OT: "Miracle"
 

I don't know if this has been brought up yet but who has seen it and what are the thoughts? I saw it today and it is pretty darn good. I wonder how anybody could mess that story up though!

I am also looking for some good links to info on the real game (ie: photos, player profiles, stories, accounts...etc.) If anybody could help me out with that it would be more than greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

This is a great documentry on it. I'm looking forward to seeing the movie, though chances are I won't like it as much as watching this.

If that is the documentary that was on cable TV a number of times, it is excellent.

I just saw Miracle on Sunday. Great, great movie. If you're a hockey fan, it's a must see. If you're not, you'll either a) enjoy a great feel-good story, or b) become a hockey nut like the rest of us. :)

Just a lot of fun. You can quibble about cliches, but from what I recall, that whole stroy was like a movie cliche come to life. You know, the kind of stuff that only happens in movies--until it actually happens in real life. ;)

I thought Kurt Russell did a really good job with the Herb Broosk role. He even looked like him a little.

CR

I don't know if it is in their, but I am sure it is. The whole, "If you lose this game, you will take it to your fucking grave.... YOUR FUCKING GRAVES....."

The GM of the company I work for played hockey for the Fighting Souix and won a championship in 87. He got to meet Herb Brooks after he was drafted by the Chicago Blackhawks...ahead of Brett Hull, that worked out well... ;) But Herb told him about the 1960 team that won the gold medal. He was the last one cut from the squad and he was watching the Gold Medal game with his dad and after they won his dad turned and looked at him and said "Well, looks like they cut the right person"

Burn.

Don't know if that's true or not, but either way, "fucking graves" definitely did not make the cut on a Disney movie.

I've seen it twice, and really, really enjoyed it. We took our high school girls' basketball team to see it in preparation for our district playoff game tomorrow -- in which we are huge underdogs. They bought into it, which was nice... then they asked of the head coach, who is 44, "So, were you alive back then?"

I remember watching the game on TV as a kid. I was 9 years old I think.

I knew we hated the Soviets. I knew the Soviets were good. I knew they were machines. But I also knew that we could beat them, and that's why I was watching the game. I was in Mississippi and I don't think I even knew what Ice Hockey was.

But I remember while the game was winding down and those USA hockey players laying their bodies out in front of every shot or attempt shot to try and help out the goalie in hanging on. It was definately the most suspensful thing I had ever seen up till that point. And my family and I all cheered and hugged when the clock ticked down to ZERO.

And when we went to see it Saturday, my 8 year son was clapping after every goal the USA made. It was just plain cool.

The "fucking graves" quote was from the Finland game when they went into the third down a goal. It definately happened, but I figured they would tone it down a little. The story goes is that the guys were kind of down and Herb walked into the locker room, said that, turned to walk out, then turned back said "YOUR FUCKING GRAVES" and walked out. I guess it worked.

The infamous "Fucking graves" didn't make it into the movie as the Soviet game was the focus. They just mention the Finland game and the fact that they came back. I don't want to give too much away but gosh darn that pumps you up.

I've seen it twice and after a movie like that you feel like you should go do something productive. Ironically, both times I went home and sat on my ass and watched TV. :)

Here's a question about the 1980 upset from someone who's neither old enough to remember it, or American enough to really be into it.

For lack of a better way of putting it... did anybody actually care about the 1980 Olympic hockey tournament before the Miracle? Like, were Americans walking around the office that day talking about the game? Did they go to bed the night before thinking about it, dreaming of a win? Or did it only become a big deal when they won?

I know the game was played in the afternoon and tape delayed to that evening, but I guess that wasn't unusual for the time. Obviously the whole cold war and upset angles are what really drive the story, but was there any hype leading into it? If the Russians had won, would anyone even remember the game? Would people look back and shake their heads at the one that got away, or is this one of those cases (like the women's world cup) where an event only exists when the Americans win?

Hm, re-reading that, it sounds more cranky than it was intended. I'm not trying to poop on a great sports moment, I'm just curious as to what the mood in the US was like about the game before it was played.

Im not too sure about before the tournament started but when the matchup was set I am positive it was a HUGE deal for many Americans. It was "more than a hockey game to a lot of people." In the movie, as they walk out onto the ice there were hundreds of telegrams sent to the team and players telling them how proud they are and good luck. One lady sent one that simply said, "Beat those commie bastards!"

I mean the tickets were going for over 3 times the face value outside the gates.

It wasn't a really huge deal before the tournament started. There was a lot of noise about how the team had won the last time the olympics were in lake placid, but no one really gave them much of a chance. Then they started winning. For me, a freshman in highschool, the story was compelling enough that I watched at least the last three games. We weren't favored in any of them. Even with all the heart the team had shown before that final game, I still didn't think we had a chance against the Russians. I mean it seemed to be a simple fact that the Russian team was possibly the best to ever play the game. The U.S. had no chance. I don't really remember if I cried when they won, but I can't help but cry now when I think back to it. Eruzione's arms raised in victory, Jim Craig wrapped in the flag looking for his father, that call by Al Michaels, these images are seared into my mind. I haven't seen the movie yet. I am actually leary of seeing it in a theatre, because I know I won't hold it together at all.

i saw it over the weekend i didn't think it was a "great" movie but i thought it was pretty good

My brother and i grew up playing ice hockey. It was a huge deal in my house although i can't speak for the whole country.

They did not pay Kurt Russell enough to dress like that :)

Actually, it was a bigger deal back in 1980 than it is for this movie. This is just a movie with some hype. That was USA vs. USSR, in the middle of the cold war, when Presidents and Premiers only spoke when it was neccessary to avert a world war.

We simply cannot be revisionists when understating it's importance then on the American soul.

You had to have been there at the time (I was in college). It was huge.

But I am curious as to why they felt they had to make another movie (there was one in 1981) about it now?

I was thinking the exact same thing. Maybe there was some super secret marketing research that came up with Summer Olympic year + fading NHL interest = new hockey olympic movie...

That was my conclusion at first but this is not a Winter Olympics year. Somehow the NHL PR folks have to be involved, I think.

I said Summer Olympics in jest...

I haven't seen it, but I'll probably see it pretty soon... I've heard good things

So, to add gasoline to the fire:

Is this the greatest sporting moment ever?

Nope...

Sorry, I still haven't recovered from the 1980 USSR team being called the greatest hockey team ever.

(Because we all know, of course, that it was really the '92/'93 Leafs.)

I agree with the Leafs team. :D Second greatest team was the Jets team with Selanne, Zhamnov, and Tkachuk.

You mean the one that didn't even get to the Cup finals against a one-dimensional Kings club (that one dimension being an older Gretzky)? :)

CR

Maybe it'll be on the extended version DVD. Dubbed on TBS' version as "you friggin knaves."

How could anybody say this isnt the greatest sports moment of all time!? It has to be!

I think people are really torn between the 1980 USA victory and the 2004 NBA All-Rookie Game...

Thanks for saying that. I really wondered if I was the only one who was hesitating about going to the movie because of that.

So far, I don't think I've been able to get through the trailer without tearing up, so I don't think I've got much hope of getting through the actual movie without crying. I'm okay with crying actually, it's breaking down & sobbing that worries me.

To be fair, that's one dimension just about every hockey club would love to have (except for the teams that had a younger Gretzky ;)). He was just amazing during those playoffs.

I don't think there is a "greatest sport moment of all time." They depend on the actual people watching it as well. Maybe it's the greatest American sport moment of all time... but not more than that. A Canadian might think the 1972 World Cup goal by Henderson was the greatest, and a Brazillian might think that a goal by Pele was the greatest.

I think it has to stack up there with the greatest sports moments of all time. Each sport has it's pinacle, it's defining moment. When you figure in the bunch of young nobody underdogs and the heavilly favored opponent, then throw in all of the cold war rhetoric and sentiment. It would take a pretty special event to equal "The Miracle on Ice".

If it is not the greastest sporting moment, there are few that measure up to it IMHO.

Because we're fighting a war, and feel good films about the USA taking on a foreign enemy and winning sell especially well during such times. Gets people all fired up about being patriotic, even if it is only over sports.

For those of you who don't think it's the greatest sport moment (at least, American sport moment), what would be ranked ahead of it?

I'm not American, but I would think Jesse Owens in the 1936 Olympics would have to rank right up there.

Okay, how about a re-qualification.

The greatest sporting moment that you can remember.

1. 1980 USA vs. Russia victory
2. Francisco Cabrera's single to propel the Atlanta Braves into the World Series
3. Joe Carter's homerun off of Mitch "Wildthing" Williams to win the Series in 6.
4. Doug Flutie's hailmary

But as far as epic proportions, I can't think of anything that comes close.

dola,

And I know that would in turn, rule out half of this forum for not even having a chance to remember it.

To add to your list, Dutch, the hit which won the World Series for the D-Backs in Game 7 against the hated Yanks ;).

And McGwire's 61st HR was a great moment as well.

You know eventhough Carter's homerun ended the series, I can't help but hold Kirk Gibson's shot against Eckersley in higher esteem. No doubt though, that neither of these hold a candle to "The Miracle".

It was a different, different era. You'd really have to have been born in the 60's or earlier to really catch the whole feel of it.

I've been a hockey fan since I was five, so I watched every game of the 1980 Olympic Hockey Tournament I could. The team wasn't even expected to grab a medal. The Sweden game, the first one, was pretty much ignored. "Miracle" the movie, shows that game being played before the packed house, but frankly, it was an ill attended game (maybe 3-4000 in what was about a 12,000 seat arena). The Swedes were a great team that year. They were anchored by future Vezina trophy winner (and car crash fatality, unfortunately) Pelle Lindbergh, and put a lot of talent in front of him, NHL caliber talent. They were down 2-1 late, pulled the goalie, and tied it.

The best way to describe it from there was that it just kind of snowballed and became big. The real eye opener, in my mind that year, was the US blowout of Czechoslovakia. The Czechs won the silver in '68 & '76, and won the bronze in '72. To beat the Czechs, to actually spank them (final was 5-2, IIRC), was a big, big deal in hockey circles. Then they edged past a German team that played them well. By the time they got to the medal round, against the Soviets, it was the talked about thing here. I was 15, about to turn 16 at the time of the games, and I can remember being in class in high school the afternoon prior to that game. Normally, my love of ice hockey (in Phoenix, AZ, remember) labeled me as a bit of a nut, but that day I was the center of attention. I know for a fact that a lot of people that probably haven't seen a full hockey game before or since watched the USSR-USA game. Heck there was quite a buzz in 2002 when the US hooked up with Russia in Salt Lake.

Remember also that this was the era of gas lines, double digit inflation, the Iran hostage crisis, and it was maybe two months after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The word malaise probably best described the mood of the country. I think we'd have gotten fired up about a tiddly winks team if it meant we could tweak the nose of the Soviets.

I can't speak for what happened elsewhere, but remember, this was an era before ESPN, before FoxSports, before regional cable networks. Hell, the NHL didn't even have a national television contract in 1980 in the US. If you didn't happen to live in an NHL city (or a city that had an IHL, CHL, or AHL team) you didn't see hockey in 1980 in the United States. They didn't even show highlights in most parts of the country until teams were deep in the playoffs. The day the Islanders won the first of their 4 early 80's Stanley Cups in June 1980 (Gotta love the fact that Ken Morrow won an Olympic Gold Medal and a Stanley Cup within 4 months), the story wound up on about page 6, after the greyhound racing results here in the paper.

That day, the local ABC affiliate here simply avoided running the scores before the game. That would never happen these days. Also, it was only tape delayed by something like 3-4 hours, so there wasn't a lot of time for word of mouth. The one thing that sticks out most in my mind about any hint at the outcome of the game was Jim McKay kicking off the evening coverage of the USA-USSR game with the words "you don't want to miss this" or something to that effect. The way they slapped around the Czechs, I sensed they had a chance, but to win? You would have had to have been blindly optimistic.

Truth be told, if there was a miracle, it had nothing to do with the US team. It had to do with the bizarre decision (accurately recreated in the movie, BTW) to pull Vladislav Tretiak after giving up the soft goal at the end of the first period.

Throughout the 1970's, most folks thought the two best goalies in the world were the Canadiens' Ken Dryden and Vladislav Tretiak. There were some other great ones then, but it was widely acknowledged that these two were the best. It depended on who you asked as to which one was better, but either one would have been a great base to build a Cup Winner around. Tretiak not being there in the second and third periods probably made things a bit easier for the US. Also, the Soviets really didn't know how to come back. The failure to pull their own goaltender was a classic example, but not the only, example of this.

[quote=Glengoyne]
You know, I have to agree with that one...that was a cool homerun with him injured to add to the drama.

Actually, the 1960 Olympic Games were in Squaw Valley, California. Dave Christian, one of the more notable wingers on the 1980 team had a father and an uncle on the 1960 team. Herb Brooks, as the story points out was the last player cut from the 1960 team, though he played on the '64 & '68 teams.


Actually, the movie is pretty true to the basic story. You'd be surprised. I was.

Hmm. The '92-'93 Canadiens and Kings would like to talk to you about that.

Another side note here...

Where were the Canadiens when all this was going on? They are never mentioned at all in any recollection of the olympics. Who was playing for them? Were they any good?

Like the US, they put together a team of minor leaguers, college and amateur kids. Unlike the US, they were unfortunate enough to wind up in the same pool with the Soviets and Finns. The Soviets and Finns both beat them, IIRC, and the team didn't make it out of the preliminary round.

My personal big moments:

1. 1980 US Olympic Hockey Team.
2. Luis Gonzales's bloop single over the head of Derek Jeter off the cutter of Mariano Rivera to win the 2001 World Series.
3. Arizona State's 22-15 win in the 1987 Rose Bowl.
4. Arizona State's 19-0 shutout of Nebraska in 1996.
5. Game 5 of the 1976 NBA Finals, Phoenix vs. Boston, a triple OT loss regarded as one of the best games in NBA History.

Hm. They played in the consolation round that year, right? I seem to remember that series.

Great moments from a Canadian perspective:

- Donovan Bailey wins the 100 meter gold in Atlanta. Then, after a week of hearing about how it was a fluke, etc., leads the Canadian men's team to a stunning upset of the Americans in the relay (the first time the Americans had lost in the relay in something like five years)

- The 1972 Summit Series, Gretzky to Lemieux in 1987 to beat the Russians, and the 2002 Olympic win (helped along by Bob Cole -- "Je-yoe Sakic! Surely that's got to be it!")

- Joe Carter's HR, as well as the under-rated Robbie Alomar HR off a trash-talking Dennis Eckersley in the 1992 ALCS

- Mike Weir wins the Masters

Great moments that didn't really stand up over time

- Jacques Villeneuve dominates a racing season (but it turns out he just had the best car, and plenty of Canadians have done well in racing since)

- Ben Johnson (obviously)

- Mark McGwire's 62nd HR (I remember having goosebumps for that... man, it seems like it was 50 years ago)

- Lennox Lewis (ever since he started pretending not to be Canadian)

- The Canadian women's hockey gold medal (it was nice, but I can't take a sport seriously if it only has two teams)

To add to that. The Soviet coach (whatever his name was, it's not important enough to remember) didn't know what to do at the end of the game when he should've pulled his goalie. They were never in that situation before. Unreal.

The man's brain is fried by the lack of success of the Maple Leafs. Poor guy ;).

In no particular order, I think these are some of the greatest moments ever:

- Jesse Owens' 4 gold medals at the 1936 Munich Olympics
- Mark Spitz's 7 gold medals/7 world records at the 1972 Munich Olympics
- Roger Bannister breaking the 4 minute mile
- the 1980 Miracle on Ice

Come to think of it, a truly "greatest" moment has to have an international dimension, I think. There have been great moments in the NFL, MLB and NHL but the impact of those moments would be less than those listed above.

Personal Big Moments:
1. Calgary Flames winning the 1989 Stanley Cup, clinching it in the Montreal Forum
2. Gretsky hooking up with Lemieux to score the winning goal in Rendezvous '87
3. Canada winning the Salt Lake City hockey golds
4. Joe Carter's homerun off of Mitch Williams to win the World Series
5. Doug Flutie leading the Calgary Stampeders to their first Grey Cup in 21 years
6. Gretsky's retirement in Edmonton, retiring with 2857 points, with a then second place Howe at only 1,850, despite playing 280 fewer games
7. Joe Montana hooking up with John Taylor for a TD, leading the 49ers to victory in SuperBowl XXIII, with 1:30 on the clock and 97 yards to go

I really don't know where the 1972 Summit Series ranks. Outside of Canada and the Soviet Union, I don't know if it made much of an impact. Plus, we were supposed to win all 8 games with our NHL stars, unlike the college kids of the Miracle team. The cold-war feeling was definitely there, especially with having to play the final four games in Moscow and the team having to deal with 2:00 a.m. phone calls, etc., etc. It's been ranked at the greatest sporting event in Canadian history and rightfully so, but I don't know if it's anything more than that.

It occurs to me that the 1996 World Cup of Hockey win over Canada was pretty big, especially, the way the Canadians just collapsed, giving up three goals in like three minutes late in the 3rd.