Play-By-Play In A Football Text Sim
 

I was reading the discussion in the TPF Review thread, and having a conversation with Arlie about PBP. I'm curious how important it is to people. Respond to the poll, and post your comments.

--Ben

For me, it is completely irrelevant. The only time I've looked at the FOF PBP is in the demo, since all you can really do is call plays. I don't think I've ever even looked at the PBP in TPF.

It would be nice, but I'd like about 1000 other things first. I think it's almost better when it's bare-bones, because you can use your imagination a bit more.

Very important.

I am the type that will be taking at least two months to sim one season. I get really involved in my play calling and when the play finally unfolds, I like to have theat added drama. I will be calling my own plays too. SkyDog, how does Arlie feel about it per your conversation with him?

Zero importance. I was somewhat disheartened by the review of TPF talking about the PBP w/ crowd noise and whatnot. All I could think was that if they spent a lot of time putting that together, it took away from time spent working on the stuff that actually matters.

Wow, are you serious? If I moved at that pace, I wouldn't have really gotten anywhere by the time the next version of the game came out. I probably play 1 season per session, watching only playoff games on PBP (and at a pretty rapid pace).

Well, based on the review comments, he put a good amount of time into it, so from that it is easy to deduce that he thinks it has some value. He is curious to see the results of this poll, just like me.

LOL, ya, I am serious. I don't know why but what is interesting to me is the player development and player/team stats. I go through all the stats for every player after every game. :) Sounds crazy...I know. I like to get the feeling that I know certain player by the time they are in the prime. That is why retired player stats are so important to me.

To me, it is one of those things where I could do without it, but, if done properly (whatever that means), I would most likely jump in and call plays for every game.

As it is now, the PbP in FOF makes it such that I quick sim every game. I called plays in a few games and just couldn't get into it.

I tend to prefer being a GM in sports sims rather than a coach. That tends to make PBP irrelevant most of the time. I can see the point of view of the 'coaches' though in wanting some more immersion factor during the games.

I tend to like the feel of CM3 that had limited play by play, but sometimes really allowed some tension to build through the sporadic display of key events.

Let me just say this...

as a former Madden player and FBpro player, the coaching part of the games were fun to me. Not really *seeing* the play turn out visually but *seeing* the play turn out as in terms of how well (or not) you called the play. I take great pride in my coaching abilities...... or lack thereof :)

Why???? At that pace, you're not gonna have anyone retire! ;)

With all of the stats testing and analyzing of booms/busts that I've done with FOF2004 (and I've done a LOT on both fronts), I've still played 19 seasons of a serious career in the 22 days since it has been released, and I didn't start that career until 2 or 3 days after the release. I'm averaging about a season per day, even with all of the distractions. I'd imagine that I'll average at least 2 per day during the holidays.

Im now in the FA period of 2024, so whatever that pace works out to is how quickly I've been moving. It might average to nearly 1 season per day... but I'd say I only play 2-3 sessions per week. (usually getting one nice 4+ hour session in on the weekend).

lol...

Well, in FOF4 I did manage about 1 season per 2 weeks because I didn't call my own plays.

I play the game similar to cthomer. I watch the play by play during playoff games I am involved in (but don't call plays.)

I absolutely live and die with the information I get from FOF via PBP - I guess I am just interested in the results - and that is what you get with FOF. The imagination fills in sufficiently...

It sure does, doesn't it. Madden eat your heart out. :D

Since I don't call plays and hardly ever go to the scoreboard, I have to say that PBP is of no relevance to me and the way I like to play.

i really enjoy the strategy behind playcalling, and it seems that jim has put a lot of effort into realistic play results. i want to run that te fly pattern against cover 2 and break it big. anything that enhances the playcalling-gamewatching experience i fully support. sound effects might be a bit over the top, though, and i think i'd turn the option off if i heard the same thing too many times.

what i like most is being able to draft a stud, then fully use his abilities in my coaching decisions. it helps me bond with my draftees. playcalling definitely helps my immersion more than just simming.

I watch the PBP for results, but not the drama.

Edit: Actually, more specifically - I read through the generated game logs; basically.

I voted "somewhat", while the added pbp to TPF is nice I honestly don't know how often I will use the "in game" options. I'm sure I will some but hard to know.

I'm not really that interested, I quick sim all my games.

i do the same thing. i JUST finished a season i started this summer (FOF4). finally had my amateur draft for season 2 last night.

I enjoy the PBP I've seen in TPF. I play out most of my games, and it just adds to the feel. I can see the stuff happening as I watch the PBP. It also kind of helps me with my play-calling...if a RB got stuffed in the backfield, it makes me think that the linebackers are creeping up. Time to go play-action, baby!

Anyway, I wouldn't say it's the most important thing in the game, but in an in-game environment, it's something I look forward to.

-John

Very important to me. Especially things like who blocks or gives up sacks in certain situations. I call my own plays so this helps me with my game plan.

I'm with you Maximus! I do the same thing.

I only finished 9 or 10 seasons in FOF2, and 20 seasons in TCY (so far).

I love reviewing the stats of each player after each game, and the decisions regarding who to start next game based on performance, and match-ups versus the talent on our upcoming opponent's roster. And "getting to know" the players on my roster is a huge part of the enjoyment of the game for me.

I'd love to see the PBP developed much more than it is now.

Lets see, the things I like most about text sims:

1) offseason moves, team building
2) watching a player develop over a career
3) watching a league develop over the course of many seasons

Play by play is of very little use to me.

TroyF

If the engine is solid then a really good pbp would throw up a huge difference between FOF and TPF and no matter how much people say how they hate eye candy and the like TPF would have an edge over FOF.

Of course, if the engine sucks then pbp matters for nothing.

Aside from testing out the play calling every so oftan in FOF, I've never watched the play by play.

But to be honest, I'm not sure if that is because that's not the way I play games like these, or if that is because that's not the way FOF is intended to play.

When I played FBPro, I remember just calling the plays and watching the action. But without all of the salary cap and stuff, that's how the game was intened to be played (playing it or coaching it).

So if a text sim comes out that is intended to play as a coaching game (or GM & Coach), rather than just a GM game (which is really what FOF is), I can see myself getting into the play-by-play and play calling again.

Boy, isn't this the truth. :) A strong sim engine is needed, thats for sure. Having said that, from what I have heard from about 4 different beta testers is that we are in for a real nice suprise. Without going into detail with me since they are under a NDA, they did express that TPF is a very immersive football sim.

Your second option, currently in leading the voting, was worded precisely the way I feel.

PBP would be nice. The way FOF does it now just dow interest me much. Sometimes I'll play out a game or something but I like sims usually because I dont have to play them out. If I wanted to do that I'd play some Madden.

Yeah except the PBP that was "previewed" in the review was nothing special and barely any better than FOF.

And please expand on the "huge difference" that would exist between FOF and TPF were TPF to have a "solid engine."

Or, if you don't even see PbP because you quick sim every game, then it means nothing as well.

Regardless of all of the eye candy, and even assuming TPF had a game engine on par with FOF, for me, FOF would have the edge because I can play TCY at the same time and watch future pros develop in college, then import them into the pro game. Now THAT'S an edge.

I usually "watch" my games on the scoreboard view, but at the highest speed, just following the score and the "flow" of the game. I'll slow it down if it gets close in the 4th quarter, but I will still very rarely read the PBP and instead follow along with the down and distance displays.

I enjoy watching the play by play of the games in my sims. It gives me that "immersion" factor. I hardly ever call plays (I really, really suck at play calling), but I like the aspect of watching the players I sign perform on the field. I am very intrigued about the play by play in TPF because that "suspense" in the play calling is something that does appeal to me.

Is the play calling a top five feature of FOF in terms of importance to me, no. Is it something that adds to my enjoyment of the FOF gaming experience, most definitely.

Right, what I meant was that if the pbp works out in a gradual sense where the play develops slowly (like a game in the CM series) then this is obviously very different to the FOF description of a play. To me this is important and IF (and of course it is a huge if) the rest of TPF stacks up to FOF (which of course is unlikely in its first incarnation) then someone who wants to buy a football text sim will be faced with a stark difference between the games.

A more detailed pbp will be more attractive to those who want to go slower. For players that like to sim many seasons in a short time of course pbp will be of little interest to them. But if the ingame of TPF is 'better' (for want of a better word. Maybe 'tense' would be a better word) and it still has a solid player development engine and sim engine then people can have the best of both worlds.

I think the pbp is perfect in fof as is. I never look at it during games, but I do sometimes look at the game logs after games. I would actually loose interest and probably never check them if the game log format was changed to be "more dramatic."

I gameplan each game and then watch the pbp. This will be a huge advantage to tpf for the way I like to play.

A lot of you guys play like SkyDog mentions here and if that's what you like more power to you but I couldn't even begin to enjoy the game this way. How do you get to know your players? Your team? Enjoy the moment when you do accomplish
something big?

Too me it's not how fast I can push through the seasons but it's about enjoying the ride:) SkyDog says at that pace nobody will ever retire well.... that's why it's important to some of us solo players to be able to import from the old version to the new version.

Hey, someone who feels the way I do. :)

I went with the somewhat important option. I dont care about sound or anything like that, but I do enjoy calling my own plays often. Ideally, I would call my own plays every game, but I genearlly lack the patience to do so when I'm in a rebuilding year or when I feel like I'm playing a game in which I'm greatly outclassed or when I feel like I should crush my opponent.

LOL. That makes it sound like you think Ol' SkyDog doesn't pay close attention to the details. ;)

Wow...I'm surprised that more people don't think pbp is important. To me, that is the main thing that gives a game "personality". Depending on the sport and length of schedule, I don't play out every game but I sure like to have the option to "watch" a game unfold. I doubt I would even gotten into this gaming niche if it wasn't for pbp. The first company I dealt with that had pbp was strat o matic baseball. They got to the point where you could have team specific stuff put in the game (managers, coaches, trainers). Things have come a long way since then but that really drew me to these games (as far as the computer goes...started playing sports sim board games in the 70s'). FOF is a very good game but for me, the lack of pbp is the big drawback.

I feel its important because its where you get to "know" your players. How many times have you seen a guy with somewhat bad ratings that puts up big numbers and wonder whats going on, or vice versa. I dont feel you can go by just ratings, you have to watch and see how many times a game that player makes a play. Also, the reason we all like football is because we know the players in the league. We know who we like, dislike, who is good and who isnt. This makes FA better because you are more in tune with players from around the league and know who you want to go after. Its what gives the game character, IMO.

Not at all SD:) I have tried simming on occasion in ootp and just lose all feel for my team. I don't even bother to try anymore in any of my sports games. I can't, say sim a week or even a game for that matter and just look at the stats and feel like I've done something. I have to see the game to have fun. Trying to read the game log after won't do it either, I just have to have it in real time to be able to enjoy. Hell I played 4 seasons of ootp this year one game at a time:D

It is an interesting thread you startd here, hopefully we can all learn something.

PbP, eeehhh!
 

I voted the middle ground... if done "right" somebody is sure to hate it! I like the PbP feature if it includes color commentary (background, history etc.), other than that it can be...

" R. Williams takes the handoff, going off the right guard, hit by D. Walker at the line of scrimmage Gains 1 yd. "

I like the way CM does it...suspensful...

SkyDog, kodos to you for this poll. It was needed. :)

Same here. I feel the same way about Game Plans but I'm sure if you would create a poll, I would be vastly outnumbered, which is fine. ;)

I love CM's PbP. That being said, I also think it works for that sport. Soccer is a sequential game, there is a move, counter move, move... To me, football isn't that kind of game. Its something that happens in an instance and then is gone. I just don't feel like a sequential type of PbP (i.e. line by line) is really necessary in a football game.

When I call plays, I actually find it easier just to see if I got a first down, or 3 yards or whatever, to me it doesn't really build the drama that is inherent in a continuous sport like soccer.

Thats the problem I have with OOTP's PbP. When it jumps in for a no-hitter, its tedious to wait for the line-by-line PbP. Baseball just seems to work better when it isn't set up like that... it doesn't feel like radio PbP, it feels like tape delay PbP.

Same here.