A vision of Solecismic's next game
 

I had a vision last night about Solecismic's next game. I don't know if this is original but at least it was clear to me: One of the most talked about annoyances of FOF was the apparent disconnect between TCY and FOF, as well as strong propenents of TCY or FOF, it struck me that the next game will be both. Not an upgrade of both products but a marriage - one seemless universe. A user can choose a TCY career while FOF is run in parallel in the background or a user can choose a FOF career while TCY is run (and the source of the FOF draft since it is one universe). Additionally, as a selling point, a user can choose to play as a coach and move through the ranks in college and to the pros - using the model that FBCB does so well.

Nice vision. If it comes true, you're Jesus.

Boy, this is old. I think I even talked about it last year before the 5.1 / 1.3 patches came out. I would LOVE to see this.

I didn't think it was original.

Was it a wet dream or didn't you get that far?

Maximus
 

Paging Maximus!

Jim really needs to play CM. That is pretty much what you described and definately the direction I think the game needs to go.

High School maybe. But Pop Warner? Nuh Uh

should we all just chip in and buy Jim a copy of CM so that he can play it?

as an aside...everytime I mention a SI/Solecismic "merger" I get intrigued comments from Jim and Marc. I think that's something all of us would drool over.

Actually i came up with this idea months ago and I was told that it would be a bad business move. :(

People bring this idea up every once in awhile and have been since TCY was orginally released.

A universe where everything is actual! Wallace Stevens would be so excited!

I really don't think he would merge the game together because they both make him money seperate but if he did it would cost $80+ dollars... Don't get me wrong, I would love to see it happen...

bad business move. NO.

Fair enough.

I think FOF and DMB should be merged together. That would rule.

On sale now! DMB-FOF can be yours for only $100!!

I agree that it is a bad business model to have both in one game. I don't know if this is technologically feasable, but I think it would be both great for business and for the gamer, if the two games could be run side by side and communicate with each other in real time to update potential draftees and such and run virtual worlds side by side. Heck, I'd just settle for small improvements in the transition of players from TCY2 to FOF.

$80? I'll buy.

A model like say, CoH and CoV...

The multiplayer aspect of a game such as this would be phenominal.....imagine 32 pro teams running in the background, as 40-50 human GM's gradually work from division 3 up to the pro level. It would be awesome with american football.

I wouldn't say it would absolutely be a bad business model. Maybe right now, but you'd think at some point, eventually some one is going to do that (combine pro and college into one game). And, giving that it's actually a good game, they will have a leg up on all other football sims (again, giving that the game is as good as, or maybe just slightly worse, then the competition) Who is going to buy 2 games when they can get it all in just 1? But yeah, probably not a good business move until you have a good feeling someone else is doing it.

I'm pretty sure DMB alone goes for more than that now. :)

Does Jim have a business model? We haven't really heard from him in a while. I would have hoped I could have purchased a game (preferrably football) by now.

waiting for good one-liners to follow...

You sure on this one? Every time I've seen it mentioned, if he responds at all it is to maintain his hardline stance as an independent developer. I could be wrong...

Well if he has a game it better come quick cuz in a matter of weeks I'll be futbol'ed and hockey'd out with the release of FM 06 and Fry's having EHM05.

Maybe Jim should try to merge with a huge videogame corporation like say...EA, :D

That would be a dream.

I have to give you points for knowing who Wallace Stevens is..

But you've got him just about backwards there, from a critical point of view.. He did write a poem called something like "Not Ideas, But the Thing Itself", so I can see where someone would get the idea that he liked what was actual, if what you mean by that is what is physical and tangible and "real". But his poetry was obsessed with the space that lies between what is really there (which we cannot really know) and what our senses fool us into believing. His is a poetry of the subjective. When you start focusing on perceptions, you've left the actual behind.. I think a universe where everyting was actual would have depressed Stevens to no end.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

--wandering literary critic, ret.

Why is the merger of the games different than the CM/FM model? It isn't like they force the gamer to buy separate games for each of the country leagues or divisions. The universe of college and pro football is much smaller than that of FM. Sure, there are differences that need to be accounted for, but the possibility of a consistent career make it worth it. FM allows you to rise through the ranks and coach conference teams all the way to top divisions in each country. Why can't you start as a small college coach and rise to coach an NFL team? I'm not sure this is the "best" business model, but I don't think you can call it a "bad" one.

I think this is the stage of the thread where Solecismic pops in and says something like, "It's a wonderful idea that just isn't technically feasible. The nimboplasm of TCY cannot mesh with the gazoodget of FOF. It can't happen."

Eek gads, nimboplasms and gazoodgets, golly gee willikers!

I think in Jim's mind it would cut his revenue stream in half. Take FOFC - you have a group that would by both TCY and FOF were they to be renewed. That's more money than if you just sell one game with both. If Jim could sell twice as many of them, then it might make sense, but there's absolutely no guarantee that would happen.

it *could* happen, jim is just too lazy. he's limited in vision, stubborn in his ways. if someone were to create such a game, it would be glorious. i don't think it's that far off, SI could easily do something like it. a game like that easily falls into the style of sports management games we're accustomed to them producing.

if they were to make such a game - i'm outta here. i'd become a hermit.

not quite. if you had to decide between paying for both a pro game and a separate college game from another company, or one mega game that would cost like $20 or so more - you might be inclined to kill two birds with one stone and go with the mega game. so yeah, you lose money selling two games as one, but you also get more customers by stealing potential buyers from the competition.

but don't look for such a game from Solecismic, jim has made it very clear he likes keeping his company small. like i said, such a game would have to come from SI, who already makes similar games to these.

I've got to take points away for not knowing who I am*, but fair enough; we'll play. One of Stevens' most famous lines is "Let be the finale of seem" from his poem "The Emperor of Ice Cream," in which a death serves as the catalyst for a reflection on the difference between the actual and the illusory world (and happens to be the point of my joke). "No ideas but in things" was one of William Carlos Williams' contributions to the Modernist literary perspective, and represented his poems perfectly. Stevens is also one of the Modernist trailblazers, helping to define a style that places most of its stock in image over rhetoric. Consider his "Anecdote of the Jar," for example. Certainly he was obsessed with the ambiguity of the space between the actual and the illusory**; it just didn't change the fact that he did his explorations from an Modernist perspective. You are correct when you say that an absolutely actual universe would have depressed Stevens; he says this himself, in fact, in the very poem I referenced in my first post. The choice of 'excited' over, say, 'pleased,' was a conscious one: Stevens would have had plenty to write about.


* There's a reason the title under my name isn't Grizzled Veteran, and it ain't for my haiku.
** He was also unforgivably obsessed with the colors blue and green, which seemingly appear in 85% of his poems. Not sure what the actual tally is. ;)

Everyone stand back - we have a poet cagematch going on.

hehe...nah, just some friendly territorial pissings. ;)

I think there is a fairly large percentage of college football fans who aren't interested in the pro game, and vice versa. So Solecismic could potentially end up losing itself some customers. If you're a college football fan, why pay 60 for TCY/FOF if you could get Bowl Bound College Football for 40?

Because Jim made it. Proof is in the pudding: Jim makes great games. I certainly see your point, and tend to take HA's side on things like this. Yet, I would think that a college football fan would realize that if a game like this came from Jim, it would be a good game to invest in.

Couldn't you also, not sure how easy it is to actually implement, but not only package them both into one game, but have the ability to Play only the College side (For TCY fans), and Play only Pro side( For FOF fans), and play both. And even if you select play one side, the other continues to run as well but all AI simulations. For instance, if you select, play college only, you can see how players from your school did in the pro's as well, and in only pro, you can get a feel for the upcoming draft classes?

It's like ketchup and mustard in the same bottle. A no brainer.

And what would be different?

Yes, I am thinking this is what Buc was thinking.

This would be the ultimate game for me. Still, I don't know of many GMs in real life that get canned in the pros and get an AD job in college. Vice versa.

A coach, that's a different story.

Hermits don't have computers.

Hermits have crabs.

From a business point of view, I'm not sure this makes sense (though it would be cool from a "universe" point of view). If he charged $60, that would certainly take him out of the price range of some folks (probably not anyone here, however).

So, really it's purely theoretical from his point of view as to how much more money he can make selling one large package vs. two smaller packages. I'm sure there would be a lot of development work involved, and you have to wonder what the payback would be, especially if it's not a 100% that he would benefit.

You're thinking very small here, as is Hell Atlantic. What about the uneducated consumer? A cheaper college game that has prettier graphics (Bowl Bound), or a more expensive college game that also a pro portion you have no interest in?


BTW, I am not trying to knock Bowl Bound. I'm extremely interested in the game personally, and i think it's appearance (from the screen shots i've seen) looks great, and will be more immediately accessible to the average (non-educated) buyer.

So Jim makes a new, awesome game and HA gets crabs.

Interesting.

I see your point.

I am NOT concerned about the uneducated consumer. I care about a game like this. I care about getting something cool like this from Jim. I could care less about Jim's business plan, target market, etc.

Uneducated consumer? Well, isn't that where marketing comes into play? Oh yeah, we had that discussion before as well. ;)

Also, bowl bound may look better than Jim's games. Hell, it may prove to play better; yet from the history of that family tree (TPF, 400 Studios) all those people who want bells and whistles better realize that the future of BB is questionable.