Is it legal to immediately resell an item for profit?
 

So here's the story --

Our (disabled -- in the communication department) father had a 1995 Chevy Astro Van (white cargo van) that he sold on Friday for $500. The individual that purchased the van now has the van listed on craigslist for $2,000. My boss believes that such a practice is illegal, but I cannot find any information regarding the situation online. I know we have some lawyers out there: is it illegal to knowingly purchase something undervalue and then resell it at a profit?

I don't see why it wouldn't be legal.

I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night but if there's such a prohibition I can't say I've ever heard of such a thing.

I think of an antique dealer friend as an example, she buys something at a good price at auction on Friday night, resells it for 2x the price on Saturday morning at her shop. This really doesn't sound different except for the product & the venue for the sale.

Same thing with a car dealer for that matter, if they had given a $500 trade-in allowance on Friday, they'll have the vehicle on the lot for sale for $1500 on Saturday afternoon after it's vacuumed & washed.

He just has to pay taxes on it.

Not sure why your boss would think that's illegal - pretty much every sale in this country involves at least an attempt to make a profit. You can make a decent living buying things undervalue and then selling them. A lot of people do this with cars and antiques, and all kinds of various flea market niches. A lot people make a living just selling crap on ebay that they found at yard sales.

He was quoting some case where a baseball card was bought at a yard sale and immediately sold for 10x as much. He's claiming you can't go buy a picasso at a yard sale for $10 and then turn around and sell it for a huge profit.

Ultimately, I can't imagine someone paying $2,000 for a 1996 with no ac and 334,000 miles that needs new rotors. (Of course, the listing says 1997 with ac and that it is like new in and out with no mileage listed).

Right now I'm just debating sending a passive aggressive email to the douchebag.

He's full of shit, as even in that case there's nothing being described that resembles illegal. If there was, at least 1/4 of the people who show up with items on Antiques Roadshow would be in jail by now ;)

If the buyer brought in two phony "experts" and paid them to intentionally undervalue the card then there might be a fraud case to pursue but the obligation to determine value is on the seller & there's no obligation on the part of the buyer to look a gift horse in the mouth.

That's just basic capitalism at work. Now, if he sold you a sob story about why he needed a van, cheaply, and that influenced how much you sold it for, it's still not illegal for him to re-sell it, even if he's a douche in that scenario.

The only thing I have ever heard of not being allowed to sell something over "face value" is tickets to events (Sports, concerts, etc). I haven't heard of this being the case for anything else. (I'm sure there are other things, but not that i know of)

There was a semi-famous People's Court episode where a kid sold that Billy Ripken baseball card for pennies on the dollar (of course now, the card is back to being worth pennies). Judge Wapner threw it out not because it wasn't fair, but because minors can't be bound by a contract. There might be some other similar cases out there.

But there's absolutely nothing wrong with buying a Picaso for $10 at a yard sale and then selling it for a huge profit. That's part of the fun of yard sales, looking for that undervalued gem. There's no duty to share your greater understanding of an item's value to a seller. Nothing has an inherent value, it's only worth what two people agree to transact it for.

People do this sort of thing on ebay all the time. Heck, isn't that pretty much what any reseller does- buys for cheap and sells for more?

SI

I wonder if that's the case he was thinking of. He said it was a kid, and he said it was Nolan Ryan -- could have mixed up the players.

And the guy is still a douchebag. :)

What did you mean by your father is disabled? You may have some legal case to get the original sale voided.

He had a stroke two years ago and has aphasia. The guy definitely knew. Despite having aphasi,a my dad can, over an excruciating period of time, get out what he wants to say some of the time. When the guy came to buy the van my dad tried to tell him he had a stroke, and apparently the guy said, "Oh, do you have aphasia?" That obviously made an impression on my dad, because most people wouldn't know WTF aphasia is.

The Spokesman-Review - Google News Archive Search

edit: I remember this vividly as it was a big story in the Chicago area where I grew up.

Unfortunately it's called capitalism. If I can find something cheap and then find a sucker to buy it from me for more then i paid it's completely fair.

Now the question is was your father taken advantage of? There might be some recourse there if someone else has power of attorney (you? another family member?) to make choices like this for him, which I would recommend to do if he's having issues with people taking advantage of him, it will protect him and his assets in the long run.

The first time you buy something for $5 that you know you will sell for $100, you feel bad, but you get over it. I took a guitar out of the garbage of someone on my street once and sold it for $500.

I still feel bad at estate sales, I feel like I'm robbing the dead so, guess I'm not a complete soulless capitalist yet.

Meh. Ultimately it's not worth $2,000 and I will be very surprised if he can get much more than he bought it for -- it's more the principle of the matter than anything else.

Should've gone the socialistic route and got the American people to overpay a couple grand for it.

He doesn't need a new vehicle -- he has one with a couple thousand miles on it (that would not qualify) and can't drive it because of the lack of awareness he now has after the stroke. :)

I don't see how this is anywhere even questionable. So is the problem here supposed to be he is turning around and selling it within the same week? If so where would you boss draw the line and say it's ok to resell for profit. One month? One year?

Hell, I may start buying cars just incase some rich guy had it when he was younger....

Papa John's founder pays $250K for beloved Camaro - Yahoo! News

There might be an issue if he didn't transfer title maybe?

I was surprised to find this was a serious thread.

Well I think the baseball card situation was uniquely different on couple of levels. It sounds as if the card shop worker was specifically quoting an independent listed value of the card and giving that value in cash. Growing up card shops would give you accurate book quotes on cards, and the sale of your cards would be based on the book value. So if you were misquoted, that could be a breach of contract. The contract was signed on the basis of an outright lie.

Did you read the card article? The dispute was because a worker at the shop accidently sold a $1,200 card for $12. The owner wanted the card back, and it went to court from there before they decided to auction the card and give to charity.

Let's say you were selling something and someone bought it. Then the next day they found it for half the price they bought it from you. Would you be willing to refund them the difference? If not, then you have no right to complain here.

Wow, to be honest I skimmed it so I got it backwards. That is all kinds of messed up, as the customer isn't the one who is supposed to be knowledgeable in that situation. Happy ending at least, but still the owner sounds like quite an ass. He should have taken his employee to court, not the kid.

Me too - and it's my father that sold the van.

Sounds to me like your dad sold the van for a little less than it might be worth, now he's trying to sucker someone. Nothing car dealerships don't do on trade ins every day of the year.

Is it remotely possible that supposed douche had a 97 van with A/c and needed cahs so he bought a 86 w/o AC and is selling his 97?

But I flip vehciles fairly frequently. I just sold an older Jeep CJ 7 yesterday for 3500 that I bought off a friend for 500 a month ago.

Was there some type of rule in place, for the Cash for Clunkers deal, that prevented someone from buying a vehicle like this (for a few hundred bucks) and then immediately using it as a trade-in to get $4500. I had wondered about this before, but it could have really been exploited (and probably was).

You had to own the trade-in for a year & a day prior to the deal to qualify.

I think there is a potential claim here that would hinge on proving that this guy took advantage of your father's disability to get the vehicle at a price that was absurdly low. The bluebook value for a 1995 Chevy Astro Cargo Minivan in fair condition is about $1,300. How was the $500 sale price reached? My sense is that if it was negotiated at the point of sale, you might have a glimmer of a chance.

But my law degree is from a cereal box, however, so take the opinion for what little it is worth.

I really just planned to post the story out of frustration when someone brought up the card story -- so I thoguht I would ask. As I said above, I can't imagine this douchebag will get anything near $2,000 for it


#1, the one he bought was a 96, not an 86. #2 the pictures assocaited with the listing are of the van he bought on Friday.

I think the thread has gotten beyond where I intended. The likelihood of me caring enoug to actually take legal action is pretty low. It was really just meant as a rant against the guy doing it. I understand that people buy things and resell them for a profit, I just really feel that he took advantage of someone that couldn't really even do a reasonable job of negotiating the price or even telling the guy what price he wanted for it. I was not there for the negotiations so I don't know exaclty what happened. Quite frankly I don't want to ask my dad exactly what happened because he would get so worked up knowing the guy is relisting it that I would rather him not know.

I believe you have to have owned the vehicle for a certain amount of time before its elligable for trade in.

PS - IMHO the chaps is completely within his rights, my mum used to have an antiques store and it was largely populated by what someone thought was 'junk' and sold for next to nothing at an auction - the fact my mum sold it for 10x - 100x what she paid for it is simply good business sense imho. Now if your dad was mentally disabled in some way it'd be douche baggery of the highest order, but as it appears he isn't and I presume he got what he wanted for the vehicle so no foul from what I can see?

And IIRC you needed to have it insured for that time as well.

LS, ever considered going into your own negotiations with the guy? Making some offers, stalling for a while, then backing out at the last minute? Maybe with multiple accounts?

No, he wanted more than twice what he got and knowing him I presume he got frustrated with trying to negotiate when he can't talk.


I have, but I think the most I will do is a passive aggressive email. :)

that sucks though

Well that's why I mentioned you might want to look into getting power of attorney or whatever it is so this doesn't happen in the future. There are lots of asshole type people looking to take advantage of the elderly and disabled and make them spend away their life savings on fish oil.

Hmm. You could also post his phone number in this thread and let FOFC run with it.

yes. or just hxxp the link to the posting on craigslist...:D

It would totally suck if you just happened to drive by his house and the car wasn't registered/had no plates, and you just so happened to call the city he lived in...

They say not paying that personal property tax can be a bitch.

I'm sure many in our situation can relate - but sadly this is far easier said than done. While he struggles in certain areas (communication, gets confused now and then) - he still has a lot of his faculties together. Hard to get a power of attorney when he refuses to give it.

Yeah I understand and can relate to that.

One additional thought.
It may pay to go look at the vehicle and make sure he has transfered the title to his name.

Often in a vehcile flip the reseller will never title the vehicle.
I.E. he has your dad fill out the seller part but not the buyer part, this saves time (no waiting on a title) and hassle, as every state has a limit on the number of vehciles you can sell in a given year without becoming a dealer. (For example SC is 5, but me, my wife and each of my kids can turn 5, so I can move 20/year...)

This is referred to as an open title and is illegal in most states.
It is alos dangerous to your dad. Whomever buys the van from this an wont know him and he may make outrageous claims, "I'll warrant the vehicle for 10 years." Which could theoretically come back to haunt your dad.

If he bought it that soon and is slling again, Id want to make sure he had a clear title.

Hell Pm me a link I'll give the guy hell for ya......

That sucks in that case - definitely took advantage of fthe situation.

No, not "definitely" ... only presumably at the very most at this point.

+1

I'll never know what happened, and the $500 or so he may get in profit isn't worth any major headaches or effort, as far as I'm concerned. It just annoys me because it's my father and I can picture how it probably went.

Yeah I was thinking this too.