The Nightly discussion with people at work ...
 

The people I work with are a bunch of geeks, like me. Stands to reason, since I work for a large internet company. Anyway, there was a show last night on Discovery or History, or one of those kind about Hangar 18, the mysterious hanger in Wright Field in Ohio they took the crashed saucers from Roswell and others.

Generally speaking, I'm skeptical about the idea that aliens have visited earth ... I seem to think that if they're good enough to get here, they're good enough to either make themselves known to everyone or make it so no one even knew they were there. But the nightly discussion of irrevelant topics here at work is now solidly on aliens.

The question I have for y'all is:

Do you think the government is keeping the secret of aliens and, if so, do you (like I do) think that if they publically came out and announced that aliens had visited us, the US populace would collectively crack and go nuts?

No, I don't think so. I don't believe in ghosts, either. Famous psychics, such as John Edward and Sylvia Brown are entertainers.

That said, I do enjoy Ghost Hunters, for the entertainment value.

I've never heard anything compelling as to why the government would keep it a secret. So, no.

you ever see the mini-series "taken"....?

i think it originally aired on the sci-fi channel.

it was awesome, took place over a few generations and dealt with that topic exactly. goverment cover up, etc. i think they have it at blockbuster. rent it....

No. I think UFO sightings are largely a phenomenon that started due to cold war fear combined with B-grade sci-fi movies.

I think there is probably something out there in the universe that resembles, in someway or another, life as we know it. I doubt very much that it is humanoid and builds space craft that can journey across the universe however.

I believe in Aliens personally* - with regards to whether proof has been found and restricted, no idea ... but it would automatically happen imho.

Simply put if Aliens were substantiated then it would put considerable strain upon all of the major religions which in turn would be a huge destabalising force for peace imho.

*Yeah my daughter thinks I'm mad as well - but she's the mature member of the family (at the rip old age of 12 :D) ;)

I remember being about 12 or 13 and playing in what is called the Warrior Classic. This is a soccer tournament where about 3/4 of the games are played at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. One of the parents on our teams was taking a group of us to lunch in between games and I remember him mentioning Hangar 18 as we drove by it and telling us the story.

There has to be other life out there...as to what form who knows. Either way, I can see aliens visiting here but the way there are appearances you would think it's a vacation destination. A couple of years ago I heard a rather bizarre theory that we're (humans) actually the aliens and we took over Earth years and years ago coming from another planet.

I would not put it past our government to be hiding this secret. I've often read mention that stealth technology is based on alien craft and I wouldn't be surprised at that either. As mentioned, telling the world might present more trouble than just keeping it quiet.

There's a really good sci-fi short story somewhere along these lines with the twist being that we were 'planted' here as cattle for long-distance intergalactic travellers ....

Agreed. Don't people realize that if aliens did visit us, they'd come all the way across the galaxy to do more than just hover over Phoenix or an airport and dart around in the sky?

Is there life out there somewhere? Yes, I think so. Have they visited Earth? No.

No.

They aren't as smart as we like to think they are. They still haven't figured out what to do beyond flying down here, being spotted, and responding, "Shit, they saw us! Let's get the hell out of here!"

Combined with the testing of new high-performance aircraft in these areas. I think a lot of these sightings were just classified aircraft tests. Keep in mind that technology was bounding ahead, and these tests were being run in VERY rural areas before the days of instant communication. People were seeing things they had no clue could POSSIBLY exist, yet we know they could and often did at the right timeframes.


It's a good point to follow up with: just because I don't think the government is hiding anything doesn't mean I think aliens don't exist.

I think it is pretty arrogant of us to believe that we are the only intelligent (somewhat) life in the vast universe so yes I believe there is something else out there. Have they visited us? I'm not sure but there is no real proof that they have. Until there is I have to say no.

Possibly I've seen too much. Hangar 18, I know too much.

There may be life out there...I wouldn't worry about it too much since we can't on this planet seem to get along with each other...I'd only worry if this showed up on my doorstep.

I thought Alien Autopsy pretty much confirmed that aliens have been here.

If the government knows something, there is no value in letting anyone know. If Roswell happened (and it was aliens) and the government came out today and said it was aliens and they knew for this long, people would question pretty much anything the government has told them.

Plus, people are extremely fearful of what they don't understand. Hell, people can't wrap their minds around homosexuality let alone introduce that aliens actually exist.

Not sure of the effects it would have on religion. You would think that if you believed God created the universe that you would take the presence of aliens just to be another one of God's creations and it shouldn't affect your core beliefs. Now... organized religions, if they preach we are it.. different story but, I don't know enough about all the different religions.

As for aliens viewing us, I find it much more probable that they would do it from the rural areas rather than just drop into New York. If I'm going to view a pride of lions, I'm going to do it from the outside looking in.. not running into the middle of them going 'Heeeeeeeeere kitty kitty kitty".

It would not surprise me either way that aliens have or have not been here for maybe the same reason that we need to get off this planet. Sooner or later we will become an extinct species unless we find a way off this rock at some point in the future.

Two thoughts. One, as a Baptist Minister, no, it would not put a "considerable strain" on my faith or beleif system.

Secondly, it would be a unifying force for humanity if we discovered alien life. Our own bickerings would seem so small by comparison. But I fear for the aliens.

Has intelligent life formed in other planetary systems? Probably.

Does intelligent life currently exist in other planetary systems? Like humanity, any alien life probably has a limited window of existence (unless they develop interstellar travel). I think the odds are pretty long that alien intelligence exists at the same time as us.

Has life developed the techlology to travel between the stars? Possible but I doubt it.

Has said life visited our system at some point? Highly unlikely.

Does this life exist right now and is currently making jaunts to our planet? My guess is the chances are almost nil.

So, I don't believe aliens are visiting and the government is covering it up. If such aliens did exist and were visiting us, I do believe the governments of the world would have reason to cover it up. After all, the aliens would automatically have a position of complete dominance over us. If they could travel here from another star, they could easily wipe us out. It would be as easy as grabbing a few local asteroids and dropping them on us, like in Larry Niven's Footfall.

I fully believe the government is covering up things.
I fully believe there are crashed "crafts" now in R&D centers.

I think tihese crafts are human construction and consist of early developments in flight advance as well as spy crafts from other countries.

Think of how amazed we are when we see new military technology. Something like a stelth bomber isnt developed in weeks, months or even a few years. If it was in front of us in the mid 80s I find it possible and even likely that it was being tested as early as the late 60s. With that said 2032 technology could be in beta test at this point. Though I do think computer simulation will help to reduce the amount of necessary field testing and result in fewer sightings.

I have no thoughts on alien life, I really can see both sides and dont know how I really feel.

Of course aliens exist. There is a professor at my alma mater that is an alien. And haven't you ever seen K-PAX?

I believe in aliens. So does my brother Kang.

I've seen V. I know they're out there.

There is a basis in social psychology for this prediction--people tend to try to differentiate themselves at the highest possible level. For example:

If you are speaking with someone from another country, you become more conscious that you are American. If you are speaking with another American, you would say what state you were from. If you were chatting with someone from the same state as you, you would mention what town you were from, and so forth.

So presumably, if the aliens were to come--it wouldn't surprise me if the humans main point of differentiation would become human vs alien. As Anxiety states, I would fear for the aliens, since this would still be creating an us vs them dynamic.

A final note, believe it or not, Ronald Reagan described something similar in a speech where he claimed that world peace would happen after an alien invasion, since differences between countries wouldn't matter as much in the face of an alien threat.

Was it Reagan that said that or President Thomas J. Whitmore?

The government would need to keep thousands of people quiet for 50 years. Good luck with that.

Alien mind control device. Game over, bro.

I believe our government is far too incompetent to keep a secret like that.

Does Daryl Dawkins count? He's from the planet Lovetron.

I remember that, though that concept has been done a lot. Do you pick up Gardner Dozois' annual "Best of Sci Fi" list?

On topic, I believe there is life elsewhere in the universe, though I wonder if it is the same as our definition of it.

This this the most reasonable explanation, and I agree with the consensus.

The conspiracy people always consider the "government" basically to be one, unchanging static entity that was the same now as it was in 1952 or whatever, which just isn't the case in our country, for the most part. People come and go, ideas change drastically. Something like that would have eventually gotten out to a bigger extent.

+1

If the government couldn't succesfully cover up a hotel burglary or a blow job, what makes anybody think they could cover up something actually interesting?

that's the genius of it. leak all this other crap and keep the really cool stuff secret.

come on it's so simple...maybe you need a refresher course.

I still haven't heard a compelling reason for a cover up. Plus, you would have to believe that more than the U.S. is covering it up. If there were alien visitors, I doubt they would choose only to land in the U.S.

But the USA actually controls the New World Order, or something. I heard that once.

We have a winner.

The government doesn't need to be competent, they just need the public to be skeptical. Hell, you have people out there that believe the holocaust didn't happen.

You could have an alien land a spacecraft in DC and people would claim CGI and special effects.

I think you have the logic backwards.

If the government slipped up and an "alien body" story broke, with proof, and was reputable, of course there'd be people that still don't believe it. So what? Like you said, there's people that don't believe the Holocaust, but those people are on the fringes. If aliens landed, it would have gotten out, and those deniers would be on the fringes, just like the Holocaust deniers are. In wouldn't effect what was considered "mainstream truth".

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?" He said, "Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?" He said,"Reformed Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off. -- Emo Phillips

While I agree on the surface, I would also suggest that many people HAVE came forward and said they DID see something. We call them quacks.

(I am playing a strong devil's advocate here, not sure I can even believe what I am arguing, but for the sake of argument....)

The gov't could very well convince people (military employees) through long term brainwash or suggestive influence techniques that they would be discredited if they went public. Not to mention there are few enemies I would rather have less than the us gov't. Corruption definitely run ramapant and of you were former military a trumped up trial later you could be locked away for years.

[/ridiculous conspiracy theorist mode]

Yes, this illustrates the point better than I could--no matter how many commonalities they have with someone, people will search for a differentiator...

Heh, heh. Reagan scooped Whitmore by 10 years...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iDmaB5BxzA

They haven't done a very good job keeping the secret if all these UFO folks know it.

They are just doing a superb job of continual denial. Since we can't break into their facilities, they don't have to worry about keeping it secret (as evidenced by all the stories). They just have to keep people from getting in and that is easy.

I'm sure that many people will be able to find a way to amalgamate intelligent alien life forms into their current theology - however you must admit as Christians only believe themselves to go to heaven (and have souls etc.) its unlikely that its going to be a popular religion amongst aliens and some of its current practicioners may see its condemning of the aliens to hell as a possible proof of it being incorrect.

I would really love that to be the case - however my natural cynicism doubts this would be the underlying effect.

If you doubt this consider that christians all believe in the power of God and that worshiping him and being 'good christians' is the most important thing they can do - however that doesn't stop the average church from having 'politics' and suchlike amongst its members* ...

*Alternatively I might just be attending the wrong churches ;)

I disagree strongly with folks that say that a UFO landing on Earth and Martian men making their way outside of their craft to say hi would throw the world in to chaos and cause the end of religion.

It might sway the fence-sitters, but really, religious faith has stood up to discoveries already that have cast some doubt on their scriptures, or has outright contradicted them. Evolution is the obvious big one, but it's not the only branch of science to do so. Most religious folk have little difficulty fitting their religion inside the constraints of known reality.

I'd say that the discovery of evolution is a bigger hurdle than the possible future discovery of intelligent life outside of Earth, and religion handled that hurdle just fine.

Another thing that troubles me about "intelligent life" in aliens is that we as humans are definitely products of our environment. It took us a long time to take the shape that we have today (physically and mentally), and any number of different variables could have seen us exist in a completely different form - or even not at all. What we consider to be "intelligence" might not exist anywhere else and might just be a human or Earth-specific development.

Whether it's a FAVOURABLE development, well, I'm still on the fence about that one. ;)

Since this thread sort of went the religioius route, the book or movie "Contact" is a good one involving the issue of religion/theology dealing with the possibility of intelligent alien life.

The ending of Contact was quite simply amazing. To this day, it kills me, and I'm not completely sure what to make of it.

Please no one ruin this ending for me. Contact has been on my "too see" list forever, and I keep forgetting about it. I've heard countless people mention the "ending", but have so far avoided hearing any spoilers...

Yeah but evolution is a "theory" not something you can sit down and talk politics with (ie. its easy to argue over semantics of theory, but if you can physically see something with your own eyes its harder to ignore).