POLL: Would you play in a MP League with no mid-week export?
 

Read: You have to manage your roster-->injuries, trades, inactives/actives with some sort of transparency from gameday to gameday.

Absolutely. The FOFL has the commish available to set your depth charts for "emergency" situtations, but given how Otto's grip has been relaxed tremendously, these really aren't necessary like they used to be. One thing I learned from the One-N-Done is that FOF will sim without making changes way more often than the messages it gives you would indicate. There are numerous scenarios in which the game will tell you that it won't sim, and it actually will sim without incident.

I'm getting close to only playing in leagues that do not have mid-week files. Midweeks are useless with the latest FOF patch IMO.

Good excuse as any to run away from the Browns I guess ;)

Are you able to shed more light on this? Is there precision with this? Does it guarantee signing a guy on the gameday export won't screw things up? I'd be all for this if this were the case.

The everyday historic league is in its 7th season without mid weeks and everything is great. Check it out at http://www.footballcops.com/ . its a no frills league as far as the web site is concerned but there are a bunch of teams available. If an owner ever feels like he needs a mid week he just makes a request and its almost always granted since it hardly ever happens. This league is great becuse we upload every 24 hours and have no mid weeks!

Yeah.

As long as:

1. the depth chart is filled out legally

and

2. after the export, all position groups are filled, the AI won't do jack. It won't put the new guy in the depth chart, and it will give you all kinds of alarming-looking messages, but it won't do jack.

I'll give a specific example: when I traded R.J. Ellard in IHOF in preseason, I submitted an export with only one RB and one FB active, but picked up another RB on the import. For my depth chart, I put the RB as RB1, the FB as FB1, the RB and FB2, and the FB as RB2. I left 45 players active. That's too few RBs and too few backfield members--error messages all over the place, in other words. But because the roster was legal at sim time, everything was just fine. The game used the exact depth chart I entered, making no changes whatsoever.

Beyond that, the P/K dialog is just plain wrong now. If your K is Out, just leave him active, slot the punter as kicker, and no problems. It'll sim in SP despite the message to the contrary, and in MP, it will not make roster changes.

The FOFL doesn't use midweeks, and instead has gone to a "safety net" that can be used only in dire situations, whereby if you can't get legal, you can sign someone in the gameday stage, and the commish will insert him into the depth chart for you. Because of the timing of importing and simming, and with the easier commish access to all teams that was granted in 6.1, this is a slam-dunk, really. Players get signed to contracts immediately, when the commish imports.

Just to focus a little bit further on this.

I think the biggest concern of not using mid-weeks is: If I have my punter as my kicker, as we need a game-winning field goal, aren't I screwed b/c my punter probably has no field goal kicking capabilities?

Here's my answer to that:

#1 - This is an extremely rare scenario. In fact, the only time I can see an injury having an effect on the actual outcome of the game itself is where your kicker is injured, b/c most people do not carry two kickers on there roster.

In just about every other situation, the owner at the least has "a" backup at that position. So, if my starting QB/RB/FB/TE/WR/OL/DL/LB/CB/S as an ACL tear, I most likely would start my backup anyway on the depth chart. Thus, I would likely only need to sign a backup for my backup.

#2 - This leads to the next obvious question: What if my backup (now starting) gets injured in the sim and the new player picked up is not on my depth chart yet? In "most" situations, there is yet another backup-to-the-backup. If you have only two healthy guards on your roster because of an injury to one of your starters at sim-time and one gets injured, the AI itself puts the "next best player" in that spot that would make sense. On the whole, it's likely to have little to no outcome on the sim.

#3 - Even in that "injured kicker" scenario, the MP Commish now has access to all of he depth charts. Thus, if you notified Commish that I have an injured kicker and need to sign another one, it is such a rare occurance that it really shouldn't be too great a burden on that commish.

Other than that potential "scenario" there really is no "need" for a mid-week. It is now apparent that if you have no injuries, and want to sign a guy for the next week, you can have a legal roster with 45 guys and not all roster qualifications filled out on the depth chart.

The option to just totally eliminate P/K injuries would be a good thing. Then again, I can't remember the last time my K/P were hurt in solo play.

This is a tough question because, above everything else, I really enjoy downloading the league file, extracting it, running my mp batch file so I open the correct team, making changes, exporting, browsing to my league website's upload page, logging in securely, uploading my file, and verifying that it uploaded. I mean I REALLY LIKE doing that. It makes it all feel so real.

Real like Cutdown Day.

but if there was an above average FA out there couldnt someone use this as a cheat to get them with no competition for him? Isn't this magnified by the new renegotiation rules?

No. Anyone who wants can make an offer on any FA at any time they want.

I don't play in any leagues like this, but it would be very appealing to me to do so. I would probably drop most of my leagues just for one or two leagues like this.

For what it's worth (to those expressing some irrational exuberance on this idea)... to the best of my knowledge, skipping midweek sims doesn't mean the league just plays a game every day -- it's just a means to take some of the load off of the league administrators.

Not that a game-per-day league is impossible... just not what the main question is about, I don't think.

I agree with this. I had this happen in Shiba and my punter made a 50 yard field goal and went 3 for 4 IIRC. I know it's not very realistic to have your punter kick for two games (the original injury game plus the game where you sign an interim kicker) but it's a decent workaround for such a rare circumstance.

No chance I would play in (or run) a league without midweeks. From my point of view, one instance of this:


...is more of a hassle to me as commish than a season's worth of midweeks.

I had the injured kicker issue with the vNFL House that only has about three midweek sims per season (BTW, there's room in the House league and we're in the middle of the draft so now would be a great time to join), I had an illegal roster (too many active players) and the comissioner seemed modreately frustrated about it :D I thought I did the export right, but he said it kept crashing the sim.

Other than that one instance, I haven't wished I had a midweek export in that league. But it is kind of nice to have that safety net to adjust your roster if things go terribly bad with injuries.

Worth pointing out here is that this is actually an example of the new laissez-faire Otto. The game now bends over backwards *not* to make changes unless it absolutely has to. If anything, it errs toward not making changes when it should--to the point that it will sometimes sim with rosters so illegal as to cause a crash. Obviously, the hope would be perfection, but it's better for this to happen (which is easily fixable by the commish) than for the game to make mass unintended changes like it used to.

Shouldn't the GM be making the signing, then the commish just has to tweak the depth chart a little?

My league will be doing this next season. Too often am I forgetting to do midweeks and it's not very fun having to be at my computer at a certain time twice more than necessary.

I'd also like to add that you don't have to download the midweek files your commish makes unless you made transactions and you want to "build" off of them. I wouldn't be surprised if some guys still weren't aware of this.

{Sheepishly raises hand}

I wasn't aware of this until around 5 1/2 months ago. I was always downloading the midweek file until then.

http://www.gstelmack.com/woof/forum/...0627#post10627

I voted yes, but ideally there are midweeks until the trade deadline. That's only 5 extra sims.

FWIW, here is the FOFL schedule for the upcoming season. 36 total sims - 15 preseason, 21 regular season:

2019 Season 14-Apr

Mon

2019 Begins - Stadium Plan/Staff Hiring, Phase 1

15-Apr

Tue

Staff Hiring, Phases 2-3

16-Apr

Wed

Ticket Pricing/Franchise Tag/Summer League (Draft Class Revealed)

17-Apr

Thu

Round 1 of FA-1 (Renegs Only)

18-Apr

Fri

Round 2 of FA-1

19-Apr

Sat

OFF

20-Apr

Sun

OFF

21-Apr

Mon

Round 3 of FA-1

22-Apr

Tue

Rounds 4-5 of FA-1 (Last chance for Interviews) - Draft Officially begins (Noon EST)

23-Apr

Wed

Rounds 6-7 of FA-1 - Ammy Draft Continues

24-Apr

Thu

Rounds 8-9 of FA-1 - Ammy Draft Continues

25-Apr

Fri

Rounds 10-12 of FA-1 - Ammy Draft Ends

26-Apr

Sat

OFF

27-Apr

Sun

OFF

28-Apr

Mon

Rounds 1-2 of FA-2

29-Apr

Tue

Rounds 3-5 of FA-2

30-Apr

Wed

Training Camp (Weight Training)

1-May

Thu

Weeks 1-5, 2019 Pre-season - INJURIES OFF

2-May

Fri

Cutdown Day (Get to 53)

3-May

Sat

OFF

4-May

Sun

OFF

5-May

Mon

Opening Day of 2019 Regular Season

6-May

Tue

OFF

7-May

Wed

Week 2, 2019 Regular Season

8-May

Thu

OFF

9-May

Fri

Week 3, 2019 Regular Season

10-May

Sat

OFF

11-May

Sun

OFF

12-May

Mon

Week 4, 2019 Regular Season

13-May

Tue

OFF

14-May

Wed

Week 5, 2019 Regular Season (Trade Deadline)

15-May

Thu

OFF

16-May

Fri

Week 6, 2019 Regular Season

17-May

Sat

OFF

18-May

Sun

OFF

19-May

Mon

Week 7, 2019 Regular Season

20-May

Tue

OFF

21-May

Wed

Week 8, 2019 Regular Season

22-May

Thu

OFF

23-May

Fri

Week 9, 2019 Regular Season

24-May

Sat

OFF - Memorial Day Weekend

25-May

Sun

OFF - Memorial Day Weekend

26-May

Mon

OFF - Memorial Day Weekend

27-May

Tue

OFF

28-May

Wed

Week 10, 2019 Regular Season

29-May

Thu

OFF

30-May

Fri

Week 11, 2019 Regular Season

31-May

Sat

OFF

1-Jun

Sun

OFF

2-Jun

Mon

Week 12, 2019 Regular Season

3-Jun

Tue

OFF

4-Jun

Wed

Week 13, 2019 Regular Season

5-Jun

Thu

OFF

6-Jun

Fri

Week 14, 2019 Regular Season

7-Jun

Sat

OFF

8-Jun

Sun

OFF

9-Jun

Mon

Week 15, 2019 Regular Season

10-Jun

Tue

OFF

11-Jun

Wed

Week 16, 2019 Regular Season

12-Jun

Thu

OFF

13-Jun

Fri

Week 17, 2019 Regular Season

14-Jun

Sat

OFF

15-Jun

Sun

OFF

CHAMPIONSHIP WEEK 2019 16-Jun

Mon

Wild Card Round, 2019 Playoffs

17-Jun

Tue

Divisional Round, 2019 Playoffs

18-Jun

Wed

Conference Finals, 2019 Playoffs

19-Jun

Thu

2019 FOFL Bowl - END OF SEASON

My hero.

2 months for a season sounds about right.

The issue with the midweeks is that they can be a lot of work for a commish for what is typically very little payoff. Updating databases, posting transaction logs, heck even the backup - load FOF - import - save FOF - export - upload is enough of a pain. All for maybe once a season where something important might happend; I'd rather take the hit for one manual turn if REALLY necessary that one time than do it all season long.

WOOF kept track of this last season, and I don't think a single midweek was necessary.

I don't get that since it takes 5 minutes...10 tops...to do a mid week file. I'd rather put the burden on me for 20 minutes a week than to put the burden on 32 owners to make sure they do any needed gyrations for each game day sim. Just experiencing one time where an owner would have been better off with having a scheduled midweek file is enough for me to say it's not worth doing away with them.

Either way, you guys keep saying that if an owner needs a mid week, all he has to do is request one...I don't get that either. Wouldn't that require the commish to monitor PM's at a specified time per sim week to see if a mid week is necessary? What's the difference between doing that and just doing a file? I mean, if I'm going to be required to check in at the board to see if there's a mid week request, what's the hassle of always doing file at that specified time anyway? Like I said before, it only takes a few minutes to get one done.

Maybe it's just me...shurg.

Your leagues must be really different than my leagues. *shurg*

You don't have to monitor anything extra. There's never a true midweek stage. It should work like this:

1. Owner realizes he can't get legal without inserting signee into depth chart.
2. Owner submits export for Gameday sim with signings of, say, three potential players at position in question (to make sure that *someone* signs).
3. Owner submits PM to commish saying "if i sign all three, here's the preference order of keeping them. Insert whichever one I keep into depth chart as backup at ____."

All indications are that it's pretty rare that a team can't get legal without a midweek. (According to Subby, we haven't had to do this at all in FOFL this season, and we're through 14 weeks at this point, for example.) I'd rather run the risk of having to do that manual process that adds maybe 5 minutes to a gameday stage that I'm already running anyway (and only maybe a max of 2 or 3 times a year), than have to run 21 or so midweek stages.

Right, the poll's focus was on functionality/mechanics vs scheduling. Although the reomoval of midweeks would open up new scheduling options.

...and for me, checking PM's and having to make sure I interpret instructions correctly is more of a hassle than simply spending five minutes processing a midweek file. That's all I'm saying. Personal preference. I like having the burden of roster/depth chart completeness being put on owners, rather than the commish...I don't want to have to do any roster manipulation for an owner. If I screw up once, I'm going to have to re-sim out of guilt. That's never fun.

dola -

I think my point is really this:


If that said "All indications are that it's impossible that a team can't get legal without a midweek", then I'd lean to the side of no mid week files period. But as long as there's a possibility that an owner may get screwed because of the lack of a mid week files, then I'm all for scheduled mid weeks.

Plus, we already have the same type of system in GEFL...with owners having access to mid week AND game day file uploads at any given time, if no one needs a mid week, they just don't upload anything to that slot...their file goes to the game day slot. So, if there's no uploads in the folder come time to run a mid week, I just don't run one. It's worked fine for us so far.

Yup. This whole discussion is about that, to be sure. Plenty of trade-offs there depending on the individual's bent.

Yeah, I don't know of any way for that to be the case in the current game structure. There are definitely cases where just making the signing wouldn't be enough, necessitating the commish helping him out.

RELATED NOTE: Anyone know what would happen if the punter and kicker both got "Out" injuries in the same game? Would it insert a linebacker there, crash, or what? It seems like in the thousands of FOF seasons that have been run around here, that almost has to have happened to someone...

I don't think anyone is really arguing that this is a convenience for the owners... but rather a lessened burden for the league administrator(s). Again, I can't judge from that perspective, as I have not run a league myself, and don't really know how complex it is to run stages. (Sounds like that may be a variable, too, with some people using automated tools and others still slugging it manually)

As a team owner who depends on the work of others to make my leagues available... I want to listen if they are saying they want a way to lessen their burden and increase their own enjoyment. I don't want to foul things up for well-intentioned team owners, but if there are easy workarounds for the list of potential problems, and my commissioner wants to lessen his administrative load, I'll support that in just about every case.

It is completely a preference thing, I think. Running midweek stage files gets me closer to burnout than anything else I have to do.

Of course I am a whiney vag, so take that for what you will.

Boo!!

Totally love this.

RNFL is switching to no midweeks this season and I think I am going to love it (mainly for the reason that it takes half the sims away, w00t for that!)

Yeah, perhaps killing off midweeks would actually make the Bengals good.

VPI employs this same thing in GEFL as well. I now do it when I play solo.



I WILL MURDER STEVE YOUNG

I was in the same boat while commishing WOOF. Having to be at the computer at the same time six nights per week was nigh near impossible. Remembering to do a few custom instructions for an owner once or twice a season would have been much easier.

I think this is the biggest single point about this issue. In the end, we are all regular people with regular lives... some more than others, LOL... but the people running the leagues are giving their time and effort for MANY people to enjoy. The least any of us owners can do is cut them some slack.

That all being said, I prefer the idea of running interims during the regular season before the trade deadline when trades are made. If no trades at the interim deadline, no interim sim. That still cuts 11+ interims.

I can see the argument for pre trade deadline midweeks, but at least in FOFL there isn't a whole lot of trading during the regular season (I would be surprised if there was ever more than three total trades in weeks 1-5 of a season in the 16 fakes seasons the league has run.)

Slight tangent, I am surprised there are not more leagues with multiple commissioners.

Here's a concrete example from IHOF. I've been carrying only two TEs most of the season. When I got ready to do my export this morning, I had an Out TE, which meant I was down to having only one available. When I went to the depth chart screen, an error message popped up. Here's exactly what I did on the depth chart:



Notice that my one TE is in all spots, and I used the FB as the backup TE just to fill the spot. (Also note that this screen shot is from AFTER the game, meaning the AI made no changes to the way I did it.)

After setting the depth chart, I made the injured TE inactive, giving me 45 active players and 8 inactives, also a no-no. So, for my gameday export, I cut a player, made an offer to a TE, and exported, and the AI used the exact depth chart that I'd submitted, with no changes.

I'm skipping midweeks in the HFL this season (after the trade deadline, we're in week 6 now) and it'll be interesting to see what happens.

Good to see SD.

Just to play devils advocate, what would have happened if someone else had signed the same TE you were bidding on?

Most likely, nothing. It seems to be fine as long as you have every spot in the depth chart filled, and have between 44 and 46 players.


You have someone get hurt though (at TE) and the game may crash.

Mostly likely? See, without something definitive, I find this as something that is hard to support. If the roster was increased another 3-5 players that would be an inactive, or scout team, or something along those lines I would be more comfortable with it.

I know that some of the leagues I play in will go/are going to this, but it's just not something i am convinced is worth it.