Mars - TBD-Rover-Name & (Curiosity, Phoenix, Spirit, Opportunity)
Ever since growing up reading sci-fi, especially Heinlien, I have always believed there was some intelligent life out there. As the 80s, 90s have ended and 00s coming to an end, with seemingly little progress, it seems unlikely that we will find intelligent life in my lifetime.
With that said, I will be grateful for any lifeforms found elsewhere. It would be so cool if they found a bug in the ice. Regardless, the pictures will be fascinating. Here's to the Phoenix and to a safe landing. Quote:
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Here's a site with the schedule and timeline of events.
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches...-schedule.html |
When I think of alien bugs, or weird things like that, the first thing I think of is the movie "The Thing" by John Carpenter. I imagine if we brought anything back from another planet, then it was there for a reason and it shouldn't be here.
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One of the few side benefits of the Chinese emergence is it will force the US to compete more in space. Here's to another space race to wherever or whatever. |
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The first thing I think of is "The Andromeda Strain", and I think if we ever do find life elsewhere, it's going to be microbial. |
What do we mean by "intelligent life," or even "life"? Not a flip question, I'm serious. I think life on earth is defined by "having working dna", right? It doesn't seem likely that standard will apply universally, so I think intelligent life is supposed to mean sentient life, which how do you know if something is sentient or not?
One of my favorite readings is from one of Kurzweil's books (forget which one) where he puts forward a convincing proof that there are planets which right now are completely inhabited by nano-technology. |
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Good question. Obviously a space faring race is intelligent. A race similar of cro-magnon/neanderthals would be intelligent. But what is intelligence on the low end ... not sure. Happy with a bug frozen in Martian ice. |
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I agree because there's very little of it here, that's for sure and it has to be somewhere. |
Touchdown detected. Check cnn.com ... live feed.
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Not one woman in mission control that I see.
Stupid JPL. Even stupider LockMart. This stupid lander better be worth all the money they squandered making it. Edit: I take that back. There appears to be one woman. She looks like a man. I hope this mission is successful, but I have a lot of disdain for this mission in particular. It'll probably be a couple of hours before they can really say much about how the lander is, if everything's working exactly as planned. /tk |
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That is good news. I had been reading about the 7 Minutes of Terror, esp. as they had never attempted a legs landing before. |
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Well, it isn't rocket science....oh wait... |
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On the first matter, as a female engineer working in aerospace, it frustrates me that they don't have more females in "visible" positions. I know a few females who worked on Phoenix itself, and I can't imgine that there aren't females who would've been qualified to work MC for the landing. So that's one thing, it's just about visibility and how damn hard it is for women to get seen in these roles, makes it harder for them to be role models for future generations of women... As for Phoenix, I suppose I should admit that I have disdain for the spending on most NASA programs right now. NASA is so caught up in red tape and Program Managers and Scientists who don't know what they want that costs just go out of control. I love the idea of science in space, but if PM's and PI's actually thought about the plans for their missions before spending money, they might not have as many cost overruns as they do. Phoenix in particular started as a 100 million dollar mission, which I believe was mostly built. After MCO and MPL crashed, the mission was scrapped. Then somebody had the bright idea to re-invent the mission, at the cost of an extra 325 million or so, which is astouding to me given how much was there to work with. NASA has actually not come out and said exactly how much any of their science missions have cost, and I think that's a disservice to both taxpayers and the industry. It just seems that the sciene missions in general run over quite often in cost (and schedule) and it's always blamed on the subs, not on NASA itself. I think it's just a testament to the sad state of affairs for science at NASA (more red tape and politics than actual research and interest in science), and is a large part of why when I started looking for jobs, I didn't even consider a NASA job. At the moment, the only science missions I think have been worth it so far are the 2 rovers and HST. I hope I can one day include Phoenix on that list, but at the moment, I think it is only really representative of all of the downsides of science at NASA. /tk |
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Last I checked, NASA is still a federal govt agency, is it not? ;) |
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Yes, which of course means there is going to be red tape and politics. :) http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science...projects_N.htm http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...sa-costs_x.htm But when they already have such a tiny budget, and then they get these massive cost overruns....it's disheartening. They really need someone with a brain running the show. /tk |
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I once read (and can only vaguely remember) a short story by Arthur C. Clarke about a "life form" that was purely electrical. The nano example is a good one. We can view things through microscopes and telescopes, but that's still a limited range when you consider that things can be (presumably) infinitely bigger or smaller still. It's definately a point worth considering; life is as it is on Earth because that's how it evolved to the conditions on this planet through trial and chance over a great period of time. On a different life-supporting planet with different conditions chances are things are going to evolve quite differently than how they did down here. What we consider "Intelligent life" might be an Earth-centric view. A "life form" from a different planet might not resemble any kind of life form or intelligence that we can measure or even detect. I think we are very unlikely to find humanoid-like life forms in the universe simply because we are so much a product of the world we are from, and if things had not gone our ancestor's way all those many years ago, we might never have even been. |
Looking at NASA channel. Pictures coming in now. It looks good. Solar panels open, flat surface, not sure about the digging arm yet.
Pictures are in black and white? Is color added after? Don't get that. Seeing a bunch of women in blue NASA polos, so maybe not in mission control but definitely in other areas of responsibility. Okay, those folks that voted for crash and burn are officially eliminated from contention. |
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What if they eat plastic bags? |
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Then we celebrate and quickly unleash them upon our planet, before discovering that they also have an appetite for human flesh... |
Dumb question: Why couldn't they land on the ice cap?
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Just a guess, but the method of landing probably doesn't combine well with ice:
http://www.nasa.gov/externalflash/ph.../index_go.html |
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This has always interested me. The form that general, corporeal intelligent life would take. I'm not talking really exotic types, like silicon-based, or nano-machines or energy beings and the like. I am talking about carbon-based types of life like us. Yes, it seems silly to think that all intelligent, carbon-based life would be humanoid, but I also think there are basic requirements for such life that would lead to similarities. Thus, perhaps it wouldn't be so odd to run into humanoid life elsewhere, especially if Earth-like conditions (liquid-water heavy, atmosphere with elemental qualities that can be broken down into energy, temperature range and environmental conditions conducive to life) tend to lead toward that evolutionary result. |
Can I ask a question - what is life? Is it consciousness, which lacks a definition we call agree on, or the illusion of thought? If its the latter, we may have surpassed boundaries already
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Well, it sounds more like you're looking for a definition of sentience. Life itself does not seem to require a consciousness or the possibility of thought. If it's sentient life you wish to define, I would put forth some of the requirements scientists have put forth, with the qualification that we put this forth on the assumption we are sentient, and the knowledge we have no other conclusive example for definition than humanity ourselves. And that would be an awareness of self; knowledge of one's own mortality; the ability to think in abstracts; and a higher level of rationality and decision-making (among others, no doubt, such as the ability to use tools and what not). |
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Easy jump really. Plastic bags --->> Plastic sex dolls --->> Humans Star Trek geeks will be the first to die. |
Stupid webiste for this mission. I click the kids area link since my daughter is sitting next to me looking at stuff and I end up spending the next 10 minutes or so trying to confirm if there really is a cat on the mars lander because my daughter wants to know if its real. Parts of it actually made it sound real so I couldn't honestly say no until I checked it out.
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That's pretty funny. The machinery to keep the cat alive would far outweigh the rest of the machine (except perhaps any rocket engines for the landing sequence). It would cost hundreds of millions extra. But then, this is NASA we're talking about. |
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I understand what you say is true about the logistics of the whole thing, and just my gut reaction was "No way." Yet reading it with my 8 year old daughter I couldn't sit there and tell her no right away because I really don't follow what NASA is doing before they do it. So this was the first I even looked into the mission. The stupid site just kept saying the cat was there, and though most the time they did it in a funny and unrealistic way, a couple times was enough to send me on a search to confirm it. :( :cool: |
I have a question after viewing the first 5 photos. I know they had a large landing target and were aiming for the center of the ellipse. Were they able to guide to a smooth landing spot once they got closer in? I mean, it looks like it landed in a nice spot as oppose to a few feet away where they were more rocks and uneven terrain.
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It is freaking amazing what we can do! I am somewhat disappointed at the slow speed of getting more pictures but as explained, Phoenix does not have a direct link to Earth, the transmissions are relayed through the oribiting Odyssey. |
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Ya know what, is it ever? Looking at those photos gives me a strange feeling of wonder that must have been what folks felt 500 years ago when discovering new lands, even if it's just (seemingly) a barren landscape of rock and dust. Really amazing stuff. |
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Two reasons they landed where they did as opposed to further north........ 1. Solar energy. The lander needs sunlight to charge its batteries. Even at only 60 degrees north latitude, they're only going to get about 3 months of science out of the lander before the sunlight becomes very dim and the temperatures become too extreme. Any further north would have put the solar panels at an angle where they wouldn't be able to get a proper charge from the sunlight. Even now, the daytime temperature at the landing site will peak at 1 degree above zero F with the night-time temperatures plummeting to 50-60 below zero F. Eventually, the lander will freeze and it's doubtfull that it will come to life the next Martian spring. 2. Gradual ice growth. At this landing site, they are at the relative edge of the ice cap. Over the next couple of months, they'll be able to watch the progression of the ice freeze and do ongoing digs into the soil as the freezing progresses. |
Although not positively confirmed yet, it seems there is ice/water on Mars. It doesn't look good for the no-water poll group and they will be eliminated soon. Here's to organic materials being found after they heat it up to a gas.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24908444/ Quote:
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wouldn't that be awesome if a race of war-mongering evil aliens previously existed on Mars, but were defeated by some other race of aliens who trapped them under a thick sheet of ice. and then you have little Phoenix who comes along a milennia later and cracks the ice, unleashing the fury of horror that those now-freed alien race will resume bringing to our galaxy?
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^^^ This is what you get when someone has been drinking, watching Mars Attacks, and posting on this board at the same time... :D
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Well, I guess its over. Not sure what you've proven or found other than water on Mars ... no bugs or organic materials in your ovens. Thank you for your service.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/1...med/index.html Quote:
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Phoenix is probably frozen beyond recovery but Spirit and Opportunity are still chugging. Wow, 5 years ... pretty cool.
NASA's rovers mark five years on Red Planet - CNN.com Quote:
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What do you know, they found water on the moon. I guess we didn't need to go to mars after all.
NASA Discovers Large Lunar Ice Field - News Story - KTVU San Francisco Quote:
Also, Spirit and Opporunity are still around. Spirt is stuck but Opportunity is still runinng around. For Mars rover Spirit, it's do or die -- latimes.com Quote:
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Yep. Watching NASA tv right now. Very cool and interesting.
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Bummer on Spirit. I hadn't known that it had been stuck for 6 months. I was reading up on them a month or so ago and didn't see that news.
Still amazing that both are operational 6 years later after a 3 month life expectancy. Someone needs to get up there and bottle that water and sell it for $100 for 12 ounces. |
Good to hear Opportunity is still chugging. Lots of evidence about water at one time ... still hoping for announcement of one alien microbe before I die.
Mars rover finds evidence of water at new hotspot - Technology & science - Space - Space.com - msnbc.com Quote:
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The rovers have to go down as one of the most successful missions ever. Between them and the Voyager probes (that are still returning data to this day), we've learned a ton about the solar system around us. |
Curiousity is up next this weekend. I hope there will be live broadcast of this.
Mars Curiosity: the 'Super Bowl' of space quests | FLORIDA TODAY | floridatoday.com Quote:
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What is Rosie O'Donnell doing there? (I just threw up a bit in my mouth by typing that...) |
Safe journey and landing to Curiousity.
Aboard Mars Curiosity Rover, Tools to Plumb a Methane Mystery - NYTimes.com Quote:
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Until I see a spigot I'm a skeptic.
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Curiousity is up next Aug 5. Check out the trailer
Movie trailer for a Mars thriller - Cosmic Log Quote:
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