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-   -   FOFC OFFENSIVE GAME PLAN LIBRARY (https://forums.operationsports.com/fofc//showthread.php?t=62660)

Ben E Lou 12-17-2007 06:43 PM

FOFC OFFENSIVE GAME PLAN LIBRARY
 
NOTE: If you have questions about these, please post here publicly. You'll get a much faster response by posting in this thread, where any one of the hundreds of people who have read this thread may be able to answer your question within minutes, rather than waiting for one guy to respond to a PM. Thanks!



Thanks to the guys in the FOFL, especially Subby, for inspiring me to get this done. The idea behind this library is to give people some baseline offensive game plans to either use out of the box, or tweak. These game plans will be somewhat similar to an offensive philosophy that you've seen one team or another use in the last 20ish years--all but one in the last 10. A few notes from the start:
  • For all game plans, I've only tweaked the "Basic Offensive Game Plan" and "Miscellaneous Offensive Settings" screens--the two offensive screens that Rex changes based on your players' skill sets and the upcoming opponent. Adjustments aren't used at all (I'll explain why later), and the Personnel and Formation Use screens are all just the standard recommendations, which do not change from team to team. Tweaking the other screens can absolutely have a positive or negative impact on your team, but that's probably for more "advanced" game planners. This library is intended to put everyone who uses it in the "intermediate" range, if you will.
  • All six game plans should sound fairly familiar to you just by name. However, they may not match your perceptions of what such a game plan is. (For example, "West Coast" is a mixed passing/running offense, not a heavy passing offense.) I didn't go over-anal on these and try to get them to match up perfectly with a specific NFL team, but be assured that the run/pass splits and passing distances should roughly match at least one real-life team in our memory that used that philosophy. That's why adjustments were turned off, so that in testing, the resultant splits wouldn't be skewed by a team winning or losing a good bit.
  • Run directions were left completely generic intentionally, to be tweaked in accordance with the skills of your backs/linemen.
  • The variation in number of wins between the five-season tests I did with the same team--one that had big red bars all over the place and can run any philosophy--on each game plan was statistically insignifanct. In other words, my tests of these heavily implies that while these produce radically different statistics from one another, there's no significant "best" or "worst" to be found among these. So, the gamer should feel safe just to pick one he likes, and get the personnel to make it work. Or, if you're wanting to use this on an existing MP team, just pick the one that best fits your personnel. One of the best changes in the 6.0e/6.1/6.1a patch cycle is the fact that there's no longer a "best" winning offensive strategy.
  • As I said, these are rough matches. Don't be coming to me with "THE WEST COAST IS 49.5% RUNNING. YOUR GAME PLAN ONLY PRODUCED 47.5% RUNNING!!!!" To give everyone an idea of what to expect in general, I ran five 16-game seasons with each game plan, and here's some relative information about what to expect with each plan:

NAME RUN% COMP% PassYPC SHORT MED LONG
West Coast MEDIUM VERY HIGH LOW VERY HIGH MEDIUM-LOW LOW
SmashMouth VERY HIGH HIGH HIGH MEDIUM HIGH MEDIUM MEDIUM-LOW
RunAndShoot VERY LOW VERY HIGH LOW HIGH MEDIUM-LOW VERY LOW
Balanced MEDIUM MEDIUM-HIGH MEDIUM MEDIUM MEDIUM MEDIUM
PlayActionVertical HIGH LOW-MEDIUM VERY HIGH LOW HIGH VERY HIGH
GreatestShowOnTurf MEDIUM-LOW MEDIUM HIGH MEDIUM MEDIUM HIGH


Keep in mind that these are RELATIVE terms. "Very High" running in smash mouth, for example, means that, without any adjustments, you can expect a team using that game plan to run roughly 59% of the time--well above the NFL average and in the range that only a handful of teams in the last decade have run the ball. "Very Low" for the Run and Shoot means that you should expect to run it roughly 36% of the time--right around Oilers/Falcons territory in the seasons mentioned. In the posts that follow, I'll break down each game plan.

NOTE: For each game plan, I'm going to show you a season with the 2007 Colts, because their players' skill sets indicate that they can do it all. Obviously, don't expect the level of success that you're going to see with the Colts, but do expect that if your players have the right skills, to see these philosophies work well.


DOWNLOAD LINK:
FOFC Offensive Game Plan Library

Ben E Lou 12-17-2007 06:44 PM

"WEST COAST" OFFENSE

GENERAL PHILOSOPHY

Mixture of running and high-percentage passing. The high-percentage pass may be used interchangeably with the run in some situations.



DESIRED SKILL SETS
In general, in this offense one wants to avoid drops and negative-yardage runs, to avoid 2nd or 3rd and Long.


QB: Screen, Short, Accuracy, Timing

Backs: Running Skills + Getting Downfield & Avoid Drops. Low elusiveness is not a bad thing in this offense.

WRs: Getting Downfield, Avoid Drops

TEs: Getting Downfield, Avoid Drops, Run Blocking

OL: Balanced Run and Pass Blocking. Slightly more emphasis on run blocking.


SAMPLE WEST COAST SEASON:
Note the high completion percentage, low yards per catch, fairly-average run/pass split. Also note that there's not much blitz picking up because of emphasis on short passes. If your QB has low sense rush, it's probably a good idea to increase the frequency there.

Ben E Lou 12-17-2007 06:55 PM

SMASH MOUTH OFFENSE
 
"SMASH MOUTH" OFFENSE

GENERAL PHILOSOPHY

Run-first philosophy. Passing is used to keep the defense honest, taking a few shots down field, but mostly staying conservative..



DESIRED SKILL SETS


QB: Third Down Passing. Two Minute Offense. Short Passing. Medium Passing.

Backs: Running Skills.

WRs: Third Down Catching. Avoid Drops.

TEs: Run Blocking.

OL: Run Blocking..




  • The FB/TE are left in to block a lot in this default, because it's assumed that a team running this will have players at those positions focused on run blocking, and nothing else. If you happen to have a good pass-catcher at either of those positions, by all means, send him out into the pattern more.
  • By the same token, I made the assumption that a team using this would have an all-around stud RB--one who can make catches, too. If your RB isn't much of a pass catcher and you're using this offense, I'd leave him in to pick up the blitz more than prescribed.
SAMPLE SMASH MOUTH SEASON:

600 carries on the season versus 412 passes. Because it's more downfield than the West Coast, the WRs and TE get a higher percentage of the targets, and the RB takes a back seat. His job is to tote the rock.

Ben E Lou 12-17-2007 07:04 PM

RUN AND SHOOT
 
"RUN AND SHOOT" OFFENSE

GENERAL PHILOSOPHY

Pass-first philosophy, heavy on the short stuff, a little medium. Very little downfield passing. Running game is mainly used just to keep 'em off balance. (NOTE: This offense mimics the '90 Oilers and '95 Falcons quite well in testing.)



DESIRED SKILL SETS

QB: Screen, Short, Medium, Accuracy, Timing

Backs: Route Running, Getting Downfield

WRs: Route Running, Getting Downfield

TEs: Route Running, Getting Downfield

OL: Pass Blocking




Not surprisingly, as this is the most outdated philosophy among these, and given FOF's YAC limitation, it was the toughest to model with success in FOF. I did get the run/pass splits to closely resemble the '90 Oilers and '95 Falcons and the offense performs well when matched up against the others.

SAMPLE RUN AND SHOOT SEASON:

High completion percentage, low number of rushes. Harrison and Wayne are lovin' this!

Ben E Lou 12-17-2007 07:10 PM

BALANCED OFFENSE
 
BALANCED OFFENSE

GENERAL PHILOSOPHY

50/50 Run-Pass split on first and 10. Uses all areas of the field. Great for teams with lots of big red bars, as it isn't likely to give familiar messages since it doesn't do much of any one thing.



DESIRED SKILL SETS

As per the name...well-balanced skill sets do best in this.




The main thing to consider is that this one "teeters on the edge" the least of all of these, so it's the one that can be tweaked the most of all these without fear of the familiar messages. I didn't test it as such, but it's safe to assume that this would be the most receptive to using nothing but single-back formations, for example. I'd be very hesitant about doing that with, say, the Run And Shoot, since that one seems to be already pretty near the lower edge of what FOF's engine will allow without a myriad of familiars. Using only five formations in that one, I would think, would tip the scales too heavily toward doing the same thing too often. The all single-back I played with earlier probably used similar run/pass percentages to this one.

SAMPLE BALANCED OFFENSE SEASON:

It does a little of everything, and is effective.

Ben E Lou 12-17-2007 07:21 PM

PLAY ACTION VERTICAL PASSING
 
PLAY ACTION VERTICAL PASSING OFFENSE

GENERAL PHILOSOPHY
Uses the run to set up downfield passing. Someone at FOFC coined the phrase Run-N-Stun to refer to this style of offense. (NOTE: This used to be the single most effective style in FOF, no matter what your players' skill sets, but this was changed in 6.0e and forward. It still can work, but now it's only if you have the right players.)



DESIRED SKILL SETS
QB: Medium, Long, Deep, Third Down, Read Defense
RB: Running Skills
FB: Good blocker
TE: Blocking skills, Third Down Catching, Big-Play Receiving
WRs: Third Down Catching, Big-Play Receiving
OL: Run and pass blocking skills


As mentioned earlier, only those with the right skill sets need apply here. To give a concrete example, I just loaded up a team that I'd drafted for short passing and tried to run this offense: 52.2% completions, 14 TDs, 24 INTs. I then loaded up that same team again and used West Coast: 65.4%, 17TDs, 8 INTs.


SAMPLE PLAY ACTION VERTICAL PASSING SEASON:

15.4 yards per completion, but slightly more running than passing. That sums it up.

Ben E Lou 12-17-2007 07:31 PM

"GREATEST SHOW ON TURF" OFFENSE

GENERAL PHILOSOPHY
A pass-first offense that uses the entire field. The run is used enough to keep the defense off-balance, and no area of the field is neglected with the passing game. (NOTE: The splits and pass distances here have been tested to closely resemble the results from the 2001 Rams' season---with the right players. I wouldn't try this offense without some players with big ol' red bars.)


DESIRED SKILL SETS
QB: big, red bars all over the place
RB: Running Skills + Getting Downfield
FB: Pass-Catching Skills
TE & WRs: big, red bars.
OL: Pass blocking skills.




SAMPLE GREATEST SHOW ON TURF SEASON:

Everybody gets involved in the passing game. Addai didn't have very high route running in this gamestart. In plugging this in with another RB, though, you can definitely get Faulk-like numbers.

NOTE:
I made a mistake here, which is now corrected in the zip file. I left the blitz pickup numbers in from PAVP. The RB and FB should get out into the pattern more in this offense, and the download currently available reflects that. If you downloaded before 5:08AM EST on Tuesday the 18th, you'll want to re-download the zip file. It's a relatively small change, but I could envision it making a difference with a team that has a RB who's great at catching the ball. I didn't update the screen shots, though.


Ben E Lou 12-17-2007 07:39 PM

COMMENTS
 
A few comments...

  • Remember that the adjustments screen on all of these is set with no adjustments, and never going for it on fourth down. You need to either let Rex set this, or do it yourself, or you'll end up running the ball way too much when behind (esp. in SmashMouth and PlayActionVertical), or throwing too much when ahead (esp. in RunAndShoot and GreatestShowOnTurf.)
  • Be especially careful about using Play Action Vertical and Greatest Show On Turf if you don't have the QB/WRs to do so. Both are a recipe for 30 INTs and a 45% completion percentage if you've got the wrong personnel.
  • West Coast is the "safest" option of these six for a young and developing QB, probably moreso than Smash Mouth. Smash Mouth relies on the QB to make third down throws and a bit more downfield passing.
  • Feel free to tweak these, and share your ideas in this thread.

sovereignstar 12-17-2007 08:09 PM

Much thanks for this. Should be a popular thread.

Tasan 12-17-2007 08:52 PM

Thank you thank you thank you I was just looking for something like this. I really wish there was a button to hit to let the coaches just set the defensive game plan (or just the offensive, whatever you like). I really don't like setting all these things for the defense every week, and to me the computer does a pretty good job of it.

Tasan 12-17-2007 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog (Post 1618161)
A few comments...

  • You need to either let Rex set this


Okay I assume Rex is the recommend button? I'm guessing I'm out of the loop on an elitist joke here... ;- )

Subby 12-17-2007 09:07 PM

Really happy to see this coming together - this is something a lot of envisioned with the release of 2k4 and mp - we even had a gameplanning forum if I remember correctly (wasn't CT the mod?)

Anyway - just a great start and I hope lots of multiplayer (and singleplayer) teams will take advantage...

Thanks again, Ben.

Subby 12-17-2007 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tasan (Post 1618243)
Okay I assume Rex is the recommend button? I'm guessing I'm out of the loop on an elitist joke here... ;- )

Yeah that's it :)

Tormaz 12-17-2007 09:45 PM

Great stuff. My offense is really, really similar to your Smash Mouth one. I would say there are very few %'s difference, thats it.

Great read though and thanks for taking the time to do this.

QuikSand 12-17-2007 11:03 PM

An excellent, and sadly overdue, contribution to the community. Shame it has essentially fallen to one guy to continue bearing the standard - but I don't think there's anyone better to do so. Nicely done, and many thanks, Ben.

Antmeister 12-17-2007 11:18 PM

Wow! Very impressed with this. Good job SkyDog!

digamma 12-17-2007 11:23 PM

Great, great stuff. Thanks.

Anthony 12-18-2007 12:03 AM

i'm puckering my lips, and i want you to kiss them.


this is exactly what this game needed. this is probably the most important thread in this entire community. excellent job to all involved.

johnnyshaka 12-18-2007 01:21 AM

SkyDog...great post, as usual. Now, where is your singleback only gameplan? ;)

I'm also anxiously awaiting some defensive gameplans because I've been focusing on that as of late and still can't come up with anything useful to me or the community. Ugh.

daedalus 12-18-2007 01:52 AM

thanks, ben. i heart you.

BradS 12-18-2007 01:54 AM

Amazing. Thank You.

Northwood_DK 12-18-2007 02:08 AM

Wow.

Great job.

Emiliano 12-18-2007 02:55 AM

Awesome stuff.

Thanks!

Ben E Lou 12-18-2007 04:11 AM

Thanks, guys, for the kind words. I actually had a lot of fun doing it, especially fiddling with strategies I myself hadn't really tried in earnest. The "Greatest Show On Turf" was particularly fun to fool with, since I'd never done anything like it in SP or MP. My hope is that this will help with the idea of establishing a philosophy and acquiring players to build around it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka (Post 1618366)
SkyDog...great post, as usual. Now, where is your singleback only gameplan? ;)

For the purposes of this thread, I wanted to leave everything as-is on the formation usage screen. That being said, the all single-back is nothing magical at all. I haven't played with it much, and I've never used it in my SP career or in a MP game, but my impression is if you use something that's pretty balanced overall, and your QB knows four or five of the single-back formations, just use the ones that makes sense when running or passing.

Ben E Lou 12-18-2007 04:16 AM

Yup. I just tried the updated Greatest Show On Turf on a team with a great all-around RB. He had 74 catches for 650 yards on the season, and 7.47 yards per target.

Ben E Lou 12-18-2007 04:36 AM

Quote:

Keep in mind that these are RELATIVE terms. "Very High" running in smash mouth, for example, means that, without any adjustments, you can expect a team using that game plan to run roughly 59% of the time--well above the NFL average and in the range that only a handful of teams in the last decade have run the ball. "Very Low" for the Run and Shoot means that you should expect to run it roughly 36% of the time--right around Oilers/Falcons territory in the seasons mentioned.


One general note about offensive game planning is this: FOF allows us to set game plans well outside the range of reality, but if we do get too far away from reality, we won't succeed. Real-life run/pass split ranges are probably more narrow than most of us would expect. A standard deviation range is roughly 40%-50%, and all but two NFL teams this year are in the 38%-54% range. Minnesota (55.1%) has the highest run percentage and Detroit (34.4%) has the lowest run percentage by a pretty wide margin. Next-lowest is GB at 38.8%. Here are the current numbers for this season, if anyone is interested:

PT CMP ATT YD YPP TD INT RSH YD YPR TD RUN%
Detroit Lions 308 337 524 3855 7.4 18 19 275 1104 4 12 34.4%
Green Bay Packers 394 350 519 4123 7.9 27 13 329 1255 3.8 11 38.8%
New Orleans Saints 331 378 550 3819 6.9 25 15 351 1291 3.7 12 39.0%
San Francisco 49ers 191 251 468 2458 5.2 11 16 304 1268 4.2 8 39.4%
Atlanta Falcons 188 291 486 3007 6.2 12 14 333 1294 3.9 5 40.7%
Chicago Bears 250 283 488 3214 6.6 14 19 335 1066 3.2 6 40.7%
Arizona Cardinals 326 298 498 3559 7.2 26 22 342 1250 3.6 8 40.7%
Cincinnati Bengals 323 339 522 3699 7.1 22 17 359 1324 3.7 8 40.7%
Seattle Seahawks 325 321 514 3626 7 25 10 363 1308 3.6 7 41.4%
Miami Dolphins 235 273 475 2890 6.1 9 16 342 1375 4 13 41.9%
St. Louis Rams 220 298 503 3146 6.2 15 23 365 1362 3.7 5 42.1%
Kansas City Chiefs 196 281 472 2956 6.3 14 19 346 1132 3.3 5 42.3%
Philadelphia Eagles 281 297 501 3397 6.8 20 14 374 1721 4.6 11 42.7%
Baltimore Ravens 242 309 497 2938 5.9 11 14 379 1511 4 9 43.3%
Houston Texans 322 314 475 3564 7.5 21 17 364 1350 3.7 9 43.4%
New England Patriots 523 353 511 4288 8.4 45 7 400 1609 4 14 43.9%
Dallas Cowboys 429 300 462 3868 8.4 35 17 366 1597 4.4 13 44.2%
Cleveland Browns 368 262 469 3418 7.3 26 15 378 1596 4.2 13 44.6%
New York Giants 300 273 496 3014 6.1 19 17 403 1780 4.4 12 44.8%
New York Jets 249 270 454 2917 6.4 13 17 377 1434 3.8 6 45.4%
Denver Broncos 292 286 447 3358 7.5 19 13 383 1737 4.5 10 46.1%
Indianapolis Colts 402 300 470 3669 7.8 28 14 405 1540 3.8 17 46.3%
Carolina Panthers 223 255 454 2585 5.7 16 15 400 1575 3.9 5 46.8%
Washington Redskins 275 274 463 3109 6.7 14 11 429 1634 3.8 12 48.1%
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 292 265 410 2962 7.2 14 6 399 1698 4.3 15 49.3%
San Diego Chargers 359 248 416 2845 6.8 19 16 414 1772 4.3 18 49.9%
Buffalo Bills 222 238 389 2548 6.5 10 11 390 1545 4 7 50.1%
Tennessee Titans 275 252 412 2648 6.4 9 16 468 1884 4 15 53.2%
Oakland Raiders 255 224 389 2540 6.5 15 16 449 1854 4.1 10 53.6%
Pittsburgh Steelers 331 251 391 2911 7.5 29 12 454 1952 4.3 7 53.7%
Jacksonville Jaguars 334 246 405 2940 7.3 20 7 471 2094 4.5 15 53.8%
Minnesota Vikings 305 190 332 2294 6.9 9 9 408 2239 5.5 18 55.1%
9566 9107 14862 102165 6.874 610 467 12155 49151 4.044 336 45.0%

It's pretty clear to me that the engine is based on real-life splits, and therefore that when creating an offensive game plan, one should be very careful about getting outside of real-life splits--especially if your QB knows a low number of formations.

Icy 12-18-2007 04:47 AM

This is probably the most helpfully thread for new players that you have writen about FOF in a looong time, and knowing the usual amount of time you expend on investigating the game and sharing your thoughts in the board, it means a lot.

HUGE thanks for this, it was really needed as starting point.

Now if you or somebody would do the same about defense... At least for me, defense remains to be the biggest mistery in FOF gameplanning, i seem to struggle always against the pass even having what i think is the right personal against it.

Nugget699 12-18-2007 05:50 AM

Great post SD. Now I await the Defense Plans and i'm all set.

Ben E Lou 12-18-2007 07:30 AM

Let's try to keep this discussion on offense. For those interested in discussing defense, check this thread.

Eaglesfan27 12-18-2007 08:12 AM

Excellent job, Ben. This is a wonderful contribution to the community.

Ben E Lou 12-18-2007 08:30 AM

OK. I hope this post serves to remove some potential confusion, rather than create it. :p I didn't post this at first, but I stripped the information out that I'd expect to create the most confusion, and am posting the rest now. I say that because this sample size is fairly small. I ran each game plan five seasons with the same team. Only five seasons should give you a general idea of what to expect over the long haul, but one a game-to-game, even season-to-season basis, there can be significant variation. (To be blunt, I question the mathematical skills of anyone who'd abandon or embrace a philosophy based on less than around a half a season's worth of usage.)

OK, with those caveats in place, these are the splits that each of the game plans produced over five seasons each:


NAME RUN% SHORT MED LONG
West Coast 47.5% 69.8% 21.5% 8.7%
SmashMouth 58.7% 55.4% 31.0% 13.6%
RunAndShoot 35.9% 65.3% 27.2% 7.5%
Balanced 48.2% 50.9% 33.3% 15.8%
PlayActionVertical 52.2% 36.8% 35.6% 27.6%
GreatestShowOnTurf 43.5% 48.5% 31.1% 20.4%

ddrrbb 12-18-2007 08:58 AM

I did some screwing around with a SP team I have as I was curious about the West Coast comment that it is good for developing young QBs. While each tested season was a little different, my young 39/46 QB (with mentor) went up to 57/57 after one test and ended up around 50/50 with unfilled green bars in most other sims.

I haven't tried the other GPs as much, and I haven't pinned down the exact things that contribute to QB development (wins? yards? TDs? completions? etc), but this is good news for teams with young QBs to develop quickly.

I see much addictive testing and playing in my future, thanks Sky.

MalcPow 12-18-2007 08:59 AM

Thanks SD, glad you put the caveat in about the lack of variance in wins as well, I've always found the Colts to be a nice ego boost for my offensive gameplanning prowess during testing. :)

I'll have to mess with these a little and see how they stack up against a few of my personal brews. Great contribution.

MalcPow 12-18-2007 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddrrbb (Post 1618453)
I did some screwing around with a SP team I have as I was curious about the West Coast comment that it is good for developing young QBs. While each tested season was a little different, my young 39/46 QB (with mentor) went up to 57/57 after one test and ended up around 50/50 with unfilled green bars in most other sims.

I haven't tried the other GPs as much, and I haven't pinned down the exact things that contribute to QB development (wins? yards? TDs? completions? etc), but this is good news for teams with young QBs to develop quickly.

I see much addictive testing and playing in my future, thanks Sky.


I think he meant it was good for QBs that are developing (i.e. not very polished passers at the moment) and not that the gameplan actually aids development. By throwing a lot of high percentage passes the young QB with shaky skills isn't forced to make throws that will get him into trouble in that gameplan.

Ben E Lou 12-18-2007 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcPow (Post 1618458)
I think he meant it was good for QBs that are developing (i.e. not very polished passers at the moment) and not that the gameplan actually aids development. By throwing a lot of high percentage passes the young QB with shaky skills isn't forced to make throws that will get him into trouble in that gameplan.

Correct. It's "safe" for a QB like that. While I'm open to the possibility, but I've yet to see compelling evidence that performance helps development.

johnnyshaka 12-18-2007 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog (Post 1618378)
For the purposes of this thread, I wanted to leave everything as-is on the formation usage screen. That being said, the all single-back is nothing magical at all. I haven't played with it much, and I've never used it in my SP career or in a MP game, but my impression is if you use something that's pretty balanced overall, and your QB knows four or five of the single-back formations, just use the ones that makes sense when running or passing.


I was giving you a little bit of a hard time...thought maybe you were holding out on us...LOL!!!

I actually used a gameplan that only used singleback and the 5 WR spread (20% for each formation in every situation) for a preseason game and it wasn't all that bad and there were only two "familiar" instances...both with the 5 WR spread formation. I don't think it's something I'll use during the regular season as my QB is pretty raw at this point but, like you said, tweak it to use appropriate formations to match the scenario seems like a great idea and should work if implemented correctly.

johnnyshaka 12-18-2007 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog (Post 1618468)
Correct. It's "safe" for a QB like that. While I'm open to the possibility, but I've yet to see compelling evidence that performance helps development.


Interesting thought. Now, this is obviously a small sample size, but we're through Week 4 of the pre-season over at the NAFL and I just had my young QB jump 2 points in his current rating after a win and a solid game. The previous two games were losses in which he didn't play particularly well and nor did his ratings increase.

Sure, it could be the cumulative effect of playing in three games but I guess it could also be the positive effect of winning and playing well.

I smell a study coming on...

NoSkillz 12-18-2007 09:45 AM

Absolutely brilliant work here Ben. The amount of work you put into your research is much appreciated and a thread like this will undoubtedly encourage those on the fence to purchase the game.

Jim owes you some sort of Christmas bonus in my opinion! ;)

Wonderful stuff and many thanks.

ddrrbb 12-18-2007 09:59 AM

Did 2 quick 10 season sims with the PA vertical (w/Rex game adjust) and WC (no adjust).

QB 39/46
After season:
Avg. Rating TD/Int Avg.
Vertical 47.8 28.5/15.4

West Coast 51.0 19.1/11.6

While the vert. offense produced some great numbers and more wins on average (probably because of the no adjustment in the West Coast when behind in a game), the West Coast offense led to better QB development on average. This is a small test, but it may have potential. I have to try with a rookie QB who is poor next.

albionmoonlight 12-18-2007 10:00 AM

One of the best things ever on FOFC. This inspires me to play some single player again.

larrymcg421 12-18-2007 10:16 AM

Oh no! Mercury Morris got 440 carries using the Smash Mouth offense. The end is nigh!

Hammer 12-18-2007 10:21 AM

The hard bit is working out how far into the system concept you can go with a low formation QB.

Great job, interesting read.

Ben E Lou 12-18-2007 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer (Post 1618515)
The hard bit is working out how far into the system concept you can go with a low formation QB.

Great job, interesting read.


Good question, and not something I tested for at all, but from experience, I'd say that the more imbalanced the system, especially toward passing, the worse off you'll be. So I'd tend to avoid "Run And Shoot" and "Greatest Show On Turf" with such a QB, and be careful about "Smash Mouth" and "Play Action Vertical." I would think that "Balanced" and "West Coast" would be the least likely to create problems with a low-formation QB.

headtrauma 12-18-2007 10:52 AM

Very nice, SkyDog. Thanks for this.

Chubby 12-18-2007 11:15 AM

I'm getting curious to see if my gameplan has improved with the recent patch or if it's only because my team is loaded (tho my SP are always loaded). I'm getting far better results right now with my modified Play Action Vertical that I've been using for seasons with my Mohawks.

Anthony 12-18-2007 11:22 AM

this thread was very useful in me determing what the hell i can do with my MP team, as I lost my 81 rated overall QB to FA and was left with my 52/63 backup to be my starter this season. low bars in every category, except being in the 90's for accuracy (and before the switch to 2k7 he was rated in the 90's in "avoid INTs" also, but that's now a hidden bar). based on my personell i see which offense i should be running. obviously the "desired skills" isn't written in stone and is mostly SD's take, based on his research i have no reason to believe i should be weighing heavily on his suggestions for which ratings translate best into certain gameplans. this thread basically saved my season.

what was the cohesion ratings for your team, btw? i have low cohesion on my O-line and backfield, so i'm not assuming i can completely replicate the expected results from these gameplans. cohesion plays a higher role than i previously gave it credit for.

larrymcg421 12-18-2007 11:58 AM

I don't have time to do an extensive test right now, but I have a suspicion that a mediocre QB can run the Greatest Show as long as he knows lots of formations.

I just ran it with a veteran QB rated 39/39 (low in everything but timing), but he knows 14 formations. He finished the season with 4371 yards, 35 TD, and 8 INT.

Note: The RB numbers are also awesome. He caught 79 passes for 731 yards, 7.61 Y/Targ

zbuckley 12-18-2007 01:43 PM

Very helpful thread. Nice to see common sense applied to game planning.

larrymcg421 12-18-2007 01:45 PM

Ran the Greatest Show with the 98 Dolphins (15th year declining QB, Only one good WR, Crappy RB's and average TE). Interesting numbers...

Code:

1998 Summary for Delaware Encryptors
 
Year                1998                                     
Record              14-4                                     
Winning Pct.        .777                                     
All-Time            13-3                                     
Winning Pct.        .812                                     
Playoffs            1-1                                     
Playoff Visits      1                                       
Bowl Wins          0                                       
Head Coach          Sam Lucas                               
Record              14-4                                     
Winning Pct.        .777                                     
Off. Coord.        T. Ballard                               
Def. Coord.        E. Clark                                 
 
Delaware Encryptors    Team      Rank 
Rushes per Game        26.9      19         
Rushing Yards          99.8      20         
Yards Per Carry        3.71      24         
Pass Attempts          37.1      7         
Completions            25.4      1         
Completion Pct.        68.5      1         
Passing Yards          320.6    1         
Yards Per Attempt      8.63      1         
Yards Per Catch        12.60    3         
Total Yardage Gained    412.8    1         
3rd Down Conversions    52.2      1         
Points Per Game        30.0      2         
Pass Rush Pct.          22.1      8 (T)     
Pass Defense Pct.      60.8      11         
Turnovers              29        18 (T)     
Turnover Margin        +2        17 (T)     
 
Opponents              Team      Rank 
Rushes per Game        22.8      3         
Rushing Yards          93.5      7         
Yards Per Carry        4.10      21         
Pass Attempts          36.4      26         
Completions            20.6      17         
Completion Pct.        56.6      5         
Passing Yards          221.2    9         
Yards Per Attempt      6.07      4         
Yards Per Catch        10.72    5         
Total Yardage Gained    298.6    2         
3rd Down Conversions    38.6      16         
Points Per Game        18.4      7 (T)     
Pass Rush Pct.          15.6      4         
Pass Defense Pct.      39.0      3         
Turnovers              31        12 (T)     
 
Week  Team  Versus        Oppnt 
1    30    at LWC        14     
2    35    JAX          45     
3    13    at RAL        10     
4    13    DES          17     
5    34    at GRJ        26     
6    34    at CPH        15     
7    26    HRS          10     
8    24    CUR          20     
10    37    CHV          20     
11    40    at SAV        14     
12    38    at STU        13     
13    40    RAL          13     
14    38    at CHV        30     
15    20    LAP          9     
16    27    at HRS        32     
17    31    KAI          7     
$$CS  35    STU          31     
$$CF  28    at MEX        35     
 
Passing                Pos  Att  Comp  Yards Y/Att TD    Int  Rate 
15 D. Marino            QB    594  407  5129  8.63  36    15    104.8 
**Team                  ---  594  407  5129  8.63  36    15    104.8 
$$Opp                  ---  583  330  3539  6.07  18    23    68.4   
 
Rushing                Pos  Att  Yards Y/Att TD    Fum 
Front Office Football 2007
38 B. Parmalee          RB    290  1090  3.76  9    8     
1 K. Abdul-Jabbar      RB    109  442  4.06  2    5     
**Team                  ---  430  1596  3.71  15    24     
$$Opp                  ---  365  1496  4.10  9    19     
 
Receiving              Pos  Targ  Catch Yards Y/Ctc Y/Tar Drop  TD 
85 O. McDuffie          WR    197  129  2080  16.12 10.56 6    15     
10 L. Thomas            WR    96    64    922  14.41 9.60  3    4     
88 Y. Green            WR    69    39    402  10.31 5.83  7    5     
38 B. Parmalee          RB    42    37    232  6.27  5.52  1    1     
84 C. Jordan            WR    49    34    475  13.97 9.69  0    5     
82 T. Drayton          TE    38    30    348  11.60 9.16  1    0     
83 O. Gadsden          WR    34    18    207  11.50 6.09  1    2     
13 F. Wainright        TE    23    18    155  8.61  6.74  1    1     
87 E. Perry            TE    21    17    163  9.59  7.76  2    1     
 
Defense                Pos  Tack  Asst  Sack  Hurr  Ints  Defn  PDPct 
39 B. Marion            S    102  32    0.0  2    6    7    80.2   
95 R. Jones            ILB  101  23    2.5  2    0    0    73.9   
57 O. Brigance          OLB  88    21    2.0  2    1    7    74.7   
26 P. Surtain          CB    62    26    0.0  1    2    6    76.0   
21 T. Buckley          CB    52    15    0.0  0    7    18    86.3   
20 J. Wilson            S    51    19    1.5  0    3    10    81.9   
91 T. Bowens            DT    45    16    6.5  24    0    1    82.3   
78 D. Stubbs            DE    40    18    15.0  16    0    0    81.7   
71 D. Gardnener        DT    37    15    4.0  9    0    0    81.9   
93 J. Taylor            DE    35    18    9.0  17    0    0    80.8   
43 C. Jackson          CB    31    12    0.0  2    3    7    81.2   
35 S. Wooden            S    23    10    0.0  0    1    2    76.0   
92 D. Rodgers          OLB  17    2    0.0  0    0    3    82.9


Ben E Lou 12-18-2007 02:23 PM

Heh. Interesting there. That sounds like a case I hadn't thought much about. I presume McDuffie has high endurance and route running, and he's playing flanker. That looks like a situation where a great WR (probably masked at least somewhat) is sucking up a heavy percentage of the targets (35-40%?) when he's on the field, which is making things go better than we'd expect. What's the passing cohesion?


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