NFL Week 5 Discussion Thread: Randy Moss Traded to the Vikings
 

Whoa...

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/stor...ings-done-deal

As I was saying in the Week 4 thread - don't like this move at all in terms of what it means for this season.

And frankly, Belichek's personel decisions since the departure of Pioli have been...mediocre at best. So another draft pick (which they'll either use to move up a spot or two or trade forward) isn't really anything to get excited about.

This team just got a hell of a lot worse offensively this year. In a year where you need the offense to carry you to make the playoffs.

Guess I can wave the white flag on the Pats season - much like I did the Red Sox. If they do manage to make the playoffs it'll be at best a one-and-done.

WTF?

They gave up on this year? For a 3rd round pick?
We lost one of Tom Brady's finite number of years to a knee injury. Now they just give up on 2010. Who knows if there will be football in 2011.

This team just lost any hope of beating a good NFL team.

Not sure that NE gave up, but they will be a WC at best. I like the move from the stand point that they will use Hernandez and Gronkowski in a lot of two TE sets which should help clear the middle of the field for Welker to continue to operate. A lot will depend on Tate's development as a deep threat however.

Still, let us not forget NE won a SB with Deion Branch as their #1 WR. Granted the entire team was more talented then, and with their current D they will be in shootouts where not having Moss could bite them, but Brady can make any WR better then they are.

With Moss though, he made an amazing WR that much better where as now he'll be making okay players good.

Any team with Tom Brady has a shot. But this offense just got a lot worse. The defense is already very suspect.

I wonder if Moss has been in 'operation shutdown'? My wife said she didn't think he was trying a few times this year. That is the only explanation that makes sense to me.

After the Monday night 0-fer, I figured if he wasn't already in shutdown mode, he was now.

It's the only explanation that makes sense at all. There is no way Beli wants to ship a motivated Moss, even for fair market value. Not a chance. Hell, even Randy as a decoy is worth a lot to the Patriots this year.

Sorry DT, I don't blame this one on Beli. He's making the right move. There is zero doubt Randy is acting up again and Beli is just dumping him before it all starts to come out and before it starts to impact the team. He's doing what needs to be done.

DT, master of overreaction.

Yes, I remember, you gave up on the Sox in April and they did manage to win 89 games and were in contention until the last few weeks. Have you put up the white flag on the Celtics season yet? Hopefully you can hang with the '11 Red Sox until at least December of this year. :)

You know, it's possible to be a fan of a team even if they don't win the championship every year.

You continue to insist on this vague "acting up" theory, what's your best bet regarding what actually happened? Fist fight? The reports I read said they haven't even talked since Sunday.

Since day one, Bellichick was going to cut/trade Moss if he didn't want to be there, or if he starting yapping. He's always cut guys lose at the drop of a hat, he's always erred on the side of "moving on with the guys that are here". I just don't get why you think there must be some amazing locker room drama here. He asked for a trade, and Bellichick doesn't have the stomach for a whole season for that. And everybody's so alarmed by a 3rd round pick - he's 33 in the final year of his contract, he's had 9 catches this year, and you have to give him a fat bonus and a contract extension to get him. That's a big commitment. You're not getting a 1st on top of all that, period, ever, even if there were ZERO past or present character concerns.

I figure the Pat's knew what they were getting when they signed him so no Patriots fan can be unhappy with a draft pick, this was completely expected. (Being a Bengals fan I have already accepted TO will shutdown at some point this season, just hoping for a few more games like last weekend from him)

I think the Pats will end up being just fine. They'll continue to use Tate to stretch the field, he won't be doubled like Moss was and Brady will find him. When you have such a great short route runner in Welker and TEs who present two different types of matchup problems, the offense will remain open.

I was right about the Sox (unfortunately)

I just have a lot of different ways I can spend my time...no sense spending it on something if it's just going to be frustrating/unfulfilling.

I'm still a fan of the teams. I went to more Sox games this year then I have in any of the past few years. There are just a lot of competing priorities for my entertainment time/dollar, and I don't see the sense in spending time/money on something that will be frustrating or ultimately unfulfilling. Doesn't mean I'm not a fan.

Bullshit.

You are Bill Simmons, as you've said before, and I don't mean that as a compliment.

How will they replace those 38.4 yards per game DT? The Pats are DOOMED

Pats now have two firsts, two seconds, two thirds next year. Should be a lot of ammo to play with.

Absolutely am not. Just am highly skeptical of how this move enables them to compete better this year. I don't see any way it makes them better.

Belichek the game-planner is great.

Belichek the personnel-man is mediocre at best. The record doesn't lie.

As a fan of another contender in the AFC, I endorse this trade.

I continue to insist on the acting up theory because there is no other reason to get rid of him. You don't trade superstar players who are giving maximum effort, causing no problems in the locker room and want to be there.

FOR ANY PRICE.

The Pats now have 2 firsts, 2 seconds and 2 thirds in next years draft. Let's say they called up the Steelers and offered them two firsts for Troy Polumalu. What do you think the Steelers would say? They'd hang up the phone. They aren't giving up Troy no matter what and they certainly aren't doing it in the middle of a season when they think they have a chance at a title.

Let's say they called up the Chargers and offered them 2 firsts for Antonio Gates. Again, the phone would be slammed down. I'll say this again, contending teams do not trade pro bowl level players in the middle of the season.

I think the Semour trade was simply too good to pass up. The Pats had played without Seymour for a big part of the previous year. They loved their other defensive lineman and it was before the start of the season. This? The only logical assumption is Randy acting up.

What do I think happened? I posted it in the other thread. I think Randy demanded a trade early. I always thought his comments about being disrespected because he didn't get a contract extension was a first salvo and that it would escalate. I think Randy was moody, pouty and disinterested. I think Beli realized this was going to become a serious problem and is cutting ties before things get truly nasty. I think a lot of this is going to come out over the next few days. (though with how tight Beli keeps the ship, maybe it gets buried)

You turned off the Monday night game at halftime when your team was losing 7-6 and never went back to it. Your "fandom" is seriously questionable. I can't even imagine turning off one of my team's important games. Ever.

Really?

molson,

I said this in the other thread as well, I really think you are misreading me here. I'm not bashing the Patriots organization at all. I'm bashing Moss. He's with a hall of fame QB, a great coach and a team who has a chance to contend. He's in the last year of a deal he signed. He shouldn't be yapping, sulking, or demanding trades.

The Patriots are doing what needs to be done. It's a sign of a truly great organization. They have the balls to cut loose a problem before it gets out of hand. I'm sure Beli would rather have a motivated Moss, but he realizes he's not going to have that and he's getting rid of him now. Most teams hang onto guys too long in these situations. (see Randy's previous teams) The Pats got an amazing run out of him and got tremendous value for him over his 3 or 4 years. Good on them.

I had other stuff to watch. Monday is a busy TV night. I was also in a pretty pissy mood anyways, so I was trying to calm down and be amused (hence comedies on TV).

And I'm pretty sure I don't have to answer to you, or to anybody else actually, regarding my fandom and the extent to which I do or not express it.

Absolutely. Look at the number of picks they've had since Pioli left, and look at how many of them have made the team/are contributing now.

The percentages aren't good. Certainly not as good as the Pioli days.

Tedy Bruschi:

Really?

I'd say so far from this draft, McCourty, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Spikes and Mesko are already solid contributors as rookies.

From last year Chung is going to be a star, Brace struggled last year but has started showing potential, Vollmer is a starter and Tate has been electric in limited time and now taking on a bigger role and even Edelman is a useful player.

That is 10 guys from the last two drafts who contribute. I'd say thats a roaring success.

God, you are getting insufferable. Pioli left in January 2009. There have been two drafts since then, meaning half the players Belichick has drafted since have played FOUR FUCKING GAMES.

From 2009: Chung, Tate, Edelman, Vollmer
rookeis this year: McCourty, Gronkowski, Cunningham, Spikes, Hernandez

Your expert analysis would be better placed by phoning into WEEI.

You're right that you don't. But it also doesn't mean people on here can't call you out on it, especially when 90% of your sports-related posts are gross exaggerations (like the one DeTox just destroyed).

Fine...I stand corrected on the relative success of recent drafts.

Jeezus.

talk about your gross exaggerations...

You don't have to answer to anyone, and it's probably irrational, but some people will always be at least mildly put-off by the "die-hard as long as they're a champion" type-fan. (especially in Boston, where there's no shortage of those people) You would have been annoyed by that person 10 years ago.

Lions have had five guys the past two drafts make impact and we're ready to make a shrine to Martin Mayhew.

Your expectations are way out of control I do believe.

And let's not forget guys like Woodhead coming out of nowhere.

I heard somewhere that half the Pats' TDs this year have been scored by guys who weren't drafted.

Again, Bullshit. You gave up on the team in April, then the Sox recovered and had the best record in the league around July 1 until both our catchers and Pedroia went down and you gave up again. They managed to hang within 3-4 games of the two best teams in the league until they got those players back, then lost Pedroia and Youkilis for the season and you gave up again. Their patchwork squad then managed to claw back into contention to the point where they were a blown Papelbon save from being in contention going into the last series. You were probably one of the people calling into WEEI talking about how it was a bridge year and our offense was never good enough when it finished 2nd in the majors in runs scored and it was our pitching (namely Beckett, Lackey, and everyone in the bullpen other than Bard) that cost us the season.

We all have overreactions, but while the Patriots chances were hurt today, I still think they are likely to make the playoffs - and anything can happen there with the current parity. If you really want to spend that 36 hours the remaining 12 weeks (plus playoffs) watching the Revs or the Bruins for a month before giving up on them, go ahead. Just realize you're giving the rest of us Boston/New England fans a bad name.How does this play out with the (potential) lockout? Do we still draft players, sign them to contracts and then the lockout doesn't occur until near the start of the season? Does the lockout take place close to the Super Bowl and then there is no draft until things are sorted out? Or a draft but no contracts - I thought one of the main points was going to be a draft slotting system - does that go into effect this spring or 2012?They've run 2 TE sets 64% of the time, and Randy Moss has still been on the field for 80% of the offensive snaps. I don't see how 2 TE sets open up the middle of the field - doesn't a legitimate deep threat who draws a safety over the top do that? I love Brandon Tate as a returner and legitimate #2 deep threat (I'm thinking a poor man's Joey Galloway at this point), he doesn't strike me as a player who currently has the ability or commands the respect to draw that safety help.

Whoever posted the graphic in the other thread, this truly does feel like an I'm Keith Hernandez moment from Belichick. Either that or the 18-1 season sent him off his rocker and he only cares about stocking the team for one more run at 19-0 in 2-3 years at the expense of other seasons.

In this thread: Patriots fans turning on each other

Nah, I turned on DT a while ago, just been building up for a while :)

I haven't seen this much sorrow and doom and gloom out of the New England area since Teddy Kennedy died. Let's see the Pats are 3-1, first in the division and just beat up on a division rival...they trade Moss and the season is over?? I really hope Welker doesn't hear this, you guys are really going to hurt his feelings.

I assume if there is a lockout the draft will happen with some form of random lottery like the NHL did where the worst teams have better chances of getting top picks but not a guarantee.

As far as focusing on two TE and making room for Welker, I still feel it absolutely clears out room for Wes. Hernandez is going to play a lot of slot/H-Back with Gronk on the line. Welker is going to run underneath routes anyway, so Hernandez will most likely be used to take away the safety while Gronk will work on an LB.

You can very easily create room for Welker without Moss. It'll just take more creativity. If you spend all your time focusing on Welker/Hernandez/Gronkowski though you're going to be putting your DB's on an island. Now granted the Pats outside WR aren't scary but I wouldn't bet against Brady vs most DB's in man coverage assuming the WR can do enough to make the play.

And how can any Pats fan hate their drafts when you not only get a draft pick but a sex show to go with it?

just curious where does that quote come from, twitter?

Would make sense in a way though. His tirade after game 1 was kind of out of the blue.

FM

Got that direct quote off SoSH. He was on The Herd saying similar things a little bit ago. Troy Brown on EEI said it's a win for both sides as the relationship was over.

As a Broncos fan, I'd love to have your 2009 draft. Ours was Moreno (overrated), Ayers (starting to show signs of life), Smith (a Lion now), McBath (showing signs of life), Quinn (ridiculous pick). . . just a brutal draft.

I'm liking this years a lot more. Tebow (who knows), Thomas (love the kid, he's going to be a stud), then three decent OL and Parrish Cox. Nice.

Just a question guys, since I'm such a blowhard who knows nothing about what was going on, what do you think of Bruschi?

It turns out I agree with you more than I thought, but I just think whatever "acting up" Moss is doing, it wouldn't be enough for him to be traded/cut from any (or at least most) other organization. This is just the Patriots mentality, which Bruschi (and Brown) is of course one of the cheerleaders for. They're just going to get rid of people very, very quickly. I don't think that means necessarily that Moss has reverted to 2005 form.

I think they had 10-6 written all over them before the season and they still do. They're probably the 4th best team in the AFC, which usually means a fairly early playoff exit, but I'd certainly watch any playoff game hoping for the best. (i.e. I'm not throwing up the white flag)

Ugh.

The team is going as far as its defense does, same as before the trade. Just now the defense will have to go a little further for Super Bowl aspirations.

How about from the Vikings perspective - Brett Favre has to be jerking off in his Wrangler jeans.

I'm intrigued now to see what the Pats do with Edelman after this trade. I thought he filled in nicely for Welker when he was out, and be interesting to see what he can do when they are concentrating on Welker now that Moss is gone.