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Originally Posted by Blackadar
You provided 100% justification for it. Your reasoning absolutely leads to that. If you can't see it, go back and read what you wrote. You justified arresting someone - not just pulling them over, but detaining them - because their skin color and their car don't belong in that neighborhood. Where do you think that line of logic takes you? I'm not angry with you nor do I think you're a bigot but that's exactly where you go with your line of reasoning. That's exactly what will happen. If you really don't believe that, then it's incumbent upon you to change your logic or provide enough nuance in your reasoning that this isn't where this ends up.
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No - reread: yes it's one of the reasons why suspicion may have been aroused, and if you don't believe standing out compared to the surroundings(including, but far from limited to only, skin colour) plays no part in how people are perceived I don't know where to start. I never once said it was
the reason to stop, and never even suggested it was a reason to detain - that was because the guy refused to/couldn't explain why he was there, hence not reducing the cop's suspicion.
The rest I take your point, but if you don't answer, you increase the likelihood of the stop being prolonged while further investigation is carried out, which was one of the poster's complaints.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackadar
And everything you just said? From a legal perspective, it's not supposed to matter. None of it. Essentially, your argument boils down to "if you have nothing to hide give the cop his answers". That's not the way the law is written. It's a BS response.
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Supposed to and in actually are two different things. I have no knowledge of being in someone's shoes in a US-inner city and as I said maybe that has some bearing, and is certainly different to my upbringing, but I maintain that a large part of how people react to you is reflective of your attitude to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackadar
Do you understand what those words really mean? Make a misstatement? Stutter? Get confused in a stressful situation? Your words may lead you straight to jail. Every single defense lawyer in this country would say exactly what I'm saying - don't talk to the cops. Don't let them search you. Don't give them any information because they WILL put the worst possible spin on your words if you end up going to court over something. That's their job.
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No it's not - their job is try and to find out the truth in that situation. That is clearly an idealised version of their job, but the job of the police is definitely not to pin anything and everything they can on the first law abiding citizen they can pull over which is how I read what you are saying?
To be frank, there is an aggression in your couple of posts on this which I hadn't noticed generally in your posts, so I can see that you feel strongly about this, but I have to respectfully disagree to the reality in my environment and to the principle in general, although as I've said a number of times I have no experience of any US neighbourhoods anything like Ferguson.