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-   -   Who is the NL Cy Young? (https://forums.operationsports.com/fofc//showthread.php?t=31025)

Bomber 09-30-2004 09:15 AM
Who is the NL Cy Young?
 
I'm betting Clemens runs away with it, even though Johnson has had a better season. When will people learn that wins aren't the proper stat to be comparing pitchers with?

Cuckoo 09-30-2004 09:24 AM
I think the sentimental vote alone will carry Clemens to the win, although you're right that Johnson has better stats. His WHIP is incredible.

Crapshoot 09-30-2004 09:26 AM
Johnson should be in a canter- will be is a different story.

rkmsuf 09-30-2004 09:26 AM


Wow, so it is.

Bomber 09-30-2004 09:27 AM
That's not to say Clemens hasn't been very very good. He's had an outstanding season and with his wins/playing for a contender, will easily win the award I think, but RJ is slightly better in ever stat but W/Ls.

hhiipp 09-30-2004 09:30 AM
Simply incredible!

JeeberD 09-30-2004 12:02 PM
This Astros fan endorses Roy Oswalt...

samifan24 09-30-2004 12:13 PM
Johnson has simply been the most dominant pitcher in the National League this season. Look beyond wins.

Crapshoot 09-30-2004 12:26 PM
I cant believe the support Clemens is getting- its supposed to be the best pitcher in the league.

Huckleberry 09-30-2004 01:00 PM
The question was "Who is the NL Cy Young Winner?"

The probable correct answer to that question is Roger Clemens. In another thread, for example, the question is "Who is the NL MVP?" which asks me to declare who the most valuable player in the National League is.

Crapshoot 09-30-2004 01:03 PM
correct- but i believe its asking you make an assesment of who the Cy Young winner should be (based on the recent trend), not who you think it will be. But that's semantics- I think Clemens will win it as well- I just think that he shouldnt.

rkmsuf 09-30-2004 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry
The question was "Who is the NL Cy Young Winner?"

The probable correct answer to that question is Roger Clemens. In another thread, for example, the question is "Who is the NL MVP?" which asks me to declare who the most valuable player in the National League is.

Hey, it's Semantic Man!

Huckleberry 09-30-2004 01:40 PM
You got that right.

Blackadar 09-30-2004 02:01 PM
Tough call.

Johnson edges out Clemens in every category but wins. But then again, Clemens really helped carry Houston most of the year. Pavano has had a great year too.

I'd almost be tempted to give it to Armando Benitez and his 1.18 ERA.

Probably the Rocket because of the more wins and better team.

John Galt 09-30-2004 02:03 PM
I agree that Benitez should at least be listed. If people gave it to Gagne last year, there is a better argument for Benitez this year (especially due to the competition). I thought Schmidt should have won last year, so I went with Johnson this year.

Crapshoot 09-30-2004 02:06 PM
roffle- Wins are a horrible measure of a pitcher's performance.

Code:
Player        Team  POS    Bat  Pitch Field  ExpWS    WSP  WSAA Total
R Johnson      ARI    P    -2.3  25.2  0.0    11  1.026    12    23
R Clemens      HOU    P    -0.8  20.1  0.0    10  1.002    10    19
C Zambrano    CHC    P    -1.4  20.0  0.0      9  1.002      9    19
C Pavano      FLO    P    -0.8  18.6  0.0    10  .904      8    18
J Schmidt      SFG    P    -1.6  19.5  0.0    10  .877      8    18
B Sheets      MIL    P    -2.2  20.6  0.0    11  .856      8    18


Code:
NAME                TEAM LG  G  GS    IP  H/9 BB/9 SO/9 HR/9 BABIP  ERA    RA PK_RA RA+    RP  VORP
Randy Johnson        ARI NL  34  34 237.7  6.3  1.7 10.7  0.6 0.266  2.65  3.11  2.85 164  48.9  70.6
Carlos Zambrano      CHN NL  30  30 204.0  7.3  3.5  8.1  0.6 0.275  2.60  3.00  3.03 155  37.8  63.0
Carl Pavano          FLO NL  31  31 222.3  8.6  2.0  5.6  0.6 0.287  3.00  3.24  3.45 136  31.0  62.8
Ben Sheets          MIL NL  33  33 228.0  7.6  1.2 10.0  1.0 0.290  2.80  3.32  3.25 144  36.7  62.4
Roger Clemens        HOU NL  33  33 214.3  7.1  3.3  9.2  0.6 0.283  2.98  3.19  3.10 151  38.1  61.6
How Clemens wins that so easily over Schmidt, zAmbrano, Pavano, I;ll never understand- and then there's Johnson, who's been the best by far.

k0ruptr 09-30-2004 02:27 PM
Jake Peavy.

Bomber 09-30-2004 02:29 PM
I voted for Clemens because I think he's going to win. Recent history and what I've been hearing from the media says that Johnson's got no chance. Just like the MVP hardly ever goes to the Most Valuable Player, the Cy Young doesn't necessarily go to the best pitcher, just the one with the best glamour stats (ERA and Wins mainly, plus he's the best pitcher of his generation). Awards aren't given out the way they should, you've got to factor that into the discussion.

Bomber 09-30-2004 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt
I agree that Benitez should at least be listed. If people gave it to Gagne last year, there is a better argument for Benitez this year (especially due to the competition). I thought Schmidt should have won last year, so I went with Johnson this year.

With the year Clemens and the other starters have had I don't think there is any question a closer won't be in the running this year. That's why Benitez isn't on the list.

John Galt 09-30-2004 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber
With the year Clemens and the other starters have had I don't think there is any question a closer won't be in the running this year. That's why Benitez isn't on the list.

Benitez 2004: 68.2 IP 46 SV 61 K 1.18 ERA 0.79 WHIP
Gagne 2003: 82.1 IP 55 SV 113 K 1.20 ERA 0.69 WHIP

Clemens 2004: 214.1 IP 18 W 218 K 2.98 ERA 1.16 WHIP
Schmidt 2003: 207.2 IP 17 W 208 K 2.34 ERA 0.95 WHIP

If Gagne beats Schmidt in 2003, I have to think Benitez should at least be in the running with Clemens. I doubt Benitez will get many votes, but I think voters are being hypocritical if they voted for Gagne and don't give Benitez similar consideration.

Bomber 09-30-2004 03:10 PM
Gagne had his saves streak going. That played a huge role in his winning the award. I also didn't realize Schmidt's stats were that good a year ago. Kind of shocking he didn't win with numbers like that.

John Galt 09-30-2004 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber
Gagne had his saves streak going. That played a huge role in his winning the award. I also didn't realize Schmidt's stats were that good a year ago. Kind of shocking he didn't win with numbers like that.

I know the streak mattered to voters, but I never understood why. He had 3 loses that year - it wasn't like he never lost his team a game. I just think it is a double standard with Benitez this year.

sterlingice 09-30-2004 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt
Benitez 2004: 68.2 IP 46 SV 61 K 1.18 ERA 0.79 WHIP
Gagne 2003: 82.1 IP 55 SV 113 K 1.20 ERA 0.69 WHIP

Clemens 2004: 214.1 IP 18 W 218 K 2.98 ERA 1.16 WHIP
Schmidt 2003: 207.2 IP 17 W 208 K 2.34 ERA 0.95 WHIP

If Gagne beats Schmidt in 2003, I have to think Benitez should at least be in the running with Clemens. I doubt Benitez will get many votes, but I think voters are being hypocritical if they voted for Gagne and don't give Benitez similar consideration.

10 less saves with an additional 4 blown saves and 50 K is a big deal for closers. Particularly with Gagne's amazing 0 blown saves last year.

SI

dixieflatline 09-30-2004 04:39 PM
If you are going to add Johnson to the list you should also include Ben Sheets. 2.80 ERA with 253 K's and 31 BB in 228 innings. Sure he only has 11 wins but look at his team. I'm not saying he is the winner but he should be in the discussion.

Suicane75 09-30-2004 05:43 PM
I would vote for Ben Sheets, so I'm abstaining from voting.

Crapshoot 09-30-2004 05:46 PM
I really wish this was a public poll- I'd be curious who voted for Clemens (or Beltre in the others, or Schilling )... :D

tucker342 09-30-2004 08:34 PM
Johnson should win, even though he won't...


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