public servants.

I don't think the show in any way glorifies the bad guys, nor does it denegrate the good guys - but I find its depiction of all the people involved as complex makes the show absolutely riveting.

The excellent scripts and storyline add to the effect, but I think it's this premise that realy delivers.


My recommendation - if you have an opportunity to catch/tape one of these "marathon" sessions where they catch oyu up on the entire season so far, make a point to do so. After a couple of episodes, I think you'll find it to be one hell of a show.

I agree. I can't watch any other cop shows now that I've seen this. Everyone gushes about The Shield. I tried watching it and it just didn't get it for me after seeing The Wire. My dad's a retired cop so I lived through a lot of the hidden aspects of a cops life and this show does a great job nailing those things that other cop shows can't do. Shows like NPYD Blue and Hill Street Blues all turned into soap operas. The Wire is hard core and totally real. I could see where some people would find it boring because it doesn't have a shootout at the end of every show. Matter of fact this week's episode was the first one I recall actually having one. And to be realistic the only person to get hit was a kid who got killed in his bedroom. Law and Order is the only other show to tackle these themes.

I really like the show as well. But am scared that it's going to ruin it's authenticity/edge with this "Brother Mizzone" (sp?) character.

I missed (what I'm guessing was) the first season of the show. Due to this new HBO On Demand I have now, I can watch episodes 14-22. Would I be too lost if I started watching now? Should I just wait for it to released on DVD?

If it helps...I got into The Sopranos about half way through Season Two, and didn't have to many problems with that.

I think it would be worth trying to catch up. Find a web site that will give you some of the background from the first season, prepare to be a little lost for an episode or two, and then you'll be fine as it all comes together.

Knowing HBO's record, I would be absolutely shocked if they didn't start replaying the first season at some point near or immediately after the final episode for season two. I would wait until you can catch it from the beginning.

One of the things I really enjoy about the show is the complete disregard for over-explanation or dumbing things down. Terms and techniques used by either side (police/thugs/dockworkers) are sometimes confusing, always authentic, and NEVER explained, so you will often have to hear a term used three or four times before you understand what people are talking about. This was discerning for me coming in, and combined with the lack of backstory exposition at any time, I was completely lost when I first tried to catch the series from the middle of season 1, which is why I recommend you wait. However, these exacct characteristics are also what make the show so much smarter and real to me than anything else currently on televison.

With The Wire, you won't hear characters having repeated meaningless conversations just to explain what's going on to an invisible viewer, and that seemingly basic concept puts it in it's own category. I would rank The Wire above any season of The Sopranos, and put it with Band of Brothers, as some of the best stuff I've ever seen on the small screen.

As a caveat, I would recommend you still take my praise, and that of others, with a grain of salt, as it may be an acquired taste, and if you don''t like cop shows it probably won't do much for you. If you go in with too great of expectations, the subtleties might just pass underneath your radar, leaving you wondering what everybody was so giddy about. I am so glad I gave this show a second try after my initial rejection, and again I really urge you to start at the beginning.

p.s. MCNULTY ROOOOLZ

I tried to watch a few episodes of the wire and I couldn't get into it. I really like Six feet under, the sopranos and Oz, but the wire just doesn't do it for me. I find the arrogant cop, one of the main characters, extremely annoying and after the ridiculous conversation between him and his boss in the first episode, found the show damn near impossible to take seriously.
Most HBO stuff is excellent, though. Six feet under is probably my favorite. Sopranos a close second.

6 Feet Under just came completely unravelled to me. The original point was a dark comedy about death, and it was very good. Now they turned it into the mortuary's gay romp.

The Soprano's sucked last year. BORING.

The Wire is certainly an acquired taste. I doubt it will ever be the hit of the Sopranos because it is so subtle, but it is really a brilliant show if you can get into it.

If you work somewhere with a regimented office structure, combined with a potentially dangerous work environment, also with a lot of office politics then you can easily relate to what is going on. I can identify a similar character I have known or worked with with nearly every cop on the show. And I also had enough street exposure as a kid to identify with the gangsters. And the show gets these characters dead on. They hit the subtle things most writers don't know or would never pick up on. Things like the gangster with his aquariums. I once knew a guy like him who was into the same thing.

The writer of the show was a crime scene reporter in Baltimore for several years. He bases virtually all of the characters on real people or traits of real people he worked with over the years. This isn't some Hollywood type making it up. These characters and these stories are real.

I didn't care much for The Wire. I tried to get into it and just didn't find it that interesting. I also don't care much for Six Feet Under.

I really enjoyed Oz and The Soprano's though. Don't care much at all for any of the HBO comedies. Of course, I'm not a huge tv watcher either so I seldom follow a show week to week.

The Wire is my favorite drama on TV (comedy = CYE), but I do think you need to watch it continually. The exec prod/main writer, David Simon, says it's constucted like a novel, not episodically. Btw, his co-writer is a former Baltimore Detective. I like all the acting, particularly the character Omar.

On CNN.com today about The Wire. Very good explanation of the show.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/TV/08/07/sprj.em03.the.wire/index.html

I'm just the opposite. I've seen a couple episodes of The Wire, but just c an't get interested after seeing The Shield :).

Great, and unexpected news - The Wire has been picked up for a third season.

Link

Good news indeed.

I watched the first season and liked it, but haven't watched any of season two yet. When they show a catch-up mini-marathon or just begin airing season two a second time, a heads up would be greatly appreciated...

Wire Fans

My guess is Sobotka will be dead by the time next episode begins. Matter of fact, I bet the episode begins with his body being found. Anyone actually think they will bother to keep him alive long enough to show his murder next episode?

Well, if this were an ordinary show, we'd be expecting some sort of bullshit deus ex machina to resolve the big cliffhanger. (Like "surprise, the cops decided to tail you after all") My co-workers both think that's what is coming.

I've been in the "straight shooting" camp all along, and I think he's a goner. I like your theory that we'll just fast-forward to a future point where the deed has already been done - that woudl work for me, rather than having the "when we last left our heroes..." that it seems to be setting up for.

I think he's a goner as well. I'm also kind of rooting for the bad guy's. What I mean is the cops don't have a very strong case since the only one talking 'White Mike' doesn't know that much. And Frank who could blow the whole operation will probably be "nuetralized". I just think that like last season they won't have enough to send everyone away for life but maybe give out a few deals like they did to the Barksdale crew.

IMO, unless the cops show, he's dead. They were prepared to help him out, but when they found out he had gone to the cops, they decided to axe him ("We'll do it your way").

I'll be gravely disappointed if the cops show up on the scene, for a very specific reason. For the entire duration of the show, we have seen everything that everyone has been doing - both the "good guys" and the "bad guys." Even when the timing was coincident (the too-late raid on Double-G's store coming to mind, of course) we saw everything from all points of view. If they now decide to spring out with "oh, well the cops did this, but we just didn't show you until now" then it undermines the show's honesty.

Sobotka should be a goner, obviously, and the cops should have some of that blood on their hands for letting him walk. Maybe this can help bring down the FBI informant, even... though I think that's probably a longshot.

Was it just me, or was the last episode top-notch? Great build-up of tension throughout the whole show, and the greek muisc playing over the top of the last few minutes really worked well.

I agree... I thought the last two were both exceptional. Two weeks ago, I was out of my seat at least two or three times, and laughing openly a few others... and in the last one, I felt like it was just boiling over. I don't want this show to end.

I'm a big fan of the Wire, and it's definitely been getting better and better as the season goes on. A lot like the latest season of Six Feet Under in that way. It's getting so I'll give any HBO show the benefit of the doubt because they've all been so good. Looking forward to Carnivale.

Last season, I tried to get into The Wire from the start, but I just didn't get it the first time around.

After reading a few reviewers on the web who's opinions I generally expect, I set my Tivo to grab the first season when it was getting replayed on HBO2.

I got it the second time around. Like Homicide: LOTS, it's a show that you have to be willing to give your attention. You can't watch it as background noise or in the midst of doing anything else. But if you're willing to give it your attention, it'll draw you in.

After finishing the first season, I was fairly sure it was one of the top 2 or 3 shows on TV (Buffy, West Wing, The Wire). It's impossible to pick a favorite episode - the whole season was just phenomenal from moment one to the finale. The highlights for me were the death of Wallace and, of course, Bunk and McNulty putting together the murder in the apartment.

This year, when I sat down to watch season 2, I knew what I was in for. Going into the final episode, I'm fairly sure that the two seasons of The Wire may be the best 2 season run of television since Buffy Seasons 2 and 3.

I often try to sell people on The Wire, but then stop trying when they tell me they love 24. The Wire is the anti-24. No lame subplots. No red herrings. No deus-ex-machina. Every moment has meaning. Nothing is contrived. Even this season, when you knew they were going to have to get the team back together, they still waited until mid-season, and did it in a reasonable manner.

Then they drop D'Angelo. No fanfare, no repercussions. Avon wants him dead, he ends up dead.

Then Brother Mouzone shows up, quite possibly the best character on television since, well, since Omar.

And then, just to make sure they keep you off balance, they have Prez pop his father-in-law and get pulled off the team.

As you get your bearings again, they finish the penultimate episode, looking like they're heading towards bringing down the Greeks, one man's actions (good old Busmalis from Oz) leave you watching Frank Sobotka, the man who started the season as "the target" walking towards certain death.

The amazing thing is that even with Sobotka dead, it leaves so many options. What will Nick do? What about Nick's dad? What's the payoff between Omar and Stringer? What about Avon and String?

The only shows in the past 2 seasons to come along that I've truly loved have been The Wire and Firefly. One of them has been cancelled by quite possibly the worst network on TV. Thankfully, HBO has some sense and I'm going to get to see a third season of The Wire.

God, I love this show.

In the preview's for the finale they showed Nick getting a shotgun and saying something like "I'll get'em". That has me concerned I hope he doesn't go all Rambo on us and take out all the Greeks the cops can't get.

Just doing a little forum necromancy of my own...


The Wire is now well into its third season, and things are really starting to click again. For those who have watched all along, the focus is basically back onto the two-sided affair where we started: the West Baltimore drug gangs, and the police detailed to deal with them. But that synopsis is a grave understatement of the intricate and complex relationships that appear on both sides, as well as across the bounds. This show is far and away the deepest thing I have ever seen in television.

After first getting hooked on this show (after several episodes of its first season), I formed the opinion that it was my favorite show on television. After the second season puled me in even further, I think I bumped to thinking that it was probably my favorite television series ever. Now, with the added richness in this third season, I'm starting to think this might be the best thing that has ever been on television, at any time, of any duration. I know I'm totally in the bag for it, but to me, this seems to be the absolute height of what television can do -- there are scenes that are excruciatingly difficult, moments that are intensely funny without being able to easily describe why, and presentations of both sides of issues and people that are just far, far deeper than we have ever had any right to expect.


Not long ago, the DVD with season one was released. For those of you who are into that sort of thing, and think you might find yourself able to get immersed into a very well-done, slowly-developing crime drama... you might consider it as a possible addition to a gift list.

Wow.

Definetly a favorite of mine, though I think I take Deadwood over it on an HBO basis. But yes, I agree with almost everything you said above.

I can agree with most of that. It is a very good show.

I have the added personal advantage of living in Maryland (the show is set in Baltimore), and being involved in local politics. So, while all the storylines revolve around real neighborhoods in and around Baltimore, there are also political and social references weaved into the show which are very familiar to me and Mrs Q. We also know a few people who have been involved with or actually on the show itself, adding an extra slice of intrigue. Add in the "fictional" characters who bear a stunning resemblance to real-life people (like the ambitious City Councilman, clearly modeled after curretn Mayor O'Malley) and it's even better.

I agree with everything Quik said about why it is the best show on television (though I think I would have to pick a different show by the same creative team, Homicide, as the finest series ever made). One aspect of this show that I like so much is its positive portrayal of working class and inner city people. This is something that is basically missing from our culture and we are worse of because of it.

I put this show right alongside OZ and The Sopranos as the best tv dramas ever. All three shows require multiple viewings to really catch all the details.

I want to move to Hamsterdamn.

As a fan of The Shield and being HBO-less, how would somebody familiar with both shows compare them?

I despise most t.v. and cop shows most of all. I never followed stuff like HSB and NYPDB - i think i only tried watching NYPDB looking for this famed "partial nudity" of Dana Delaney and emerged from the hour wondering what all the hype was about the show. Somebody mentioned soap opera and that is a good descriptor.

However, when I caught The Shield I was blown away with it and I'm no (better yet, was no) Michael C. fan at all and didn't think he could shake the image of 'the commish" out of my mind but he has done it. The show is raw and doesn't show anyone in a good light. I don't know if there is 1 character on the show that isn't at least 25% wretched and most are at 90%+.

It is one of those shows (for me) that I have to talk to others about. That is the mark of a good series.

Cop Rock did it for me. oh...the good ole days.

You know, The Wire would be a great name for a reality tv show.

[Stewie and Brian are trying to sleep in a motel, a drug deal is heard in the next room]
Drug Buyer: You got the stuff?
Drug Dealer: Yeah I got it, where's the money, huh? I wanna see the money. Drug Buyer: No, no, no, you don't see the money 'till I see the stuff.
Stewie Griffin : Oh, for God's sake, does anyone wait to put an end to this nuisance. [yelling]
Stewie Griffin : HE'S WEARING A WIRE.
Drug Dealer: What? You son of a...
[gunshots are heard following by a "body drop" sound effect]

SI

HBO sure does know how to pick 'em. OZ, The Wire, Deadwood, The Sopranos...Curb Your Enthusiasm.

Greatness.

I absolutely love The Wire, and I do think it has passed the other HBO shows for me in terms of being my favorite, it is flat out amazing. The politics, the real-life foibles and flaws in all the characters, showing pretty much all sides of the drug war in the city, the amazing writing, great characters (could any show have a murderous thug that you like as much as Omar?) Whew.

This weeks episode certainly did not disappoint. Does anyone know how many more episodes are left for this season? Things certainly seem to be reaching a cresendo

According to tvtome.com

Season 3
26.	3-1		19-Sep-2004		Time After Time
27.	3-2		26-Sep-2004		All Due Respect
28.	3-3		03-Oct-2004		Dead Soldiers
29.	3-4		10-Oct-2004		Amsterdam
30.	3-5		17-Oct-2004		Straight and True
31.	3-6		31-Oct-2004		Homecoming
32.	3-7		07-Nov-2004		Back Burners
33.	3-8		14-Nov-2004		Moral Midgetry
34.	3-9		21-Nov-2004		Slapstick
35.	3-10		28-Nov-2004		Reformation
36.	3-11		12-Dec-2004		Middle Ground
37.	3-12		19-Dec-2004		Mission Accomplished

SI

The Shield plays a little over the top, as most network shows do. They put more action and more edgy stuff in it to make it move faster.

Meanwhile, The Wire strives for total realism. The writer, David Simon, used to be a crime beat reporter in Baltimore and also was once a writer for that show with Richard Belzer that was also part of the Law and Order world. Anyway, Simon says the The Wire is written like a novel that plays out a chapter a week, so it moves much more slowly than a network type show. There is violence and some edgy stuff, but it is not forced or gratuitous to make it into every 60 minute show. It plays out when it is appropriate. Also, no hokey car chases, except for the funny seen when Herc was chasing the 13 year old with the drugs while he had the theme song from Shaft playing.

The Wire can also be very funny. My favorite all time scene was in season one when McNulty and Monk checked a crime scene out and never said anything but F words, yet they managed to convey everything they felt. It's think kind of juvenile things guys in that situation might really do that network TV would never dream of.

ANd last night was a great show. I especially loved the drug dealers using the suspect picture software to draw women in the police station, and the local cop pulling Kima aside and saying, "Your partner is a bit of an asshole."

Great to see Stringer finally confronting Barskdale too. I didn't think he'd have the guts to actually come out and admit to whacking De'Angelo.

I agree that The Wire can be very funny - but it's not cheap one-liners, it all rises up from the character development, which has been woven for a long time. There are countless scenes where all we get is a look, a word, or a simple situation -- but if you know the characters, their history, and the relationships they have, that look can be a laugh-out-loud moment. In that sense, I think a fair analogy is that this show is like real literature, rather than reading a magazine -- the depth is what makes it so enriching.

Oh my god.

Is there any doubt this is the greatest show on TV?

Possibly the greatest show of all time?

I will admit to being completely prone to hyperbole (usually for the sake of humor), but I'm not even kidding about this.

The Sopranos wishes it was this good.

What an unbelievable episode. Right from the very start (the street confrontation between Omar and Brother Muzzone -- which was undoubtedly the most riveting few minutes of "poker" I've seen in TV in months) this was just brilliantly executed. And I don't use that term lightly.

From the context clues -- it sounds like HBO is undecided in whether the show will get a fourth season. In their 5-minute self-promo piece leading up to the broadcast, they highlighted the "2005" offerings, with mentions of "Carnivale - new season" and "Deadwood - new season" included. No mention of The Wire there, so it clearly has not been officially extended. However, as they previewed the next episode, they called it the "Season Finale" rather than a "Series Finale" -- and they have fairly deliberately used the latter term when closing out shows like Oz and Sex and the City. My best guess is that they are on the fence with The Wire... and I'm crossing my fingers.

Looks to me like they are heading toward a possible "wrap-up" point at the end of season three, but I'd love to see a season four that drifted into politics (the mayoral race is really heating up now...) and who knows what else? Nobody saw the dockyard sidestory (basically all of season two) coming, but it was nested in beautifully -- we're even still getting references back to it. It would not be that hard for the "Major Crimes Unit" to remain intact, and for that group to continue to receive special details -- whether the focus is the West Side drug trade or elsewhere.

*sigh*

Last night's episode was masterful. They better make another season. There's plenty of places to go:

There is still the whole East side story with Prop Joe that can be flushed out. They have to do some more with the dockyards.

Sweet episode.

Can someone explain why the guy was killed at the end of the show by those nation of islam dudes? From what I gather the guy who got killed was trying to turn on his friend who then had him killed. One thing I found interesting is the got who got shot at the end could still be alive because the killers didn't go for the head shot.

Ummmmm.... well, let's see... where to start.




***past and present spoilers ahead, for anyone careful***




Stringer Bell, the victim at the end of this week's episode, was the #2 man in the West Side drug ring (the Barksdale clan) we've been following all along.

The two killers were Omar (with the scar) and Brother Muzzone (with the bow tie). Neither has anything to do with the Nation of Islam in the show's storyline, though there is a clear iconic reference to NOI through Brother Muzzone's attire.

Early in season one, the Barksdale clan tortured and killed Omar's boyfriend. Omar was not pleased with this -- particularly the manner in which is was accomplished. This set up Omar to, eventually, find out who ordered this thing done, and exact his revenge.

At one point, one of the Barksdale connections (the very heavy guy named Proposition Joe) told Omar that it was Brother Muzzone who set up the killing (or Omar's boyfrield). Omar found and shot Muzzone -- but their conversation afterward (as Muzzone lie bleeding) revealed that Omar had been misled. Over time, after Muzzone's recovery, the two realized they had a common bond -- both now had grudges against Barksdale and company -- including their top liutenant, Stringer Bell.

The eventual result was the surround-and-isolate strategy last night, that led to Bell's rather cold demise. It was a huge moment in the series -- Stringer Bell had been a very, very well-developed character and a major component of the storyline.


Hop that helps.

Quiksand - Thank you for the nice review of the season. I was not able to watch the entire season due mostly to school. However I did not know homosexuals were in the show that to me is very shocking considering that this guys are gangsters. I will be buying the season when it releases on DVD. Again thank you very much.

The amazing thing to me is that they do this amazing bit of misdirection each year that doesn't make you feel used, but makes you feel stupid for not seeing it all along.

This year it's "H"amsterdam, which I had anticipated being involved much more heavily in the climax of the season 3 arc. Granted, with one episode to go, it still could be, but my guess is that Hamsterdam will live on as the connection to Season 4 (should there be one), where the mayoral race will take the forefront.

The other bit of misdirection was all of the talk about Season 3 being about politics, which you immediately associate with Carcetti, Daniels' wife, and the selectmen and mayor races.

But the poltical angle in this season wasn't really about the actual political race. It was the politics that go on inside the po-lice. The stuff between Colvin and Carver, with Carver throwing his lot in with Colvin. Herc narcing on Colvin to the paper. McNulty and Daniels issues. The stuff with Prez and the other cops.

Just a great show with so many layers that you start to notice more and more stuff as you think back. If it's not renewed for another season, I might just drop HBO in protest, even if Deadwood was stellar this past season.

I thought season one was a masterpiece. Season two a nice diversion into something different. Nice but possibly falling into that trap of a show going downhill.

Then there is this season. Every damn show is a masterpiece, and they only get better every week. This show has really hit its stride and has got to be in its prime. I can't imagine it getting any better, although I hope it does. Now what becomes of Omar. Is the score settled with the Barksdale gang or does he come after the Man? What does McNulty do now that his Moby Dick is dead? And are the gloves off for Barksdale? Do the cops cleanup up Hamsterdam and leave the whole territory for Barksdale to plunder?

For what it's worth, someone on another board I frequent has seen the finale.

He says that it's mindblowing, that it would make a perfect series finale, but it would also make for a perfect jumping off point for season 4.

ONE SMALL SPOILER FOR THOSE INTERESTED












FURTHER DOWN


















He says that Prez is at least present in the finale, so that thread gets picked up again.

I finally got around to watching Sunday's episode last night.

I thought Avon was going to end up dead. I thought Stringer was too strong of a character to kill off at this point. He's been McNulty's main target the whole series.

I'm also wondering if Stringer is really dead. They led you to believe that, but never showed it for sure.

Thank the maker for HBO On-Demand. I missed seasons 1 and 2 when they were on originally. I watched the first episode out of boredom and have loved every minute of the show since.

I think Stringer is really dead. For one thing, The Wire doesn't tend to go for that hokey "we thought the guy was dead, but he came back!" gimmick that many shows do, and come on, do you think Omar and Brother Muzzone would have left there if there was any chance he would be alive?

What an amazing episode.

Also regarding possible cancellation, this is an interesting article:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...p-224444c.html

Another article about the renewal decision . . . we ought to hear in the next few weeks, it seems.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertai...al-artslife-tv

What time of year did the first 2 seasons air?

With HBO On-Demand, I'm guilty of not watching each new show on Sunday night. How many folks do you think do the same thing?

I think the show was on during the summer previously. Since it was considered one of HBO's "weaker" shows they didn't put it up against the heavy hitters of fall TV, but this year since the Sopranos and some of the other shows are long delayed, they moved it to fall. Of course my question is, with Six Feet Under only with one season to go, the Sopranos probably on its last legs, how can they afford to cancel another show? Oh well, wishful thinking. I'll be really bummed if they cancel this. I've been sending HBO those feedback emails off their website!

Pretty sad when what is clearly one of the best shows, maybe ever on TV, is in danger of cancellation because viewers have a short attention span. Let's just bring in more quality shows like "Everyone Loves Raymond" and "Joey" while running off "The Wire". I don't watch too much TV, but God it seriously pisses me off when a totally quality show is too over the head of mediocre viewers. Maybe next time we just cancel the audience instead.

What a terrible shame it will be if the show is not renewed. HBO never supported OZ all that well when it was still going. They only gave us 8 episodes per season and it was often in danger of being discontinued.

One season ended production with OZ in serious danger of being cancelled. The writers decided to go out with a bang in case the show never continued. There were upwards of 15 deaths in that season-ending episode.

I watched this last night and I have a question which one is the gay one? Scarface or the muslim? Also are they trying to say the Nation of Islam are drug dealers?

One more thing... who is the leader of the gang? Avon or Stringer... and what does cat in the braids do?

Scarface - Omar - is the homosexual.

They've never told Brother Mouzone's (the Nation of Islam looking guy) backstory. My guess is that he may have at one point been a member of the NOI, but left, or the NOI doesn't know that he runs security/does hits for drug dealers. They've never implied the NOI is drug dealers. In fact, Brother Mouzone is not a drug dealer. He just does work for them, something that I think is a big distinction in the world of The Wire.

Avon Barksdale is the leader of the Barksdale crew, but was in prison for a few years, during which time Stringer Bell led them, made them more efficient, and started to put money into ventures that were more legitimate and had less risk of getting him capped.

If The Wire isn't renewed, I just might cancel my HBO subscription. The only things left will be Deadwood and Curb Your Enthusiasm ...

Thank you. I didn't know Mouzone was a hit man... damn I regret not watching the whole season. Anyway what is interesting is Avon came back and assumed the leadership role with much fight from Stringer... I find that interesting considering money is involved. I figure Stringer would have made Avon second in command while he is the leader. Good show.

Didn't seem to me like Avon took the #1 role. Seemed like him and Stringer were kinda "Sharing" it and got into a power struggle.

When Avon came back, he started calling the shots without really letting String know. Stringer still had people who he had brought in who answered to him (hence the botched hit on Omar violating the Sunday truce), but Avon had taken back 99% of the drug business, which is why the co-op was worried. Avon's taking back corners and striking out at Marlowe while Stringer tries to get him to see the big picture and work with in "Hamsterdam."

Stringer had more power than before Avon went to prison, but I think the whole organization thought Avon was #1.

24 hrs until the Season Finale. I keep checking BitTorrent sites to see if anyone has it early ...

This show is interesting is it on DVD?

Actually, I think he's more into "security". NOI has made a buttload of money doing "security" in ghettos. I think this is a take off on that with him doing the "security" gig as a cover, but really in the pockets of the dealers with the highest bankroll. In other words, he is one amoral dude.

As for DVD, I don't think it;s there yet. My wife looked all over to get it for me for X-Mas and swears it's not out. If it were, she'd have found it.

Cool I just did a quick search myself and nothing came up although it is on some torrent sites...

Season one is out on dvd. I found it at both the official site and Amazon.

Avon is the top dog. When the guy who was setting up the boxing for the kids asked to see the "top man", that guy was Avon. Stringer was running things while Avon was in prison, but it was really Avon's crew.

String kept trying to get Avon to change the way the crew was ran, but all along he knew it was Avon'sdecision to make. The whole Co-op thing was done by String, without Avon's knowledge.

There better be a season 4. This is without a doubt the best show on TV. It just takes a bit of dedication, but once you are in, it has you hooked, and is well worth the time invested.. I try to get as many people as possible to watch this.

Season 1 is out on DVD now, with Season 2 coming in January.

He's not only a hit man, he's supposed to be one of the top hit men in New York. Avon called in some favors and recruited him last season to come down and help with some security problems they were having, people were SCARED of the guy just by reputation.

Mrs Q and I just re-watched the last episode (brilliant) this morning... and I wanted to put a few things together that were mroe evident to me upon a second viewing.



POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD (If you haven't watched the last episode)




Leading up to the hit on Stringer, there are several things pointing to how exactly it went down.

#1 - Mouzone and Omar meet up early in the episode, and realize they have common interests -- a grudge with the Barksdale gang (this is obvious)

#2 - Mouzone finds Avon (at the barber shop) and confronts him... Avon offers money, Mouzone is not interested... the scene ends before some sort of "deal" can be struck

#3 - When Avon and Stringer are having their reminiscences at the harbor overlook apartment, Avon asks when Stringer's meeting with the (Polish) contractor is scheduled for... when they have an embrace "to us" there's a very obvious sense of unease becauyse we know that Stringer has gone to the police, fingering Avon's location to get him sent back to jail... what is les obvious is that Avon is now clearly scheming against Stringer as well...

#4 - When Mouzone and Omar corner Stringer at the next day's meeting with the contractor... in the short exchange before they kill Stringer, Omar says "your boy gave you up" -- clarifying what had become very clear to me during the second viewing -- that Avon barksdale cut a deal with Mouzone and Omar, and he "gave them" Stringer to satisfy their thirst for vengeance. When the two embraced the night before, not only was Stringer working against Avon, but Avon was working against Stringer -- even more quickly and ruthlessly.

"It's just business."




That episode was full of absolutely brilliant scenes. Might be the best hour of television I have ever seen. (And I watch Sabado Gigante on a semi-regular basis, so I know of what I speak)

I definitely had the feeling after the barber shop scene and the way it ended, followed by the rooftop scene where Avon uneasily asked where String would be, that he had gave him up.

Then, as soon as he said "It's just business" - the same words Stringer had said to Colvin about giving Avon up, I *knew* that Avon had done it.

My only question was whether or not Stringer picked up on it too. He always seemed to be one step ahead.

Just a brilliant hour of TV. The Wire is one of the few shows that actually serves from not being broadcast in HD. The 4:3 framing makes everything cramped, close, and tight, evoking exactly the feelings they want the viewer to have (I think).

Well the ending left me confused but i guess I needed to watch from the beginning to actually understand it. I fail to see why Marlo was there at the ending of the show when Avon is in the courthouse. Maybe they will put a hit on him...

Wow, just wow.

I think that's as neatly wrapped up as things will ever get on this show. If that's the end, then there's no doubt in my mind that the 3 year run of The Wire was the best run of a show in history. Just immense storytelling.

Hopefully HBO will come to their senses and realize that this story is too good to not continue.

I believe the musical wrap up at the end previewed several potential storylines for next season. So while it is possible they were anticipating this is the end, they also have a plan set for next season. (Better than say having the President get attacked by an assasian only to later just have a hand scar) I hope McNulty on the beat doesn't spell the end of his character.

Very satisfying ending, certainly done with one eye on it being a potential series finale.

But there is SO much more than can be done with this show! The politics are obvious, but McNulty back on the beat, presumably in Daniels' district... what happens with Marlo on the corners... Omar?... Cutty's gym... this show really deserves a fourth season, and to not be set up against oversexed middle-aged white women.

*sigh*

Mind explaining alittle more why you feel this way? Because the word confused is what best describes how i feel. So who is in charge of the Barksdale crew? Silm Charles or the light skin guy? I fail to see how the story can continue
...

The story isn't about Barksdale or his crew. The story is about Baltimore. Whether the drug gangs remain the major focus is secondary -- there are plenty of things to keep fueling the show. Actually, if Marlo's crew essentially "took over" -- they'd be perfectly suitable targets for a new wire from the police, just as well as the old guys were. The king is dead, long live the king.

You see I didn't know that... a lack of kowledge on my part. The fact it is about gangsters is what makes me interested. If it is about politicans then I won't watch much...

It's not really about gangsters, or politicians, or the cops.

It's about how the various groups affect each other and affect the city.

Season 1 was focused on the Barksdale crew and the formation of the task force to take them down using wiretaps. The season ends with lots of loose ends as internal politics of the police force and government force them to move early and the Barksdale crew all do the right things so that only a couple of folks serve more than token time - including D'Angelo Barksdale, Avon's nephew, who started to see the light that no one gets out of the game alive.

Season 2 saw the task force come back together staking out the Greek mafia, who had ties to the teamsters in Baltimore, and ended up having ties to the drug dealers. Again, the team closed in only to miss out on the top guys, but end up with lots of intel on the drug gangs.

Season 3 (this season) had a focus back on the Barksdale crew for the case, but it was as much about how the "game" affects various inhabitants of Baltimore. The police get tied up running down minor dealers and never do real case work to cut down on crime. The dealers gun down each other to the point that it's rare to see someone get out alive or live to be middle aged. The government casts a blind eye to the problem, instead insisting the cops do a better job. Citizens get caught in the middle, in some cases seeing the dealers as the benefactors of the neighborhood; in other cases, seeing them as the scourge.

To me, this season focused on a few people who tried to fight their way out of those predetermined destinies. Stringer Bell tried to go straight, but in doing so ended up even more of a criminal than he had been before, resulting in his death. Bunny Colvin tried to find a way to let police do their jobs and ends up getting screwed due to the politics of the situation. Cutty actually got his way out of the game, thought he was getting through to his kids, only to find them run back to the corners the moment they can start dealing again.

The irony for Cutty, of course, is that the hit he was supposed to do when he realized he couldn't kill anymore, was the very dealer bossing around his boxers.

I don't know if I've done the show justice. I think you can sit down and watch an entire season in order (better yet, watch at least season 1), you'll come away with the same sort of awe that the rest of us have. It's just an amazingly rich show.

A great ending to a great season. I hope it isn't the end of the series.

In the first couple minutes it was clear that McNulty was getting ready to make a change. It does seem a bit odd that he would move to a uniformed beat patrol since he is (was) a detective. It was his choice to move to the Western but I would have expected him to land in a role more in line with his rank. (shrug)

Overall, I agree that they did a very good job of providing some measure of closure while leaving plenty of fertile ground for more storytelling should they get the opportunity.

They planted that seed a while back though.

He ran into the detective whom they dumped the bodies on in Season 2 (I can't remember his name) and he was talking about how great it was to just be a beat cop again.

When they panned through the Western, that's who McNulty was sitting next to.

Ah, thanks for the explanation. I missed a fair portion of the second season.

Hmm ... I phrased the poorly.

The run in with the cop happened this season.

They dumped the bodies on him in Season 2.

I know the exchange you are referring to...the cop in the van that "landed on his feet". Yes, they did kind of foreshadow McNulty's decision there.

Excellent ending. There are plenty of plot points to pick up if the show is renewed (and it better be).

One question that I have (I don't know how I missed it). Why is Daniels on the outs with his wife?

Over time, they set up the background that Daniels' wife was frustrated that he was so "married" to police work -- she wanted him to get promoted, or else find something better to do in the private sector. Eventually, we get the sense that she felt second place, and decided to separate.

At one point, she seemed like she was looking to reconcile, but he had just started things up with the Assistant State's Attorney... and he wasn't interested in reconciliation at that point, to his wife's apparent surprise.

I have the opportunity to work pretty closely with the Detectives in my city and at least here Detective isn't actually a rank, it's a title. The Detectives are on the same pay scale (with the exception of a clothing allowance) as a patrolman. The title is of considerable status but it isn't actually a rank. Not sure if this is different in the big cities but would make sense for how they were able to bust McNulty to a bad job so easily during Season 2.

That makes sense. Thank you for making that clearer for me.


I just watched it again and laughed out loud a second time at this exchange between the guy that bought the cell phones and his girl...

Her: I swear you have got to be the stupidest motherfucker I have ever gone out with!

Him: I can't wait to go to jail.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...y/262108p-2244...

Spoiler Space follows if you haven't seen this week's show.

At the climax of its third season, HBO's gritty drama "The Wire" is
hanging by one.
"We haven't been renewed," said creator David Simon, "We have not been
killed either."

A decision on the fate of Simon's critically praised series about the
dangerous corners of Baltimore's drug trade isn't expected until
mid-January.

"I know [HBO] isn't particularly pleased with our numbers," Simon
said. "Why would they be? But, at the same time, I'm not sure what on
HBO besides maybe 'The Sopranos' could have gone up against the buzz
saw that is 'Desperate Housewives' and Sunday night football."

"The Wire," which has its season (or series) finale Sunday night at 9,
boldly killed off a major character last week when Stringer Bell
(Idris Elba), a dealer trying to go legit as a real-estate developer,
was gunned down.

"I checked the [message] boards this morning and every body's upset
about Stringer," said Simon. "All I can tell you is the only way the
writers can figure out how to make the stories matter is to not make
characters matter more than the stories."

On Sunday, there is more closure and another character is put out to
pasture, though not in a predictable way.

"If we have to end here, I'll be sad," said Simon. "There is a lot
more I want to say. It took a lot to create this fictional universe of
Baltimore and there's a lot more to say."

But "The Wire" has been criticized for its labyrinthine plot lines;
its liberal use of urban vernacular has also stymied some viewers. But
HBO has made a habit of nurturing esoteric series.

"This show would have been canceled after four episodes anywhere
else," said Simon. "If [HBO] says, 'Nice try, but we're going to go
with something else,' then they say it. Does that mean I have even the
slightest regret that I didn't make the show simpler or dumbed it down
or made the cast more white? Absolutely not."

If "The Wire" makes it to fourth season, said Simon, he plans to
explore the failures of the public education system in Baltimore.

"Like a lot of cities," he said, "we have a remarkably dysfunctional
school system, one that puts the lie to the idea that if you want to
walk away from the street, you can just put your head down and do
what's right. You start to get the impression that the children of
this city are being raised by the drug corners, that this is a school
system that fits with a society where the drug trade is the best deal
of its generation."

But he may not get the chance. The overwhelming success of "The
Sopranos" has changed the climate at HBO.

"Because of 'The Sopranos' breakout hit status," said Simon,
"expectations have changed." The days when a dark prison drama like
"Oz" could survive several seasons may be coming to a close, according
to Simon.

"There was no angst about ['Oz'] ratings," said Simon. "It was what it
was. There was a commitment to storytelling, even if it was
idiosyncratic storytelling. Now I'm going up against 'Desperate
Housewives.'

"What could have gone up against 'Desperate Housewives'? 'Desperate
Housewives' is pretty. I'm not about pretty."

The Wire Has Been Renewed For A Fourth Season!

"The critically acclaimed, Peabody Award-winning HBO drama series THE WIRE has been renewed for a fourth season, it was announced today by Carolyn Strauss, president, HBO Entertainment. The 12-episode fourth season will begin shooting in late 2005, with debut set for 2006.

With the Barksdale investigation concluded, the fourth season of THE WIRE will expand its focus to include a look at the role of the educational system in an urban environment."

WOOHOO! WOOHOO! God I have been waiting for this!

I KNEW that the news was at the end of this thread... hadn't heard elsewhere... and I literaly held my breath as I scrolled down to the bottom.

YES!

Thanks for making my day!

I am very glad to hear this!

I just finished watching Season 1 on DVD and I'm completely hooked. It's as good as any other HBO Show I've seen, maybe better. I appreciate the fact that there aren't really any perfect characters, so it's not such a clear cut good guy/bad guy drama. Also, it's fascinating to a get a glimpse of the departemental/political pressures that police must face on these types of cases constantly.

Season 2 is already on it's way via Netflix.

I think it's going to be interesting to see how the show adapts to what appears to be a very different setting. Also, the show is clearly going to be down some major characters, as Bell & Barksdales stories are about as finished as is possible. Season 2 added a completely different storyline seamlessly, so I have faith they'll be able to do it without it feeling like a stretch.

As for techinicalities, I wonder how they'll write out McNulty if Dominic West doesn't return (he's reportedly "reluctant" to). I would think there are a lot of other technical issues to work out as well (Does Daniels indeed move to the Western? Does the unit dissolve? Does someone else take over the unit?)

Also, the mayoral race storyline was pretty much just picking up steam, so they could certainly keep running with that as the "B" story.

I hadn't seen a single episode before about a month ago, and now I've watched all 3 seasons. All-in-all this is one of the finest TV shows I've ever seen, and immediately jumped into the the very small clusters of TV shows I consider myself a die-hard fan of. And I think i'd even say this bumps off Deadwood as (IMHO) the very best of the HBO series. I look forward to season 4, even as the pessimistic side of me knows that's when most TV shows really seem to start losing their grip.

Good to know the show has won over another convert. It really is great.

Just a heads up: The first season of The Wire will be on On Demand starting April 25.

Just got finished watching Season 1 of The Wire on DVD over the long weekend, just wow. I already thought it was the best show currently on TV, but watching the episodes close together like that really reinforced my opinion. It's amazing to me how good the show is, the storytelling, acting, everything.

Episodes 15-20 are playing this month. The more I watch this show, the more amazed I am by it. The Wire is the best show I have ever seen. The casting and the writing in particular are absolutely top notch.

I would like to see them expand the character of Lester, the detective that was often seen carving dollhouse furniture in the first season. He is a fairly major character but we haven't gotten much of a view into his life.