Coach fired after his team wins Basketball game 100-0
 

ESPN Coach says team played with honor -ESPN Rise GIRLSBASKETBALL

I've done some searching and can't seem to find the story talked about here - so pardon me if there is some well hidden thread to be found here at FOFC.

So the topic here says it all, a coach of a women's high school basketball team has been fired after his team beat another team 100-0. Everyone on the losing side is outraged, and after a clamor the winning coach is jobless.

Very serious question: is it more "christian" to lay down and basically take a dive for the second half, or to continue playing to the best of your ability?

This stories seem to be more commonplace in this day and age, and it blows my mind. Are we simply afraid to let kids get their ass kicked once in a while and take some lesson from it?

Man, I've been following this on Deadspin and every since its happened, it's been down hill. I think the losing team got to go on Ellen or Oprah or something too. Ridiculous reaction to it.

$10 says that if the final score was 91-0, it'd hardly be talked about. I think the 100 has people noticing (good job, Wilt, look what you did!)

Back when I played high school basketball we won three games in a row by the scorelines of 121-0, 133-2, and 106-4. I don't remember it causing any kind of a problem for our coach, or our school. Granted, I didn't go to a Christian school, but from memory at least one of those teams we beat was a St. Somethingoranother high school.

I think what's more noticeable than the 100 points is the fact that a team failed to put the ball through the hoop a single time during a game.

The losing school, it if had any guts, would use the venue of national TV coverage to come out and say it was a mistake to fire the opposing coach.

It's great to praise your players for fighting it out to the end despite getting hammered. But what lesson are you intending to learn that the winning team should be ashamed of whooping your ass? Is it honest to ask them to play below their ability? Where is the sportsmanship in that?

I ask this in all seriousness, as I think it's very damaging to sport in general in this country to keep seeing stories like this. It's a game - competition at it's most literal. And as my most hated NFL coach once said "you play to win the game." Herm had a point. And to me, when you're up 98-0, you should still be trying to score a basket on each possession. It's what the game is about.

dola,

I'm operating under the assumption that the other team was simply doing their thing, Tim Duncan-like, as i've seen nothing to the contrary in the articles I've read. It doesn't sound like they were hot-dogging, shooting with their eyes closed, or doing anything else on the court that could perhaps be legitimately construed as unsportsmanlike.

I heard a bit more about this on the radio today. Apparently (and this was not in the article) he was having his team play full court press and they were also throwing up 3's throughout the 2nd half. That is borderline bullshit if true. You can have your reserves play hard still, but don't press and maybe slow down the offense a bit and use the opportunity to work on skills like ball handling and passing.

The article mentions learning disabilities, but the radio program said that the school had a lot of kids with moderate or worse mentally handicapped kids too. If that is the case and he was employing a fulll court press that is even worse. Again, you can't tell kids to lay down, but you can throttle it down a bit as a coach.

On the flip side, if a school that caters to mentally handicapped kids and/or kids with severe learning disabilites why would you subject them to this type of humiliation against schools that don't have to overcome these things. Maybe petition down a class or consider playing JV teams since it sounds like these girls have a serious disadvantage as it is.

I am all for competition and High School sports are competitive as they should be and it can get ugly when there is a big talent disparity, but 100-0 in a basketball game is just brutal.

I'd consider it classless if they were fullcourt pressing for the entire 40 minutes, but if they were just playing their usual D and running their usual offense, then I have no issue.

With the big wins I posted above that our team had we'd stop the fullcourt press once we were up by about 20.

dola

OK, if what BYU 14 says is the case, then yeah, the coach is an ass.

That's way over the top, what the hell is Oprah going to do for them? Give them free Magic Johnson hoop skills DVD's? Man, despite my earlier post, I am almost pissed now.

Again, this is what was on the radio today, who knows if it was embellished. I am sure we will be inundated with coverage of this over the next few days since they are apparently going on a talk show. :confused:

http://www.flightbasketball.com/100-...rom-Coach.html


The fired coach's response.

If the coach is telling the truth, and I would hope they can find boxscores and such, then IMO the guy who wrote the article should be the one fired.

And the fact that they only scored 12 points in the fourth quarter should tell you something.

Pretty good response.

Wow, after reading all that I gotta wonder about the people supporting the lsing side. Seems like serious sour grapes turned to ruining a team and a coaches season and carreer.

Sad.

Yeah, with conflicting reports it's tough to say what's happened, but if the coaches response isn't complete BS than it's very dissapointing how this has turned out.

The opposing coach has stated publicly that if anybody taped the game, the truth would come out. The guy had starters in, pressing, shooting three's up 59-0 at the half...up 81-0 and so on and so on.

If the guy had his starters pulled, couldn't shoot threes, no pressing, shoot only after seven passes, and it just happened then I can live with that. To do what that team did though lacks all kinds of sportsmanship -- especially from a Christian school which is where I think most of this comes from. Had these been public schools I don't think you would hear as much about this either.

Ok wait, I think everyone is missing something here...a girls team scored 100 points!!

I never understood why losing by a score like 100-0 was so much more devastating to someone's life than losing 70-0 when the loser was so bad that the winner stopped trying.

I always imagine it like a race. Imagine one runner is way in front. Close to the finish line, he starts to run in slow motion, so the race is a little closer. I know its not a perfect metaphor, but I see it the same way.

I find myself asking that question several times a year, in more than one sport, even in games that don't involve powerhouses or players with additional challenges.

There's one basketball team (well two actually, boys & girls) that are from a school that's traditionally so small that they really have no chance to compete even in the smallest classification in the state. Losing by 40 points to mediocre teams, losing by as many as 80 to good teams even when they're trying to take it easy on them. Short of simply refusing to shoot I'm not sure how anybody can avoid beating these kids very very badly, which leaves me questioning the judgement of the adults who put them in this situation.

I can think of a few football programs in Georgia that are pretty much the same boat and I question the wisdom of creating the situation there as well.

Every state has different rules that would apply but I know here that schools have an option of playing a non-region schedule on a two year basis, essentially allowing them to play down as far as they need to while trying build or rebuild to at least some competitive standard. There's also the option of going to a JV only schedule, although I believe that has some specific rules that govern it. But those options are rarely utilized, but damned if I can really figure out why but adult egos seems to be the most likely reason.

I'll take that analogy a step further. I ran cross country in high school, but not because I was a stud runner - I wasn't. I ran because I wanted to, and because I wanted to get better.

My first year, I wasn't nearly in the same running shape as the other kids I was competing against, and I knew it. My first race, I not only came in DFL, but the leaders of the varsity girls' race, which started 15 minutes after my own, beat me across the finish line.

That was humiliating, especially hearing the comments from folks in the stands. But you know what? I went out and busted my ass in every remaining race I had that season. My goal was to not be the last one across the finish line. More folks I had behind me, the happier I was. I knew I wasn't going to finish first, or even in the top half, but I was by-god not going to let a repeat of my first race happen.

With one exception, the rest of my high school "career," I was successful.

That one exception was at the Mt. SAC Invitational my junior year. That course always killed me, to the point where I just didn't *care* if I was last or not, I just wanted to get to the end, drink some water, and die. In roughly that order. My junior year, I was bringing up the trail in my race, and the leader of the race behind me comes down the final hill on my trail. I pick up the speed thinking, "hot damn, I'm not last?" HE kicks it up a gear. I used to think that was because he thought "Holy shit, I'm NOT in first?" I've since come to believe that he had to know that I wasn't in his race, but wasn't taking any chances. A guy who front-runs, when races are spaced fifteen minutes apart, should generally know whether or not he's got a rabbit in front of him.

At any rate, he hauled ass trying to get across the finish line before me, and I hauled ass trying not to let him beat me. He beat me anyway, but whether he knew or not, I'm glad he pushed me. In sports, at least, I'll take your best shot and if I can't return it, know that I at least took your best shot. I'm okay with that.

But don't patronize me. If you're that much better than me, I don't need your sympathy. It doesn't help you and it damn sure doesn't do me any good.

I would hope the girls on the losing end felt the same way. If that was their best effort and they just got walloped by the other girls' best effort, so what? If that was their best effort and the other girls were taking pity on them, that's got to be doubly humiliating, if they have any pride at all.

Just going by memory here, but I thought I read that the losing school had an enrollment of 20 students (note: school, not team) and many of the kids were learning disabled (some pretty severely). If there is a coach out there that is pressing a team like that and jacking up threes in the second half of a SHUTOUT then eff that guy right in the 5-hole.

If some of those things are not true, then I'm perfectly willing to back way the heck off of it. I wasn't there and I'm not willing to look it up after being up at 2am cleaning various waste products off of the carpet and trying to make myself sleepy again.

And if that's the case then whoever decided to put them into athletic competition with schools (notably not a powerhouse themselves mind you) that can beat them 100-0 ought to not only be fired but quite possibly flogged on the town square.

The kids are not disabled in that way...they have things like severe ADD, dyslexia. They are fine physically.

Its amazing to me that after all this national attention and after the coach has been fired its apparently still being disputed whether the winning team continued to press and shoot 3 pointers in the second half.

According to the losing coach and several other spectators (presumably associated with the losing team) they were very much rubbing it in.

Also not included in what you read was that the losing school is famous for its teaching of developmentally disabled children, many of which were on the losing team.

So, after their team taunted the retarded children they just stomped while celebrating like they won the state title, the administration of the winning team apologized, said that the game and the actions of their team were disgraceful, but did not fire the coach.

The coach was fired when he issued a public statement disagreeing with that view, saying he and his players played honorably.

He was fired (from probably a $2000 a year job) for a public disagreement with his bosses, basically saying their institutional values are wrong. That's going to get you fired from a lot of jobs.

They somehow managed to stop scoring with 4 minutes left once they magically hit 100. Their fans and assistant coaches were cheering them on to hit this highlight. They were in a press and were still bombing 3 pointers until they did.

They put up points at a rate of one every 17 seconds until they hit 100 then magically they dialed it back. Yeah, I think it's clear this wasn't just beating a team this was planned exactly to humiliate them simply because they could.

They had 8 players. If they put in three subs, they have two starters still in, and thus "he was still playing playing his starters." If they scored 59 in the first half, then they only scored 41 in the second half. They obviously pulled back some in the 2nd half.

Again, this story probably comes from the losing side, so use your discretion.

When it became clear that the game was going to get out of hand (up 40-something to 0), he called up the press and pulled his best players. When it became apparent that they had a chance to get to 100, he put the pedal to the metal again, inserting the stars, pressing, jacking 3s.

Much of the complaint also seemed to center on the demeanor of the winners as obnoxiously unsportsmanlike (which the administration of the winning team seemingly ackowledged).

This story has jack shit to do with the losing team. NO ONE on the losing team, it's staff or the school whined about jack shit, asked for a forfeit, nothing. They've been nothing but class during this whole thing so lay off them because you sucked at cross country.

This IS about a school trying to teach life lessons to it's own students that it's not cool to go around humiliating people. It's a christian school. They're trying to teach values not train future WNBA players. There are only 8 girls on it's team too. The mistake they made was easing off and proving they could ease off once they'd gotten what they want which was extremely excessive.

Their school wanted to teach them a lesson by forfeiting the game. Their coach was undermining that goal and he was fired. Period.

I don't see how this is an issue unless you say that humiliating developmentally challenged girls is a right of youth that supersedes the school being able to decide what lessons it wants to teach it's students. This issue has zero to do with basketball and 100% to do with the mission the school sees itself as having. In fact, I haven't read one article condemning the winning girls. It's the coaches that drew all the heat and deservedly so.

They scored zero points in the last 4 minutes and averaged a point every 17 seconds up until that point. Just had to show that your statistics don't really prove what you're contending. They could have slowed down whenever they wanted but they didn't want until they hit 100.

I agree and so did the school since they pulled the team from the league. The girls hadn't won in 4 years and had been totally blown out several times this season. They clearly didn't belong in that league but they had no problem with it until this loss.

One more thing. Just found this interesting.


Again, I don't see where people are getting worked up about this. It's clearly not about the basketball game but about what parents are looking for in the school they send their kids to. I really only see one jerk in this entire scenario. Not the girls, not the school, just one jerk and he no longer is employed.

hxxp://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/012609dnspocovenantnu.2781526.html

I'm glad the guy was fired. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason for this to happen. When they were up 20-30 points, it should have been apparent to everybody that they were going to win easily.

At that point the coach should have turned the game into a learning opportunity for his team. Call off the press, use the whole shot clock, lots of passing, no lay-ups, no 3's, don't press their inbounds throws, etc. Let your players try playing a completely different style of game. If the other team starts catching up...we know you can score points quickly.

I've run into this a few times while coaching youth soccer. It's amazing what skills the kids can uncover when they aren't allowed to play their normal game.

I agree that the winning team shouldn't lay down, but there are better ways to handle the situation. Did his team know the other kids were handicapped? Why not have your kids encourage and compliment the other kids? After all...you ARE the better team and you ARE going to win. Why not let everybody get something out of the experience?

were you there?

Have you seen game tape?


According to the winning coach's statement they stopped pressing 3 minutes in and only took 4 three's the whole game. Plus they only scored 12 fourth quarter points.

dola- I agree there is a certain level of messed up to this story, I'm just not sure the coach deserved to be fired over this. Everyone is saying this is a "Christian " school. Wouldn't the "Christian" thing to do be forgive the coach if they truly felt he did something wrong?

It sounds to me like the coach saw an opportunity to have his team score 100 and took it, and then inevitable euphoria from the winning team upon having made this mark was construed (perhaps rightly) as unsportsmanlike.

The lesson the coach failed to impart, I think, is that there's no real achievement in putting up 100 points on a demonstrably inferior team.

Every news story I wrote commented on how they stopped scoring with 4 minutes to play and they'd hit 100. That my friend, plus the accounts of the parents on both teams, the administrator of the winning team etc, trumps the word of the losing coach. Sorry. Have seen zero outside sources agreeing with what he said and gee, it'd seem to me he'd be a tad bit biased dontcha think??

They did and then he deliberately publicly disagreed with school administration and he was fired. He was not fired for the game but the insubordination. Basketball was a red herring.

My wife had same day surgery last Friday so while I was in the waiting room the story all over espn that morning. My initial thought was this reporter was at the game like a local reporter is at every high school game in my area. With this in mind I believed the report must be true and the coach to be a moron.

So, Mike and Mike are talking about this and while there is some "you shouldn't have to stop playing" opinion thrown out the vast majority is going against the coach. Not because of the score but because of the continuing press and threes being shot. The general impression I got was nobody would be complaining if the 100 came with the team pulling back, taking some time, and certainly not pressing.

The Mike and Mike show was trying to get the coach on to comment but never heard back from him or the school except for a recorded message the school had setup. Talk continued on the subject on First Take, again espn was not able to get any response from the coach of the winning team.

My thought now as I read the coaches statement is why did he wait 'til Monday? If I'm the coach and I know we took off the press in the first quarter I'm all over espn Friday morning denying the report and giving my side of the story. I'm on there asking if the newspaper reporter was even at the game and wanting espn to check that out. If they're going to make this national news I want them to send someone out to talk to people that were at the game to verify what I'm telling them.

Of course it's possible the school told him he couldn't comment publicly or he'd lose his job? That instead they'd take care of it. But then if that's the case and he did as he was told and now pays with his job why not say so in his statement? He's already fired.

I'm not ready to hang the guy out until we know more, I wasn't there. But the fact he waited 'til Monday to comment doesn't do him any favors in my mind. Again if I'm in his shoes accused of doing something I didn't do in a national spotlight I'm defending myself from the first second.

It will be interesting to see what comes of it. If it turns out the reporter got it wrong or embellished the story then I do think he should be fired. If the coach did run up the score I'm not even sure he should be fired. From his players statements he seems to be well liked and could become the best person to show them that his way was a mistake and if he had it to do over it would be different. But I would also understand the school wanting to remove him if it wanted to.

Probably the worse thing is if it's proven the coach is telling the truth you'll never hear much about it in the national media.

The school is firing him to make it look like they are doing everything they can to rectify the situation.

You are just fooling yourself if you think it is because of his response. Like I said, not a very "christian" thing to do.

There's no shot clock in Texas high school basketball, so I don't think there was a shot clock in this private school league.

They did not fire him until he made the statement. You do realize you are arguing with facts?

Their initial response to the situation was NOT to fire him. They gave him a chance to continue coaching, but in a manner consistent with their interpretation of what a Christian manner meant. Clearly, he did not want that.

I don't understand your position at all.

The Christian thing to do is to allow him to continue coaching and teaching his team values inconsistent with those of the administration? How so?

I don't have a problem with the firing. It's a classless move in my book and a high school has every right to determine what kind of influence they want on their kids. They felt that kind of behavior was not what they wanted their children exposed to.

High School basketball should never get to that level. There is usually no shot clock. You simply tell your kids that they must take a minute off the clock before shooting. Maybe sit your team in a 2-3 zone for the rest of the game. You don't have to stop playing, but you don't have to put up 100 points.

You're right. Employers never fire employees who publicly criticize them. They encourage their employees to speak out negatively about their decisions. It's fun.

Sorry I was fooling myself. Clearly that can't be the situation. What was I thinking?

And the girls parents I might add who were part of that decision.

nobody knows what the facts are so how can I argue them?

I refuse to believe he was fired because of his letter, this continued to get A TON of media attention after the initial story and the schools desicion to initialy keep him.

If the losing school had just let it go he would still have his job, letter or not.

I agree with Axxon, I think the firing came when the coach spoke out. If he had apologized whole heartidly, I think he'd still have a job.

I don't really get why it would somehow have been better if his team had passed the ball around more and slowed the game down. If I'm getting beat 70-0, the last thing I want is to have to spend the rest of the game playing monkey-in-the-middle while the other team milks the clock. I'd want the other team to play their regular offense so I could get a few more cracks at breaking the goose-egg.

That said, the winning team should lay off a bit defensively (no full court press for sure, maybe play a little looser defense and avoid fouls etc).

give me a break.

This is a school, not a corporation. Great lesson to teach your kids, fire anyone who disagrees with you, way to teach them it's OK to voice your opinion.

By all accounts the coach was a good guy who taught his players well, it isn't like he is a repeat offender and a trouble maker.

So you are telling me this school has a zero tolerance policy and thats why he was fired and not because of a continued media outcry against what happened, despite people not nowing all the facts?

The coach was the fall guy, plain and simple.

You guys who are saying he was fired for disagreeing with the administration and deserved it need to get a grip, he should be allowed to tell his side of the story.