So.. I have been working on a football simulation
 

I'm not using the word 'game' here, because I think the more accurate word is 'simulation'. I've been working on it little by little for the last several months, and wanted to put a feeler out there.

What I'm creating is a football simulation WITH graphics - something that does not really exist right now. But this thing is not a game. It would be realistic in every conceivable way. If a fat defensive tackle picks up a fumble and runs 80 yards, he will get tired, gasping for breath, and slowing down drastically, maybe even falling down towards the end. Players can trip and fall, Two receivers can have the same speed, but one might be able to accelerate faster, and one just may run the wrong route on a play, because he hasn't fully learned the playbook. You may have a star who doesn't like to stay in shape, so he slowly deteriorates physically.

I've already completed the player generation and scouting. Players are rated 0-119 in each attribute, divided into 3 categories: Football skills, Physical Skills, and mental/behavior attributes - but you only see a broader summary value of each - (0-11). Ratings are seen through scouts, who also have a scouting error - see screenshot below to see examples of ratings and how the scale works.

I'm working on this thing piece by piece, 1 football fundamental at a time. If the players can't accelerate and decelerate properly when they run, nothing else matters. I've got that down. I'm working on kicking right now. Next would be throwing. Then after that blocking, etc.

My question to you: Would the graphics below suffice? And would a simulation with simple art and simple animation be good for you? And would it be something you would buy?

Awesome!


I'd personally be fine with that graphics 2D engine, if the stats behind it work.

Is that Java?

I will be honest. If you we're going to turn this into a commercial venture, then the graphics would have to improve.

Nice, I am with Abe, if the sim engine is functional and the graphics match the play, all is good.

And if you do College, I would buy 2 :)

If the sim engine was solid and it becomes a game (roster management over the length of a career, etc,) I would buy it in a minute. If it is just a simulator without career management of a roster, then I would pass.

Guess I didn't make that clear :)

It will have everything we all come to expect a modern football game to have in terms of roster management and multi-year management, college drafts, etc. I have actually already written the player progression logic.

They will have rookies that all but the very best scouts will overlook (i.e. hidden gems). They will have college players that are just plain studs coming out of college, but have no work ethic, or just don't have the football IQ (see screenshot above for this rating) to succeed at the next level (i.e. busts).

Awesome. I thought that is what you were talking about but wanted to clarify. Look forward to seeing how this progresses. Graphics are fine for my taste.

I would definitely be fine with everything you've shown. One quick idea, for the screen of player talents, since you are using green for one of the talent levels go with a different color background (if possible and not too much work). But you would definitely have a buyer here.

Yea, that ratings screen is just a mock-up screen that I used for integration testing of the player generation algorithm, so it will definitely be tightened up and improved, and is by no means the final layout. The only thing about that screen that I would say is definite is the icons used for showing the ratings 0-11.

Those graphics are fine for my tastes as well. I remember xor nfl challenge. I could play that game for hours on end. I don't need fancy graphics. I would buy this in a second or as long as it took to type in my cc information.

This is nice if you have a demo you are willing to show this sounds like a good game to buy.

please be real please be real please be real please be real please be real please be real please be real please be real please be real please be real please be real please be real

I would buy what you say you are building.

Very exciting. I'm sure most here are salivating at the possibility. Would love to see a 2D model built into a career mode game.

The green needs to be toned down. The circles around the stats make me want to punch something. It's way too much of a strain on the eyes.

Glad to see that there would at least be some interest.

About the ratings screen,as I've said, it is just a quick mock-up I did for testing of player generation, and it is definitely gonna be cleaned up and refined.

Currently working on the animation for when a ball is kicked off, if I can figure out how to post a video, I will post that when I'm done.

I like what I see so far. I do not need fancy graphics and would definitely be interested in buying this.

O'd buy it, but to be honest i'd be a lot happier with two differently colored circles than the top down view of helmet and pads used now...For some reason its ...disconcerting

Maybe even just the helmets but no pads would work for me.

Im in. I actually think you could go one way or the other with the graphics to suffice. Take it down to circles with numbers perhaps their name below their circle or whatever or make them better.

Ditto, only X's and O's, but I loved watching each play unfold in front of my eyes. That was THE Football sim back in the day.

Well, the reason I like taking it one small step beyond just circles is:

1. Adds a small amount of customization for the players and their teams (players can customize helmet/jersey color).

2. You can tell what direction players are facing. This adds alot, IMO.

I think if I can get the player movements working good I can convince players that this 1 extra level of detail is best for this sim. :)

You can do facing by putting a representation of facemasks on the helmets too..

This reminds me too much of robots.

Insta-buy. Yes, very much so.

FINALLY something potentially on the horizon.

I think the graphics are fine for development purposes, but I would pay a graphics designer once the game is developed to build a good interface / graphics around your game. The sales you would get from that would more then make up for the cost of paying this person I would think.

I agree. I think it would look better against a white/off-white background - it would be easier at a glance to tell the color is within the circle. As it is, if I stare at that screen and look away I see spots.

I was thinking an off-white background as well. I don't even need the colored circles. I like tables that use different shaded backgrounds for every other line like this.



It's just a nice clean look. I don't need the numbers to be colored in some way to stand out.

Yeah, I cant read most of those numbers. The pastel yellows and greens and oranges on that green background makes it impossible for me. But I have bad eyes.

i would buy this...i always loved watching the play by play in TCY...if there were actual graphics to go with that, i would be all over it.

Def interested...like many others have said...if the stats/progression stuff works correctly it would be a no brainer.

I got a private communication from Shane about this, and I debated whether to respond privately or publicly, and I think I want to do so publicly as food for thought for any other developers who might read this.

I think it is a massive mistake for a solo part-time developer (and maybe even full-time solo developer) to attempt to create a football text sim with a 2D engine. 2D presentation is fine, but every attempt I've seen at making the actual results engine 2D (and there have been several) has resulted in significant statistical problems.

So, I'm interested if the stats are up to snuff, but I have very little reason to believe the stats will be up to snuff. (That's no offense intended to Shane's abilities. I just don't believe it can be done by any one person in a reasonable amount of time.)

Beyond that, for a career sim, I don't have the time or patience to watch every game play out in 2D. MAYBE the Championship game some years, but I would doubt even that. So the reality is that the primary selling point of the game is a feature that I don't see myself using.

Completely agree with this, this is the sort of thing that everyone claims they really really want, and claims will make their lives so much better, but at the end of the day isn't anywhere near worth it. It's the sort of feature that gets a high-star review for someone who has spend 20 minutes with the game, but tends to undercut the people who'd like to spend 20 months with it.

I'd be delighted if the imaging stuff worked, but I hope it doesn't derail what could otherwise be a promising effort.

Basically, if it's a marriage of FOF engine and XOR graphics, I'm in.

Didn't someone else announce an intention to do something similar a year or two ago? Gary Gorski maybe?

My sense is that the path to developing a good football sim game is a bit like heading up Mt. Everest...along the way you run into the various strewn bodies of earlier travelers who left with the same intentions but fell short for various reasons.

This might be the greatest simile in the history of FOFC.

No kidding, nice one, QS.

All the more reason for Jim to stop making stupid shit and make another FOF. :D

Except that a majority of the bodies on Everest (or other 8000+ meter peaks) are climbers that actually reached the summit but never made it down. I guess that would like having released a playable product but it could never be sustained or successul in the long-run.

There was an online version like but I forgot what it was called. A bunch of us here were in the league, which you had pay money for, but it didn't have any legs for the same reasons QS gave.

Daivd Winter laughs at such folly

A graphical football sim, you betcha!

Great points by many people on this. This is definitely a lofty goal - but it is achievable. The biggest hurdle for me (and any other solo part-time developer) is time.

BUT - if anyone can do it, it is me. I have been developing software for 25 years, and I have been a football nut since birth. I think at the very least, it will be fun to see a football game grow piece by piece, with community involvement along the way.

I've got the player generation/progression working, I got a professional 2d engine, and I'm top of it. :)

Hopefully I'll have a video of a kickoff in the next couple of days. :)

I agree with Todzilla - a marriage of XOR and FOF works just fine for me.

Shane - if you've neve seen the presentation of XOR football, please check it out. It's just Xs and Os, but it's perfect for a 2D presentation of the sport. It would probably be a lot easier for you to code and could be more attractive than your screenshot above.

F*** yeah. I'm rooting for ya.

I'll buy.

Bummed out that I'm now clearly the 2nd most important Shane on this forum

Can we change your handle to ShaneTheApprentice?

What engine are you using? I've been messing around with Unity3D over the last year or two. Before that it was Torque. C# is my preferred language to code in now, which is the main reason I started using Unity.

XNA framework - (which XBOX games use)

I'd buy this. Good luck!