Am I wrong?
 

ok, my sister is getting married in July. her fiance is having a bachelor party camping trip June 9. now, this guy is not Johnny Woo Hoo!@! or anything, or at least he doesn't play one around me. i have never met the other guys in the bachelor party - who are, not surprisingly, his friends. i would only know my future bro in law and essentially be "the outsider". also, i didn't want my wife's brother to be around me for my bachelor party, and rightfully so he would have felt excluded being an over 30 guy hanging out with a pack of wild 25, 24 year old bucks in NYC. an uneasy awkwardness was avoided by him not being there and i respected that. no harm, no foul.

so the best man recently has been sending out emails regarding the camping trip, and while i did not feel comfortable at all with the idea of doing this thing i figured there are people dying in Baghhdad every day for walking on a street so one camping weekend with a bunch of strangers isn't so bad. but i'm not the type to ease into being myself around new people. i dont like all the niceties and fakeness with presenting yourself in the best possible light and slowly revealing the perverted, obnoxious and gross human you really are that your own friends have come to know you for. i like to jump right into it. either you accept me or you don't. also, i don't like new people cuz i tend to make a lot of funny comments and i bust balls like i do with my own group, and not knowing what's offensive to you or if your sister really did get raped or your aunt really did die of AIDS i just don't like to be buddy buddy with people i don't know. i like knowing what i can and can't say to you. in my group we all know each other's flaws and off-limit subjects.

now, with that in mind, some emails i sent were intended to break the ice, to be funny and generally show that i didn't intend on being the quiet guy on the outside. i thought i made some really hilarious emails. only thing was no one acknowledged them. now, yes, i can leave open the possibility that they maybe weren't funny, but in any event the guys in the bachelor party should have at least acknowledged the fact that i was trying. so with that in mind i decided this wouldn't be something i was interested in participating in, like i said i don't like being the outsider or being a listener during the enevitable "remember when...?" time in the conversation came up. and it didn't seem like these guys were going to be going out of their way to make me feel like one of the group. if there was even one or two other people i knew who were going it'd be different. i emailed the group that i wasn't going but will still be sending in my share of the money (and since i'm not going my share is essentially going to fully pay for the groom's). it's obviously not a money thing. the best man took offense that i'm not coming, went about it rather tacky and instead of emailing me personally played the whole "you're the groom's brother in law to be, you have to come!" card and sent it to everyone. i had to play damage control but was put off by it. what if it was a money thing and i couldn't afford to do this and was trying to graciously decline while saving face (for the record, i kinda can't afford it cuz i'm busy paying for the vegas trip for my wife's bday present, but i was still gonna cowboy up and give my share). i didn't back out at the last minute - i tried to be a man and give these guys almost 3 weeks notice and still contribute money. to me that's decent and acceptable and more than what i would have done for my own friends (or what they would have done for me vice versa).

i guess i'm saying it was kinda tacky for the best man to call me out like that (albeit on email) when there coulda been various reasons for me not coming. my stance is they had their chance to accept me as one of the guys and show me it wasn't gonna be awkward, but they didn't, and thus didn't give me any reason to think the weekend camping trip dynamic would be any different.

my sister is pissed though, she thinks i don't like her fiance. i emailed him seperately to let him know it wasn't anything personal. let me know if i'm wrong in all of this.

Of all the people I have every known to actually be funny, none have ever described themselves as funny.

the answer to your question is yes

I think for what you did, you did it in about the best possible way, and that the best man is being pretty crappy. However, this is one of those situations in which no matter how you feel, you pretty much have to suck it up and deal with it for the weekend...at least in my opinion.

when i say things, people laugh. i'm not exactly a debbie downer. again, whether i was funny or not is not the question. they could have humored me or *someone* coulda replied back/acknowledged my effort. i don't like new people and i have all the friends i'm ever going to need, i don't need to make any new ones. the fact that i was trying to fit in (to show my future bro in law that i was gonna try and support him and show him a decent time that weekend) should have earned me some points. when my boston friend said he was inviting his friend he made in Mass to my group's Vegas trip last year, he made the right decision in putting that guy on our email distribution list so we could all get to know one another and bond (as much as you can via email). it worked like a charm and i can honestly say we all hit it off so good with this guy that he decided to come to Vegas one day early with my and my other friend cuz he felt so comfortable with me and the NYC guys. this is how it's done.

Yep, the answer to your question is yes.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to go, but in the end would do it for my sister's sake.

Sounds like a crap weekend though, she'd owe you.

here is my email to the guys declining to come:


here was his response (to everyone, the groom included):


and my retort:

(these guys are all from Jersey, and no one from my group, yours truly included, is fond of Jersey; think Borat spending time in that motel run by Jewish people as a reference LOL).

The best man handled things pretty shitty by emailing his response to you out to everyone. If you had any reservations about going he should have kept the conversation between you and him before letting everyone else know that you wouldn't be going.

Without knowing your family situation, I'd have to say that its a situation where you have to suck it up and accept the camping trip no matter how shitty it is. Your sister probably sees it as you accepting her fiance and if she's pissed about you not going, it obviously means a lot to her.

Personally, I'd go, I'd be myself, and if they don't like it or are put off by you then its on them. You did your part by making your sister happy and you get to find out if her fiance is a guy you're going to have to pretend to like for the next how many odd years or not.

ok, the consensus is that i actually was wrong. for the record i did confer with my wife about how uncomfortable i felt i was going to be for that weekend and that i was miffed that they weren't really welcoming or even acknowledging my existence.

i didn't get any "oh, anthony, you're the future bro in law, will be glad to meet you" or any shit like that. i wasn't acknowledged. i don't need someone to stroke my penis, i'm a man, but throw me a bone and give me something.

they seem like they get your sense of humor. Otherwise the guy wouldn't have responded back about the circlejerk...he would have just shrugged that off as whatever...a lame comment, the fact that he's going along with it makes me think your weekend wouldn't be THAT miserable.

I dunno...i think you sorta should go and suck it up. but your sister owes you one, no doubt.

fact I have a feeling i'll be in a similar situation when my sister's marriage-thing gets underway sometime soon

thank you, very nice response. for the record my sister and i love each other and while my future bro in law isn't someone i would expect to be in my circle of friends i accept him and try to make him feel like one of the family. he's a good guy. my stance on these types of things is i don't have to sleep with him - so as long as he treats my sister with respect (and he does) then he's fine in my book. i have no probs with him, in fact, if this was going to be any other type of deal - say like going to Hoboken, New Jersey or somewhere to get bombed on booze i'd be going. the prospect of hanging out with a bunch of guys who didnt seem to be receptive to me kinda soured me on the weekend. and this wasn't spur of the moment. i spoke with my wife about it several times last week and she was supportive.

The "I owe a favor to a homie" was a lame excuse. Then again, not going because they hurt your feelings by not replying to your "funny" email is even lamer.

1) This isn't about you, it's about your sister and her future husband.
2) Suck it up, go, try and have a good time, and try not to be the center of attention (see #1 for quick reference).

shit, i guess i was wrong. i kinda got the impression that i was possibly only wanted for my financial contribution towards the weekend, cuz they certainly didn't make it seem like i was going to be wanted for my good looks and overall great charm. i figured that i if i just hand in my money and not come that'd be just as acceptable to them. i just find it weird that now when i say i'm not coming is when the best man starts to acknowledge me. ok, i guess i got some thinking to do. thanks people.

without reading the thread at all I would gamble its a safe bet to answer the question with a "yes." The pre-read odds (8/5 or 8/7) are certainly in my favor. Ill go back and read HA's original post in a minute.

i appreciate your honesty.

just note, "i owe a favor to a homie" could have been an excuse for any number of reasons (maybe i didn't have the money, like i mentioned; maybe my wife is scared to be left home by herself for long periods of time, who knows). i understand where you're coming from, just from my point of view i tried to give enough notice and am paying for my share even though i'm not coming. to question my reason for not going even if he didn't believe me was bush. unless he really wanted me to say "you guys don't seem like my kind of crowd and don't seem like the kind of people i'd want to spend 2 nites out in the wilderness with". i could easily have said that but opted for the path of least resistance. but i do appreciate you breaking it down like that.

Must...................resist..................urge......................to..........................make............................King........................Jackoff...............................joke.

question:

do you guys think, as a show of good faith towards my sister and future brother in law, that i should offer to take him out for drinks? just the two of us? we could use some further bonding time and i'm more in my element in a bar. i think this would be a fair alternative. it would show that i have nothing against him. i would also come clean and tell him i wasn't going to feel comfortable that weekend. he wouldn't feel comfortable spending a weekend with my friends camping, i can assure you of that, so i wouldn't put him through that. i'm sure he'll feel the same way. i wasn't trying to avoid spending time with him, just trying to avoid being in that situation where i know going in i'm going to feel uncomfortable and uneasy.

i actually like this idea.

Believe me - that's the last thing I'd ever want to do - spend a couple nights camping (of all things) with a bunch of strangers. Still, I see no way out and you sometimes have to do the right thing rather than the fun thing.

An entire weekend?

I'd be pissed that it's even an expectation.

friday nite into sunday. they're going all of friday into sunday, so i would have to find some way to either leave work early to hitch a ride with them or find a way to get there myself. we only have one car in my house and i wouldn't leave my wife without it for emergency purposes. getting there was the least of my worries, but yeah, an entire weekend with guys i've never met before and the only thing i know is that they didn't seem much interested in me when i introduced myself via email is what weighed on my mind.

Only my opinion, but it seems you made a very conscious decision to force your personality down everybody else's throats, and while I understand your desire to avoid the platitudes and banalities that come with being the 'outsider' within a group of friends, I don't think you can then complain about someone else being a 'little rude' without sounding like a bit of a hypocrite. If you're going out of your way not going to account for anybody else's sensibilities, why should they cater to yours?

I don't know your family dynamics, so things just don't automatically translate, but in my family, if it were my sister, there would be no chance that I'd go, and no chance that anyone would ever think I'd go. Then again, I'm the most strong-willed of five strong-willed siblings. (I'm sure that's a shocker...)

It depends on your sister, imho. If she strongly wants you to go, you suck it up and go, and explain to her later, when she's not emotional over her wedding, what a completely absurd expectation that was.

Remember, this is for your sister, not really for your future brother-in-law. Smoothing things over with him isn't necessarily what you should be looking at here.

It would be a nice gesture to take him out for drinks before the trip, but I'd see it more as something to do on top of actually going. If you're feeling really crazy you could invite the best man also so you can explain why you were wanting to cancel and you'll also get a lot of the initial akwardness out of the way. Would probably make a potentially unbearable weekend slightly better.

Taking him out for drinks and going on the trip should give you a lifetime pass on guilt trips from your sister.

I would ar least make an appearance. If they are going for 3 days and 2 nights you should try to show up for the second night for 4 or 5 hours. I have found that in weekend camping trips everyone remembers the good times on Saturday night, and no one remembers all the unpacking that had to be done on Friday night. Bring a camera, take lots of pictures of yourself there, be nice for a few hours, and then get the hell out of there.

Use your Homie excuse for the reason you are only making a brief appearance, but at least you will be making an effort and that will count for something.

understandable. i wasn't being rude, just i don't play the "meak and humble guy willing to stand on the sidelines just cuz i'm new" role well. here's an example of one of the emails i sent early on looking to break the ice:


again, i'm not a comedy writer so it actually being funny is moot. (i got a chuckle out of it). but this is just an example of what i was sending, just to show i had a sense of humor and wasn't going to be a bump on a log and/or boring.

First - given that you didn't get a single acknowledgment from any of them until you said you couldn't go is pretty much a sign on how it's going to be when/if you go on this trip - no one's even going to pretend you are there unless you say or do something to upset the natural balance of things.

Second - a camping trip for a bachelor party? WTF? Unless someone's sneaking the strippers in with the sleeping bags, I'd bail on principle alone.

Finally - you got to take into consideration how uncomfortable you're going to make everyone else, not just how uncomfortable they'll make you, so not going may also be the nice thing to do.

If it were me? I'd make up an excuse and not go.

Read the thread title and the comment about camping over a weekend and the first thought that came to mind was the movie Deliverance.

I have say that I find it downright bizarre that, if I'm reading all of this right, the best man seems to give a shit (or is willing to pretend to) whether you're there or not.

Nothing personal HA, not in the slightest in fact, but you spelled out pretty clearly that you don't know any of these people (except the groom-to-be) from Adam, so why on earth you got anything other than a courtesy invitation completely baffles me. And I mean completely.

So, FWIW, I thought the original logic you applied to not really wanting to be there was extremely sound & made perfect sense. And your method of avoiding the whole situation seemed to cover all the bases and should have worked like a charm. If I were you, I'd be a little concerned that the in-law to be has planned some sort of "accident" for you on this trip or something, because the level of interest in your attendance on the part of the best man doesn't seem remotely normal to me.

Have you ever considered that you might actually have a really good time?

It really depends on what your sister wants you to do. If she's going to be offended, then you have to go. If she doesn't care, then don't go. If you're not offending her and the fiance is OK with it, no big deal. Who cares what the best man thinks, you'll never see him again.

I can see why you wouldn't want to go. It reminds me of a few years ago when I was invited to my wife's best friend's fiance's bachelor party, which was a daylong paintball game. I don't mind this guy, but I didn't know most of his friends, I didn't like the ones I did know, and I don't like paintball. But my wife really wanted me to go because she felt like the guy would feel bad, so I went. And it sucked, but I'm glad I went. Although that was only a day... a whole weekend might have been too much for me to handle.

All that said, I never spent one minute worrying about whether I'd feel like part of the group or whether they'd make an effort to "accept me" or any of that, because I'm not a girl. Neither are you, so cut that shit out.

Cowboy up.

Agreed. Not to mention that they're going to spend the whole weekend getting drunk and talking about various sex acts performed by his sister... you'd think having him there would put a damper on the fun.

+1

You should tell your sister what you're telling us.

sounds like a real exciting bachelor party... I don't know how you could even think about missing it.

My instantaneous reaction to the thread title was "Weel DUH we're talking about YOU here, of course you're wrong" bu frankly, I'd never have suggested that I'd go along on such a trip. A camping trip is NOT a bachelor party. What sort of moron planned this?

Seriously, tell them thanks but no thanks. Spending a weekend with a bunch of people you don't know is lame enough, all of them being male makes it a freak show.

Don't go.

And if your sister bitches about it, tell her to call me and I'll tell her whats what.

Camping?? Whatever happened to goin to the bada bing and having some fun for a couple of hours? A whole weekend of this bonding crap with a bunch of jagoffs you don't even know much less like, blows like a streetcorner crack whore. Tell em to go f themselves. And tell nature boy best man if he ever bust your balls in front of anyone again, you will shove his computer up his ass...*

* entire text taken from season 3 episode 6 Sopranos.

i actually agree 100% with this. ultimately i have decided (or reaffirmed) to not go, as originally planned. the point of this thread was to find out if i really was completely in the wrong, not to see if i was wrong and should change my mind. i think the general consensus is it's about 60-40 in favor of me being wrong, maybe 55-45. i'll take that. what this has taught me is that going forward rather than being nice and saying i'll go, i will remain noncommittal in these situations and ask to be kept in the loop if "something unforeseen" comes up making me available to come along. i think this all started cuz i said i would come and now realize this isn't an environment i want to be in so i'm backing out, and i think i could've avoided this by saying "no" with the option to change my mind in the future. everything in life is a lesseon.

If you don't want to go then don't go. I was in the same position last year and I told my sister I didn't want to go. She understood and didn't push me into going. If you haven't told your sister your reason for not going you should. My brother in law didn't seem to mind too much that I didn't go and we have a good relationship today. And at the wedding where I was a groomsman, exactly what I thought would happen at the bachelor party did happen. My brother in law and his groomsmen friends stood around talking about the "remember when..." topics that you mentioned while I just stood there and listened and didn't really get any of their inside jokes. So I was glad I didn't go to the bachelor party where I would have been stuck with just these people for a couple of days. At the wedding I didn't have to spend a lot of time with just the groomsmen outside of the reception dinner so it was a lot more fun than I imagine the bachelor party would have been.

Sorry, I thought weekend of camping was code for trip to the stripclub since it was a bachelor party. I take back everything I said. Fuck 'em. ;)

FWIW, I don't think you were wrong. If I were in the same position I'd be looking for any way to get out of it as well. Camping isn't my thing. Throw in people I don't know and it sounds like a weekend of hell. I'd probably end up giving in for the simple fact its for family and then I'd probably remind my sister about it every time I saw her. Its a no win situation any way you look at it.

thank you. again, i agree with this. i thought i was doing the gentlemanly thing the way i went about it - no one should be forced into a situation where they know going in they'll be uncomfortable. i was just taken aback by the best-man's reaction and the way he went about voicing it (including the groom to be in the email). bad form. they planned on doing a 3 hour white water rafting excursion, and as much as i would love to be an outdoorsy outdoorsman that's not me, i'm a city slicker. but yeah, you kinda hit on the same points i was thinking (not so much planned "accident", that sounds really creepy though now that you bring it up lol). i was gonna be a trooper but i just didn't get the kind of vibe i need that would allow me to want to spend a camping weekend with a bunch of strangers. i was willing to give it a chance, not that i'm looking for brownie points but i certainly wasn't expecting to get called out for declining (on top of agreeing to still pay my share, i thought that was a gesture of goodwill on my part).

My sister is getting married in September. If I was in your situation there is no way in hell I'd go. I probably would have let them know from the start, but I don't think you handled it too poorly.

My opinion, which is related to my thoughts on all things wedding-related, is that you do whatever it is that the bride (in this case your sister) wants. If this means going on a 3-day camping trip with a bunch of guys you don't know, and subverting your normal personality a bit so you don't create an incident and paying out $80, then you suck it up and do it.

However....

I have no idea what the best man's doing, here. First, I'm going to assume that the reason your initial emails were met with silence was either a) these guys don't do a lot of emailing for communication, and/or especially with "outsiders" or b) they found your emails lame, offensive, or in bad taste. Either way, it bodes ill for your participation in the camping trip because either a) they're pretty insular or b) they're not on the same wavelength as you.

Based on this, you threw the best man a total gift by telling him you couldn't go. If this guy can't realize that you're likely to not fit in, and possibly make this something they're not looking for, then he's an idiot. Let's face it, it's perfectly possible that for this group of friends, doing a 3-day camping trip as a bachelor party is something they like to do, and are looking forward to. As JiMGA said, I'm surprised you got anything more than a courtesy invite. If I were the best man and had to organize a 3-day camping trip, and had to invite a guy I didn't know, I'd want him to either a) fit in with the group I know is going or b) not come. You gave him option 2 and for him, this is a very good option.

Anyway, I don't know what you do at this point other than to let your sister know that you can't/won't go, mostly because it really isn't your thing, but try not to let it get blown out of proportion. Good luck.

I agree with the people that said don't go. A whole weekend? Camping? With people you don't know? Ridiculous. It was nice of them to give you the invitation, but c'mon. Why would it be important that you be there? To show you support the addition to your family? Then just do what you said and take him out for drinks. Or invite him and your sis over to your house to have dinner with you and your wife. There's really no reason that you would have to be there, and I bet everyone involved (except your sister) would rather you not go.

uhhhhh...wow. i didn't know i logged in as Senator for this post.

Exactly. One night, fine. You should go.

A whole weekend with people you don't know? Not a chance. I mean, if it was Vegas...maybe, but not camping.

I would assume you aren't in the wedding party, so really there is no reason you should be going. Then again, I'm pretty tired and skimmed the first post. I can't believe they would want you to hang out all weekend with people you don't even know/don't care if you know/don't give 2 shits if you know.

I mean, you cowboy up if it's one day, but there's no way you can even feign interest in these people for that long.

FWIW, to me the guy who suggested popping in for a few hours on Saturday has a good idea. It's not too painful for you, you score points with everyone -- nature boy, brother-in-law, your sister; for going way out of our way to make it up there, you don't have to put up with the worst shit about camping (setting up, mud, etc.), and don't even stay overnight.

Then, if you take the best man and in-law out for drinks you're especially the hero.

I wouldn't go if I didn't know anyone.
I would barely consider the offer if I did.

I second the drinks and showing up for a few hours on Saturday night idea. It's a good compromise.