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WSUCougar 10-11-2005 05:00 PM

Parents Anonymous, FOFC Branch
 
I know there are many other parents here at FOFC, so I thought I’d start a casual dynasty thread where we could share our stories. Good stuff, bad stuff, frustrations, joys, questions…anything goes.

Hopefully, we can build a decent group of participants, and it could make for some entertaining reading. To the non-parents out there, beware…some of this stuff can be a tad scary. And gross. But anyway…

WSUCougar 10-11-2005 05:00 PM

I’ll go first. My name is WSUCougar, and I’m a parent. *tearful sniffling*

My son’s name is Drew, and he is closing in on his 4th birthday. He’s an awesome kid, and I love him dearly. Here are some recent tidbits:

• He is finally over the hump in terms of pooping on the potty. This has been a struggle without many glimmers of hope, but suddenly we’re there, as everyone promised would happen. There are still some “technical difficulties” to cope with, but we will face those without looking back. This was a huge relief and a joyous moment.
• We promised Drew a “real train ride” as a reward for his potty rite-of-passage. He has always loved trains. The curious thing is that he once loved Thomas the Tank Engine videos, but got freaked out last year when one of the nasty engines got very physical. Since then, he claims very firmly, “I don’t like Thomas.” He still plays with the train set, but will not watch the videos or the TV show. As an aside, I find it strange that it’s for kids but some of the characters and “messages” aren’t very good. Lots of anger, jealousy, and revenge, for example. Ah well.
• PBS Kids just switched their format and schedule, to our utter dismay and disgust. They call themselves “PBS Kids Sprout” now, and all of the favorite shows aren’t on at the right times anymore. Grrrrr.
• Drew is trying YMCA soccer, and it has been a test for me. Granted, this is VERY basic stuff for 3-4 year olds. Basically stretch some, kick the ball around a cone, listen to the coach, and run around. But my son’s reactions have frustrated me…which is something I will need to learn to cope with. He won’t do a lot of what the coach says, and starts boo-hooing at the drop of a hat. Lots of kids are having similar reactions, but it still grates on me. At least this past Saturday he got a bit more involved. Small steps.
• Lots of contrary talk and “But…” responses lately. Seems to be trying to establish control over things. Gets PISSED when things get forced on him.
• Halloween is coming, and Drew is jazzed. He wants to be a black cat.
• When I see my son smile his real, joyful smile it makes me feel unlike any other feeling in my life.

Radii 10-11-2005 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar
• Drew is trying YMCA soccer, and it has been a test for me. Granted, this is VERY basic stuff for 3-4 year olds. Basically stretch some, kick the ball around a cone, listen to the coach, and run around. But my son’s reactions have frustrated me…which is something I will need to learn to cope with. He won’t do a lot of what the coach says, and starts boo-hooing at the drop of a hat. Lots of kids are having similar reactions, but it still grates on me. At least this past Saturday he got a bit more involved. Small steps.



Great idea, I'm sure my wife will be a frequent contributor here and I'll drop by quite a bit as well.


I just deleted a *huge* reply when I realized most of what I typed was about my kid and not yours, when my intent was to reply to what you're saying about your son :)

I felt the same frustration when I first entered my son's life(he was 5). Boo-hoo'ing and running to mommy at every bump and scratch, and more importantly to me, not sitting with the team when he wasn't on the field, bugged me an awful lot. The first year I watched him play the kids that were "on the bench" actually ran up a hill to a playground near a field and palyed there when they weren't in the game if allowed, or they played on the hill, rolling down it, etc. Remembering my days in T-ball at age 6, this frustrated me a lot.


I found that the best thing I could do was to very gently start to instill the ideas of team spirit, and of getting up and playing on when you got a little bump. He's 8 years old now and i'm sure mostly through just getting older and maturing, but also through my wife's and my encouragement, he's becoming quite a warrior on the field. I have not once this season(and I am his assistant coach, so i hear most everything all the kids say) heard him complain or whine when he gets bumped or knocked over, and not once has he run in the direction of his mom when he comes off the field, he comes over to the coaches and hangs out with the team. I'm as proud of these things as I am the fact that he's becoming a good little soccer player. But this is now 5 or 6 soccer seasons down the road from where we started. It's a very slow, but steady process.

Like you said, small steps. It'll take a number of seasons, and the kids around him maturing, and the coaches actively trying to keep the kids on the sideline with the team, and not with the parents, to see major progress there, but it'll come.

ibnsgirl 10-11-2005 05:48 PM

Cool idea, WSUCougar! I have been on quite a few parent-oriented forums, but they were all geared towards moms. As a mom, that's fine, but there is no guy's input. I look forward to actually hearing the "dad" side of the story.

Anyway, I'm Lucy's mom and TonyR's wife. We barely have this parent thing down as Lucy is just shy of 14 weeks old.

Been an interesting ride, so far. Not quite sleeping through the night. Little stuff sends her wailing. Constantly covered in spit-up. But all of that is offset by this little miracle's coo's and smiles! Definately the smiles!

Lucy is already in the works to be a soccer player. She was using my ribs to practice on long before she was born. She's even got her favorite player: Ilkka Vitkainen, one of the players on my Hattrick team. She loves the word "ilkka." We've got a long way to go before soccer practice! :)

WSUCougar 10-11-2005 06:02 PM

Cool! Participants!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii
The first year I watched him play the kids that were "on the bench" actually ran up a hill to a playground near a field and palyed there when they weren't in the game if allowed, or they played on the hill, rolling down it, etc. Remembering my days in T-ball at age 6, this frustrated me a lot.

I had to smile at this. My son and two of his friends were playing a falling down game in the midst of the soccer scrimmage. The ball and a horde of 3-year-olds goes churning by, and there's Drew, Matthew, and John giggling at each other and falling down in dramatic fashion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibnsgirl
We barely have this parent thing down as Lucy is just shy of 14 weeks old.

Oh wow...the Dark Times. :o

Just kidding. You'll make it through with flying colors, and then for the rest of your parenting days you'll look back on that time and go, "Well, at least it's not as hard as THAT time period!" :D

MacroGuru 10-11-2005 07:03 PM

Awesome...

I forgot what dealing with a baby was like....

Imagine to my dismay when my wife breaks the news on New Years we are pregnant, considering I had the procedure done....

9 months later, the little tyke is here, and things couldn't be better, except, I forgot that baby's wake up at night.

Now the other task is the 8 and 5 year old. They are both striving for attention from mom.

prime examples
  • 8 year old kicks the 5 year old in the face this morning, and claims....it was an accident
  • 5 year old likes to sneak into the pantry and take food to the neighborhood kids, we are now the 7-11 of the block
  • Halloween is awesome around our house, thanks to the wife, and she has the kids as excited as she is, and we are going to be a dead pirate family........with the baby being our pet monkey.
  • Oh...and they both seem to think money grows on trees, the 8 year old said she wanted a credit card so she could by anything she wants, which produced a WTF? response from me, and she received a very boring education on credit and what it is all about...

Breeze 10-11-2005 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indoorsoccersim
she received a very boring education on credit and what it is all about...[/list]



I wonder how many of these she'll need before she finally gets it? :D

I have 3 kids, a 5 year old boy and two 3 year olds, one of each. I'm sure I'll be posting here too.

Our biggest problem right now is taking turns talking. Man you'd think our house was the stock exchange with all the racket as each kid tries to talk over the other one.

For Halloween, we are going as 2 knights and a princess (pink princess to be more precise). We were going to be a Dragon, Knight and Princess, but when the 3 year old boy realized he wouldn't get a sword if he were a dragon, he changed his mind.

Radii 10-11-2005 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indoorsoccersim
[*]Oh...and they both seem to think money grows on trees, the 8 year old said she wanted a credit card so she could by anything she wants, which produced a WTF? response from me, and she received a very boring education on credit and what it is all about...



I went to the ATM yesterday to get some cash with my son in the car. He said "at least this isn't our money like the money at home." He explained that the money that came out of the machine was free money for everyone to use, and that the money from my job was all at home for things like eating out.

oliegirl 10-11-2005 08:16 PM

This is a great idea! I love that we'll have somewhere to vent, and to tell stories about our kids (good or bad) without non-parent people getting sarcastic and making "I don't care" comments...they just don't get it!

I am sure once I think about it I'll have lots of things to add, but for now, I'll just say that the kid radii is talking about is my kid - Anthony...I was a single mom for 6 years until I got lucky and radii proposed (I knew if I waited long enough the right guy would come along!). Anthony is wonderful - most of the time...like any child he has his moments when I want to kill him, but for the most part they are few and far between.

sachmo71 10-11-2005 11:31 PM

Have to get me some of this.

I have two wonderful children. My daughter is 3, named Sydney.
My son, 2, is Max.

There are a multiple issues right now that we are dealing with.
Max is being potty trained. I guess I never thought about the challenges of potty training a boy, but I never thought about the stand up factor. So my wife read up on it, and the key seems to be putting him on the toilet backwards, so he is facing the potty like he will be when he's standing up, but had most of the bowl to aim for. We aren't using training potty's, because it worked better for my daughter on a normal toilet and so we'll see how it goes with my son. Also, he is in speech therapy because he was a little delayed, and he is talking up a storm. It's a wonderful feeling when the kids start putting words together and you can actually get some feedback from them. My favorite words are "football", "hockey man", and "boo" (his bear)

Sydney is a handful, and then some. We started both of our kids out at a home daycare, with an older lady who would watch them all day. It was relaxed, and there was no real learning activities...she was more of a babysitter, but she was within our budget and she loved the kids. At about 2, she started biting. Not much, but it happened one day. One of my friends decided to take his daughter there, because we recommended her and the price was right. For the five days his daughter was there, Sydney bit her every day. It was horrible!
So we would try to tell her not to do it anymore, but what can you say to a two year old when you aren't "on the scene"?
Anyway, so we took her to a day school, and things started out fine. She was learning at a very rapid pace, and everyone seemed happy. Then, she started biting kids. Every day it seemed, she would bite someone. We talked to the headmaster, who is also a psychologist. He gave us some tips, and never overtly blaming us, but the gist of his advice was that the child will do what the parents let them do. In our minds, we were BAD PARENTS.
So we tried his advice, and I have to admit, things got a little better, but I think we lost focus. Finally, she bit a kid so bad that their parents delivered an ultimatum...it was Sydney gone or her kid gone. So Sydney was out.
:(
Thankfully, he kept working with us, in the hopes of her getting back in. We tried everything that he said to do. Walks when she lost her temper. The 5 rules. EVERYTHING. Finally, he let her back in. And it worked out well...for a while.

She started biting again, and not listening to the teachers. Every day we would get a report on what she was doing wrong, etc. Neither my wife nor I wanted to show our faces in the place. The guy must have thought we were the worst parents in the world, perhaps only a bit less than we did. Failures. Losers. My mindset at the time was that my wife and I together were possibly causing more damage to our kids than we would apart. I was actually comtemplting a seperation to see if that will help. Desperate, eh?

Finally, they told us she had to leave for good. Talk about a kick in the jumblies. She had lots of friends at that school, but it was just too much for them to handle. We didn't know what to do. So we scrambled to find her a new place, which we did after a couple of days. We also started seeing a family councelor to help us, as we were obviously in dire need.

The counceling has helped tremendously. The doctor first tried to get everyone to calm down a bit, and that helped settle Sydney down. He told us that she seemed overstimulated, so much so that he was afraid she was borderline autistic. His main focus was alone time with one or the other of us, less stimulation (which meant removing many of the gobs of toys from the playroom), and lots and lots of praise.
It's been wonderful. We still have our moments, and she will always be a high strung kid, mostly because he says she has above average intelligence and gets frusterated with her own limitations. But it's been almost two weeks at school with hardly a peep from her, and when she does misbehave, she is quick to apologize, and best of all...NO BITING.
The thing that surprised me was how often he stops to tell my wife and I what a good job we are doing, which we really needed. He's not afraid to tell us where we are lacking, but he says that most parents he deals with are resistant to his advice, and usually the behavioral problems are caused by some sort of family dysfunction. It was really good to hear that we weren't horrible parents. It's been a rough couple of years with all of that blame heaped on top of us.

So things are definately looking up for us.

As an aside, is anyone else starting to worry about this damn bird flu? I try and try to resist the media monkey fest, but when I start hearing "casualty projections" and "6 months before a cure", I start to sweat a little.

oliegirl 10-11-2005 11:47 PM

Quote:

As an aside, is anyone else starting to worry about this damn bird flu? I try and try to resist the media monkey fest, but when I start hearing "casualty projections" and "6 months before a cure", I start to sweat a little.

Funny you should mention that - yesterday morning, I found a bird lying chest down on our front porch. At first I thought it was dead, but then realized it was breathing very rapidly...I managed to pick it up and put in a box with some tissue paper and leaves/pine straw, by then it was standing but still breathing very rapidly. I took it to a local vet and they said they would check it and if it was suffering, put it down...it didn't occur to me until after the fact that I should have been more cautious...I doubt this bird was infected with bird flu, but it did enter my mind as I was scrubbing my hands clean! I haven't heard from the vet's office, and I am sure if they were suspicious of something they would have contacted me, so I am not worried (anymore) :|

PilotMan 10-12-2005 12:43 AM

I have to say that this is a very cool idea. I have already enjoyed what the rest of you have written.

I am a dad of 3. My oldest is Cole, he is 10. Then there is Zachary who is 3 and Ean who is 2.

Cole is my wife's from before we met, however, I have known him since he was 2, and I am the only Dad that he has ever had. I officially adopted him after we were married. Zach and Ean are my firsts.

We are in the first year of homeschooling Cole. I was finally fed up with the school system here. It just was not working for Cole. Cole has inattentive - ADD, which means that he has a very difficult time staying on task unless he gets his meds. For him it's like trying to watch a TV show, while someone else is changing the channel. Hard to stay focused. It has been a challenge at times, but I can see that we are working toward our goal of getting him to work on his own, and learn the study skills that he is going to need to succeed. Those were the things that he was really missing and that we are trying to give him. When we go to the library and are checking out books about the revolutionary war and he is legitimatly excited about the subject you feel like you are on the right path.

Cole is not a big sports person. Much to my dismay.
Cole has a terrible time remembering things - part of the ADD. Frustrating......
Cole reads like you wouldn't believe. He devours books.

Zach is the ring leader of the whole crew. Even of Cole. He sets the tone for everyone. He is an anal, perfectionist, who loves trains, Thomas the Tank engine, and anything train related. He is a social butterfly, who can grab the attention of anyone around him. He likes to tell stangers that "He loves them" I get a kick out of that. He is stuttering a little, but it doesn't keep him from really communicating, and it is usually due to his mind working way faster than his mouth. And it comes out like he is really excited, "I-I-I-I saw the choo-choo!" We are not drawing attention to it, as he will likely grow out of it. He also loves anything that Cole does. He played soccer this summer and had fun. He is potty training at night, as the daytime is down solid now.

Ean is sly, sneaky, way too smart for his own good, "I can solve any problem that is in my way," little boy. He just turned 2, and is interested in potty training, but we aren't pushing it. It will come when it comes. Ean also has had his biting problems, but since he stays home, we just get to deal with it here. Most of it, it seems is that he is trying to communicate his desires and he is not being heard, so his reply is to bite. Zach is ususally the recipient. Ean is a brute. He is 18mo younger than Zach and at least as strong. He has actually hauled Zach up a hill in a wagon and Zach alone outweighs him by 5 pounds, not including the wagon! He is built like I am, big! He is tough, shrugs off most falls, and injuries. He fell from standing on a chair in the kitchen and cried for 3 seconds and got up and kept going. Scared him more than anything. He like Barney, and he wants to do anything that Zach does.

They are all best friends, and I get the feeling that they are forming the bonds right now, that they will share the rest of thier lives. We are very happy.

Of course, there is always a darker side. The company that I work for has gone into bankruptcy and I am awaiting word on how many pilots are going to be laid off. I think that I am safe for now, but with 5 mouths to feed, the pressure and stress is overwhelming. I will have more later or as things happen.

Sachmo...about the bird flu. No. There has yet to be a case in the US, and there is no idea when one will ever happen. The media wants to see you scared so that you will keep watching. Just live man. Remember how bad SARS was supposed to be. You are better off worrying about dying falling down the stairs or being in a car accident. At this point they are much more probable.

WSUCougar 10-12-2005 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachmo71
Every day we would get a report on what she was doing wrong, etc. Neither my wife nor I wanted to show our faces in the place. The guy must have thought we were the worst parents in the world, perhaps only a bit less than we did. Failures. Losers. My mindset at the time was that my wife and I together were possibly causing more damage to our kids than we would apart. I was actually comtemplting a seperation to see if that will help. Desperate, eh?

Wow, powerful emotions. I can totally relate to that “worst parent in the world” feeling. A remember a low point for me was very early on, when Drew was an infant and I was on leave while my wife had just gone back to work. Drew had this tendency to cry/scream in what we called “wildcat” fits, you know – the really worst ones - and one day he was on his FIFTH wildcat when I just lost it. I screamed back at him, cussed a lot, and started throwing pillows and stuff against the wall. In the end it was just a loud vent session, but I hated myself for quite awhile. I thought I was the worst father ever.

Quote:

It's been wonderful. We still have our moments, and she will always be a high strung kid, mostly because he says she has above average intelligence and gets frusterated with her own limitations. But it's been almost two weeks at school with hardly a peep from her, and when she does misbehave, she is quick to apologize, and best of all...NO BITING. The thing that surprised me was how often he stops to tell my wife and I what a good job we are doing, which we really needed. He's not afraid to tell us where we are lacking, but he says that most parents he deals with are resistant to his advice, and usually the behavioral problems are caused by some sort of family dysfunction. It was really good to hear that we weren't horrible parents. It's been a rough couple of years with all of that blame heaped on top of us.

So things are definately looking up for us.

Great news! I think it serves as strong grounding for a parent to realize daily that your kid isn’t the only one doing what they’re doing, and you’re not the only parent facing this. Seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan
When we go to the library and are checking out books about the revolutionary war and he is legitimatly excited about the subject you feel like you are on the right path.

Very cool!

Quote:

He is an anal perfectionist, who loves trains, Thomas the Tank engine, and anything train related.
Perfectly describes my son. :D

Quote:

Of course, there is always a darker side. The company that I work for has gone into bankruptcy and I am awaiting word on how many pilots are going to be laid off. I think that I am safe for now, but with 5 mouths to feed, the pressure and stress is overwhelming. I will have more later or as things happen.
Yes, please keep us apprised, and good luck with your current company. I assume you work for an airline? Tough industry that is hard to comprehend these days.

I have to say that becoming a parent sure changed my outlook on career. As a “provider” the safety net is gone. I have also become much more rooted despite being in an agency that favors relocation for promotion.

sachmo71 10-12-2005 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotman
Sachmo...about the bird flu. No. There has yet to be a case in the US, and there is no idea when one will ever happen. The media wants to see you scared so that you will keep watching. Just live man. Remember how bad SARS was supposed to be. You are better off worrying about dying falling down the stairs or being in a car accident. At this point they are much more probable.


Thanks very much...that eases the stress quite a bit. Stupid SARS. Funny about the media; the more gloom they put out, the less I want to watch. :)

FrogMan 10-12-2005 10:06 AM

ahhh, so this is where all the FOFC parents hang out, cool :)

Seriously, great idea WSUCougar. I've not read everyone's comments so far but I will and will probably comment on some of them. I will certainly come here to post every once in a while about my own kiddos.

I'm the lucky dad of two wonderful sons: Andrew and Matthew. While these names sound top 10 in the nation to most of you around here, I have to remind you I live in French speaking Quebec City, land of the Stéphane, François, and where Steve (my first name) is most often spelled Steeve, so they do stand out in a crowd around here :)

This could be long, here are some specifics about each of them...

Andrew:
  • Andrew was born in Pittsfield, MA, giving something special over his classmates: he has dual citizenship.
  • He's now eight and a half
  • A real bright kid but is a mover and shaker, always jumping around, not really hyperactive, but needs to move
  • He can be a real rebellious kiddo at times and that started very early on. The word "no" was often met with him doing exactly what we didn't want him to do. My sister, who has no kid but is trying to, will always tell that story of the day where he swatted a plant at my parents. I told him "no" once, he did it again a bit more fervently. "No Andrew, don't do that" and he was doing it a bit more roughly, but with two hands in the plant. All the way looking at me with a smug smile. I got up from the coucha at that point while saying firmly "Andrew, stop that" and he went all crazy on the poor plant. The plant survived though and we still laugh about it today.
  • He has been practicing kenpo karate since he was 5 and is now a blue belt w/green stripe. I started karate about a year after he did to be able to follow if whatever he was doing was about right, especially when he was practicing his forms for a competition. I needed to pick up a new sport after injuring my knee in football and karate offered a controlled environment in which I could go at my own pace. Our school offers parents/kids classes at the same time (in different room) so it was perfect. Turns out it motivated him quite a bit to keep going on and while I've now gotten to a higher belt than he is, he really wants to try and get to his next belt so he can get as close to me as possible. Kind of cool to come out of karate practice on a Saturday morning and ask him what he practiced and know what he's talking about. The one other sport with which this could have happened is hockey, but he was never really interested in it, oh the shame. Nah, not really :)
  • He also has been playing soccer in the Summer since he was 5 and WSUCougar (and Radii) I can understand what you both mean so easily. As I said, he's 8 but he still does the kind of thing that drive me nuts. This Summer, he played with the city U9 selection team as an 8yo, so with kids mostly one year older than him. At one point, I tried teaching him stuff after the game, like how to position himself and he kept telling me it was not how it had happened in the game (remember, I said rebellious) and I got fed up. Didn't offer advice for a couple of weeks. I try not to be too demanding of him, but if there'S one thing I won't accept, it's when he refuses to listen, or try. I will never ask of him to be the best of the best, only that he tries *his* best, that he gives his all when he does something.
  • Among other interests have been Thomas The Tank Engine (and train in general) for many years, although this has faded as he grew up. In the past few years, Spiderman has been his main thing with a major interest in Lego blocks, especially the Bionicle series. This past year has been mostly Star Wars, culminating in him disguising as Darth Vader for the upcoming halloween :)
  • He's in 3rd grade and does really well in school if not for the fact that he always has to keep his mouth in check. He tends to know the answer to most questions but often forgets to raise his hand to answer. This has meant many little communication from his teacher to that effect and many "challenges" to do better. I thinks the fact that he was a lonely child (and grandchild on either side) for the first 7 years of his life has made greedy with attention and he's gotten used to having all of it. We're still teaching him that it's not right to cut off two people who are talking (say me and my wife) just because you have something to say.

Matthew:
  • Matthew was born in Quebec and will turn 21 months old on Saturday.
  • While there's nearly a 7 year difference between him and his big brother, they do share a special bond. Matty is calling Andrew's name all the time, especially whenever he sees something that reminds him of Andrew.
  • He is quite the impersonator and he mimics about everything we do. Show him something once and he'll repeat it pretty easily. Probably because of that part of his nature, we find him quite a bit talkative, especially compared to what we remember Andrew being at his age. He repeats everything we say especially connecting stuff he sees with the person it belongs to or remind him. A soccer ball? Aaaannnnew. My sweater? Paapaa. My wife's slippers? Maaamaaan. Pretty funny. :)
  • He smiles when he sees me or Andrew practice a karate move or two. When I ask him if he does karate, he starts shaking his hands in a kind of block :)
  • We've not really started potty training him. The pot is in the first floor bathroom and he's sit on it a few times, even peeing in it a time or two. He seems aware of when his diaper is filthy as he will usually tap on it and say "caca", so I'd assume it will come in due time. We never really pressured Andrew to the potty training and while it did take a while, it was eventually done...
  • Since my wife and I both work, Matthew has to go to a daycare. It's a fairly big place, subsidized by the Quebec Government, so it's fairly cheap with good services. The one thing sad about it is that he's in a group of 10-12 kiddos. That's nice for socializing but bad with microbes and the like. He's already going through his second cold of the Fall season and we're only in mid-October. :( For now, knock on wood, he's not as inclined to ear infections as his brother was, so a cold comes and goes. Ear infections suck.
  • My wife working, and working weird shifts like nights for the last 6 months or so, has also contributed to Matty being quite the daddy's son, while Andrew was more of a momma's boy. This is something I didn't live with Andrew. A bump, a bruise, he'd run to mamma. With Matty, it's the exact opposite. While it can be fun at times, almost rewarding, I sometimes find it almost taxing, especially in the morning when it's me and the boys, bugging one to get ready to go to school, the other dressed and ready to go to daycare gives me a whole new perspective on how single parents can deal with kids on a daily basis. Hats off to you my friends!
  • Some may remember me posting about him going through a fairly long period of diarrhea last Winter. Well, he got over it, but we now have to watch him so he doesn't get constipated. We have to watch his diet to make sure he has a bowel movement about every two days at the worst because if he doesn't, he gets all fussy on the third day (who wouldn't?) and looks uncomfortable. This means not too much bananas on some days.
  • Speaking of eating, Matty is the big eater of the two. Man can he eat. And he eats of everything. I've not found much that he doesn't like, quite the opposite of his brother who is quite the picky eater.
All in all, we got two amazing kids and even though I whine sometimes, I wouldn't change anything about my life as a dad.


FM

KevinNU7 10-12-2005 12:53 PM

So Steve when are you going to grace us with Excel spreadsheet about your kids :)

KevinNU7 10-12-2005 01:00 PM

Dola,

I'm expecting my first in mid January so I will be here posting soon

FrogMan 10-12-2005 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinNU7
So Steve when are you going to grace us with Excel spreadsheet about your kids :)


hehehe :D

I think my kids are probably the only part of my life that is not, in some way, represented in an Excel spreadsheet ;) :p

FM

FrogMan 10-12-2005 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinNU7
Dola,

I'm expecting my first in mid January so I will be here posting soon


Matthew was born on January 15, will be two when yours show up :)

Welcome to our world :)

FM

Eaglesfan27 10-12-2005 01:13 PM

I don't have a kid (yet - probably 2-3 years away) but I think this is a great idea. I'll be following along, if that is allowed ;)

FrogMan 10-12-2005 01:16 PM

Hey, you're the doc, I don't know about otherts, but I was hoping you'd be following along ;)

FM

KevinNU7 10-12-2005 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogMan
hehehe :D

I think my kids are probably the only part of my life that is not, in some way, represented in an Excel spreadsheet ;) :p

FM

If you track your checking acocunts in Excel like I do then I'd imagine your kids are in Excel atleast financially :)

MacroGuru 10-12-2005 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogMan
Hey, you're the doc, I don't know about otherts, but I was hoping you'd be following along ;)

FM


I second the emotion...

JeeberD 10-12-2005 01:52 PM

Great thread, parents. I'll be reading along, hoping to pick up some pointers for when the time comes a few years down the road...

Qwikshot 10-12-2005 01:56 PM

This is awesome, this is what I need today...

Okay, I'm a daddy. I have a beautiful daughter, she's 4 years, less than four months from turning 5.

Her name is Zia.

But it's all confusing.

Why so? Well, because I'm not the birth father. I'm really just now, an ex-boyfriend, who at the time was the only father figure.

But we never told my daughter, and I'm not sure when the truth will be illuminated.

Never adopted by me, I retain no legal rights, but I can arrange doctor appontments (whenever my ex decides to get insurance) and I get her every other weekend.

Now for the longest time I was raising her, so now I'm in withdrawl because it's long before I get to spend time, and it's limited in that it's just about 3 nights, and 2 days (I pick her up Friday evenings).

So today, my ex calls (She is married now) and tells me wonderful news, she's got a new job, decent pay and insurance.

So I'm happy that my smart wonderful daughter will now visit the doctor and the dentist, but frustrated because my ex seems to have everything go her way...and when it doesn't; it doesn't really affect her as much as it does my daughter.

I try to provide stability, but I feel like I'm losing ground. I try to be a better man and be happy for my ex, but I feel envious. I was the good guy, and I'm struggling, not to accept...but amazed at how well everything turns out while I have to settle for less, for me and my daughter.

I'm going to Australia in two weeks, I'm contemplating not returning, in fact, if it weren't for my daughter, I wouldn't, I'd rather start anew.

She's the only reason I'd come back; She's the only reason I stick around.

I get a call everyday, "When are you coming to pick me up?" or "I really miss you", generally both. I know sometimes it's embellishment because Zia is the center of my attention when she's over, she really is my world.

It's been two years since her mom and I split. I was there for ultrasounds, I was there for the birth, the first time she rolled over, the first words, crawling, standing, walking, love yous...sometimes I feel that I won't be seeing more, I got her first bike, her first bed, I make her brush her teeth, she learned my street address first, she knows my phone number (and can dial it), she knows what 911 is and what to do in most emergencies. She's brash and tough, she amazes my friends with her manners. She's has my personality, she learned to pout from me, and I read her stories and she's learned how to say "secured" and "explanation" and what they means; she sings to the Talking Heads, Janis Joplin, Sonny and Cher (don't ask), Booker T and the MGs, Sam and Dave...

She's my best memory of everything.

Everyday is hard, but like Homer, I do it for her.

FrogMan 10-12-2005 02:02 PM

Forgot to mention the latest thing that happened with Andrew: a lie, not a tiny one, a pretty good one, at least to my eyes.

Let's put it in perspective. In his class, there's this thing where every kid has a spider with his/her number on it. Every Monday, every kid's spider starts the week in the grass, you want your spider to keep playing in the grass. A kid's spider goes up one step if in the day the kid has been warned more than once on any of 5 simple class rules. The one rule with which Andrew has the most problem, and you might be able to guess it if you read my long post, is speaking without being allowd to (i.e. not having raised his hand to ask for permission to speak). If your spider doesn't move up at all, you get some reward (that the kid has previously picked out of possible rewards, Andrew has picked a 10 minute period on their class computer as a reward I think). If your spider moves up one rank, you don't automatically get your reward but your name is put in a drawing to maybe get picked for a reward. Up two and three ranks you're in the grey zone, nothing really happens. Four ranks, the kid has to write his challenge in his notebook and get it signed by his parents and 5 ranks, the teacher writes something to the parents, mostly so the kids sees it's important to behave.

Three weeks ago, Andrew had a rough week relatively speaking, getting 2 or more warnings on all but one day, so his spider went up to the 4th rank, not good. He wrote his little message and we had a good talk. The following week, so the week before last week, he went all but one day with less than two warnings, so all in all a very good week. No need to tell you we praised him and told him not to give in to the temptation of talking without raising his hand. He seemed in high spirit and when he kept telling me all last week that it was going great and he was getting warned only once a day, I saw nothing wrong with it. I'm sure you see where I'm going with this. Turns out is week last week was not that good. he was warned two or three times even in some days for 4 out of the 5 days. When he was telling us that everything was fine. Now, remember that a kid with 4 bad days in a week has to write a note to his parents. When Friday morning came, he got absolutely desperate and admitted to his teacher that he'd been lying to us. I think she handled it very well, as she had him write a fairly long letter, at least for a 3rd grader, in which he explained that he was sorry he'd lied to us, that he didn't want to disappoint us by telling us it wasn't going well. He was in tears when he presented me the letter after I'd picked him up from school. I'm usually fairly prompt to reprimand him, but I just couldn't go hard on him. I simply told him that he had to see this as a lesson, that everything you say and do can, and often will be held against you at some point in the future. Same, as I reminded him, that if I asked his karate teacher if it had gone well and he lied to me, I'd have a chance to talk to his teacher at one point someday. I also asked him if he thought he'd get away with it, knowing he had to write something if it didn't go right in the week. He acknowledged that he had not thought about that.

I then told him that trust is something you build over time, but that you can destroy quite rapidly. I also told him that he had to see this as a lesson. I'm like that in life, and with my kids. It's not always a big deal if you screw up, as long as you learn from it and don't do it again. Nothing irks me more than a person (say a coworker) who keeps making the same mistake (or a similar mistake) over and over.

Thing is, a bit like sachmo and the weight of being the worst parents in the world, I felt a bit guilty for what he'd done. Had we put too much pressure on him? Had we put too much emphasis on the good, so much so that it made the lie look like nothing much? Sigh, kids can bring so much to ya, but they also force you to be a better person...

The lie in itself isn't that big deal, it's the realization that he can lie to us, knowingly, and with it, the fact that we could lose control over him like that. He's only 8, yet he's already 8. We know what he's doing most of the time, but someday he'll be with kids we don't know about, even though we'll try to know what he does in his time, but it doesn't take much to lose him, or any kid. That's my fear, not a big fear, but one I've got in the back of my mind...

Thanks for reading.


FM

MacroGuru 10-12-2005 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwikshot
This is awesome, this is what I need today...

Okay, I'm a daddy. I have a beautiful daughter, she's 4 years, less than four months from turning 5.

Her name is Zia.

But it's all confusing.

Why so? Well, because I'm not the birth father. I'm really just now, an ex-boyfriend, who at the time was the only father figure.

But we never told my daughter, and I'm not sure when the truth will be illuminated.

Never adopted by me, I retain no legal rights, but I can arrange doctor appontments (whenever my ex decides to get insurance) and I get her every other weekend.

Now for the longest time I was raising her, so now I'm in withdrawl because it's long before I get to spend time, and it's limited in that it's just about 3 nights, and 2 days (I pick her up Friday evenings).

So today, my ex calls (She is married now) and tells me wonderful news, she's got a new job, decent pay and insurance.

So I'm happy that my smart wonderful daughter will now visit the doctor and the dentist, but frustrated because my ex seems to have everything go her way...and when it doesn't; it doesn't really affect her as much as it does my daughter.

I try to provide stability, but I feel like I'm losing ground. I try to be a better man and be happy for my ex, but I feel envious. I was the good guy, and I'm struggling, not to accept...but amazed at how well everything turns out while I have to settle for less, for me and my daughter.

I'm going to Australia in two weeks, I'm contemplating not returning, in fact, if it weren't for my daughter, I wouldn't, I'd rather start anew.

She's the only reason I'd come back; She's the only reason I stick around.

I get a call everyday, "When are you coming to pick me up?" or "I really miss you", generally both. I know sometimes it's embellishment because Zia is the center of my attention when she's over, she really is my world.

It's been two years since her mom and I split. I was there for ultrasounds, I was there for the birth, the first time she rolled over, the first words, crawling, standing, walking, love yous...sometimes I feel that I won't be seeing more, I got her first bike, her first bed, I make her brush her teeth, she learned my street address first, she knows my phone number (and can dial it), she knows what 911 is and what to do in most emergencies. She's brash and tough, she amazes my friends with her manners. She's has my personality, she learned to pout from me, and I read her stories and she's learned how to say "secured" and "explanation" and what they means; she sings to the Talking Heads, Janis Joplin, Sonny and Cher (don't ask), Booker T and the MGs, Sam and Dave...

She's my best memory of everything.

Everyday is hard, but like Homer, I do it for her.


Alright, damn near made me cry here..I feel for you, and I feel for the decision you are now thrusting upon yourself with Australia.

Please, let us know, keep us up to date on anything and everything, and hey, if you just need to vent and/or chat...PM, I am willing to be that person that listens....

WSUCougar 10-12-2005 02:09 PM

Wow, Qwik...what a wonderful yet terrible situation to be in. You sound like such a devoted parent. Seriously, man.

Yet I'm not sure where things could lead with that, at least from a legal standpoint. It sounds like you are on decent terms with your ex, but how is she as a parent? Is she as devoted to Zia as you are? What does she say/think about you and Zia? Ever discuss things in a future sense?

I'm not sure what else to say, except to say keep posting about your feelings.

WSUCougar 10-12-2005 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogMan
The lie in itself isn't that big deal, it's the realization that he can lie to us, knowingly, and with it, the fact that we could lose control over him like that. He's only 8, yet he's already 8. We know what he's doing most of the time, but someday he'll be with kids we don't know about, even though we'll try to know what he does in his time, but it doesn't take much to lose him, or any kid. That's my fear, not a big fear, but one I've got in the back of my mind...

I can totally relate. My son is only pushing four, but I have that same fear lurking in my mind. The little voice that says, "If he does X behavior now, and you don't nip it in the bud, just think what it might develop into...YOU MUST BE A BAD PARENT!"

One of Drew's issues that we are currently facing is his tendency to use the word "Sorry" as a get out of jail free card. Almost any poor behavior, bad word, accident, or whatever, if he gets called on it, he just says his stock "sorrrrrrrry" and acts as if that clears the issue. We've taught him to apologize if he does something inappropriate, but DAMN. And if we continue on, he'll sometimes say, "But I said sorry!" and act wounded like we've crossed some sort of hideous boundary. Alert the media, we're mentally abusing our child! :mad:

sachmo71 10-12-2005 02:26 PM

Frogman - out therapist told us that children don't really learn right from wrong as a concept until they are around 11 or 12, if that helps.

Qwikshot - I really feel for you, man. Hopefully you can keep things on a good footing with your ex, because as you say, all decisions affect your daughter first.

FrogMan 10-12-2005 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachmo71
Frogman - out therapist told us that children don't really learn right from wrong as a concept until they are around 11 or 12, if that helps.


you know, I read what you wrote and thought to myself "nah, that's too old, he had to know it wasn't right", then I stopped and thought about the scene on Friday when Andrew told me he'd lied to me, about what he had written in his letter. I do believe he simply didn't want to disappoint us, that he knew it would make us happy to hear him tell us he was doing well, and it was/still is making us happy to hear him do well.

Maybe you're right sachmo, thanks for putting it in perspective... Live and let live I guess...

Qwikshot, I've known about your situation for a little while now, as you've brushed the subject a couple of times in the HT forum I think, but man, I feel for you. Not much I can tell you but that I hope everything turns out for the best. I know that if one day I get split from my sons, it'll rip my heart out. I'm crying as I type this, to let you know how much I feel for your situation... Best of luck dude, hang in there...

FM

Radii 10-12-2005 02:41 PM

Man, Oliegirl and I are pretty lucky. We both realize it, but 99% of the time we have a damn good kid. Healthy, smart, and generally well behaved. I honestly have not ever had the fear/worry/guilt that I am a bad parent, but I'm coming from a drastically different situation, since I didn't come into Anthony's life until he was already 5. I wonder how that will be different when we have another that is biologically mine and that I help raise from day 1.

Frogman, on the lying thing, it could be worse. I remember having a natural instinct to try to get out of trouble by any means necessary, and my son does too. Pretty sure my wife does as well for that matter, even if it means telling a fairly obvious bold faced lie.

Last year, and keep in mind this was in the *1st grade* we had a little incident with Anthony taking an attempt to avoid trouble quite a long ways. He had some bad behavior mentioned on a weekly report from his teacher, probably for talking in class too much, after having had a rough few days and being scolded and reminded to be on his best behavior, etc. So he is supposed to get this report signed by his parents. We never see it, until a week goes by and Oliegirl is in his classroom and goes in his desk to get something and finds it.

Apparently, he told his teacher he gave it to us and we hadn't signed it yet. He told us that his teacher didn't hand out the report to get signed(she didn't always have weekly reports for us so this was believable). He signed his mother's name on and put it in his desk. When I say "signed his mother's name" I mean that he wrote her first name in big giant 1st grade print, in pencil. Her first name was misspelled. No last name. We asked him what he thought would happen when his teacher asked for it, and he said that he thought she would just take the note, see his mom's name on it, and everything would be fine.



We continue to catch him on occasion telling incredibly stupid lies because he's afraid he's done something to get into trouble. Often its over simple stuff that we wouldn't even care about but that he thinks he'll get in trouble for. We have to continually impress upon him that the consequences of lying are *always* worse than coming clean in the first place, no matter what you've done wrong.

MacroGuru 10-12-2005 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar
One of Drew's issues that we are currently facing is his tendency to use the word "Sorry" as a get out of jail free card. Almost any poor behavior, bad word, accident, or whatever, if he gets called on it, he just says his stock "sorrrrrrrry" and acts as if that clears the issue. We've taught him to apologize if he does something inappropriate, but DAMN. And if we continue on, he'll sometimes say, "But I said sorry!" and act wounded like we've crossed some sort of hideous boundary. Alert the media, we're mentally abusing our child! :mad:


Avery, my 5 year old, uses the "It was an accident" excuse now that we told him that sorry doesn't hack it, when you do something that you have meant to do, and it gets you in trouble.

FrogMan 10-12-2005 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar
One of Drew's issues that we are currently facing is his tendency to use the word "Sorry" as a get out of jail free card. Almost any poor behavior, bad word, accident, or whatever, if he gets called on it, he just says his stock "sorrrrrrrry" and acts as if that clears the issue. We've taught him to apologize if he does something inappropriate, but DAMN. And if we continue on, he'll sometimes say, "But I said sorry!" and act wounded like we've crossed some sort of hideous boundary. Alert the media, we're mentally abusing our child! :mad:


The word "sorry" is also one he uses very often. For simple things like letting out one big burp at the table. I mean, it's one thing to let a big one go at home, with only the four of us around the table, but saying you are sorry when you rip a big one in the middle of a karate class will still put you in trouble with the teacher. (it has happened in the past, from now on, no hot-dogs before karate ;))

But then there are more important things, like throwing a toy in the air and having it fall very close to his small brother's head. You look at him, ask him what went through his mind when he thought it'd be a good idea to throw said toy (say as big as a truck) and he'll go "I'm sorry"... sigh...

FM

FrogMan 10-12-2005 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii
Frogman, on the lying thing, it could be worse. I remember having a natural instinct to try to get out of trouble by any means necessary, and my son does too. Pretty sure my wife does as well for that matter, even if it means telling a fairly obvious bold faced lie.


I agree, it could be quite worse and Andrew isn't really the worst of it kids, I guess it caught us off guard. Seeing myself as possibly the worst parent in the world is probably also part of my own personality, as I'm very critical of myself, in everything I do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii
We continue to catch him on occasion telling incredibly stupid lies because he's afraid he's done something to get into trouble. Often its over simple stuff that we wouldn't even care about but that he thinks he'll get in trouble for. We have to continually impress upon him that the consequences of lying are *always* worse than coming clean in the first place, no matter what you've done wrong.


That's the thing, this one was the first big one we caught him into. What I bolded is exactly the way we are going about it from now on...

FM

ibnsgirl 10-12-2005 06:14 PM

I hate this computer. I’ve spent nearly an hour restarting this thing every time it freezes.

Anyway, wow…. I’ve got a couple of comments to make and a way-too-long vent session, so bear with me.

Quikshot: I cannot imagine what you are going through. If something were to happen that I had to be away from my daughter, I don’t know what I’d do. To say the least, I would be lost. You sound like you are trying to do what is right by your daughter. Hang in there. (sorry, tears welling up.)

Pilotman: For what it is worth, I was homeschooled, so if there is any way I can help, let me know. Also, I understand some about the flight industry (my dad was a test pilot). It isn’t always the easiest community in which to work.

In my first post, I just wanted to introduce myself. After reading what some of y’all have written, my issues seem like nothing. They still worry me, though:

I guess the number one thing that has been on my mind is the grandparents. Lucy has three grandparents: Tony’s parents and my mom. This is the first grandchild and great-grandchild on both sides. We live about 2.5 hours from where they do, which is either too close or too far. It’s too close in that we are expected to drive up to see them. It is too far in that to go means spending at least one night.

There was always a lot of stress when I was growing up, but all that changed a couple of years ago when my dad was killed, and Tony and I got married. As the two events were not that far apart, my mom’s home life really changed (I was an only child, so she’s on her own for the first time in 30 years). As a result, she went from being controlling to not wanting to interfere with the way we are raising Lucy at all. It seems like she is walking on eggshells all of the time. As she sees it, we have our family, we need our privacy, etc. Which is not necessarily bad, but…

Tony’s parents *really* wanted grandchildren. I can’t stress this enough. So much so that it seems as if they see Lucy as theirs and not ours. That may seem awfully harsh, but it is the way it comes across to me. I admit that I am a sensitive person, but man, having a baby obviously really changed me. I went from mostly easy-going to uber-protective. It is these little comments that get me. First, I was not feeding Lucy enough (our pediatrician was thrilled with her progress). Then, Lucy was being held by Tony and I too much (as opposed to other people [them]). We weren’t bringing her up to see them enough. Lucy is never going to learn their language. (Tony’s background and mine are pretty different. His mom is from a different country, and at home, his family often speaks that language. I am really not good at speaking it, so I don’t. We have always known that Tony would teach her.) You get the drift. Meanwhile, my mom doesn’t even want to hold Lucy if that is going to bother us or Lucy (as she is easily overstimulated and pretty high-strung, and even someone else holding her can be too much for her to handle).

All of this seems like such little stuff, but when this happens every time we are up there - ugh. Last time, she was having a very difficult time sleeping, so she would start crying when she got tired. Lucy was then labeled “touchy” and given to her grandma to be settled down. I guess I’m just around to feed her and change her. I’m just her mom and I obviously don't know what I'm doing or she'd be quiet. I end up a nervous wreck when we go to their house and looking for the earliest opportunity to ease out of the room. These are Tony’s parents, for goodness sake!

Tony knows all of this, and we’ve spoken on it and are in agreement that we know what is best for Lucy and we will do the best we can. As I said, it might just be that I have gone way too sensitive as I am having such a hard time letting things slide.

Is the grandparent thing ever going to get easier? Does it help when the “new” wears off or with subsequent kids? Do I just move to a different state? I know I can’t be alone here.

This got way too long, but I feel somewhat better getting this out. Thanks guys!

MacroGuru 10-12-2005 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibnsgirl
I hate this computer. I’ve spent nearly an hour restarting this thing every time it freezes.

Anyway, wow…. I’ve got a couple of comments to make and a way-too-long vent session, so bear with me.

Quikshot: I cannot imagine what you are going through. If something were to happen that I had to be away from my daughter, I don’t know what I’d do. To say the least, I would be lost. You sound like you are trying to do what is right by your daughter. Hang in there. (sorry, tears welling up.)

Pilotman: For what it is worth, I was homeschooled, so if there is any way I can help, let me know. Also, I understand some about the flight industry (my dad was a test pilot). It isn’t always the easiest community in which to work.

In my first post, I just wanted to introduce myself. After reading what some of y’all have written, my issues seem like nothing. They still worry me, though:

I guess the number one thing that has been on my mind is the grandparents. Lucy has three grandparents: Tony’s parents and my mom. This is the first grandchild and great-grandchild on both sides. We live about 2.5 hours from where they do, which is either too close or too far. It’s too close in that we are expected to drive up to see them. It is too far in that to go means spending at least one night.

There was always a lot of stress when I was growing up, but all that changed a couple of years ago when my dad was killed, and Tony and I got married. As the two events were not that far apart, my mom’s home life really changed (I was an only child, so she’s on her own for the first time in 30 years). As a result, she went from being controlling to not wanting to interfere with the way we are raising Lucy at all. It seems like she is walking on eggshells all of the time. As she sees it, we have our family, we need our privacy, etc. Which is not necessarily bad, but…

Tony’s parents *really* wanted grandchildren. I can’t stress this enough. So much so that it seems as if they see Lucy as theirs and not ours. That may seem awfully harsh, but it is the way it comes across to me. I admit that I am a sensitive person, but man, having a baby obviously really changed me. I went from mostly easy-going to uber-protective. It is these little comments that get me. First, I was not feeding Lucy enough (our pediatrician was thrilled with her progress). Then, Lucy was being held by Tony and I too much (as opposed to other people [them]). We weren’t bringing her up to see them enough. Lucy is never going to learn their language. (Tony’s background and mine are pretty different. His mom is from a different country, and at home, his family often speaks that language. I am really not good at speaking it, so I don’t. We have always known that Tony would teach her.) You get the drift. Meanwhile, my mom doesn’t even want to hold Lucy if that is going to bother us or Lucy (as she is easily overstimulated and pretty high-strung, and even someone else holding her can be too much for her to handle).

All of this seems like such little stuff, but when this happens every time we are up there - ugh. Last time, she was having a very difficult time sleeping, so she would start crying when she got tired. Lucy was then labeled “touchy” and given to her grandma to be settled down. I guess I’m just around to feed her and change her. I’m just her mom and I obviously don't know what I'm doing or she'd be quiet. I end up a nervous wreck when we go to their house and looking for the earliest opportunity to ease out of the room. These are Tony’s parents, for goodness sake!

Tony knows all of this, and we’ve spoken on it and are in agreement that we know what is best for Lucy and we will do the best we can. As I said, it might just be that I have gone way too sensitive as I am having such a hard time letting things slide.

Is the grandparent thing ever going to get easier? Does it help when the “new” wears off or with subsequent kids? Do I just move to a different state? I know I can’t be alone here.

This got way too long, but I feel somewhat better getting this out. Thanks guys!



I like quoting the entire thing and then responding in small responses....:D

Honestly,

This is the way it was and has been with my wifes family. They feel they should be able to tell us how to raise the kids, and they stepped back when I told them, these are our children, Dennis and Emilie's not yours, you can voice your opinion once, we will note it, and then we will move on. Thats the best advice I can give you, and it is hard, especially when emotions are involved. Our baby boy (Born a month and a half after yours) has been a blessing, both families have left us to deal with it as seen fit and not tossed their hands into it.

Our problem person in the family now has moved beyond the Grandparents to the Aunt...My wifes sister lives an alternate lifestyle but wants kids, she has basically assumed that my daughter (First grandchild born on both sides) is hers, and she treats her like hers. We just recently found out that she has introduced our daughter as hers to people when they have been out together. This caused me to hit the roof, pick up the phone, and prepare a major chewing session, my wife calmed me down and told me no. She handled it on her own. I do not know what was said, but I received an apology from the sister.

sachmo71 10-12-2005 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indoorsoccersim
This caused me to hit the roof, pick up the phone, and prepare a major chewing session, my wife calmed me down and told me no. She handled it on her own. I do not know what was said, but I received an apology from the sister.



I've learned that one as well. Bite thy tongue and let cooler heads prevail. It usually get's better results.

ibnsgirl, I've been through a lot of the stuff you are going through with my MIL. They live about an hour and a half south, and so it's the "not a big deal but a hassle" to go see them for the day. The MIL is very much into spoiling the kids, and I now let that pretty much go, because a number of other things have happened and I'm still trying to figure out how to have a normal relationship with them. But the one thing that has helped me with her is honest talk. She seems to read me and my concerns, and goes out of her way to accomidate me. That doesn't work with everyone, though, so take that with a grain of salt. I hope things relax a bit as your daughter get's older, which obviously they will, but to what extent you can't be sure.

Eaglesfan27 10-13-2005 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachmo71
Frogman - out therapist told us that children don't really learn right from wrong as a concept until they are around 11 or 12, if that helps.



That is sort of correct, but not completely so. Kids don't learn abstract thinking until 11 or 12 and that is when one's moral system is really developing. However, they can tell right from wrong by about age 8 (give or take a year depending on the child.) Kids that are 8 should be able to start understanding rules, and actually tend to "over-follow" rules sometimes.

That being said, what happened with your child isn't that uncommon Frogman and it doesn't make you a bad parent. However, I would encourage you to continue to work on teaching your kid to follow the rules and to help him distinguish right from wrong. From what you told me, I think you handled the situation very well.

Galaxy 10-13-2005 03:04 AM

Great thread...A young college buck myself, I am still on the highway drivin' 55 before exiting for children (but someday). It's amazing to see all the growth and development of children to where we are today. Looks like you should never underestimate your children's mind from these posts.

TonyR 10-13-2005 04:40 AM

I've been reading and keeping up so thought I should finally post.
I'm Tony, and I'm married to ibnsgirl. We've been married 14 months, and we have a 3 month old (Lucy).

To Qwikshot - my heart and prayers go out to you. I've only had my little one for 3 months, and I know I can't be without her.

As for me, the thing with my parents is mostly my mom. She grew up in a large family, and (imo) regrets not having a big family of her own.
She'd been trying to marry off since I turned 17. Needless to say how much she wanted a grandchild.
She's thinking that I am going to neglect my heritage/background as far as teaching it to Lucy as she grows.
I've already told her once that Lucy was my wife's and mine not hers. It's like she doesn't get it sometimes...oh well, I'll fix it soon enough.

Lee's done the noble thing of being a stay-at-home mom. I could never really tell or show her how much I appreciate that.

The big issues on my mind involve my work. For those that do not know, I'm a Border Patrol Agent stationed in Laredo, Texas.
Laredo is (imo) one of the worst place to raise a family. The city ranks dead last (of the "major" cities) in literacy and education, customer service is non-existant, and there is no "safe" neighborhood anywhere in town.

We get no respect in this town what-so-ever. The laws we enforce are a joke to everybody. We send people to court for smuggling people or drugs, and the worst most people get is probation. The community knows it, and it is very frustraing for me because it makes me feel that doing my job is worthless. I've taken countless criminals off the streets (child molesters, murderers, sex offenders, narcotics trafficers, etc) but most usually end up getting sent back to their country of origion to try and re-enter another day.

I like my job, but I work 50+ hours a week. Lately I've been pulling 11-12 hour days. That in itself is not bad, but I rotate shifts every 4 weeks. That's 4 weeks of days, 4 weeks of evenings, then 4 weeks of mids and start cycle again. To top things off, I never have set days off that are consistant. This week it's two days, next week 2 different days, next week, 2 more different days, etc. I'm afraid that spending all this time at work is making me miss all the things that Lucy is going through. All the little milestones.

I've been trying anything and everything to get out of this place to another federal job. I've spent 4 very hard years with BP. It's a very good job and it's treated me well enough so far, but ever since I found out I was going to be a dad I've been trying to put my family first and get us out of here (No luck so far).

I've been encouraged by several current supervisors that I should put in for supervisor and that I would do a good job at it. I would love the opportunity of promotion, but I would've liked it to be somewhere nicer where I can raise my family. It just seems that more likely you have to be a supervisor to be considered for any type of transfer. Not to mention being a supervisor adds at least another hour and a half to your workday.

Moral at my station is in the pits. It's been said that out of 400 or so agents that work there, over 330 have put in for other jobs. Yet nothing has been done to try and improve moral. The service itself is more focused on recruiting over retention and veiws us all as replaceable.

I'm just trying to be a good provider as well as trying to make sure I raise my family in a healthy environment and I know it will not happen where I am at now.

In anycase, thanks for the thread and for listening.

KevinNU7 10-13-2005 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibnsgirl
Anyway, wow…. I’ve got a couple of comments to make and a way-too-long vent session, so bear with me.

Wow! Everything you wrote was exactly how I fear my/our families will be. My wife's parents are divorced and we only really see her mom on a regular basis. Meanwhile my parents live 90 minutes away and are both Portuguese and want to make sure my son speaks Portuguese (even though I don't speak it well). I fear that they will be very much on top of us and it will really piss off my wife.

FrogMan 10-13-2005 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27
That is sort of correct, but not completely so. Kids don't learn abstract thinking until 11 or 12 and that is when one's moral system is really developing. However, they can tell right from wrong by about age 8 (give or take a year depending on the child.) Kids that are 8 should be able to start understanding rules, and actually tend to "over-follow" rules sometimes.

That being said, what happened with your child isn't that uncommon Frogman and it doesn't make you a bad parent. However, I would encourage you to continue to work on teaching your kid to follow the rules and to help him distinguish right from wrong. From what you told me, I think you handled the situation very well.


Thanks doc, good insight. I'm not so sure about him "over-following" rules though :) Not that he'd regularly try to find ways around said rules, but he can have a very a very short memory as to what rules exist at times :)

Teaching Andrew to follow these rules and remind him of said rules is indeed what we try to do whenever something like that happens.

Thanks again.

FM

Godzilla Blitz 10-13-2005 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27
That is sort of correct, but not completely so. Kids don't learn abstract thinking until 11 or 12 and that is when one's moral system is really developing. However, they can tell right from wrong by about age 8 (give or take a year depending on the child.) Kids that are 8 should be able to start understanding rules, and actually tend to "over-follow" rules sometimes.


The belief that children start to distinguish right from wrong about the age of seven or eight is based on the work of Piaget and Kohlberg, which is what most of us have been taught in college and high school.

It is critical to note that there is a lot of good, current research that calls into question many of the conclusions drawn by these researchers. Newer research indicates that children often much younger--even as young as three--can distinguish to a surprisingly degree of complexity the difference between right and wrong actions.

A lot of this arises from the realization that often children at very young ages can view an incident from another person's perspective. In short--much earlier than Piaget believed possible--many children are able to empathize.

PilotMan 10-13-2005 06:14 PM

My wife and I always try and keep a runnning track of things that we have had to tell our kids, that are things that you should not ever have to tell your kids. Some of these are pretty funny.

- Don't bite the dog.
- Don't lick the dog.
- Don't stick chopsticks in your (eye, ear, nose).
- Your choo-choo's should never be hauling poop.
- Don't stand on your brothers head.
- Don't bite your brother.
- Don't throw dog poop at your brother.
- Don't stand on the dog.
- Don't touch the dog's butt.
- Don't let the dog kiss you after she licks her butt.
- Don't eat dirt.
- Don't put dirt/sand in your brothers hair.
- For the second day in a row, do not put a bean up your nose.
- Don't eat the dog's food.
- Don't drink out of the dog's bowl.

There are more than this, I will need to post them as I remember them.

Eaglesfan27 10-14-2005 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godzilla Blitz
The belief that children start to distinguish right from wrong about the age of seven or eight is based on the work of Piaget and Kohlberg, which is what most of us have been taught in college and high school.

It is critical to note that there is a lot of good, current research that calls into question many of the conclusions drawn by these researchers. Newer research indicates that children often much younger--even as young as three--can distinguish to a surprisingly degree of complexity the difference between right and wrong actions.

A lot of this arises from the realization that often children at very young ages can view an incident from another person's perspective. In short--much earlier than Piaget believed possible--many children are able to empathize.


Spot on. I'm a fan of Jean Piaget (and to a lesser extent Kohlberg), but I also like and in my own mind agree with the newer research that is being done. However, when I'm teaching I'll usually teach the older stuff such as Piaget because it is usually the right answer on board examinations and such. In reality, I think there is also a great deal of variability between children.

Qwikshot 10-14-2005 08:03 AM

When Zia does wrong, she doesn't outright lie when she's with me, she will try to justify it. But when say I am watching a show while Zia is playing with my brother, and she comes back into the room, if is something we can both watch, I will allow it, but if it isn't, I will switch it off, and Zia understands that it isn't "appropriate". She understands that word, because I have used it for Family Guy, South Park, and other shows.

Of course, my ex lets her watch "Buffy".

Still I was watching bits of "Cold Case" and Zia wanted to watch, and it was rather dark, (a woman is trapped in a burning house with grills on the windows). Zia wanted to see it, so I decided to use it to my advantage in explaining the dangers of fire, and what you need to do in case of a fire. We had had a real life experience with fire when she was younger (she remembers amazingly) when my ex had a grease fire occur, and we had to use an extinguisher to put it out.

What I do try to instill is fairness. Zia will lie over the phone, but it is hard to guage if she understands so. Sometimes I think she just wants attention which I may lavish on her, being a single guy, when I have Zia, it's just me and her (sometimes my parents and brother)...when Zia is with Craig and Zoe, Zia is not the center of attention...so I get messages (she calls everyday) that she hasn't eaten, or that her friends hit her, or that they refuse to give her milk, or that she hasn't done anything all day.

So either Zia knows how to manipulate, or there are half-truths floating around. I think mainly it's because of attention...I have noticed that she does get jealous if she's not the center of attention, and she has a one track mind when it comes to getting attention, if she sees me I trump my parents, my brother, etc...she used to barely acknowledge them...more and more though I have told her, shown her, that you can share and allow everyone acknowledgement and attention...

I don't know where I'm going with this, I ramble.

I think children don't lie so much as they make their own perception, they may understand that it is wrong, but feel that there is justification (I get the cookie, I get the attention). I don't punish when I catch Zia in a lie as much as I make her accept the truth.

WSUCougar 10-14-2005 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwikshot
I don't know where I'm going with this, I ramble.

No worries...that's the point of the thread. :cool:

Soccer tomorrow morning is going to be interesting. My wife has some other stuff to do and won't be attending. Drew tends to be more willing to do "new" stuff if mom isn't right there to cling to. Keep your fingers crossed for me.

FrogMan 10-14-2005 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar
No worries...that's the point of the thread. :cool:


Was gonna post something eerily similar to that :cool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Soccer tomorrow morning is going to be interesting. My wife has some other stuff to do and won't be attending. Drew tends to be more willing to do "new" stuff if mom isn't right there to cling to. Keep your fingers crossed for me.


That is a good situationg there. When Andrew started doing karate when he was 4, no parents were allowed to watch the class, except once a month. You know what, most teachers have told me that these once a month invite to parents were the toughest on the kids as they are more often than not too focused on their parents and they tend to forget about doing whatever karate they knew.

Good luck with it though...

PilotMan 10-14-2005 11:10 AM

One of the biggest problems that I face is where to draw the line between being a parent with a lot of influence in my children's lives and where to be the bread winner and be responsible for our quality of life. My job is unique in that I am not home every day. In fact, I can be gone for days at a time and home again for days at a time. Sometimes, the transition between daddy being home and gone is difficult. My family gets into routines that I screw up by being home, and that is a source for friction.

We live in very fragile financial state. The investment to do what I do was very costly. Not only in terms of lost wages by being a student for 13mo, but also making next to nothing for 2 yrs. Look at it this way, my wife worked a part time job while I worked 2 jobs. In the end, she still made more money than I did. The cost of my training, coupled with the CC debt and money borrowed from family members has put us in a large hole. Think 6 figures plus. About 80% of the debt is off the books, as it is money that I owe my parents, and money that is not in my name. But it is still money owed. Of course, at the time the aviation industry was in a good state, and the expected return on investment was very good compared to comparable industries. Not so much now.

Kids go through this very important development stage up to the age of 3, where they are developing the personality, and mindset that will set the stage for how they develop the rest of thier lives. Cole's three and under years were hard, and it is plain to see the impact that it had on him, and how it affects him today. Basically, his Mom worked up to 3 jobs at a time, and he stayed home with his deadbeat grandma. This was like being on his own essentially, as she didn't pay a whole lot of attention to him.

Anyway, back to the point, my wife and I share the opinion that our family is more important than being financially secure. I need to be home as much as my job will allow, so that I can be the leader, father, and have the impact on my kids lives that I missed out upon as my parents divorced when I was two. Yet, I am the bread winner, it is my problem if we can't pay the bills. It is my problem if our house/duplex is too small for our family. It is my problem if there isn't enough money send our kids to any extra activities, like soccer, instrument lessons, karate, etc.

I feel totally handcuffed. I have held the road that my family is #1, and I try and stay home as much as I can, but I feel horrible when we can't afford to do things, and we struggle on our tight budget every month.

Now, with the company in bankruptcy, there are going to be layoffs (furlough's) as well as a pay cut. I don't make a whole lot, my base is around 36k, but I should make around 50k this year. The pay cut is going to be in the neighborhood of 10-13%. That is going to be significant to us. I still have to feed 5 people. I still have to pay the bills, and and the credit cards that got us through training.

So now there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Our lives are stuck here in limbo, when we though we would be getting free of some of it, we are mired in a bog that won't let us go. We are so tired of just getting by. Tired, of going paycheck to paychek. Tired of never seeing or feeling like we are making any progress. And I am tired of feeling like a failure and that I have let my family down, or lead them down the wrong path. A failure that I have family members holding promissory notes and not able to pay them any money. I am squeezed by the fact that I have to be committed to this career, that I cannot work for a smaller airline, as I couldn't handle the paycut. The other option is to leave the career alltoghether and go back to restaurant management, or something else where I could start off making the same amount of money right away. Right now, I can't see doing that either, because of all the time that it took just to get here, to a job that I really like.

I am leaving on a trip today, I guess I am feeling it.

Thanks for listening.

Radii 10-14-2005 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan
My wife and I always try and keep a runnning track of things that we have had to tell our kids, that are things that you should not ever have to tell your kids. Some of these are pretty funny.


Your kids really like poop. I know all (boys at least) find poop to be a hilarious thing to talk about, but wow!

PilotMan 10-14-2005 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii
Your kids really like poop. I know all (boys at least) find poop to be a hilarious thing to talk about, but wow!



Ohhhh, have I got a story or two for you! You have no idea.

This is an exerpt from a journal writing that my wife did:

From Feb 22, 2005 -
"Zachary has taken to poop painting. It's really gross to discuss but on three seprerate occasions he's removed his diaper, taken the poop out, or squated and pooped on his train set, filled up the freight cars and taken it for a ride, stopping to rub it on any available surface. Can I say yuck?"

Yeah, glad we are past that stage. Ean had a day where he was supposed to lay down for his nap, he took his diaper off, pooped in the crib and had painted it all over his toys, crib, himself. Needless to say he was off to the bath.

FrogMan 10-14-2005 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan
One of the biggest problems that I face is where to draw the line between being a parent with a lot of influence in my children's lives and where to be the bread winner and be responsible for our quality of life. My job is unique in that I am not home every day. In fact, I can be gone for days at a time and home again for days at a time. Sometimes, the transition between daddy being home and gone is difficult. My family gets into routines that I screw up by being home, and that is a source for friction.

We live in very fragile financial state. The investment to do what I do was very costly. Not only in terms of lost wages by being a student for 13mo, but also making next to nothing for 2 yrs. Look at it this way, my wife worked a part time job while I worked 2 jobs. In the end, she still made more money than I did. The cost of my training, coupled with the CC debt and money borrowed from family members has put us in a large hole. Think 6 figures plus. About 80% of the debt is off the books, as it is money that I owe my parents, and money that is not in my name. But it is still money owed. Of course, at the time the aviation industry was in a good state, and the expected return on investment was very good compared to comparable industries. Not so much now.

Kids go through this very important development stage up to the age of 3, where they are developing the personality, and mindset that will set the stage for how they develop the rest of thier lives. Cole's three and under years were hard, and it is plain to see the impact that it had on him, and how it affects him today. Basically, his Mom worked up to 3 jobs at a time, and he stayed home with his deadbeat grandma. This was like being on his own essentially, as she didn't pay a whole lot of attention to him.

Anyway, back to the point, my wife and I share the opinion that our family is more important than being financially secure. I need to be home as much as my job will allow, so that I can be the leader, father, and have the impact on my kids lives that I missed out upon as my parents divorced when I was two. Yet, I am the bread winner, it is my problem if we can't pay the bills. It is my problem if our house/duplex is too small for our family. It is my problem if there isn't enough money send our kids to any extra activities, like soccer, instrument lessons, karate, etc.

I feel totally handcuffed. I have held the road that my family is #1, and I try and stay home as much as I can, but I feel horrible when we can't afford to do things, and we struggle on our tight budget every month.

Now, with the company in bankruptcy, there are going to be layoffs (furlough's) as well as a pay cut. I don't make a whole lot, my base is around 36k, but I should make around 50k this year. The pay cut is going to be in the neighborhood of 10-13%. That is going to be significant to us. I still have to feed 5 people. I still have to pay the bills, and and the credit cards that got us through training.

So now there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Our lives are stuck here in limbo, when we though we would be getting free of some of it, we are mired in a bog that won't let us go. We are so tired of just getting by. Tired, of going paycheck to paychek. Tired of never seeing or feeling like we are making any progress. And I am tired of feeling like a failure and that I have let my family down, or lead them down the wrong path. A failure that I have family members holding promissory notes and not able to pay them any money. I am squeezed by the fact that I have to be committed to this career, that I cannot work for a smaller airline, as I couldn't handle the paycut. The other option is to leave the career alltoghether and go back to restaurant management, or something else where I could start off making the same amount of money right away. Right now, I can't see doing that either, because of all the time that it took just to get here, to a job that I really like.

I am leaving on a trip today, I guess I am feeling it.

Thanks for listening.


wow, rough times. :( Hang in there my friend, there'll be better days. Just so you know my words are not empty, let me tell you our story, which I find so very similar to yours, albeit probably not as serious (although when you're in it, it's always the most serious situation in the world).

When we got our house built in 1999, it was under the assumption that we had two salaries to pay for it, two fairly good, if not huge salaries. Not a big house mind you, but a nice two story house, that maybe was stretching our
budget a little but that we still could afford. Only Andrew was in the picture at the time, but we designed the floorplan of the house with a third bedroom on the second floor of the house. 2004 came and Matthew came with it, in
January. There's a nice government plan in Quebec that allows a mom to take up to a year off work while receiving about 55% or her previous income, so my wife was to go back to work in November or so. As the months were going by, she started dreading going back to work, well not really back to work, but back to doing that work. It was not evolving into what they'd promised her she would be doing. I told her, maybe now was the time to look for something else, relaunch your career, which she did. She found a place where she would start in January, in her field of work, Plastics transformation, where she'd be doing more mould designing and no Quality Assurance, which she was absolutely tired of doing. (she once told me she'd jump off a cliff instead of going back to being a manager in Quality Assurance. I went a bit parano and told her to never ever use this analogy, EVER) Fast forward to January, she starts her new job, with a little pay cut, but that was okay, we were still doing fine. I had to cut on a few of my enjoyments, but kids were not missing of anything and house payments were not that big a hurdle. They decided to let her go in April, after less than three months, telling her they thought she would never be any good in design. She was devastated. She started looking for another job, which she foudn after a month. That new job is where she is now. It involves adjusting and installing plastic moulds, a very physical job in which she works night shifts, for 60% the pay rate she used to work in the job she had before Matthew was born. We're now really stretched. Kids are still not missing anything, but we've cut all entertainment expenses, save for my one buy of a game a year (you now know why I enjoy FM2005 so much, it's my one big expense ;))

When I say our situation is similar to yours is when I read you say "I am leaving on a trip today, I guess I am feeling it." It's exactly how she felt on Sunday night when she had to go in to work. She'd now realized she probably wouldn't be doing this physical job all her life, but every start of a new week would bring her down more and she'd be irritable all Sunday long, leading to her not enjoying being around the kids as much, until I talked her into consulting her doctor. She was diagnosed with severe depression about three weeks ago and prescribed medications. She's been seeing a psychologist once a week since then and she's feeling better, smilier (is that a word) by the day. We're not all that much better financially, but she keeps looking, with enthusiasm now, instead of dread.

What I mean by my very long story is that, you don't know how, you don't know when, but things will get better.

Best of luck to you...

FM

PilotMan 10-14-2005 12:02 PM

You know it could be worse. We put two offers on houses this summer. Both were rejected. If we had purchased the house our situation would be dire. At least we still rent, and at least it is affordable. If we had purchased a house we would be in bankruptcy right now.

sachmo71 10-14-2005 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan
One of the biggest problems that I face is where to draw the line between being a parent with a lot of influence in my children's lives and where to be the bread winner and be responsible for our quality of life. My job is unique in that I am not home every day. In fact, I can be gone for days at a time and home again for days at a time. Sometimes, the transition between daddy being home and gone is difficult. My family gets into routines that I screw up by being home, and that is a source for friction.

We live in very fragile financial state. The investment to do what I do was very costly. Not only in terms of lost wages by being a student for 13mo, but also making next to nothing for 2 yrs. Look at it this way, my wife worked a part time job while I worked 2 jobs. In the end, she still made more money than I did. The cost of my training, coupled with the CC debt and money borrowed from family members has put us in a large hole. Think 6 figures plus. About 80% of the debt is off the books, as it is money that I owe my parents, and money that is not in my name. But it is still money owed. Of course, at the time the aviation industry was in a good state, and the expected return on investment was very good compared to comparable industries. Not so much now.

Kids go through this very important development stage up to the age of 3, where they are developing the personality, and mindset that will set the stage for how they develop the rest of thier lives. Cole's three and under years were hard, and it is plain to see the impact that it had on him, and how it affects him today. Basically, his Mom worked up to 3 jobs at a time, and he stayed home with his deadbeat grandma. This was like being on his own essentially, as she didn't pay a whole lot of attention to him.

Anyway, back to the point, my wife and I share the opinion that our family is more important than being financially secure. I need to be home as much as my job will allow, so that I can be the leader, father, and have the impact on my kids lives that I missed out upon as my parents divorced when I was two. Yet, I am the bread winner, it is my problem if we can't pay the bills. It is my problem if our house/duplex is too small for our family. It is my problem if there isn't enough money send our kids to any extra activities, like soccer, instrument lessons, karate, etc.

I feel totally handcuffed. I have held the road that my family is #1, and I try and stay home as much as I can, but I feel horrible when we can't afford to do things, and we struggle on our tight budget every month.

Now, with the company in bankruptcy, there are going to be layoffs (furlough's) as well as a pay cut. I don't make a whole lot, my base is around 36k, but I should make around 50k this year. The pay cut is going to be in the neighborhood of 10-13%. That is going to be significant to us. I still have to feed 5 people. I still have to pay the bills, and and the credit cards that got us through training.

So now there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Our lives are stuck here in limbo, when we though we would be getting free of some of it, we are mired in a bog that won't let us go. We are so tired of just getting by. Tired, of going paycheck to paychek. Tired of never seeing or feeling like we are making any progress. And I am tired of feeling like a failure and that I have let my family down, or lead them down the wrong path. A failure that I have family members holding promissory notes and not able to pay them any money. I am squeezed by the fact that I have to be committed to this career, that I cannot work for a smaller airline, as I couldn't handle the paycut. The other option is to leave the career alltoghether and go back to restaurant management, or something else where I could start off making the same amount of money right away. Right now, I can't see doing that either, because of all the time that it took just to get here, to a job that I really like.

I am leaving on a trip today, I guess I am feeling it.

Thanks for listening.



Pilotman,

That sounds like an awful postion to be in. I hope things work out for you guys. I have a feeling avation will open back up again once fuel prices go down and stay down for a while. As you know, in resturant management, you hardly have any time at home anyway if you want to get anywhere, and the work pretty much sucks.

KevinNU7 10-14-2005 02:38 PM

Hey Qwik congrats on the move to Australia (General Discussion) hope everything works out alright with Zia

Buzzbee 10-14-2005 06:51 PM

Hmmm...great idea Coug, but that's what I've come to expect from you. I'll post more when I have time.

It sounds like I'm a bit out of place in this thread. Radii is probably my closest ally. I have two daughters, 14 and 10. Both are from my wife's previous marriage. My oldest was 6 when my wife and I met, the youngest 2. We got married when they were 8 and 4. I adopted them both 3 years ago. I never had the joy of diapers, thank goodness, but I'm getting paid back for it now.

Steph, 14, is a freshman in high school. I hate high school boys. ERRRRRR!!!!! Stay AWAY from my DAUGHTER!! She doesn't make it easy though. She has to be in constant contact with her friends. She will be on the house phone, her cell phone, or AIM. Sometimes all three!!!

Needless to say, Sammi is quite the 10 year old angel at this point. Her sister makes her look gooooooood.

I'm sure I'll have lots of stories for y'all.


By the way, in regard to "I'm sorry" don't worry it will go away. However, it will be replaced by "Just kidding" right after they say the meanest thing they could possibly say.

Whhheeeeeee!!!! This is fun!!

Qwikshot 10-14-2005 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinNU7
Hey Qwik congrats on the move to Australia (General Discussion) hope everything works out alright with Zia


Well it's just two weeks, it'll be, "Can I really live here" type of experience...Zia is cool with it, but I know she's a bit apprehensive.

But I plan just to see if I'll like it...I wouldn't abandon Zia.

oliegirl 10-15-2005 11:29 AM

Quote:

By the way, in regard to "I'm sorry" don't worry it will go away. However, it will be replaced by "Just kidding" right after they say the meanest thing they could possibly say.

I don't know which post this is in regard to, but it reminded me of something that is driving me crazy, so I'll post about it:

Anthony has recently started a very annoying habit. When he does something wrong and one of us says "Anthony, why did you do that", or "Anthony, be careful", or "Anthony, pay more attention to what you are doing"...his response is to look at whoever is talking to him with this stupid expression - kind of like to say "I know you are speaking English, but I have no idea what you just said to me". He stands like this, not saying anything or doing anything, until one of us tells him what to do. Case in point...

He had a plastic glass on a coaster, and when he picked it up, the coaster was attached to the glass - I told him "Anthony, watch what you are doing" but he stood there and just looked at me until the coaster fell off the cup and onto his dinner plate which was covered in syrup (waffles for dinner every once in a while). Then I said "Anthony, please pay more attention to what you are doing", at which point he balanced the plate on one hand while trying to pick the coaster out of the syrup...which is when I said "No, just leave it and put it in the sink to be washed"...but it was too late and the coaster slipped out of his hand and landed on the carpet. I figured he would be smart enough to know to put the plate down, pick up the coaster, and then bring everything into the kitchen to be washed. But he just stood there. So I said, "Pick up the coaster"...he picked it up and stood there. So I said "Put everything in the sink", but he just stared at me...which is when I lost it and yelled for radii to come handle the situation. Once everything was in the sink and the carpet was wiped up, I figured I'd get an "I'm sorry" - but nothing, he just continued to stand there like a bump on a log. Which made me angrier. So I looked at Richard and said "All that, and we still haven't even heard I am sorry"...Anthony says "I'm sorry" and then we go through the speech about how if you have to ask for an apology, it doesn't really mean much and if you do something wrong, just apologize for it and then fix it.

Fast forward to yesterday - we get over to my dad's house to hang out awhile before karate. After about 2 hours, we head out and I see that his car door is open...I say "Why is your door open"...he looks at the door and says "I dont' know". I say "Well, did you close it"...he says "I guess not". So I take some deep breaths, get in and start the car...as we are backing out of the driveway I say "Hmm, still no I'm Sorry". He says "I'm sorry" but clearly doesn't mean it, and I have to go through the whole speech again.

I never thought saying I'm sorry was a difficult thing. We have told him millions of times that just saying it means alot to the other person, and that it's a good thing to say when you have done something wrong or messed up - even if it's just something small. Any ideas of how to get this through his thick skull????

Buzzbee 10-15-2005 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliegirl
I don't know which post this is in regard to, but it reminded me of something that is driving me crazy, so I'll post about it:

Anthony has recently started a very annoying habit. When he does something wrong and one of us says "Anthony, why did you do that", or "Anthony, be careful", or "Anthony, pay more attention to what you are doing"...his response is to look at whoever is talking to him with this stupid expression - kind of like to say "I know you are speaking English, but I have no idea what you just said to me". He stands like this, not saying anything or doing anything, until one of us tells him what to do. Case in point...

He had a plastic glass on a coaster, and when he picked it up, the coaster was attached to the glass - I told him "Anthony, watch what you are doing" but he stood there and just looked at me until the coaster fell off the cup and onto his dinner plate which was covered in syrup (waffles for dinner every once in a while). Then I said "Anthony, please pay more attention to what you are doing", at which point he balanced the plate on one hand while trying to pick the coaster out of the syrup...which is when I said "No, just leave it and put it in the sink to be washed"...but it was too late and the coaster slipped out of his hand and landed on the carpet. I figured he would be smart enough to know to put the plate down, pick up the coaster, and then bring everything into the kitchen to be washed. But he just stood there. So I said, "Pick up the coaster"...he picked it up and stood there. So I said "Put everything in the sink", but he just stared at me...which is when I lost it and yelled for radii to come handle the situation. Once everything was in the sink and the carpet was wiped up, I figured I'd get an "I'm sorry" - but nothing, he just continued to stand there like a bump on a log. Which made me angrier. So I looked at Richard and said "All that, and we still haven't even heard I am sorry"...Anthony says "I'm sorry" and then we go through the speech about how if you have to ask for an apology, it doesn't really mean much and if you do something wrong, just apologize for it and then fix it.

Fast forward to yesterday - we get over to my dad's house to hang out awhile before karate. After about 2 hours, we head out and I see that his car door is open...I say "Why is your door open"...he looks at the door and says "I dont' know". I say "Well, did you close it"...he says "I guess not". So I take some deep breaths, get in and start the car...as we are backing out of the driveway I say "Hmm, still no I'm Sorry". He says "I'm sorry" but clearly doesn't mean it, and I have to go through the whole speech again.

I never thought saying I'm sorry was a difficult thing. We have told him millions of times that just saying it means alot to the other person, and that it's a good thing to say when you have done something wrong or messed up - even if it's just something small. Any ideas of how to get this through his thick skull????


My first thought is that since these were 'accidents' he doesn't feel a need to say he is sorry. If he intentionally got syrup on the carpet, I'm guessing an "I'm sorry" would follow. Since he didn't intend to leave the car door open, and since no harm was done, he probably doesn't think there is a need for an "I'm sorry."

Just my guess.

FrogMan 10-15-2005 09:11 PM

We all get our little momemts of pride where we can...

I've been venting about Andrew quite a bit around here but today the kid made daddy proud, so I have to say it too...

We had karate class, him with a kids group, me with an adults group. The two class are separate by a wall, in a way, both teachers are back to back, with a wall that goes about 80% of the width of the two classes, meaning I can see his class through the multiple mirrors on the side wall if I want to, and he can see mine the same way. I try to not pay too much attention to his class, since I do karate also for me and I want to be the example of what to do, and practicing is what I want him to do, not stare at is dad.

Anyway, I caught glimpes of what they'd been working on today and it was about the same we'd been working on on our side, self-defense techniques. Comes the end of both our classes. On our side of the wall, after meditation, our teacher went through some general comments on what we worked on and how we should gear our practicing in the future, all the while I'm hearing my son's teacher talking and he doesn't look happy. I'm hearing stuff like "some of you didn't pay attention", "some other were just not working well at all", "I was disappointed with some of you"... At that point, I have no direct line of view to where my son is sitting, but you know what goes through my mind: "there we go again, Andrew's been fooling around more than practicing" all that based on his past in either the schoolroom, or in some karate practices, where he's been known to fool around and not always practice when asked to.

Final salute to my teacher comes, say bye to my teacher and my son comes walking my way, neither smiling, nor pouting, the kind of hard to gauge face. Walking by Stephane, Andrew's teacher, I simply something like : "so tough class today, how was Andrew?" and his answer is what made daddy proud... "Oh Andrew practiced real well today, he really wasn't one of the bad ones"

Needless to say, I was glowing :) I congratulated Andrew on his good karate work ethics and told him that he couldn't have made me prouder than by simply doing what he's supposed to do, that I didn't need anything superspecial from him. I kind of got the feeling he was happy I made him the remark, but he really glowed too when we got home and I told the story to my wife, his mom. He looked so proud to have been mentioned as a good worker, was nice to see :)

That is all for today.

FM

Radii 10-16-2005 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzbee
My first thought is that since these were 'accidents' he doesn't feel a need to say he is sorry. If he intentionally got syrup on the carpet, I'm guessing an "I'm sorry" would follow. Since he didn't intend to leave the car door open, and since no harm was done, he probably doesn't think there is a need for an "I'm sorry."


In many of those types of cases an outright apology isn't really expected. An "oops" or anything at all acknowledging the fact that something wasn't the way it should be would be perfectly fine with me. It's one of those things when, no matter how brief the comment/lecture/lesson may be, he just gives you a dull stare that seems to imply that he just wants you to shut up so he can go play.

The ones that come to my mind are times when he has left something of mine or oliegirl's downstairs where the dog can(and inevitably does) eat it. He'll act like he's mad at us for having him pick up the mess, and certainly shows no remorse for allowing something that wasn't his to get destroyed(another constant battle, if it's not his, it's pretty much worthless, course that's one of the ones where I certainly remember being that way as a kid so it's easier for me to deal with).

WSUCougar 10-17-2005 09:47 AM

Soccer went very well. Drew did what the coach asked almost the whole time...he still needs to work on his scrimmage skills (i.e., actually trying to kick the ball would be nice, heh), but definitely his best practice.

We topped that off with a local train show, and he had a great Saturday.

sachmo71 10-17-2005 11:31 AM

I'm at home today with my son, who is sick. :(
He's such a sweet kid, even in the midst of the "terrible twos".
He says "No!" a lot, and sometimes hits, but he's quick to say he's sorry, so it's not that bad. He's learning.

My concern with him is that he's going to be a sensative guy. I live that...it's sort of a double edged sword. Hopefully I can teach him a few things about how to deal with it, but unfortunately, he's going to have to learn a lot of things on his own.

I feel for him...I really do. It's not all bad, but his school years are going to be interesting. :)

WSUCougar 10-17-2005 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachmo71
My concern with him is that he's going to be a sensative guy. I live that...it's sort of a double edged sword. Hopefully I can teach him a few things about how to deal with it, but unfortunately, he's going to have to learn a lot of things on his own.

Me too. On all counts.

WSUCougar 10-19-2005 10:12 AM

Have any of you seen the penguin claymation show "Pingu" on PBS Kids Sprout?

Good god, is it hilarious. It might wear off eventually, but as of now it is laugh-out-loud funny to me (and my wife) virtually every time I see it.

Oh, and Drew likes it, too. ;)

sachmo71 10-19-2005 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar
Have any of you seen the penguin claymation show "Pingu" on PBS Kids Sprout?

Good god, is it hilarious. It might wear off eventually, but as of now it is laugh-out-loud funny to me (and my wife) virtually every time I see it.

Oh, and Drew likes it, too. ;)



no, but i'll watch for it. what time does it usually run?

FrogMan 10-19-2005 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachmo71
no, but i'll watch for it. what time does it usually run?


same here, I'll keep an eye for it.

Speaking of TV shows, Matty is only getting interested in TV and he's absolutely hooked on a Quebec made kiddie show called "Caillou". Andrew had many tapes of it and we pulled one out over the weekend and Matty just stayed there, mesmerized by the TV screen :)

While we've got mostly tapes of it in French, I know they made an English version of it and that PBS was showing it. I recommend it for kiddos ages 18 months up to maybe 4. Caillou is a little boy and the show tells stories of his everyday life.

Just found the pbs page for the show:
http://pbskids.org/caillou/

FM

ibnsgirl 10-19-2005 12:49 PM

Not that Lucy is anywhere near old enough, but it's too bad we don't get PBS. I have fond memories of Sesame Street... At least we have Baby Einstein on dvd.

And penguins are funny period. I'll try to catch Pingu next time we are in the big city.

WSUCougar 10-19-2005 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachmo71
what time does it usually run?

It's on as a short "tweener" throughout the day. The new Sprout format makes shows harder to track.

And Drew really enjoys the English version of Caillou, FrogMan.

PilotMan 10-19-2005 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

And Drew really enjoys the English version of Caillou, FrogMan.


As does Zachary. He says, "it's about a little boy who is just like me." You should check our pbskids.org, and see the games that are there for little ones based on the tv shows.

PilotMan 10-19-2005 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliegirl
I don't know which post this is in regard to, but it reminded me of something that is driving me crazy, so I'll post about it:

Anthony has recently started a very annoying habit. When he does something wrong and one of us says "Anthony, why did you do that", or "Anthony, be careful", or "Anthony, pay more attention to what you are doing"...his response is to look at whoever is talking to him with this stupid expression - kind of like to say "I know you are speaking English, but I have no idea what you just said to me". He stands like this, not saying anything or doing anything, until one of us tells him what to do. Case in point...

He had a plastic glass on a coaster, and when he picked it up, the coaster was attached to the glass - I told him "Anthony, watch what you are doing" but he stood there and just looked at me until the coaster fell off the cup and onto his dinner plate which was covered in syrup (waffles for dinner every once in a while). Then I said "Anthony, please pay more attention to what you are doing", at which point he balanced the plate on one hand while trying to pick the coaster out of the syrup...which is when I said "No, just leave it and put it in the sink to be washed"...but it was too late and the coaster slipped out of his hand and landed on the carpet. I figured he would be smart enough to know to put the plate down, pick up the coaster, and then bring everything into the kitchen to be washed. But he just stood there. So I said, "Pick up the coaster"...he picked it up and stood there. So I said "Put everything in the sink", but he just stared at me...which is when I lost it and yelled for radii to come handle the situation. Once everything was in the sink and the carpet was wiped up, I figured I'd get an "I'm sorry" - but nothing, he just continued to stand there like a bump on a log. Which made me angrier. So I looked at Richard and said "All that, and we still haven't even heard I am sorry"...Anthony says "I'm sorry" and then we go through the speech about how if you have to ask for an apology, it doesn't really mean much and if you do something wrong, just apologize for it and then fix it.

Fast forward to yesterday - we get over to my dad's house to hang out awhile before karate. After about 2 hours, we head out and I see that his car door is open...I say "Why is your door open"...he looks at the door and says "I dont' know". I say "Well, did you close it"...he says "I guess not". So I take some deep breaths, get in and start the car...as we are backing out of the driveway I say "Hmm, still no I'm Sorry". He says "I'm sorry" but clearly doesn't mean it, and I have to go through the whole speech again.

I never thought saying I'm sorry was a difficult thing. We have told him millions of times that just saying it means alot to the other person, and that it's a good thing to say when you have done something wrong or messed up - even if it's just something small. Any ideas of how to get this through his thick skull????


I was reading this and I think that he is just being a boy. Cole has done and still does things similar. It is a brutal phase as parents. I have come to the point that boys go through this phase where, things like this and FM's lying are where the boys are trying to figure out how the "world" works. They havn't developed logic, and are therefore incapable of acting on it. I have a funny feeling that it is also how teenage boys get into trouble as they get a little older too. For instance, why did I jump my VW Bug over some RR tracks and make it pretend like it was the "Dukes of Hazzard?" I would never do this now, nor did I even comprehend how much damage I could have done to the car or myself, or my 2 passengers. Crazy, but it all boils down to logic. Boys will try the most rediculous things because they are learning. I have hammered Cole so many times, and caught him in so many lies, and he knew that I already knew the truth. Still he just didn't want to admit what he did, or lied to see if it would work to get him out of trouble. As a parent it is like banging your head on a brick wall. Basically, I don't think that there is anything wrong with either of them. I would say they are both totally normal.

Radii 10-19-2005 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan
For instance, why did I jump my VW Bug over some RR tracks and make it pretend like it was the "Dukes of Hazzard?"


Because the Dukes of Hazzard was freaking awesome!!! I see no problem with this.

Quote:

I would say they are both totally normal.

I agree here. With Oliegirl's and my son, we see that he is so incredibly smart and picks up on things at all different levels so quickly, so when he gets stuck on something and goes through a phase, normal or not, where he just can't progress to the next level of thinking over a long period of time, it is frustrating. But I don't doubt at all that its normal.

PilotMan 10-21-2005 10:44 AM

Funny story from yesterday. It was naptime at our house and I was dozing at the computer, when my 3 yr old, Zachary, runs in screaming what sounds like, "Dos birds are eating mama's tomatoes!" Shaken awake, I think "birds?" I go take a look and birds becomes boys. We have some tomato plants next to a fence that we have been having a problem with neighborhood boys picking them and either eating them or throwing them into our yard. It is pretty late in the season, so I wasn't overly worried about it, but I did talk to them. Anyway, Mrs. PilotMan was being informed of what took place by Zach and he told her that he yelled at them (from his second floor window), and used the magic words. My wife said, "You said, please?" He replied, "No. I said 'GET OUT OF MOMS GARDEN!'" My wife and I both cracked up. I love this age.

FrogMan 10-21-2005 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan
Funny story from yesterday. It was naptime at our house and I was dozing at the computer, when my 3 yr old, Zachary, runs in screaming what sounds like, "Dos birds are eating mama's tomatoes!" Shaken awake, I think "birds?" I go take a look and birds becomes boys. We have some tomato plants next to a fence that we have been having a problem with neighborhood boys picking them and either eating them or throwing them into our yard. It is pretty late in the season, so I wasn't overly worried about it, but I did talk to them. Anyway, Mrs. PilotMan was being informed of what took place by Zach and he told her that he yelled at them (from his second floor window), and used the magic words. My wife said, "You said, please?" He replied, "No. I said 'GET OUT OF MOMS GARDEN!'" My wife and I both cracked up. I love this age.


LOL! :D

FM

MacroGuru 10-21-2005 11:24 AM

Hows this....

So, I hate facial hair, but I have been attempting to grow a goatte (I say attempt because I look really awful with it, and honestly, facial hair growth isn't in me right now) for my Halloween Costume of being a pirate.

So the baby, Nicholas, has just tortured my poor wife yesterday, so when I get home, I go and take him from her. He starts wailing and gives me the who the hell are you look. I try to fight past it, thinking he was just upset I took him from her. He keeps it up, and I am just getting frustrated, and the wife says "I don't think he likes the facial hair" I laugh it off as nonsense....but he cries and does not want anything to do with me.

Well, I go upstairs and shave........guess who is daddy's little guy again...He just didn't want the weird looking stranger holding him....

sachmo71 10-21-2005 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indoorsoccersim
Hows this....

So, I hate facial hair, but I have been attempting to grow a goatte (I say attempt because I look really awful with it, and honestly, facial hair growth isn't in me right now) for my Halloween Costume of being a pirate.

So the baby, Nicholas, has just tortured my poor wife yesterday, so when I get home, I go and take him from her. He starts wailing and gives me the who the hell are you look. I try to fight past it, thinking he was just upset I took him from her. He keeps it up, and I am just getting frustrated, and the wife says "I don't think he likes the facial hair" I laugh it off as nonsense....but he cries and does not want anything to do with me.

Well, I go upstairs and shave........guess who is daddy's little guy again...He just didn't want the weird looking stranger holding him....


Which is why I had to sport my goat two more years than I wanted to. :(

WSUCougar 10-21-2005 11:55 AM

Drew uncorked a serious bad dream last night around 2:00 a.m. We had a thunderstorm roll through right before bed time, and I think he took that to heart.

My wife is a lighter sleep than me, so she always hears him first. She asked me to go comfort Drew, but I was groggy and didn't respond fast enough, so she got a little annoyed with me and did it herself. All I knew was that I woke up in the middle of the night and she was a little pissed at me for some reason. ;)

No harm, no foul.

FrogMan 10-21-2005 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar
Drew uncorked a serious bad dream last night around 2:00 a.m. We had a thunderstorm roll through right before bed time, and I think he took that to heart.

My wife is a lighter sleep than me, so she always hears him first. She asked me to go comfort Drew, but I was groggy and didn't respond fast enough, so she got a little annoyed with me and did it herself. All I knew was that I woke up in the middle of the night and she was a little pissed at me for some reason. ;)

No harm, no foul.


hehe, my wife works the night shift so this means I'm all alone at night with the two kids. Last night was the first night I was able to sleep without any interruptions of some sort, I'm not really complaining, just saying. No big deals usually, but always a little thing. Matty has a nightmare and start crying/whining, then Andrew has some unexplained bellyache, but Wednesday night was the one that stood out. I was sleeping with my face to the side of the bed, it was around 3am so I was sound asleep, in a very deep sleep and never heard Andrew creep to the side of my bed. That was until I heard "daddy" in my sleep, only to open my eyes and see him facing me straight on, almost gave me a heart attack :D He simply told told me "the small blanket is all undone in my bed" but there are no real blankets, only sheets and a comforter, so I'm all groggy and sleepy, go take a look and indeed the top sheet had come undone. Took 15 seconds to get it redone and back to bed.

My wife got a big kick out of me telling the "heart attack" story :D

FM

Butter 10-21-2005 12:20 PM

Hi, I have 2 children: Ethan, a 5 1/2 year old and Alex, a 3 1/2 year old.

They both have trouble listening to me and my wife. I am at work all day, and my wife is home all day, so it doesn't show up to me as much as it does my wife. My wife also babysits, and at various times of the day can have up to 4 other children ranging from 2 to 5 in the house as well.

The biggest problem I think that my wife has is a quick fuse. She comes down on them, hard, a lot, especially my oldest. I think Ethan is basically a good kid, but she rarely praises him. I worry about his self-esteem a lot, and am not sure about how to bring this up to my wife in a gentle way, to tell her that she needs to back off of him a bit and let him grow up. I don't want him growing up thinking he is a bad child or mean. More often than not, he will share without being asked, and will do nice things like get an extra piece of candy for his brother or things like that. But he does have problems staying focused, and will sometimes just seem to lose his mind and do something like trying to rip down his curtains for no apparent reason. He loves seeing how things work, and a lot of times is trying to rip things apart to see what they look like inside, I think. But all of this seems to be lost on my wife, who comes down with a hammer on the slightest of indiscretions.

I love my wife and my children both, and am trying my best to handle this. The other day, when we were teaching Ethan his "sight words" (about 35 words on flashcards that he is learning to read by sight), he started having trouble and my wife started coming down on him as normal (WHY AREN'T YOU LOOKING AT THE CARDS? YOU KNOW THIS ONE! HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO GO OVER THESE?) when she finally gave up and gave the cards to me. I proceeded to calmly help him through them, and he did very well, even seeming to pick up on things a bit better (like noting that you can't just look at the first letter to figure out what the words are). There are times when it seems like he's not trying with the cards, but I think you can more gently guide him through than she does, and I tried to show her that. I can only hope, through my continued actions, that I will show her how to be more patient with him. I think part of it stems from when he was a baby and had colic. He cried for 6 months straight, it seemed like. He has always been a bit fussy, and has a mouth when it comes to my wife... she loves him greatly, I know that, but has a hard time being patient with him.

All I can do is forge on, hope for the best, and try and help us all be a bit calmer.

Butter 10-21-2005 12:21 PM

By the way, WSUCougar, it ticked me off as well that they rearranged the schedule on the PBS channel. Most of all, they took off Mr. Rogers and Reading Rainbow, two of my childhood favorites that the kids pretty much will never see again now that they're not on there.

WSUCougar 10-21-2005 12:32 PM

Welcome, Butter.

Have you discussed this heart-to-heart with your wife? It sounds like she may be frustrated or uncertain how to deal with situations like that. It might also be worth talking it out if you have different viewpoints.

I have found it very hard at times to deal with differing approaches to parenting. My wife is a real softy, and her personality type is such that she usually ends up caving in to Drew rather than confront him on whatever. Not a big deal on the surface, but it has led to some arguments between us because I am more of the hard-liner when it comes to discipline and improper behavior.

CamEdwards 10-21-2005 12:59 PM

I can't believe I haven't found this thread until now.

With five kids, I have plenty to bitch about. Right now the biggest problem is with my 14-year old, who is in constant trouble at school with his grades.

After having to go to summer school because he failed math, we got his progress report last week. 2 A's, 1 B, 3 D's, 1 F.

He's not dumb. He doesn't have ADD. He's just a slob and loses his homework or forgets to write down his assignments. We've done folders for each class, we've got the agenda he's supposed to use every day. Nothing works.

I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to deal with this year in and year out. I was lazy in school, but never enough to fail.

Butter 10-21-2005 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar
Have you discussed this heart-to-heart with your wife?


We have talks every so often about parenting, and I always tell her she just needs to try and be more patient. It usually works for about 2 days, and then the kids will stick something down the heating vent or refuse to listen to her for a couple of hours and it's all out the window.

I'll keep trying though.

FrogMan 10-21-2005 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamEdwards
I can't believe I haven't found this thread until now.


you know, I almost sent you a pm a couple weeks ago to tell you about this thread. I was certain you hadn't seen it or you'd be posting in it.

Another we should possibly tell about this thread is Ksyrup :)

Don't know what to tell you about your kid though, other that I feel for you. Rough times. Good luck!

FM

sachmo71 10-21-2005 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamEdwards
I can't believe I haven't found this thread until now.

With five kids, I have plenty to bitch about. Right now the biggest problem is with my 14-year old, who is in constant trouble at school with his grades.

After having to go to summer school because he failed math, we got his progress report last week. 2 A's, 1 B, 3 D's, 1 F.

He's not dumb. He doesn't have ADD. He's just a slob and loses his homework or forgets to write down his assignments. We've done folders for each class, we've got the agenda he's supposed to use every day. Nothing works.

I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to deal with this year in and year out. I was lazy in school, but never enough to fail.



As someone who was allowed to fail, all I can say is that I wish now that someone had jumped my ass when i was his age. Losing rights is a good place to start, I think.

CamEdwards 10-21-2005 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachmo71
As someone who was allowed to fail, all I can say is that I wish now that someone had jumped my ass when i was his age. Losing rights is a good place to start, I think.


Believe me, we've tried taking away rights. We've tried rewards. I'm now to the point that I've told him "there is nothing more I can do. You know what you have to do and if you don't, you'll fail."

Part of the problem is my wife is too easy on him, in my opinion. My wife's brother was apparently spookily similar to my son in terms of their personality. My wife's brother killed himself when he was 19. I think my wife is afraid of being tough on my son because she fears he'll become depressed and possibly do something drastic.

I've seen no signs of depression or anything like that, btw. I just see a lazy teenager.

Barkeep49 10-22-2005 12:12 AM

Cam just to back you up: If a kid keeps failing is that going to make him more or less depressed? Having a son with trouble in school is no easy thing and I wish you the best as you do your best to try and help him back on to the path.

ibnsgirl 10-22-2005 03:25 PM

Hi y'all!

Don't know what to say, Butter, but I know that I can be like your wife to some degree. Mind you, I have a 16 week old, so my expectations are pretty low as to what all she can do ;)
Nevertheless, my nights are kinda chopped-up what with feeding Lucy and everything, and sometimes I am just so blamed tired that I can hardly see straight. When I get to that point, my patience gets really short. Additionaly, when I get frustrated, same thing happens.

I'm still in the learning phase on so much of this that I get confused/frustrated/lose my perspective pretty easily. For example, Lucy and I are starting to do better at night when it is time for her to go to sleep, but it can be trying. Some things I was reading were saying that she just needed to cry it out, some that I needed to comfort her but without her sucking on something, and then some that whatever worked, including sucking, was ok. Of course, the first two methods said that if I didn't do it that way, she was destined straight for the therapist's office. Long story short, Tony has to remind me that basically I know what is right for our daughter, even if it is not necessarily mainstream (think slightly granola). The point here is that Tony often has intervene for me to redirect myself and calm down.

I doubt that anything here is helpful since I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know, but at the very least I empathize. I don't like being around me when my patience is stressed. Keep doing what you are doing as far as setting a good example and trying to keep tensions down and by keeping the lines of communication open with your wife.

WSUCougar 10-22-2005 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibnsgirl
I doubt that anything here is helpful since I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know, but at the very least I empathize. I don't like being around me when my patience is stressed. Keep doing what you are doing as far as setting a good example and trying to keep tensions down and by keeping the lines of communication open with your wife.

Right on! I don't much like the "impatient me" either.

Couple things when parenting, particularly an infant (again, probably stating the obvious, but just to reinforce):

1. Allow yourself to get frustrated. You are human. Don't beat yourself up over feeling overwhelmed at times. You are probably low on sleep and are constantly getting tested in a unique way because there is virtually no interaction. It's all "baby does X, so I have to cope with it." Sometimes my wife and I look back and think that nature tests your limits as a parent intentionally...it's like a rite of passage. You get more closely bonded through this trial by fire.

2. When possible, get some separation if you are stressed. Arrange some down time for each other. If you can work it, have one parent do the whole "night shift" so the other can get some uninterrupted sleep, then switch roles.

ibnsgirl 10-22-2005 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indoorsoccersim
Hows this....

So, I hate facial hair, but I have been attempting to grow a goatte (I say attempt because I look really awful with it, and honestly, facial hair growth isn't in me right now) for my Halloween Costume of being a pirate.

So the baby, Nicholas, has just tortured my poor wife yesterday, so when I get home, I go and take him from her. He starts wailing and gives me the who the hell are you look. I try to fight past it, thinking he was just upset I took him from her. He keeps it up, and I am just getting frustrated, and the wife says "I don't think he likes the facial hair" I laugh it off as nonsense....but he cries and does not want anything to do with me.

Well, I go upstairs and shave........guess who is daddy's little guy again...He just didn't want the weird looking stranger holding him....

I forgot to say something about this, Dennis...

If you think the sense of smell isn't important, Lucy hates it when I shower. Several weeks ago I showered while Tony held Lucy. After I was all finished, I picked her up and she started wailing. The more I talked to her, in fact, the louder she screamed. It finally dawned on me to put on the shirt I had been wearing earlier, and viola, she settled right down. Her reaction it turns out, was pretty much: "YOU ARE NOT MY MOM AND YOU ARE NOT FOOLING ME BY USING HER VOICE!!" Dang, didn't think I smelled that bad...

Not to worry, she isn't getting her way on this one ;). No way that I'm about to quit showering for her. She is getting better, though; now only fusses for a while. :)

Galaxy 10-22-2005 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamEdwards
I can't believe I haven't found this thread until now.

With five kids, I have plenty to bitch about. Right now the biggest problem is with my 14-year old, who is in constant trouble at school with his grades.

After having to go to summer school because he failed math, we got his progress report last week. 2 A's, 1 B, 3 D's, 1 F.

He's not dumb. He doesn't have ADD. He's just a slob and loses his homework or forgets to write down his assignments. We've done folders for each class, we've got the agenda he's supposed to use every day. Nothing works.

I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to deal with this year in and year out. I was lazy in school, but never enough to fail.


Sounds like me at that age, though my D's were usually C's, and maybe B's. I was a slob, lost my homework or forgot my assignments. It wasn't until I was junior I started to pull my grades up, got into a solid four-year university, and should pull my overall GPA to at least a 3.0 after this semester (will be a senior after this one).

illinifan999 10-22-2005 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamEdwards
I can't believe I haven't found this thread until now.

With five kids, I have plenty to bitch about. Right now the biggest problem is with my 14-year old, who is in constant trouble at school with his grades.

After having to go to summer school because he failed math, we got his progress report last week. 2 A's, 1 B, 3 D's, 1 F.

He's not dumb. He doesn't have ADD. He's just a slob and loses his homework or forgets to write down his assignments. We've done folders for each class, we've got the agenda he's supposed to use every day. Nothing works.

I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to deal with this year in and year out. I was lazy in school, but never enough to fail.


When he nears 15/16, just tell him if his grades aren't up, he isn't driving. Something will click when it sets in.

Qwikshot 10-23-2005 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan
Funny story from yesterday. It was naptime at our house and I was dozing at the computer, when my 3 yr old, Zachary, runs in screaming what sounds like, "Dos birds are eating mama's tomatoes!" Shaken awake, I think "birds?" I go take a look and birds becomes boys. We have some tomato plants next to a fence that we have been having a problem with neighborhood boys picking them and either eating them or throwing them into our yard. It is pretty late in the season, so I wasn't overly worried about it, but I did talk to them. Anyway, Mrs. PilotMan was being informed of what took place by Zach and he told her that he yelled at them (from his second floor window), and used the magic words. My wife said, "You said, please?" He replied, "No. I said 'GET OUT OF MOMS GARDEN!'" My wife and I both cracked up. I love this age.


I have a story like that...Zia stays with my mom and dad sometimes. We have a neighbor that fails to curb her dog. So we get droppings in the line of lawn next to the sidewalk. My mom must've been complaining because the woman was walking by with her dog. So my mom and Zia are cleaning the house, when my mom notices it is suddenly quiet (this is a warning sign for most parents). She notices Zia is not in the house, and running around frantically she notices that Zia is outside on the stoop, yelling at the woman to clean up after her dog. Children never pull any punches, even at 3 (though Zia is now four soon to be five). Of course, I lectured my mom on letting her wander off.

Zia is here now, we're spending our last weekend together before I take flight. I can feel that she's excited but apprehensive of my trip. Friday and Saturday were rainy and miserable and I can tell she has a slight cold (those triametic menthol patches work wonders). I get a little angry because my ex was there when I went to pick up Zia, and Zia was in clothes while new, were coated with the aroma of cigarettes and pipesmoke. It's raining and I have a raincoat and umbrella for her, my ex hands her fake fur vest for a coat. Then she rushes off to her car, (she does give Zia a big hug goodbye) but realizes she can't leave for work yet (she forgot her cigarettes).

This trip to Australia should be a catharsis for me. If it is everything I imagined, I will be at a crossroads. I gave up on this dream almost five years ago to date my ex and raise Zia, and it's coming up so fast. I don't know what will happen if I enjoy it, feel I could settle down there, it was one thing when I was alone, but for Zia's sake, I don't know if I can ever live there. It is the great divide between the dream of Australia and the dream of being a parent.

I guess that depresses me the most. I had often dreamed of being a young father (not that 30 is old) but I know that settling down is going to be harder for me as the years progress. My parents were young when they married and had my me and my brother, and I guess I wanted to go through that process. I enjoy being a parent, it is really the only thing I have going for me, is having a wonderful child.

I was reading an article in Men's Health about a guy who married his wife when she had a 3 year old daughter. The dealings of a child that has already bonded to her father, and how the new guy is trying to adjust to being a parent. Now Zia knows me as daddy, and I know she calls Craig "daddy", though she usually differentiates between us as me as "my real daddy". I only wish that Craig would be that compassionate, but I fear that while he does care for Zia, that it is not at the same level. I rarely talk to Craig, but I'm never distance (he's usually who is waiting when I have to pick up Zia).

I can still remember the first time he came to pick Zia up (alone). That did not go terribly well, Zia kept making excuses not to leave, even as I strapped her in the car seat and kissed her goodbye. To hearing her cry and scream as he pulled away, you can really doubt God in a situation like that, or if you aren't religious, doubt life. It rattles you, Zia still hates leaving (sometimes), but more of hiding, or delaying, but there are times when she is genuinely happy to see her mom (we switched work hours now, so my ex picks Zia up on Sunday nights now). Those are the times I am relieved, but it is still heartbreaking, I generally am listless for an hour or two afterwards.

My ex got a new job, and I hope, /hope/ that she will finally set an appointment with the doctor. Zia hasn't been there for a checkup since she was 2. She has yet to visit the dentist. My ex never talks about Zia's future, or escapades when we meet, my ex talks about her life. I kept things civil and I only bring my own life into perspective if it will be a conflict in taking care of Zia (i.e. Australia). My ex naturally has to try to compete, not long after I cemented Australia, she told me that she and Craig were planning a trip to Mexico in the spring. There are other things she talks about too (without getting too crazy) which I deem as inappropriate to discuss with your ex, but never about plans about Zia going to preschool (it's too expensive she says) or even kindergarten. These are issues that are I guess non-issues.

I had asked to raise Zia, to become completely responsible. My ex said she would refuse to give up rights, and that while I could raise her "...Craig and I will take her back in a few years..." I just get a pained expression, I have a decent job with good benefits, a strong central family, a wonderful home (courtesy of my brother), in a good neighborhood and good schools. I'm on dayshift now, and I have the cash to not only put Zia in preschool (at the expense of my own pursuits) but also start saving long term for college. I want to see her in dance class, playing a sport, eating right. I want a good social network for her. I want her to know she is loved. I would never prevent Zia from seeing her mom and Craig, and I find that in this scenario, everyone wins. My ex can be the fun mom with little or no responsibilty, her husband will be financially free of obligation, Zia will get the upbringing she deserves, I get piece of mind.

Sadly, I doubt this will ever occur, but I can dream. I guess like Australia, there is a crossroad here as well. I fear that Zia will lag behind soon, even as I impress upon her reading, 911, addresses and phone numbers. Every other weekend is such a small window. She calls me everyday, and I treasure that, because I fear that one day, the calls will stop, as she gets older, she will finally get those opportunities (because the law will say she has to go to school)...and one day I will have to replace this scenario with the hope that she will turn out right, she will continue to be strong and resilent, she will continue to be joyful and bright. Every morning we awake, she's excited, she gives me a good morning hug and kiss, something I did to her when she was too. I used to work 2nd shift, and sleep a few hours after 12, and be up by 6 or 7 to care for Zia (my ex would be off to school; then work -- my mom would watch Zia while I would go to work, then my ex would pick her up after work -- rinse repeat -- when we broke up I actually started getting her after work for a while as well).

I guess I needed to vent, because she's getting older. When I picked her up Friday, I scooped her with one arm and Zia giggled and told my ex ,"Daddy is so strong" And my ex, agreed, not often she compliments me, or agrees with it...but I'll take it.

My friends say I'm a saint, or I'm tough. They say they could never do what I do but I think anyone would. I saw Zia born and I vowed to never leave her. Even when things got bad, really bad, I never threw her mom out, because of what would happen to Zia. Even today, there are times, when I feel like I'm losing out, or losing touch, but Zia somehow always does something to cast these away.

For that I'm grateful...we just finished carving the pumpkin (this will be the first Halloween where I don't take her out). A coworker said, just keep doing things that she'll remember. I think I do them, so I will cherish them too.

WSUCougar 10-23-2005 03:01 PM

Qwik, for what it's worth, I think your devotion to Zia is extraordinary and inspiring. If every kid could have a parent as devoted to loving and raising them as you, the world would be a much better place.

PilotMan 10-23-2005 10:10 PM

Wow Quick, that situation is so hard. I totally know how connected you get to kids. Life changes as soon as you have one, or in your situation are everything but...

Your relationship with her is extraordinary. Coug is right, every kid should have a parent a devoted and dedicated. FWIW, have you considered actually going through the process of formal adoption for her? That would at least give you some legal right to seeing her, although it would also mean that you would be financially responsible for her until she was of age as well. In your situation it is a step that I wouldn't normally ask about, as you are already separeated from her mom, but it seems that you are so connected to her that your life might be better off if you had something that you could hold on to. Of course, it would throw your thoughts of moving to AUS right out the window.

You really have no legal standing here. If you left her (for AUS) and you didn't see her for years, would she feel like you abandoned her? Would she hold it against you? You may not have any legal stand, but you have put youself into a situation where she now expects you to be the dad. Forever, and any change in that situation may have long lasting effects. It is just something to consider.

Let me know if I can help you, or if you just need someone to talk with.

PM

Qwikshot 10-23-2005 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotMan
Wow Quick, that situation is so hard. I totally know how connected you get to kids. Life changes as soon as you have one, or in your situation are everything but...

Your relationship with her is extraordinary. Coug is right, every kid should have a parent a devoted and dedicated. FWIW, have you considered actually going through the process of formal adoption for her? That would at least give you some legal right to seeing her, although it would also mean that you would be financially responsible for her until she was of age as well. In your situation it is a step that I wouldn't normally ask about, as you are already separeated from her mom, but it seems that you are so connected to her that your life might be better off if you had something that you could hold on to. Of course, it would throw your thoughts of moving to AUS right out the window.

You really have no legal standing here. If you left her (for AUS) and you didn't see her for years, would she feel like you abandoned her? Would she hold it against you? You may not have any legal stand, but you have put youself into a situation where she now expects you to be the dad. Forever, and any change in that situation may have long lasting effects. It is just something to consider.

Let me know if I can help you, or if you just need someone to talk with.

PM



I appreciate the comments.

I take it day to day, for what it's worth.

My feeling is this, I would be on a plane, just getting close to landing in L.A. this time next week. With about an hour in a half on the ground before an 11 hour flight to Brisbane.

I am going to for these next two weeks, forget about my obligations, and figure out if being 15k miles from everyone I know and interact with, will truly be a good idea. I plan on getting a few gifts for friends, a postcard to send to Zia, but I'm going in, avoiding the sadness that sometimes envelopes me here. These next two weeks are something I've wanted for years, and I'm seriously committed to the idea of using that time to find substance that I can root down, or if it's just a wonderful place meant to visit.

Adoption wouldn't be objected by my ex. However, I doubt if the state would find it acceptable (talk about making things more complicated). I have contemplated this, but my ex's lifestyle leads me to concern what child support would really go to. So while I live on a precarious precipice, I do so at my own power, once I invite the government in, I can't bar them until Zia is 18. My ex is just flighty and I'm sure from her past upbring (father was a womanizer, drug user, alcoholic, her mother was quiet and submissive, later when my ex was 8 months pregnant, her mom left to pursue a new relationship in Texas. Since her divorce, her mom has stated if it doesn't work, leave it, which my ex embraced). Long as I participate, I get visitation, I doubt my ex would care if I said I didn't want to Zia anymore (not that I would).

Zia gets full attention when we are together...I'm like a hawk. I think Zia misses that when she's with my ex and her husband, because of course, there is a competition for affection. Zia has a hard time dealing with showing affection to more than one person, if there is more than one in the room, Zia will stay with one. I trump my parents, my mom trumps my dad, my brother gets trumped by everyone but today, she genuinely showed affection and attention to both my parents, and when we got home, she rushed to greet my brother, so perhaps she is understanding she can love more than one person at a time...however, when my ex showed at the door, Zia was not happy, and rushed to the tent to hide, it was somewhat playful but somewhat apprehenisve. She was excited when my ex (though somewhat pushed upon) and I agreed that I would watch her Friday night.

Zia knows I'm coming back. I have calmed her fears that I would stay there. My dad joked about it, and Zia in a very serious tone said "daddy is going to visit, to check it out, then he's coming right back." Would she feel abandoned, I think at this age, yes. But Zia is close to kindergarten, and I'm hoping that with the introduction of school, Zia will become more involved in activities. It's only a matter of time before she learns how to type (with the help of Mommy and Craig) emails, webcams, phonecalls can breach the distance, and the fact that my family lives in the area (and is still utilized by my ex to help watch Zia), I feel there will still be a bond. Zia has said if I go to Australia she wants to come, when I asked what she would do on a plane ride that long, she said matter-of-factly "SLEEP!" My ex even said (when I was interviewing for a Hawaii sales job) that they would visit during the summer (granted it would possibly doubtful) but I don't think it would be a far cry if I plane a few trips back East to coincide with say Summer vacation with my parents down the beach, or mid-January when Zia has her birthday.

I bristle though when I'm called father, my ex said it today, and I just don't like it...I actually correct Zia (gently, never do I say don't call me that), and tell her I'm daddy. Zia has a father, and while he is out of the picture, it is his genes that make part of Zia. I think ultimately, that will be the hardest realization for Zia, that I am something else. It is my hope that she is not saddened by it, that it doesn't turn me into a stranger, I have never outright stated anything about Zia's birth father, but I do sometimes elucidate differences...case in point, Zia's mom is from the British Isles, while I'm Italian. I state the differences, and while I say to Zia that she's from an Irish background, I never say she has Italian relatives. Zia has also inquired as to why I was living in Lansdale, when she and Mommy were up in Hershey. While she has nothing to resemble me in looks, she's got my inquisitiveness and my personality (some of it anyway--she can be a wild child too, much like her mother).

I guess, from all of that, you can see I'm dedicated, as long as Zia would understand, I don't think she would see it as abandonment. My hope is that a few years from now, Zia will be older and more capable of understanding. Plus it's not like my ex is single, she's married, and the possibility of a little brother or sister is probably not far away, Zia may have a stable family unit (I hope)...she'll always have her daddy too.

CamEdwards 10-24-2005 12:34 PM

Thought you'd get a kick out of this.

Saturday night the community center near my house hosted a haunted house. Andrew, my five year old, desperately wanted to go. I knew he was too young, but thought I'd let him find out for himself.

So we went, waited in line (in the rain) for 45 minutes, and finally walked inside. I told him "nothing in here is real, it's just people dressed up to scare you, okay?" He nodded his head.

We walk into the first room. It's thick with fog, and you can barely see a casket in the middle of the room. We're standing there, I'm holding his hand, and the casket starts to rock. Andrew immediately says "I want to go!" I pick him up and tell him it's not real, but that I'll hold him and if he wants to go we can. After a minute, the casket opens up, but Andrew can't see it because his head is buried in my shoulder. The ghoul walks around, then climbs back into the casket.

We go into the next room, and Andrew wants to get down. As soon as his feet touch the floor, a guy in a sheet walks up towards him. Andrew climbs me like I'm a ladder, perching on my shoulder and yells "Let's get out of here!" So we left.

Time spent in line: 45 minutes. Time spent in the haunted house: 3 minutes.

The kicker is, after we left he immediately started bugging me to go rent a scary movie for him.

WSUCougar 10-25-2005 07:44 AM

Funny story, Cam.

My son (who turns 4 in two weeks) has been watching some Scooby Doo lately. Some of it scares him, and he asks a lot of questions about the creatures involved in the mysteries. One plot a couple weeks ago involved a giant, squid-like blob with one eye, tentacles, and a loud slobbering roar. It caused Drew some consternation. ;)

Anyway, that was like 10 or 15 days ago, but last night as we are putting him to bed, he asks out of nowhere: "Mommy...why does the [Drew's version of the loud slobbering roar noise] only have one eye?" We both laughed.

FrogMan 10-25-2005 07:59 AM

I went with my 8yo to Wal-Mart this weekend to buy the candies. Was fun having my own personal candy specialist (not that I'm not one myself ;)) but it was even cooler to see him actually make decisions as to what we could and could not afford when I gave him a choice to make. Boy is he growing up...

He's going as Darth Vader this year, with the mask and the lightsaber but even better, when I found a toddler Darth Vader kit, we (him and me) couldn't resist and bought it for Matty :D

FM


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