I'll let the DA know.

As for henry, it's a dangerous game he's playing. He claims to be the seer, which is a possibility, but why out yourself so early?

1) This is Neon_Chaos running the game, and we don't know what to expect from him.
2) Last time most of the important villager roles got nuked early, and it was a bloodbath. Dare we risk that happening again by henry outing himself if he really is the seer?
3) With the presence of a wolf in the game, we don't necessarily know the truth if he dies in a night action. We still haven't gotten an answer to whether or not the wolf and the Mafia know each other.

I'm willing to give henry the benefit of the doubt for now, just because there's so much we don't know,

Its alittle quiet around here.

Wow. Did not see that coming. So I'm gonna guess we are probably looking at 2 mafiosos and 2 wolves?

With the number of people starting the game, there could possibly be a sorceror out there as well. There are too many unknowns at this point.

I'm going to be pretty sparse with my participation today, because I have an important paper to write -- it's for my "comprehensive evaluation" to decide if I get to stay in the PhD program here.

I can't really say that I have any insight, other than that it looks like our odds of randomly picking off a bad guy just went up. :p It's still very much a crapshoot, and if there were any patterns worthy of note yesterday, I didn't see them (but then, my record isn't all that good when I do see patterns...).

I'm not inclined to go after Henry, at the moment. Down the road, maybe we need to worry about another Blade-like play, but I think it's a day too early to be worrying about that.

I would like to add that putting both wolves and mafia in one game is a brilliant move. :D

There was a "turncoat" identified as an initial role. With dual bad guy types, some "sorceror" type wouldn't be a shock either.

After the experience with Blade and Illinifan in the last game I don't believe anyone about their roles anymore. I have a really hard time believing Henry is a seer and would already out himself.

It is a very interesting play. I think its alittle fishy as well and could possibly be following along the lines of Blade from last game.

As do I. We aren't getting anywhere right now. I'll walk out there.

Vote henry296

I'll change my vote if there's information to the contrary, but something doesn't feel right about henry in that he would allude or out himself so early.

i just don't see what he has to gain

I am really surprised that as many people took my comment that I am surprised to be alive as an admission of being the seer. However, those of you that did are very perceptive. I am one of the investigators and the reason I can come clean today is that I was able to find one of the mafia last night during my investigations.

My early morning vote for SackAttack was because I investigated him last night and discovered a gun in his room. He is a member of the mafia.

The reason I made my comments yesterday about blade, was because he was my night zero investigation. With his reputation, I wanted to be sure of his status. Very good of digamma to pick up on my hint yesterday. I guess subtlety is not my greatest strength.

I am not playing games. I am out looking for the mafia and found my initial accuser SackAttack to be one of them. I encourage everyone to trust me and vote to hang him tonight.

ok, I am by no means defending sackAttack, having been falsely "outed" last game I am a little leary of jumping all over someone when an accusation is made.

As I have been saying, I belive Henry is the investigator and am leaning towards beliving him, my only question is this

Isn't it possible the retired police officer has a gun?

Interesting point.

At this point I'm also hesitant to jump on any bandwagons after what blade pulled with bek last game. I'm also thinking along the lines of Lathum too because it seems as though the retired police officer could have a gun too. Plus, with all the twists Neon is throwing at us, we have to be careful of who we are accusing here. My suspicion meter has definately increased towards Sack however.

I agree, that some clarification here would be nice.

However, the way I see it, every time more momentum goes toward lynching henry, he comes up with a bigger and bigger surprise. Does seem a little shady, to me.

I do think at this point, we can't risk lynching someone who might pick out another bad guy (wolf or mafia) for us. I'm leaning SackAttack for the moment, because it's basically the only thing we have to go on.

Before I change my vote, did you find a gun and he's a member of the mafia or did you find a gun and conclude he's a member of the mafia? Big difference.

Also, you didn't come out and defend yourself until I voted for you, although you've read the thread a few times today. Strange.

henry's statements leave us with two possibilites
1. he is telling the truth, and we should hang sackattack tonight
2. he is lying, which has numerous permutations.

i would have to think about this, and one thing that does interest me is the fact that sackattack was very concerned last night about making sure the voting record was correct, in a way wanting to make sure no un-needed attention was brought on himself as someone responsible for a lynching. to me, the people that are trying to hide are the ones that ususally have something worthy of hiding, so i will take henry at his word tonight, and if he is lying, he will get his tommorrow

vote: sackattack

Here's a question for Neon. Can the Investigator check to see if the villagers are wolves as well?

dola...

but that doesnt mean i still dont wonder about why raidersarmy was so intent on confirmation of the seers' identity...maybe something for henry to look at if he isnt lying and lives through the night

This is an interesting piont as well.

Interesting new development. Henry has a history in past mafia games of havin ghis role revealed early so it's nothing really new this time. I'd still like to hear what Sack has to say before I decide.

Didn't the mafia just hang someone? No one has died by gunshot yet, have they?

well it was fun all...remember stir up trouble :)

At this point, the numbers are very much in our favor as far as going along with Henry. Late in the game, it may not be feasible to do a one-for-one trade if he proves untrustworthy, but I think it's a worthwhile risk to take right now -- and not a substantial risk, at that.

Vote SackAttack

Er, wait. "Has a gun" could indicate police, too. I'm going to back off until I get further clarification.

Unvote SackAttack

While I agree that timing of the revelation can certainly be questioned, we don't have much else to go on at this point in the game.

Vote SackAttack.

i would hope neon chaos would make it a little easier to tell the cop, like having a badge, medals, or a picture of the officer in uniform(every cop i know has one of these in their house) in his room, instead of just a gun, so i am sticking with my original vote.

During my nightly investigation, I went into Sack's room, saw the insignia of the mob and a gun. As the investigator I am told the role of each person I investigate. Blade is a villager and SackAttack is with the mafia.

Uh...didn't I spell that out enough for ya, saladana, Lakum's friend?

Okay then.

unvote henry296
Vote Sackattack

You'd better be right, matey.

Dola, I'm gone for a bit, but I'll check back in before I go home.

Every time there is a "nothing else to go on statement", things usually turn out bad for us (aka we lynch a villager). I'd rather think about this a little further before blindly following henry, and lynching SackAttack.

Good point Saldana, I wasn't thinking all that clearly. But Henry's reply also tells me what I wanted to know, that it was a "conviction" rather than an "inference" that SackAttack is mafia.

Vote SackAttack

I know the consequences if I am wrong and I wouldn't be willing to take that chance.

I'm going to have to go with henry on this one. I believe him and I feel the risk/reward ratio is still good at this point.

Vote SackAttack

unvote Henry I would like to hear Sack's defense as well before I recast my vote.

Dola -- Almost everything adds up here, and while there is a counter explanation, which is why I wait to hear from Sack before condemning him, I guess I'm just happy that despite the slight slip-up of henry yesterday that neither of the evil factions even attempted to kill him.

Does anyone know if Sack will be on? I know he has class some days and stuff. I'm also interested to explain his defense.

I to am going to hold off until I hear Sack's defense.

So what you are saying is if SackAttack comes out and claims he is the retired officer than we should all believe him...

dola - We have already given him his"out" and he would dumb not to try and take it.

All I am saying is in the last game I had the mask of lies which made me look like a werewolf to the seer when I was really a villager and before I had a chance to defend myself the bandwagon had started and we lost a villager. I just don't want to make a hasty descion.

Vote sackattack

RA, I meant I don't know which way to vote. If henry is telling the truth, then we have a way to vote now. :)

Ok of course he's going to say "No he's evil not me". It's how he presents his evidence that's important. I made the mistake once of rushing to judgement (see my quick vote for henry) before I listened for an explanation. I don't want to do it again.

FYI, this is the exact same thing you said about my "seer role reveal" last game...and it couldnt have been further off...like poker, you have to tell the truth some times so you can bluff other times...dont rely too much on the past or you will be taken for a fast one like i pulled last game...now, i tend to believe him since i know im a villager...and i guess i take him scanning me on night one a compliment that im a good player everyone has to watch out for.

Im weary, but for the sole reason that he got my role right im going to trust him for now...henry partially saved my village ass yesterday, and he did it after knowing i was good...so for now hes on my innocent till proven guilty team...

If you guys'll notice, two folks had screwed up votes last night. Mine was one of them, certainly, but I think it's important to keep things absolutely straight for everybody. False aspersions can lead to innocent deaths, and nobody wants that.

As for henry's accusation, I'm a little bit curious why he's deciding to center on me. On the basis of a first-day vote? He just all of a sudden decides I'm fishy and that I need to be investigated?

That presumes he's even telling the truth about his role.

Consider further that we have the revelation of multiple "bad guy" factions right now. The Mafia and, quite likely, a Werewolf.

Now let's say that henry is a seer or the Investigator, or whatever you please. In light of the information that there are *two* factions to beware of, what does it benefit henry to reveal his role on day two, knowing that at *best*, it means he's taking down one of three or four bad guy roles (and do we really know that of the 17 remaining villagers, that only three or four are bad guys)?

Could there be other factions whose roles have yet to be revealed that are more than just 'simple villagers'? The Mafia are in to take over the town. How do we know there aren't two Mob factions, rival gangs, if you will?

Finally, what did I do last game? I provided analysis, I was outspoken, and my hypothesis was eventually proven correct. If henry is lying, doesn't it become possible that he maybe wants me out of the game before I can deduce the truth about him?

I can claim my innocence, but what good does that really do? Either you believe I'm a useful asset to the villagers and that henry is making an inexplicable play, or you believe that henry is true and correct, in which case it becomes a matter of "methinks the lady doth protest too much."

henry's making a mistake, and I think he might be making more than one mistake. That's just me, though.

Incidentally, I'm done with class for the day, but I am working on writing a couple of newspaper articles for the school paper. I'll be checking in throughout the day to see what's going on.

Not good enough for me.

Vote SackAttack

What else to do here?

vote sackattack

I think if you were inclined to vote for me in the first place, there isn't anything I could have said that would have been good enough for you.

"Oh, look, henry's not the seer, I am! I investigated HIM last night, and he's the Mafia member, not me!"

Would that have been good enough?

"henry sure has a hairy back, if you know what I mean."

how about that?

My point is, if you're already leaning towards believing him to begin with, I'm really not sure what proof would have swayed you. All I'd say is the last time we had a guy claiming to be a seer, he turned out to be a member of the Mafia trying to confuse the issue.

The 'symbol of the Mafia' is an interesting choice of words, too. If the Mafia are coming *into* this town, how would he recognize it to begin with? Why would the Mob have a sigil anyway? Seems like a great way to get killed if you're trying to lay low.

But that's probably not enough to convince you either, because you're predisposed to take his side in the matter.