PING : FOFC Keeper LEague
 

Hi all!
The playoff matchups for the keeper are set. Please check the schedule, as everyone is playing.

Superbowl:
Galloping Ghosts (Div Win)
vs.
Lathum's Brew Crew (Wildcard)

DVH's Eruption (Div Win)
vs.
Vic's Heroes

Pride Bowl:

The Premature Ghost of Beno Cook
vs.
Beat This

The Original Trilogy
vs.
Siddiqui Sillymen

Rookie Bowl:

Road Kill Cafe
vs
All On Black

Callous Dowboys
vs.
South Side Roughnecks

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If you have any questions about the matchups, please refer to the notes below, but please speak up now if you see a problem with the schedule!

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Playoffs
There are 3 brackets of Playoffs that will be used to determine Draft order selection for the next year:

Superbowl: Top team from each division (determined by record/head to head/division record/point total) and (1) Wild Card team determined by Total points (then head to head/record). – None of these teams are eligible for the other brackets.
The Team with the best record (head to head/point total) will play the Wild Card team in the 1st round. The winners of the 1st round play for the Iberbowl; the losers play for the 9th pick order of the draft, the loser of that game gets the 10th pick order. The loser of the Iberbowl gets the 11th pick order, while the IberBowl champion gets the championship and the 12th pick order of the next year’s draft.

RookieBowl: Bottom team from each division (determined by record/head to head/ division record/point total) and (1) Kill Card team determined by Total points (then head to head/record). – The team with the worst record (head to head/point total) will play the Kill Card team in the 1st round. The Winners of the 1st round will play each other in the 2nd round to determine the winner of the RookieBowl– the Winner will have the 1st draft pick order, while the loser will receive the 2nd draft pick order. The Losers in the 1st round will play each other in the 2nd round, the winner will get the 3rd draft pick order, while the loser will get the 4th draft pick order for next years draft.

PrideBowl: The Final 4 teams will play for the PrideBowl championship (the 5th draft pick order). The teams will be matched up by having the team with the best record (head to head/point total) play the team with the worst record. The Winners of the 1st round will play each other in the 2nd round to determine the winner of the PrideBowl– the Winner will have the 5th draft pick order, while the loser will receive the 6th draft pick order. The Losers in the 1st round will play each other in the 2nd round, the winner will get the 7th draft pick order, while the loser will get the 8th draft pick order for next years draft.

Just need to make sure I understand:

So if I lose my game, and lose the second playoff game.. I'd get the 10th pick while the team I lose to 2nd gets 9th pick? So winning the second game would get me a better pick than losing?

Yes, winning the 2nd game will get you a pick one slot better than the loser of the 2nd game.

GO ME! Even though I've sucked in the second half of the year. Damn Aaron Brooks!

Btw, LIKE the format for draft picks :D. Definetly gives everyone an incentive and prevents tanking :D.

Nods. Very nice format. Now, I have reason to focus hard for these upcoming weeks besides a little shred of pride ;)

Man, I'm going to have a HELL of a time deciding who to keep... that's not going to be fun decision!

will we be allowed to make any trades before we have to announce our keepers? Say, I have two decent QB's, and no WR's worth keeping.... could I pull a trade after the playoffs?

My team has been ENFUEGO of late. They were pathetic during the first 9 weeks. Shameful. I actually felt shame. Then they all of a sudden became the Carolina Panthers of our league, winning 5 in a row and ending a solid 7-7. I guess this makes me John Fox. I am a kick ass coach.

The Original Trilogy is going to pound the Squiddy men, Vader-style. "I find your lack of faith disturbing..."

I wonder why I lobbied for the darn keeper rules earlier this year...I have 3 RB's I'd like to keep and no QB's / WR's. :)

All trades in the offseason are considered gentleman's agreements, and will not be processed until the next season starts. Which means...yes.

Trade Rule
A trade may be proposed by two or more teams during the time from of after the teams drop date, until the Saturday prior to Thanksgiving. The trade is placed before the league for denial. The time frame for league review is: Prior to the draft – Two Weeks or time of the 1st draft selection (whichever is 1st); after draft – 2 Days (note: no trade can be performed DURING the draft). If 7 or more teams veto the trade, the trade proposal is cancelled. Any other trade proposal cannot be identical to a vetoed trade unless 1 full week has passed since its initial proposal.

Draft positions held by the team are valid ‘players’ for trade, but only for time after the teams drop date AND prior to the Draft for that year. ONLY PLAYERS ON ROSTERS AND DRAFT POSITIONS ARE LEGAL FOR TRADES! NO EXCEPTIONS!!

Any trades made after the Saturday before Thanksgiving AND prior to the teams drop date the next year are not ‘valid’ (they are gentlemen’s agreements) – after each team has submitted their keep list, All team owners must inform and confirm with the commissioner of their trade proposal.

Trade approval is handled: Prior to draft (by e-mail or in person); after draft (by the web site).

Originally Posted by TheLionKing
will we be allowed to make any trades before we have to announce our keepers? Say, I have two decent QB's, and no WR's worth keeping.... could I pull a trade after the playoffs?


Wait, when about would you say the dates are for 1. First day of processing trades 2. Keeper announcement must be made. I wasn't aware this would be possible (but based on my above comments you can tell I'm pretty happy about it :) ) and I was just curious how much time there would be to actually complete the trades before we sent in our list of keepers.

Sorry, JAG, the post went above yours...

Anyway, we'll have to decide on the date that we submit our keeper lists, but the trades don't go into effect until AFTER this date. I hope this makes sense.

I thought there was a rule about keeping only one player in a position?

I don't think I can find three players in three positions I want to keep. :)

Sorry, trying to understand but I'm still confused...

As I understood from what we discussed last year, each team can keep up to three players from last year's roster:

1 QB
1 RB
1 WR/TE

If trades don't go into effect until after keepers are declared, how is it that TheLionKing could peddle an extra QB or I could trade one of my extra RB's? I would've thought they would no longer be 'on the team' after keepers are declared.

They would have to trade the player they are keeping.
So, say you have McNabb and Leftwich.
You want Tomlinson.
Your trading partner wants McNabb.
You would have to be sure to keep McNabb, and your partner would need to keep Tomlinson.
After the keeper lists are submitted, the trade would take affect. You kept the correct number of players according to the keeper rules, but you will be without a QB and your partner would be without a RB before the draft.

Make sense?

This makes sense. The other stuff was too long and confusing...

Yeah, Frankly, I could leave my QBs. Maybe you could keep your Defense instead of a skill position (we could do that, can't we?) ;).

Not really. :) Are you basically saying you can trade keepers to get an extra player at a certain position? Let me boil my main question down to a yes-no question and you can tell me yes or no:

Can I keep 3 RB's and no WR's / QB's as long as I have trades set up to deal the extra two RB's for a WR and a QB?

Yes. But let me clarify.
On "Drop Day" everyone will have a roster with one QB, one RB, and one WR. (unless they don't want any)

Once these rosters are set (which they are the moment I email the rosters out to everyone), you can trade to your hearts content.

Very interesting..

If you keep 2 RBs, you better have deals in place to deal one for a QB or WR ;).

I'm confused now... so we can keep one of each position, and THEN trade? So we can't really keep 3 QBs and then trade 2 for a RB and WR...

I think he means that we can have 'deals in place'. So that when we decide who to keep, the trades immediately fall into place. As long as by that time you got 1 QB, 1 RB, and 1 WR, you'll be good.

I'm making this worse.

Here is the sequence.

There is no "official" trading until after drop day.
On drop day, you will have a roster of 1QB, 1RB, 1WR.
Immediately after the rosters are published on drop day, you can trade players.
The deals can be agreed to beforehand - hence the "gentleman's agreement" note. But they aren't official until after the initial keeper lists are published.

Does that help?

Note that once a trade is proposed, and accepted by both parties, it will be subject to league review just like every other trade.

If I win this league.. It'll be because of Peyton Manning, Curtis Martin and Antonio Gates.

I have started as my second RB this year ..

Eddie George, Jonathan Wells, Corey Schlesinger, Najah Davenport.

I have 10 wins. It's unreal lol.

So at the END of drop day we have to have 1QB, 1RB, and 1WR. As long as that is the roster at the end of the day, we can do all the trading we want on drop day, right?

So long as that is the roster until I send out the keeper lists. Then all trades can be submitted "officially".

Ok, so as long as you have deals set up in advance, you can 'keep' 3 RBs, 2 of which will be dealt immediately for a QB and WR? Right?

For example, I have Willis McGahee, Rudi Johnson, and Chris Brown. I can 'keep' all three as long as I have deals in place dealing Johnson for a QB and Brown for a WR, right? (not that I will, mind... ;))

No, you can't keep 3 RB's. You can only select 1 RB as a keeper.

I would like to see the trade rule changed for the following year....

also

did we make it through the year with full participation or did we lose anyone along the way?

Yeah, but JAG said:


And the Commish said "Yes".

Ahh, but he also said this at a later point:

Note, that I added bold for emphasis. There is no trading before drop day. At the end of drop day, you can only have a roster of 1QB, 1RB, and 1WR (unless you choose to not keep any players at a position.)

It seems to me very clear that any one team can only keep 1QB, 1RB, and 1WR, but if they want to trade one of those keepers AFTER the drop day, they could conceivably trade their keeper QB and their keeper WR to two other teams for their keeper RB's. However, a team can't keep 3 RB's from their own roster.

Yes, but you can have trades that done in all but name. I'd imagine they would automatically occur on the drop day in order to be consistent with what sachmo has said earlier in this thread.


And the response to JAG's question on whether he could only keep 3 RBs as long as he had trades to get a WR and QB with the 2 extra RBs being a yes indicates that it can be done. Unless the commish got confused by the question.

From the responses by sachmo, it seems that you can keep 3 RBs and have deals in place to get 1 QB and 1 WR out of 2 of those RBs. That is what JAG's question asked and it was responded with a yes.

I think he was confused by the question, or rather his answer was confusing. I think he was saying yes to the first part of Jag's question which was "Are you basically saying you can trade keepers to get an extra player at a certain position?"

I think that is what he said yes to.

Also, look at an earlier example in the thread:

"They would have to trade the player they are keeping.
So, say you have McNabb and Leftwich.
You want Tomlinson.
Your trading partner wants McNabb.
You would have to be sure to keep McNabb, and your partner would need to keep Tomlinson.
After the keeper lists are submitted, the trade would take affect. You kept the correct number of players according to the keeper rules, but you will be without a QB and your partner would be without a RB before the draft.

Make sense?"

In this example, he doesn't say the person can keep Leftwich and McNabb. He says that the person would have to keep McNabb to trade him and he would receive Tomlinson in return. This person trading McNabb would then have no QB's. However, he would have Tomlinson and his own RB if he chose to keep one.

I'm fairly certain I understand Sachmo regarding this issue. In any case, he needs to make it crystal clear as there is apparently some confusion, but I'm almost certain you can only keep 1 QB, 1RB, and 1WR. After you have those keepers, you can choose to trade one of these guys for another team's player.

in my opinion.... It would make more sense, if after the trades you were left with 1 QB, 1 RB and 1 WR...

If that is the case then why even mention Leftwich? That doesn't make sense.

Yeah, it is highly confusing. Perhaps ANOTHER clarification needs to be posted.

I think it makes sense to run it like I'm interperting it (and I'm almost certain Sachmo is interperting it.) I don't think a team that is strong at WR should be able to keep all 3 WR's or for any other position. We voted that you could keep 1 QB, 1RB, and 1WR (least I think it was a vote - maybe it was just an announcement.) Planned trades shouldn't invalidate this rule.

Dola -

Of course this just refers to the keeper positions. A team that chooses to trade it's keeper RB or QB will still be able to get a QB or whatever is needed in the draft with most of the players available.

I totally agree. I think the rule should be if you have deals in place that they automatically occur on 'drop day' and then at the end of that day you have to have 1 QB, 1 RB, and 1 WR.

Anyway, I can't remember... was there any benefit to NOT keeping a position? Did we do that if you keep a player you lose an early round system?

I agree with your idea for the trading rule as well (I would support such a rule change for that next year), but it has to be admitted that the rules themselves do NOT say that. They seem to pretty clearly state that there is no trading in the period after Thanksgiving until after keepers are declared (or after the draft, can't remember which one). That's why when I saw this Q and A:


Originally Posted by TheLionKing
will we be allowed to make any trades before we have to announce our keepers? Say, I have two decent QB's, and no WR's worth keeping.... could I pull a trade after the playoffs?

Response by sachmo
All trades in the offseason are considered gentleman's agreements, and will not be processed until the next season starts. Which means...yes.


I began my whole line of confusing questioning as it seems to indicate you can trade one of the extra QB's on your roster for another player you could have as a keeper.

EDIT: I think if you choose not to use a keeper selection, you get a pick at the end of the draft to fill out your roster.

Yeah, that is what the exchange with you and sachmo seems to imply. Maybe he was confused, but that is what it seems to me. I'd like not to have to keep any of my QBs and keep 2 RBs and immediately trade one in an offseason deal for a QB keeper.


Not much of an incentive ;).

Ok...guys, I am really sorry that we have gotten to this level.

Here is the rule.
You will submit a keeper list of 1 QB, 1 RB, and 1 WR. These are the only players that will be on your team for next year. All other players that were on your roster are in the free agent pool after all keepers are chosen. YOU CANNOT TRADE SOMEONE THAT YOU ARE NOT KEEPING!

After this list is submitted, this will be your team. You can then trade your keepers.


I may have missed some other questions, but one I did see was:


Anyone with less then three starters on their roster on draft day will be given supplemental picks at the end of the draft.

As for participation, it seems everyone was active to a certain degree.

Could we talk about possible changing this for future seasons? I think it would help out with the immersion with the league, and if nothing else, raise some good discussions.

I also think that we should change this rule for next year. There should be a little window of time after the season when you can make trades before the drop day.

Damn... yeah, I agree with changing the rule. I think you should be able to keep more than one player at a position if, by trades made to be executed right after the keeper lists are revealed, you have 1 QB, 1 RB, and 1 WR by the end of the day.

[quote=sachmo71]Ok...guys, I am really sorry that we have gotten to this level.

Here is the rule.
You will submit a keeper list of 1 QB, 1 RB, and 1 WR. These are the only players that will be on your team for next year. All other players that were on your roster are in the free agent pool after all keepers are chosen. YOU CANNOT TRADE SOMEONE THAT YOU ARE NOT KEEPING!

After this list is submitted, this will be your team. You can then trade your keepers.


I may have missed some other questions, but one I did see was:


One question. I'm not sure that I would, but could I keep a tight end which seems to fit in the receiving category instead of a WR?

I hope so. Antonio Gates is my man.

Since the TE is interchangeable with WR, you can keep a TE in lieu of a WR.

As for rule changes for the upcoming year, I am not adverse to changing them, but only if 100% of the owners are on board with the change...excluding me. Otherwise, we follow the posted rules for rule changes.

I assume the Superbowl is this week.

Good luck to Lathums Brew Crew, though we all hope and pray the Explosion reign supreme. :)

Btw, have we decided when drop day is for next year?